Hi all!

I am a 27 year old fellow who wants to learn the piano and I could use some advice on purchasing a digital piano.

First let me say that I plan on teaching myself (inadvisable though it may be). I am a self-taught guitar player of 17 years and am ready for a new challenge.

I have never done more than fool around on the piano. I know the notes on the keyboard and I know a couple of chords - that's about it. I am more interested in Billy Joel songs than Bach or Chopin. Though I would like to learn some blues and maybe some jazz standards eventually.

I have no basis for comparison as far as keyboard acton goes so I am not sure how important that should be to me. I don't mind some resistnce - I am coming from a Martin steel-string dreadnought after all. I am used to an instrument that fights back a little

Do I need 88 keys or would 76 be ok to start with? What kind of action should I be going for?

To be honest, even if I play piano the rest of my life I will be surpised if I ever own an acoustic piano. Does that make any difference in what I purchase now?

Welcome to the forum!

I was in a similar situation to you when I first started looking at dps. I come from an accordion playing background.

I would go to a shop for about an hour and have a play on some dps and also some real pianos. If you feel conscientous about bashing around on a keyboard, take a pair of headphones with you. The good thing about wearing headphones too, is that you tend not to be bothered by sales assistant types.

You will soon find things that you like and dislike just from messing around. For example, do you want a dp that looks like a piano, or just a keyboard and some pedals? You will find that you like the sound of different dps over others, or you may find that you dislike the feel or action.

I took about 6 months to eventually choose a dp. I am really happy with my Kawai CA63. I went from really wanting a Yamaha clp 340, to fancying the Roland hp207, to maybe the hp 203, to the Kawai CA18 and then finally deciding on the CA63. I found that the CA63 was a composite of all the things that I liked about the dps I had played on over the 6 months with none of the things that I disliked.

All the best,

Andy T

Very soon after starting, within half a year you will want a weighted hammer action 88 keys keyboard. At first you learn where the notes are but quickly you will care about dynamics and then you will need the weighted keys.

For a beginner you want the best key action you can afford. You must know about guitars. You knw that a beginner will find a guitar with well setup action easier to play. Same with piano.

But ANY decent weighted key piano is good enough for your purposes. I suggest buying at the mid to low range and then figuring you will upgrade in a few years. he $500 Casio PX130 would work. I think the the $1K Yamaha P155 better and got that. But I liked the $2,500 Roland RD700GX more.

Go to your local music store, Sam Ash or GC, bring head phones and try everything without looking at the price tages. Take notes and come back here and say what you like and don't like.

Marlowe,
I'm also a guitar player of over 45 years, who started playing piano about 16 months ago. I bought a Roland Juno-G to start out with, because for $1000 it carried quite a bit of punch. It has the synth action, and I still wasn't sure exactly what type of "keyboards" I wanted to focus on. I eventually realized I wanted to concentrate on piano, and just use the Juno-G for studio sounds,ect. Chris is absolutely right about the weighted 88 key keyboard. It took me less that 6 months of playing the G, and learning from members of this forum; that "I" needed the weighted 88. I bought a Roland RD700gx, and I'm so glad I did. Take the needed time to to make the right purchase for you, and your style. Every time you sit down with the keyboard; you will be glad you did. I only wish I could afford to own several other pro level pianos/keyboards. There are some nice ones out there.
John Sr.

Well I took the advice you all so graciously offered me and went to a local music store to bang on some keys.

And bang is what I did... the only 3 chords I know over, and over, and over. Fortunately I had my nice Sony headphones so I didn't embarrass myself too badly. I worked up the stones to admit to the clerk that I was a rank beginner and he played almost every digital piano and keyboard in the store for me - out of the internal speakers and through an external monitor/amp/PA thingy too. Fortunately it wasn't a GC so there was no techno blaring overhead.

The conclusion I came to is that I really like the yamaha sound. Now if I could only afford it... I really liked the P-85. I liked the feel of the Privias I tried but wasn't so hot on the tone. I was totally unimpressed with the CDP-100. They also had a couple of Korgs that were pretty cool - an SP-250 I think it was.

Unfortunately, the P-85 is well over my budget for the foreseeable future. I have lurked on these boards for long enough to know what you guys (and gals) will say about this but I thought the DGX-230 they had sounded sweet - it may look a little toy-ish but blindfolded... I liked the sound of the NP-30 as well.

As far as feel goes, I don't know what the heck I'm doing. I don't know what it's SUPPOSED to feel like. I could tell the difference between the synth machines and the hammer weighted ones. But I noticed very little difference between the full weighted ones and the semi-weighted ones. I assume that is either a function of my inexperience or the fact that I have strong fingers from wearing out lots of medium guage steel strings on my Martin D-35.... Beats me!

Any thoughts, wisdom, etc.?

I take it the shop didn't have any acoustics then?

I have found that is better to have weighter keys rather than not, since you control the volume by how hard you hit the keys (I think the sound can change too), So I found I could get a better range of sound from weightier keys than lighter keys.

Andy

To feel the difference between key actions, banging chords might not be the way to go . Those sophisticated graded hammers start to really shine as soon as you want to play a melody really soft (pianissimo)- even if it is only for the sake of making the banging chords afterwards more impressive! :-D

Good keys can accept a wide range of force and translate that into a wide range of sound. It is the part about "wide range" that makes a good keyboard expressive. The cheap synth action keys go from full soft to full loud with little effort.

Well I didn't literally bang on the keys. That was my poor attempt at a little self-deprecating humor. I did my best to mix up the dynamics a bit like I would when trying a new guitar.

I didn't like the synth action keys at all really. I liked the semi-weighted and hammer action keys though.

The problem with Yamaha is there seems to be kind of a gap in the line up price-wise. There doesn't seem to be much between the 235/np30 and the p-85.

The piano sound in the P-85 ($600) and NP-30 ($300) are likely the same. If you can stand the NP-30 keys then I'd say go with that. With the introduction of the new and almost identical P-95 the P-85 may drop in price - if you can find it for $500 I'd recommend that instead.

But since your budget is so limited you might instead want to find a used hammer action controller and MIDI into a PC - install the free Pianoteq trial and see what you think.

Your being used to the rich organic and nuanced sound of a guitar may have spoiled you to the lame sounds in the vast majority of DPs.

The nice thing about the NP30 is that it is affordable, very portable, light weight and even running on batteries, has a halfway decent Yamaha sound that you like and although it may not last you as your last board for the rest of your life it could get you started now because, well, you are interested now. If you take to it, you can always get a better proper 88 key weighted keyboard later and keep your NP30 as something you can move around wherever you want.

There are not a lot of strictly self-taught pianists out there. Although this may be contrary to the success you have had with guitar, you might want to consider taking some lessons later too, perhaps when you upgrade to a better dp. You can hang out in the Adult Beginner's Forum here to get an idea of why this is, but suffice it to say even playing Billy Joel or Jazz Standards there are certain movements that work and others that work against you. It is easier to build a few good fundamental habits than to go back and try to break them, IMO.

With a "less than $500" budget. I'd recommend finding a used DP. they make nice hammer action controllers but also retain the option to make piano-like sounds. You should be able to find something for $200.

Pianoteq is OK but the demo is crippled so you can't use it for anything but evaluation and if you decide you like it it is for your budget expensive. NI (Native Instruments) has some under $80 virtual pianos and their free demo is not crippled and fully playable. You can have a nice playable computer based system for under $300 assuming you already have a computer and good enough speakers.

The high end gear really is better. But I notice the price doubles for each increment of quality. A $3,000 Dp is not nearly 10X better than a $300 budget system.

I am seriously considering doing exactly that (buying the NP-30 that is) and learn a bit until I can afford an upgrade. Does the NP-30 use the same piano sample as the DGX/YPG series?

I probably will take a month or two of lessons - if only to get my posture/hand positioning fairly correct.

I wouldn't be opposed to buying a used DP. I would be a little worried about shipping though.

Someone mentioned being spoiled by the acoustic guitar sonically. Actually I am finding the DP sound to be a refreshing change - it feels like a very clean sound. Perhaps I will want more overtones later, we'll see I guess. In the acoustic guitar world more overtones are not always a good thing. It depends on the style of music you are playing.

I would also recommend looking at a used DP. You can find some good ones on Craigslist for under $500.

The NP-30 doesn't have weighted keys so once you become better at piano, you're going to want the weighted action to build finger strength.

Have you also considered the Casio PX130? When I was shopping around, you can get these for around $469 on Amazon.com and it has free shipping. I've also read about people getting this for $400. That only put it around $100 more than the NP-30. The keyboard action is much better than the NP-30.

Unfortunately, the craigs list in my area doesn't have much to offer (or even areas with a couple of hours drive). I will keep my eyes on it though.

I tried the PX130 (and the clerk played it for me too). The tone was ok... The action is probably fairly realistic from what I've gathered here. I have been hunting around and cannot find one for less than $499.00.

Edit - Just found it for less. Maybe the budget will stretch that far.

Yes, self-taught guitar is one thing, self-taught piano is quite another. You are going to drive yourself and some poor teacher crazy someday if you don't get some early formal instruction.

Pop/jazz stuff is often more difficult to play than classical stuff.

Try not to let your playing ability get too far ahead of your sight-reading ability.

Please entertain a contrary opinion: You don't need lessons now and you won't benefit much from them, in any case. At first you'll be going *slowly*. That'll limit what you can usefully get from formal lessons. Self-instruction is much more viable than it used to be. Alfred's Adult All-In-One course, Level 1, Book/CD package is a great way to start. Early lessons include info about posture and hand position.

Frankly, at first the most important thing to learn is whether you really want to play the piano. That'll involve persisting thru the inevitable difficulties and frustrations. Alfred's will let you go thru this process at your own pace;-)

I've taught at every level from Head Start up thru being a T.A. for two years in the international relations dept at SFSU and have also written educational material and done some technical writing - which I'm telling you, not to bore you with the details of my personal life, but just by way of emphasizing that I can recognize good pedagogy. That's why I used Alfred's.

When buying used, you're substituting time for money. Patience and persistence.

After a while, "clean" may become "sterile." No need to worry about excessive overtones. DP's - which I play almost exclusively - never sound as complex as the real thing;-)

Update: An impending birthday (mine) seems to be expanding my budget!

I can now spend up to $500. Yamaha doesn't seem to offer much of anything at this price point. Am I missing something here?

I also really liked the Korg SP-250. I can't afford that but the SP-170 is in the ballpark. Would it be using the same piano samples?

Also, I was given the Alfred's Adult All-in-one course level 1 and 2 for my birthday. I didn't even ask for it...