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#1406038 - 03/29/10 06:41 AM Inside my Kawai CA63
AndyT Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/31/09
Posts: 120
Loc: Cambridge, UK
I had someone around to have a look at one of my keys. Whilst the cover was off I took a couple of pictures of the innards:

http://www.pianoworld.com/Uploads/files/IMG_5810.jpg

http://www.pianoworld.com/Uploads/files/IMG_5811.jpg

Cheery bye,

(note - sorry about the large file sizes (~2.7Mb).

Andy T


Edited by AndyT (03/29/10 06:42 AM)

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#1406040 - 03/29/10 06:46 AM Re: Inside my Kawai CA63 [Re: AndyT]
theJourney Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/22/07
Posts: 3946
Loc: Banned
Cool. Nothing like a bit of digital piano porn to spice up the forum.
Did they find out what was wrong with your key?

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#1406046 - 03/29/10 07:28 AM Re: Inside my Kawai CA63 [Re: theJourney]
CSA4EVER Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 03/18/10
Posts: 17
Loc: USA
Holy Cow!!!

I'm due any day now for delivery of my CA-93, don't tell me they haven't worked the bugs out of Kawai's new RM3 action!?!!?!!?!!??!!?!?

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#1406055 - 03/29/10 07:59 AM Re: Inside my Kawai CA63 [Re: CSA4EVER]
AndyT Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/31/09
Posts: 120
Loc: Cambridge, UK
Its a long story.

One of the keys was making a clicking noise, so a blokey came and fixed it. He added some grease to the grey square on the bottom of the clicky key, so it now doesn't click. This is when the pictures were taken. After he left I noticed that the key is now slightly lower than the rest of the keys (it may always have been). Maybe about half the thickness of the pretend ivory. I am yet to get them to come out and fix that.

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#1406061 - 03/29/10 08:15 AM Re: Inside my Kawai CA63 [Re: AndyT]
mucci Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/29/10
Posts: 1070
Loc: Munich, Germany
I had a similar problem with 2 keys. They didn't have the same repetition speed than the other keys. It was due to some grease on the teflon part of both of the affected keys.
_________________________
<~ don't test forever - play and enjoy! ~>

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#1406062 - 03/29/10 08:15 AM Re: Inside my Kawai CA63 [Re: AndyT]
sucroid Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/24/10
Posts: 37
Hmm. Kawai CA63 has key and firmware problems. Roland HP-307 has ringing sound. And I can't stand Yamaha's GH action. I guess I'll have to save up some bucks for an AvantGrand.

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#1406092 - 03/29/10 09:26 AM Re: Inside my Kawai CA63 [Re: sucroid]
Yuri Pavlov Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/08/10
Posts: 211
Loc: Moscow, Russia
Any acoustic piano have difference in key's repetition - it is a normal (but I don't know what difference is a normal).... It is mechanic...
_________________________
DP: Korg Sp-250,Pianoteq 3.x, TruePianos 1.9x;
Grand piano: Blutner, Muhlbach, Yamaha;
Upright: Kalujanka;
English (with some problems)

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#1406102 - 03/29/10 09:46 AM Re: Inside my Kawai CA63 [Re: Yuri Pavlov]
mucci Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/29/10
Posts: 1070
Loc: Munich, Germany
Those problems are normal I guess! Now everything works fine!
_________________________
<~ don't test forever - play and enjoy! ~>

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#1406108 - 03/29/10 09:51 AM Re: Inside my Kawai CA63 [Re: Yuri Pavlov]
sieg66 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/09/08
Posts: 138
Loc: paris
Avantgrand is not perfect too, if you reach the escapment point and then press firmly you won't get anysound, on the contrary of a true piano.

For the level of the key, it's just small paper circles in the central pin that have been moved in my opinion when fixing the key. It's a very simple operation to had a new one and level it.

What I see in your pics is that the grey/black square à the end of the key lever is digged, as I explained sometimes ago. I don't know what you call "clicking", but I noticed that the key can be harder to start to depress because of this.

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#1406133 - 03/29/10 10:32 AM Re: Inside my Kawai CA63 [Re: sieg66]
AndyT Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/31/09
Posts: 120
Loc: Cambridge, UK
Originally Posted By: sieg66

What I see in your pics is that the grey/black square à the end of the key lever is digged, as I explained sometimes ago. I don't know what you call "clicking", but I noticed that the key can be harder to start to depress because of this.


I didn't notice any difference in having to press the key harder. The key was originally making a click noise on the return of the key. That is fixed now. We compared the key to another one that wasn't clicking, and as far we we could tell there wasn't a difference..


Edited by AndyT (03/29/10 10:34 AM)

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#1406146 - 03/29/10 10:45 AM Re: Inside my Kawai CA63 [Re: sieg66]
sucroid Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/24/10
Posts: 37
Originally Posted By: sieg66
Avantgrand is not perfect too, if you reach the escapment point and then press firmly you won't get anysound, on the contrary of a true piano.


I'm a bit confused. Are you saying that it can't do what the Roland PHA III can?

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#1406157 - 03/29/10 11:03 AM Re: Inside my Kawai CA63 [Re: mucci]
TADutchman Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/26/10
Posts: 760
Loc: Apeldoorn, The Netherlands
Originally Posted By: kawaian
Those problems are normal I guess! Now everything works fine!


Good to hear that Kawai service is doing a great job, also in this respect. Makes me feel relaxed, having ordered a CA93 smirk
_________________________
K A W A I ..... R O L A N D ......... E - M U
C A - 9 3 ......... A X - 7 ...... X B O A R D - 4 9

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#1406190 - 03/29/10 11:48 AM Re: Inside my Kawai CA63 [Re: TADutchman]
theJourney Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/22/07
Posts: 3946
Loc: Banned
Welcome to pianoworld, Arjan!

Where did you order your CA93? Did you order it after having played one or sight unseen?
Please update the prices paid thread on this forum.

If you live in Holland you might not get the same kind of responsive service in case of problems as in England or Germany since Holland is dependent on the German distributor. Units may have to be returned to Germany for service leaving you without an instrument for a while.

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#1406192 - 03/29/10 11:48 AM Re: Inside my Kawai CA63 [Re: sucroid]
sieg66 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/09/08
Posts: 138
Loc: paris
Originally Posted By: polygon
I'm a bit confused. Are you saying that it can't do what the Roland PHA III can?

No it can't, I have tested on N2 and was surprised. I have tested PHA 3 and it can effectively do it.

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#1406203 - 03/29/10 11:59 AM Re: Inside my Kawai CA63 [Re: sieg66]
sucroid Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/24/10
Posts: 37
Originally Posted By: sieg66
Originally Posted By: polygon
I'm a bit confused. Are you saying that it can't do what the Roland PHA III can?

No it can't, I have tested on N2 and was surprised. I have tested PHA 3 and it can effectively do it.


That's extremely disappointing for a piano that costs over $10K. I hope Roland puts PHA III on the rest of their DPs in time for the next NAMM show.

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#1406219 - 03/29/10 12:11 PM Re: Inside my Kawai CA63 [Re: TADutchman]
CSA4EVER Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 03/18/10
Posts: 17
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: Arjan
Originally Posted By: kawaian
Those problems are normal I guess! Now everything works fine!


Good to hear that Kawai service is doing a great job, also in this respect. Makes me feel relaxed, having ordered a CA93 smirk



Hope you enjoy your purchase with NO MORE PROBLEMS!!!!


Edited by CSA4EVER (03/29/10 12:21 PM)

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#1406220 - 03/29/10 12:14 PM Re: Inside my Kawai CA63 [Re: CSA4EVER]
theJourney Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/22/07
Posts: 3946
Loc: Banned
Yeah. It is a tradition to welcome newbies on most of the forums on pianoworld, although the digital forum is the least congenial in this respect because the unofficial hostess doesn't post here much, so the rest of us have to take up the slack. Sorry we missed you before.

Welcome to pianoworld, CSA4EVER!

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#1406232 - 03/29/10 12:22 PM Re: Inside my Kawai CA63 [Re: theJourney]
CSA4EVER Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 03/18/10
Posts: 17
Loc: USA
Thanks theJourney,


hehehehe I knew you would be reading!!!!! You are too kind!

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#1406239 - 03/29/10 12:30 PM Re: Inside my Kawai CA63 [Re: CSA4EVER]
CSA4EVER Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 03/18/10
Posts: 17
Loc: USA
My Best Friend has a Kawai CP-170 and had the "CLICKING" problem with the keys he strikes most. Had a Kawai Tech come out and perform what I expect to be the same service as AndyT although the action on the CP-170 is AWA Pro I think. However, this occurred after having played for a few hours a day for about 5 years. If my CA-93 is to have the same "CLICKING" problem I sure hope it's 5 or more years down the road. For anyone who hasn't experienced this with their DP...It can be EXTREMELY annoying as I heard this on my friends' CP-170 before he had it fixed! Keeping my fingers crossed on the durability of the RM3 Action!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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#1406265 - 03/29/10 12:50 PM Re: Inside my Kawai CA63 [Re: CSA4EVER]
StevieG Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 03/08/10
Posts: 3
Loc: Scotland
While we're on the subject of newbies...

I just got my Kawai CA63 a few days ago, and so far haven't had any problems - thankfully! It's my first DP, and I have to say it's a revelation - I'm so happy with it. I'm used to accoustic uprights but wanted to play at night, and the CA63 does the job nicely.

Most new uprights need a bit of work on key return, regulation so I'm not surprised the CA63's wooden keys might need some too - I certainly think it's worth the effort.

Thanks for the pics inside, Andy - hope all your issues are resolved.

Cheers

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#1406289 - 03/29/10 01:20 PM Re: Inside my Kawai CA63 [Re: StevieG]
theJourney Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/22/07
Posts: 3946
Loc: Banned
Awright then.

Welcome to pianoworld, StevieG!

And, a big Thank You for updating the prices paid thread, too.

If you or others considered the Yamaha or Roland or Casio before choosing to buy what is now becoming the very popular choice of the Kawai CA63, it would be great if you could share your experiences here:

http://www.pianoworld.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/1363086/The

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#1406395 - 03/29/10 03:18 PM Re: Inside my Kawai CA63 [Re: theJourney]
TADutchman Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/26/10
Posts: 760
Loc: Apeldoorn, The Netherlands
Originally Posted By: theJourney
Welcome to pianoworld, Arjan!

Where did you order your CA93? Did you order it after having played one or sight unseen?
Please update the prices paid thread on this forum.


Thanks a lot!

From Apeldoorn, it is only a 20 minute drive to Van Oldeniel in Deventer. Over there I went back and forth between the CA111 and the CA63, enthusiastically concluding that the CA93 seems to combine the best of both worlds. The combination of action and sound is just great on the CA63 up to moderate volumes! For higher volumes and for getting a real experience, I definitely prefer the soundboard system of the CA93/CA111. (by the way, I know audio DSP very well and have played most software piano's before, but nothing comes close, except for the avantime maybe)

Actually, based on the technical specifications (or should I say marketing material), I originally wanted to buy a Roland HP 307, but I was very disappointed after testdriving it for about one and a half hour. The speaker system is not balanced properly; it does have a heavy bass, but the higher frequencies sound extremely harsh and digital (yes, I've read topics on this forum about this). After going through all the settings myself, trying to get it right, I asked for the guy at Oostendorp Wezep to assist, but the result was still quite unsatisfactory to my ears. The samples are way too clean to be realistic. For reference, I then tried several Yamaha DP's including the CLP 380, but in the end I only found the CVP 409 just acceptable for quality (not for price, way too expensive).


Edited by Arjan (03/29/10 03:50 PM)
_________________________
K A W A I ..... R O L A N D ......... E - M U
C A - 9 3 ......... A X - 7 ...... X B O A R D - 4 9

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#1406467 - 03/29/10 04:52 PM Re: Inside my Kawai CA63 [Re: TADutchman]
Nachtschatten Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/01/08
Posts: 27
Loc: Utrecht, The Netherlands
Hi Arjan,

slightly OT, sorry: I saw you were at the Oostendorp shop in Wezep. Any chance to play + test their 'Digital Classic' line? I found their sound with speakers really good (even with the inferior DP's they put into them), see my dedicated thread (now quite buried as not updated for some time). Over headphones it's a different story. I ended up ordering a custom-made solution with the Roland RD-700GX incl. the SuperNatural piano upgrade. I'll also update my other thread shortly + provide some insights once I have received it. Only negative was the price tag... Unfortunately I haven't been able to test Kawai longer.
Cheers
_________________________
Just ordered an RD-700GX (SN upgrade) within an upright cabinet + nice speakers, looking very much forward to receiving + playing it!

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#1406835 - 03/30/10 02:58 AM Re: Inside my Kawai CA63 [Re: Nachtschatten]
TADutchman Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/26/10
Posts: 760
Loc: Apeldoorn, The Netherlands
Hi Nachtschatten,

Good question :-)
Yes, they were friendly enough to let me try their Digital Classic line too. They look nice, but I was put-off by the mediocre plastic keyboard and the sound generation technology, taken from 'old' Yamaha or Roland stuff. They deliver two options for the speaker system, including a 6-speaker set-up (if I remember correctly). The most expensive speaker option sounds quite good, but not as refined as the Kawai Soundboard + 6-speaker system (as I experienced later on). I told Oostendorp that the Digital Classic line would be interesting for me only when they could build in a better (read: wooden) keyboard and a PC for running a software piano. Although they said that in principle this would be possible and wanted to inform me about better keyboard options after doing some research, I never got any response (at least so far)...
_________________________
K A W A I ..... R O L A N D ......... E - M U
C A - 9 3 ......... A X - 7 ...... X B O A R D - 4 9

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#1406856 - 03/30/10 04:16 AM Re: Inside my Kawai CA63 [Re: TADutchman]
theJourney Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/22/07
Posts: 3946
Loc: Banned
Did you actually compare the CA111 and the CA93 side by side?

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#1406869 - 03/30/10 04:59 AM Re: Inside my Kawai CA63 [Re: theJourney]
TADutchman Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/26/10
Posts: 760
Loc: Apeldoorn, The Netherlands
Don't need to: Given the bigger feature-set of the CA93, the substantial improvements in sample-quality, keyboard feel & action (and slight improvements to the speaker system) that would be a terrible experience for the CA111 sleep

I'm suspecting that the CA111 will not be listed in the 2011 Kawai catalogue anymore, but I don't work at Kawai (yet) wink


Edited by Arjan (03/30/10 05:21 AM)
_________________________
K A W A I ..... R O L A N D ......... E - M U
C A - 9 3 ......... A X - 7 ...... X B O A R D - 4 9

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#1406874 - 03/30/10 05:09 AM Re: Inside my Kawai CA63 [Re: TADutchman]
theJourney Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/22/07
Posts: 3946
Loc: Banned
The question I have is if there really is a noticeable difference between the CA63 and the CA93. The stores I have enquired by telephone do not / will not stock the CA93 and were even trying to talk me out of it calling it "a bad value" which I found kind of strange for a store trying to maximize sales... They indicated they would only special order it for people but would not provide auditioning in store.

I doubt that I would want to buy the CA63 since they apparently have dumbed-down the brand new RM3 action to not include escapement (which is quickly becoming a market standard for top of the line cabinet digital pianos) and which I want since I use the dp to practice and study for playing on a grand. Since I play 80% of the time with headphones, I can't see myself spending an extra 1000 euros on the combination of escapement and a so-called soundboard speaker system that in my case would be idle most of the time...

Really looking forward to your feedback after you have played it and owned it a while. So far, the owners of the CA63 are quite happy.

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#1406880 - 03/30/10 05:26 AM Re: Inside my Kawai CA63 [Re: theJourney]
AndyT Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/31/09
Posts: 120
Loc: Cambridge, UK
Originally Posted By: theJourney
So far, the owners of the CA63 are quite happy.


Indeed I am smile. Personally, I have only ever messed around on uprights and do not like the escapement feel. I am glad that the CA63 does not have escapement.

I have played on a CA111 and it may have been that it wasn't set up correctly, but I found that the speaker placement was quite poor. I didn't feel that the sound was directed towards the player. When I had a go on a CA93, I found that the it did not have this problem.

Andy T


Edited by AndyT (03/30/10 05:28 AM)
Edit Reason: added CA111 comment

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#1406882 - 03/30/10 05:30 AM Re: Inside my Kawai CA63 [Re: theJourney]
TADutchman Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/26/10
Posts: 760
Loc: Apeldoorn, The Netherlands
Oh, I see. Actually, when I visited Van Oldeniel in Deventer, he was quite willing to order a CA93 (I could select the cabinet finish for a demo model CA93) if I was serious about either buying a CA63 or CA93 or CA111...
_________________________
K A W A I ..... R O L A N D ......... E - M U
C A - 9 3 ......... A X - 7 ...... X B O A R D - 4 9

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#1406886 - 03/30/10 05:45 AM Re: Inside my Kawai CA63 [Re: sieg66]
hpeterh Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/26/10
Posts: 824
Loc: Germany
Originally Posted By: sieg66

For the level of the key, it's just small paper circles in the central pin that have been moved in my opinion when fixing the key. It's a very simple operation to had a new one and level it.


Yes. Say, the adjustment error is about 0,5mm that might be half the thickness of the white keytops, then a 0,25mm thick paper washer would be necessary for compensation.

Originally Posted By: sieg66

What I see in your pics is that the grey/black square à the end of the key lever is digged, as I explained sometimes ago. I don't know what you call "clicking", but I noticed that the key can be harder to start to depress because of this.


This is normal. All keys have it. It is not digged, but impressed. The grey square is a smooth pillow, covered with a thin layer of teflon.

I do such stuff myself. Dont need to call a technician for this...
It is rather simple.

Peter
_________________________
1929 Galaxy Blüthner Baby Grand
acer aspire m3300 AMD Phenom II X6


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