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#1397804 - 03/17/10 01:21 PM Re: Fantaisie Impromptu Study Group [Re: ab-ster]
Hedgeman26 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/03/09
Posts: 72
Loc: Houston, TX
Of course, anytime...I have no doubt you will be rattling it out "cold" soon enough. And nice to see you are a fellow Kapustin fan! What a tremendous composer...listen to him almost every morning on the way to work. Tremendously difficult stuff, but definitely worth the effort. I am making very, very slow progress on some of his works but having a blast.

Cheers,

David
_________________________
Currently learning/playing select pieces from Chopin, Liszt, Beethoven, and Kapustin

What use is knowledge if there is no understanding? (Stobaeus)

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#1403689 - 03/25/10 05:12 PM Re: Fantaisie Impromptu Study Group [Re: Hedgeman26]
cast12 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/14/09
Posts: 219


This section is killing me. I can play the rest of the piece fluidly at a reasonable tempo, but when I reach this part, the fingers on my right hand just can't move fast enough. I would like to think this issue is related to endurance, but even when I start from a few measures before this treacherous section, I still can't play it passably.

Does anyone have any advice on tackling this section?

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#1403712 - 03/25/10 05:56 PM Re: Fantaisie Impromptu Study Group [Re: cast12]
zxcjason Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/06/10
Posts: 166
Loc: Vancouver, BC
Cast 12: I'm a bit surprised cuz I found this is an easier section for the fingers compared to other sections. Maybe it is your fingering?

For me I start each phrase with the third finger:
32321235, 32321235, 232123532321235, 32321245, 32321245

Also, it's easier to do the accent too with the 3rd finger I find.

Hope this helps

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#1403729 - 03/25/10 06:13 PM Re: Fantaisie Impromptu Study Group [Re: zxcjason]
cast12 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/14/09
Posts: 219
Originally Posted By: zxcjason
Cast 12: I'm a bit surprised cuz I found this is an easier section for the fingers compared to other sections. Maybe it is your fingering?

For me I start each phrase with the third finger:
32321235, 32321235, 232123532321235, 32321245, 32321245

Also, it's easier to do the accent too with the 3rd finger I find.

Hope this helps


I'm using the same fingering.

I think my problem is identical to that of Brandon_W_T, who said, "That is the part that is killing me! My fingers just don't seem to want to move fast enough when they are so close to each other."

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#1403763 - 03/25/10 07:07 PM Re: Fantaisie Impromptu Study Group [Re: cast12]
ab-ster Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/04/08
Posts: 152
Loc: Seattle
I'm using similar fingering, but I'm using 3 instead of 4 for the last two fours:

32321235, 32321235, 232123532321235, 32321245, 32321245

I use:
32321235, 32321235, 232123532321235, 32321235, 32321235

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#1404145 - 03/26/10 09:48 AM Re: Fantaisie Impromptu Study Group [Re: ab-ster]
Hedgeman26 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/03/09
Posts: 72
Loc: Houston, TX
Yeah, when I first got to this section it felt awkward and was hard to get real even given the close proximity of the notes. BUT, I assure you that after you let it settle a bit and after repeated drilling...it will come to you. I know its not that groundbreaking of advice, but if you are able to play the first 1.5 pages fluently and up to speed, then you are MORE than capable of handling these few measures being that they are not at the same difficuly level. This whole piece is about getting over those fiendish mental obstacles, and once you convince yourself that you can do it...you will do it. Sounds silly but the actual act of "wrapping your mind around the piece" is much harder than actually playing it. The notes will in time just fall under your fingers. It is indeed one of those pieces where it really helps to let it settle for a bit. Don't physically play it for a few days but run it through your head as much as possible. I do just as much mental practice as I do physical practice and it REALLY helps. Sometimes you really just need a good vacation from playing it...the mind works in funny ways.

David
_________________________
Currently learning/playing select pieces from Chopin, Liszt, Beethoven, and Kapustin

What use is knowledge if there is no understanding? (Stobaeus)

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#1404778 - 03/27/10 07:13 AM Re: Fantaisie Impromptu Study Group [Re: Hedgeman26]
zxcjason Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/06/10
Posts: 166
Loc: Vancouver, BC
Originally Posted By: Hedgeman26
Sounds silly but the actual act of "wrapping your mind around the piece" is much harder than actually playing it.


+1

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#1404968 - 03/27/10 01:55 PM Re: Fantaisie Impromptu Study Group [Re: Hedgeman26]
jazzyprof Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/30/04
Posts: 2598
Loc: Ann Arbor, MI
Originally Posted By: Hedgeman26
Sometimes you really just need a good vacation from playing it...the mind works in funny ways.

How true, how true! Last week I was on a trip to Ghana and was away from my piano for a whole week. I was worried that the lack of practice would cause the Fantaisie Impromptu to fall apart completely. To my surprise, when I returned and sat down at the piano, passages I had been struggling with were now literally playing themselves at tempos I had thought impossible before. It seems as if certain neural connections were strengthened during my absence from the piano.
_________________________
"Playing the piano is my greatest joy...period."......JP

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#1406723 - 03/29/10 10:53 PM Re: Fantaisie Impromptu Study Group [Re: jazzyprof]
jazzyprof Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/30/04
Posts: 2598
Loc: Ann Arbor, MI
_________________________
"Playing the piano is my greatest joy...period."......JP

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#1406762 - 03/29/10 11:59 PM Re: Fantaisie Impromptu Study Group [Re: jazzyprof]
ab-ster Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/04/08
Posts: 152
Loc: Seattle
Thanks for those videos jazzyprof, nice find. There are lots of nuances explained there.

Hmmm, I really need to get a teacher.

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#1406855 - 03/30/10 04:13 AM Re: Fantaisie Impromptu Study Group [Re: jazzyprof]
zxcjason Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/06/10
Posts: 166
Loc: Vancouver, BC
Nice video, thanks for posting it jazzyprof.

Katsaris taught very well in the video, the girl was playing much better afterwards, despite some problem with the language. Gave me some idea on interpreting the coda too, can't wait to try when I practise tomorrow!

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#1407292 - 03/30/10 04:55 PM Re: Fantaisie Impromptu Study Group [Re: jazzyprof]
ChopinAddict Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/29/09
Posts: 6077
Loc: Land of the never-ending music
Originally Posted By: jazzyprof
Originally Posted By: ChopinAddict
Is it is OK to use the Dover edition (collection) by the way? Or should I use the Fontana edition?

I'm pretty sure it's OK to use the Dover edition. I think it's based on the Rubinstein manuscript that BruceD mentioned.


No... I just started to read Bailie's comments on the FI, and from what she says the Rubinstein edition is different from the Dover edition...
_________________________



Music is my best friend.


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#1407333 - 03/30/10 05:58 PM Re: Fantaisie Impromptu Study Group [Re: cast12]
aidans Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/08/10
Posts: 141
Originally Posted By: cast12


This section is killing me. I can play the rest of the piece fluidly at a reasonable tempo, but when I reach this part, the fingers on my right hand just can't move fast enough. I would like to think this issue is related to endurance, but even when I start from a few measures before this treacherous section, I still can't play it passably.

Does anyone have any advice on tackling this section?


Apologies if I'm repeating advice offered elsewhere, but have you worked on it much hands-separately?

In my own experience with this piece, I corrected a surprising number of "routine flubs" that I *thought* were in the right hand by working on my left.

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#1407486 - 03/30/10 10:44 PM Re: Fantaisie Impromptu Study Group [Re: zxcjason]
BruceD Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/26/01
Posts: 17666
Loc: Victoria, BC
Originally Posted By: zxcjason
Nice video, thanks for posting it jazzyprof.

Katsaris taught very well in the video, the girl was playing much better afterwards, despite some problem with the language. Gave me some idea on interpreting the coda too, can't wait to try when I practise tomorrow!



I enjoyed Katsaris' master lesson, but I wonder how much of what Katsaris was saying was fully understood by the young pianist. Yes, she did what was suggested, but one does wonder how much of what Katsaris was saying to her was really absorbed. It takes more that just the appropriate amount of technique to "own" a work and teaching can become a problem when a young musician's technique outstrips his musical growth and experience.

Regards,
_________________________
BruceD
- - - - -
Estonia 190 in satin ebony

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#1407510 - 03/30/10 11:28 PM Re: Fantaisie Impromptu Study Group [Re: BruceD]
zxcjason Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/06/10
Posts: 166
Loc: Vancouver, BC
Originally Posted By: BruceD

I enjoyed Katsaris' master lesson, but I wonder how much of what Katsaris was saying was fully understood by the young pianist. Yes, she did what was suggested, but one does wonder how much of what Katsaris was saying to her was really absorbed. It takes more that just the appropriate amount of technique to "own" a work and teaching can become a problem when a young musician's technique outstrips his musical growth and experience.


No doubt the girl has some issue with the language, but musicality, imho, is trasmitted beyond the language. Katsaris did quite well in transmitting the feeling for different passages in the class, I mean, I can feel what he's trying to say when he says something like "play with more freedom, hope, etc", and it's more than just a bunch of words coming out from his mouth. It seems like the girl responded to it too.

Bear in mind she's only like 10 years old, even if she's not getting much of it now, whatever feeling she got from the class will plant a seed in her mind for her future.

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#1407533 - 03/31/10 01:13 AM Re: Fantaisie Impromptu Study Group [Re: ChopinAddict]
ChopinAddict Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/29/09
Posts: 6077
Loc: Land of the never-ending music
Originally Posted By: ChopinAddict
Originally Posted By: jazzyprof
Originally Posted By: ChopinAddict
Is it is OK to use the Dover edition (collection) by the way? Or should I use the Fontana edition?

I'm pretty sure it's OK to use the Dover edition. I think it's based on the Rubinstein manuscript that BruceD mentioned.


No... I just started to read Bailie's comments on the FI, and from what she says the Rubinstein edition is different from the Dover edition...


Well, many parts seem to be the Fontana edition, but the beginning of the Fontana edition I downloaded from the net is different...
_________________________



Music is my best friend.


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#1407535 - 03/31/10 01:14 AM Re: Fantaisie Impromptu Study Group [Re: jazzyprof]
ChopinAddict Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/29/09
Posts: 6077
Loc: Land of the never-ending music
Excellent!
_________________________



Music is my best friend.


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