Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 2 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

SEARCH
the Forums & Piano World

This custom search works much better than the built in one and allows searching older posts.
(ad) End Stage Fright
End Stage Fright
(ad) Pianoteq
Latest Pianoteq add-on instrument: U4 upright piano
(ad) Pearl River
Pearl River Pianos
(ad) P B Guide
Acoustic & Digital Piano Guide
PianoSupplies.com (150)
Piano Accessories Music Related Gifts Piano Tuning Equipment Piano Moving Equipment
We now offer Gift Certificates in our online store!
(ad) Estonia Piano
Estonia Piano
Quick Links to Useful Stuff
Our Classified Ads
Find Piano Professionals-

*Piano Dealers - Piano Stores
*Piano Tuners
*Piano Teachers
*Piano Movers
*Piano Restorations
*Piano Manufacturers
*Organs

Quick Links:
*Advertise On Piano World
*Free Piano Newsletter
*Online Piano Recitals
*Piano Recitals Index
*Piano Accessories
* Buying a Piano
*Buying A Acoustic Piano
*Buying a Digital Piano
*Pianos for Sale
*Sell Your Piano
*How Old is My Piano?
*Piano Books
*Piano Art, Pictures, & Posters
*Directory/Site Map
*Contest
*Links
*Virtual Piano
*Music Word Search
*Piano Screen Saver
*Piano Videos
*Virtual Piano Chords
Page 214 of 274 < 1 2 ... 212 213 214 215 216 ... 273 274 >
Topic Options
#1404998 - 03/27/10 02:40 PM Re: Just for those totally devoted to Chopin [Re: JimF]
ChopinAddict Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/29/09
Posts: 6075
Loc: Land of the never-ending music
Maybe this has already been mentioned, and I apologize if it has...
But I just got the book by E. Bailie and I love it. Then in the Introduction I read she says Chopin was a complex, contradictory personality. That is fine. Then she also calls him "crudely anti-Semitic", and this really put me off... frown
_________________________



Music is my best friend.


Top
(ads P/S)
Sauter Pianos

piano accessories music gifts tuning and moving equipment
#1405002 - 03/27/10 02:44 PM Re: Just for those totally devoted to Chopin [Re: ChopinAddict]
Mary-Rose Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/16/06
Posts: 1428
Loc: Essex, England
I agree with you, ChopinAddict. That book is very good regarding the music but IMO grossly unfair in some of the biographical comments. No-one would quarrel with 'complex personality' but if Chopin was so anti semitic how come he was very friendly with Alkan, for example?
_________________________
Best wishes from MR
http://www.extraloudpurrs.blogspot.com

Top
#1405051 - 03/27/10 05:17 PM Re: Just for those totally devoted to Chopin [Re: ChopinAddict]
-Frycek Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/06/05
Posts: 5921
Loc: SC Mountains
Originally Posted By: ChopinAddict
Maybe this has already been mentioned, and I apologize if it has...
But I just got the book by E. Bailie and I love it. Then in the Introduction I read she says Chopin was a complex, contradictory personality. That is fine. Then she also calls him "crudely anti-Semitic", and this really put me off... frown


Eleanor Baillie isn't much of a biographer. She probably got the crudely anti=Semitic business from biographies referencing the forged Potocka letters. They found their way into a lot of otherwise respectable mid century biogrphies. Chopin was culturally anti-Semitic, but certainly no more so than the average 19th century Catholic. He referred to sharp businessmen as "Jews" - in the case of his publishers which is where he is most known for making the reference - this was literally true. As MaryRose says, he was very good friends with Alkan and friends with Mendelshonn as well. He also admired Jewish music.
_________________________
Slow down and do it right.

Top
#1405632 - 03/28/10 03:42 PM Re: Just for those totally devoted to Chopin [Re: -Frycek]
Elene Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/26/07
Posts: 1402
Loc: near keyboard, mouth open
I've dredged up this quote from Jeff Kallberg from 10/21/09, regarding a connection between Chopin and traditional Jewish music:

"On the home front, I recently did a public lecture at the University of Chicago about this: Memory of Poland. My talk concerned the picture on the bottom (though it mentioned the picture on top too.) Eventually there will be a webcast available; I'll let folks know when this transpires.

Of possible interest is what I think might be the first hearing (played by yours truly) of a sketch Chopin entitled "Doÿna Vallacha", which is to say a doina from the Wallachia region of Romania. (It is a sketch entirely in pencil, a rare thing for Chopin, who almost always sketched in ink.) The doina genre was adopted by klezmer musicians in the early 20th century, and you can hear a definite familial connection between what Chopin wrote and what the early klezmer musicians played. (Here's an example of one of those early klezmer pieces: Joseph Moskowitz )" [Go back to p. 173 for the link]

The average 19th-century Slav seems to have been pretty anti-Semitic (to say nothing of those in the 20th century); I don't know how Catholics were in other places at that time. Perhaps a subject for someone's paper, article, or lecture.

I loved the little guy in that film about "Chopin's Warsaw." A pleasant idea, to represent Chopin as a lively child rather than as the depressed and debilitated man that is often the prevailing image of him. Was that a palm tree I glimpsed in one scene, before the Mardi Gras dancers and the Chinese dragon?? (Surely it can't be!) No wonder young Frycek, wandering around with a map of the new city, looks so bemused.

I hadn't realized that such a huge amount of Warsaw had been leveled by the Nazis. It's horrifying to contemplate, and even more so when one thinks about the other cities that met fates as terrible or worse, including Dresden and Hiroshima, destroyed by the "good guys."

It's too bad the monument to Chopin was also destroyed, but if someone came along and blew up the new one, frankly, I don't think it would be much of an artistic loss.

Last night I was working on a blog entry that has to do with Leopold Godowsky, and I realized that I'd never actually heard any of his versions of the etudes. Here's one I found, 10/12 for left hand alone:
Godowsky's Revolutionary Etude

Elene
_________________________
Semi-Pro Musica

Blog: http://elenedom.wordpress.com
Website: http://elenelistens.com






Top
#1405668 - 03/28/10 04:45 PM Re: Just for those totally devoted to Chopin [Re: Elene]
ChopinAddict Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/29/09
Posts: 6075
Loc: Land of the never-ending music
That's very interesting, with only one hand... thumb
_________________________



Music is my best friend.


Top
#1405683 - 03/28/10 05:09 PM Re: Just for those totally devoted to Chopin [Re: ChopinAddict]
Chopin4life Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/27/09
Posts: 194
Loc: UK
Here are some more of the op. 10 Godowsky Chopin Etudes. I don't particularly like them, but anyway...

Op. 10 no. 1
Op. 10 no. 2
Op. 10 no. 3
Op. 10 no. 4
Op. 10 no. 5
Op. 10 no. 6
Op. 10 no. 7
Op. 10 no. 8
Op. 10 no. 9
Op. 10 no. 10
Op. 10 no. 11

There seem to be various versions of each etude.
_________________________
"Simplicity is the highest goal, achievable when you have overcome all difficulties." - Frédéric Chopin

"Hats off gentlemen, a genius!" - Schumann on Chopin

"Chopin is the greatest of them all, for through the piano alone he discovered everything" - Debussy on Chopin


Venables & Son 152

Top
#1405686 - 03/28/10 05:18 PM Re: Just for those totally devoted to Chopin [Re: ChopinAddict]
Jeff Clef Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/05/08
Posts: 4393
Loc: San Jose, CA
"It's too bad the monument to Chopin was also destroyed, but if someone came along and blew up the new one, frankly, I don't think it would be much of an artistic loss."

It's unfortunate. The "tree" suffers badly by comparison to the actual trees nearby. And to think, they were going to have Rodin do it, but dilly-dallied and argued until it was too late. The attempt to copy his style did not really work out, in my opinion. And the frog.

Worse could have happened, however:


Right downtown in San Jose. It's not even real bronze, either--- it's plastic. This objet d'art has been picketed by two different groups, one which felt it was heathen and sinful, and one which thought it looked like... well, they looked around to see if a giant dog was responsible.

Chopin lovers, count your lucky stars.


Edited by Jeff Clef (03/28/10 05:22 PM)
_________________________
Clef


Top
#1405708 - 03/28/10 05:55 PM Re: Just for those totally devoted to Chopin [Re: Jeff Clef]
-Frycek Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/06/05
Posts: 5921
Loc: SC Mountains
"Is it supposed to be kinda sorta Aztec?" she inquires timidly.

This is a photo taken surreptitiously by a Polish partisan of the fragments of the original monument on a flatcar about to be hauled off as scrap metal.

_________________________
Slow down and do it right.

Top
#1405856 - 03/28/10 09:39 PM Re: Just for those totally devoted to Chopin [Re: -Frycek]
Jeff Clef Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/05/08
Posts: 4393
Loc: San Jose, CA
Since you ask, Frycek. It scarcely has anything to do with Chopin, as such, except for Quetzlcoatl's function as giver of civilization and arts, and the presenter of visions. But, boiled down (very greatly) from Wiki:

"Quetzalcoatl: ubiquitous Mesoamerican deity whose name... means "Feathered-Serpent...": Maya, Olmec, Aztec, Toltec; possibly Hopi; ... was related to gods of the wind, of Venus, of the dawn, of merchants and of arts, crafts and knowledge... patron god of the Aztec priesthood, of learning and knowledge... the embodiment of the sky; presenting Maya kings with visions...the world's largest pyramid was dedicated to his worship. .. associated with the wind god ...a symbol of fertility and internal political structures contrasting with the War Serpent symbolizing the outwards military expansion...part of a triad of agricultural deities: the Goddess of the Cave symbolizing motherhood, reproduction and life, Tlaloc, god of rain, lightning and thunder and the feathered serpent, god of vegetational renewal. ... connected to the planet Venus... as a sign of the beginning of the rainy season. ...Venus was... also symbolically connected with warfare."

"The Vision Serpent has the human face of the young maize god... accompanied by the image of a seated, armed ruler and the hieroglyph for...Wind... patron deity of the Urban center, a god of culture and civilization. Quetzalcoatl was said to oppose human sacrifice."

"... twin gods Tezcatlipoca and Quetzalcoatl...together...created the world; he had...a title reserved for the gods directly involved in the creation, which means "by whom we live"... "lord of the star of the dawn." ...known as the inventor of books and the calendar, the giver of maize (corn) to mankind, and sometimes as a symbol of death and resurrection. ...patron of the priests. Quetzalcoatl...went to ...the underworld, and created fifth-world mankind from the bones of the previous races ...using his own blood, from a wound in his penis, to imbue the bones with new life."

"One Aztec story claims that Quetzalcoatl was seduced by Tezcatlipoca into becoming drunk and sleeping with a celibate priestess...and then burned himself to death out of remorse. His heart became the morning star."

"See also: Quetzalcoatlus, a pterosaur from the Late Cretaceous."
_________________________
Clef


Top
#1405860 - 03/28/10 09:45 PM Re: Just for those totally devoted to Chopin [Re: Jeff Clef]
-Frycek Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/06/05
Posts: 5921
Loc: SC Mountains
No wonder it upset the missionaries. wink
_________________________
Slow down and do it right.

Top
#1405976 - 03/29/10 02:45 AM Re: Just for those totally devoted to Chopin [Re: Elene]
J.A.S Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/28/10
Posts: 279
Loc: Warsaw, Poland
Originally Posted By: Elene
I loved the little guy in that film about "Chopin's Warsaw." [...] Was that a palm tree I glimpsed in one scene, before the Mardi Gras dancers and the Chinese dragon?? (Surely it can't be!)

Yes, a palm tree! An artificial one unfortunately. In 2002, the artist Joanna Rajkowska built it as an artistic "installation" in Charles de Gaulle Square in Warsaw. The citizens took a liking to it so much that it is now is a permanent element of the city landscape, rebuilt using more durable materials.

Palm Tree in Warsaw
_________________________
J.A.S

Top
#1406127 - 03/29/10 10:23 AM Re: Just for those totally devoted to Chopin [Re: J.A.S]
-Frycek Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/06/05
Posts: 5921
Loc: SC Mountains
Actual living palm in Poland. Note it is snugly against the wall of the house and is probably protected during the winter. (I have five of these in my backyard.)


Trachycarpus fortunei in Poland
_________________________
Slow down and do it right.

Top
#1406218 - 03/29/10 12:10 PM Re: Just for those totally devoted to Chopin [Re: -Frycek]
FrChopinFan Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/29/10
Posts: 67
Loc: southeastern USA
Hello, I stumbled on this forum while googling for something, and joined just for this thread. I'm obssessed with Chopin, although I don't play piano even a little bit. I've read a few biographies (most notably, Chopin in Paris by Tad Sculz) and I continue to add to my collection of Chopin music as I find great pianists. This morning I discovered one named Vitalji Margulis, he plays the Etude in A minor like I've never heard it before.

I'm still working my way through all 214 pages of this thread (I think I'm only on page 11) but I feel right at home, and I'm really enjoying this discussion.
_________________________
"That nice good-natured Chopin played for us a while. What a charming genius!" Delacroix

Top
#1406225 - 03/29/10 12:19 PM Re: Just for those totally devoted to Chopin [Re: FrChopinFan]
Elene Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/26/07
Posts: 1402
Loc: near keyboard, mouth open
Hi, FrChopinFan-- I hope you'll find it worth your while to pick through this thread. (I think you will!)

On Performance Today right now they're reading comments from listeners. One wrote about a performance by Rafal Blechacz, "He plays mazurkas so naturally, they finally make sense." ha I think those of us who have struggled to plumb the depths of these deceptively "simple" pieces know what he meant!

I am relieved to think that the palm tree in Warsaw is artificial. Or perhaps "relieved" is not the word....

Elene
_________________________
Semi-Pro Musica

Blog: http://elenedom.wordpress.com
Website: http://elenelistens.com






Top
#1406356 - 03/29/10 02:27 PM Re: Just for those totally devoted to Chopin [Re: Elene]
Jeff Clef Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/05/08
Posts: 4393
Loc: San Jose, CA
T. fortunei, a native of China often grown in California, is listed as being hardy to -10 F, or lower. I see climate data listed for Warsaw as having average low temps, in the coldest months, as 21 degrees F, but it can plunge down to -23 F.

Luther Burbank described the palms as having the strongest of wills; very resistant to any kind of horticultural tampering. He found it easier to develop a spineless cactus, which he hoped would serve as food for range cattle. However, cattle did not like it.

Trachycarpus is very slow-growing, so the evidence that the plants have gotten as large as they have in Warsaw suggests that the southern exposure with a heat-trapping roof overhang (with at least some wind protection on the east and west) has spared them--- at least, as long as the last twenty to thirty years.

They are not my favorite palm, but there's no denying they're tough.
_________________________
Clef


Top
#1406443 - 03/29/10 04:27 PM Re: Just for those totally devoted to Chopin [Re: Jeff Clef]
Mary-Rose Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/16/06
Posts: 1428
Loc: Essex, England
FrChopinFan - so glad you found us! I was sooo happy when I first chanced upon this thread a few years back; until then I didn't know anyone as crazy about Chopin as I was. Now I do.

What particularly attracts you about him, as you are a non-pianist? (I got to know him via the printed score first, then by listening and later by reading about his life.)
_________________________
Best wishes from MR
http://www.extraloudpurrs.blogspot.com

Top
#1406489 - 03/29/10 05:26 PM Re: Just for those totally devoted to Chopin [Re: Mary-Rose]
FrChopinFan Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/29/10
Posts: 67
Loc: southeastern USA
Originally Posted By: Mary-Rose

What particularly attracts you about him, as you are a non-pianist?


This -- quoted from you yourself, back in 2006 on page 15:

"what attracts us to Chopin? It seems that he also attracted people during his lifetime with a unique magnetism. He had many, many good and faithful friends who truly loved him and wrote eulogies about him. I think that his music is very much a reflection of the person he was - in real life he was a very private person, but in his music he unstintingly reveals his soul to anyone who cares to listen. And that soul is beautiful. He is very human. We recognise that in him, and it makes some of us love him very much."

I don't think I can say it any better than that.

And this, from loveschopintoomuch, on the same page:

"There is a yearning in all of his music, both the lively mazurkas and the more somber ballades. And it is this yearning that gets to me. Yearning for what? I really don't know."

That sense of yearning draws me in, and I can't get out. wink


Chopin was like a door for me into classical music, especially piano. I didn't really like it much before, but something resonated. I read everything I could find about him, listened to eveything of his I could -- and it led to an interest in Schumann and Liszt, and then Mozart, Beethoven, Satie and others. But, still, in my mind, Chopin is listed as first and foremost, and way down underneath, there's "everybody else." So he got me interested in classical music, but he's still the standard by which I measure everything else. He's even my mental timeline: "the civil war was in 1865, let's see - that's about 26 years after Chopin died..."

My two goals in life are to put flowers on his grave in Paris (I live in the US and don't actually know that I'll ever get to Europe), and to play the Revolutionary Etude. I have a keyboard for my son when he comes home from college (he's played that etude at a college recital), and I started a beginner piano book a year ago, but had to take a break when I got halfway through with it (life got busy). Actually, I'd be happy if I could play anything of his. Life should be getting back to a more normal pace, and I hope to pick my piano lessons again.

I thought I was the only obsessed Chopin fan -- I'm so happy to find all of you!
_________________________
"That nice good-natured Chopin played for us a while. What a charming genius!" Delacroix

Top
#1407220 - 03/30/10 03:34 PM Re: Just for those totally devoted to Chopin [Re: Thalamus]
FrChopinFan Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/29/10
Posts: 67
Loc: southeastern USA
I hope I'm not out of line bringing back a three year old discussion - I'm slowly working my way through this thread and I'm still only on page 50! I can usually skim stuff pretty quickly, but these posts have links, and info and technical piano explanations (which are over my head, but still interesting) and things that take some time to thoroughly read.

I'm up to a discussion about why most Chopin devotees don't like George Sand, and there was this:

Originally Posted By: Thalamus

One more thought - it could be that her leaving was auspiciously timed, for her own very selfish reasons. Sands may truly have loved Chopin, which would be why she cherised him for as long as she did. And she may have left when she did to avoid mourning - she does not strike me as the type that would easily tolerate grief.


I don't think she left him to avoid mourning; she was already bored with him long before the actual break-up. Later, Sand actually did nurse a young lover until he died of TB and she seemed heartbroken about the experience. I wonder if she ever thought back of Chopin, who had died by that time?

Originally Posted By: loveschopintoomuch

He was, in a word, a gentleman. Though heart-broken and completely at a loss for the reasons for the break-up, he always maintained a kind and forgiving attitude. In his letters he once wrote (after the breakup) "....and she said I would die in her arms." Now if that doesn't wrench the soul right out of your spirit, I don't know what would.


I've just finished Chopin's Letters. I didn't see that quote in there, although I've read it in a biography. Is this another Chopin myth, or is it actually in one of his letters?

What I did see quite a bit in his letters was Chopin complaining that Jane Stirling and her sister bored him to distraction. Although Jane Stirling meant well, I think he suffered as much with her as he ever did at the hands of Sand. And I suspect that, for all Sand's faults, one positive thing she had going for her was that she surely wasn't boring! Whatever complexities were part of Chopin's make-up, Sand seems to have interested him; Jane Stirling did not.
_________________________
"That nice good-natured Chopin played for us a while. What a charming genius!" Delacroix

Top
#1407234 - 03/30/10 03:46 PM Re: Just for those totally devoted to Chopin [Re: FrChopinFan]
-Frycek Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/06/05
Posts: 5921
Loc: SC Mountains
Originally Posted By: FrChopinFan
"....and she said I would die in her arms." Now if that doesn't wrench the soul right out of your spirit, I don't know what would.

It's not a myth. Chopin said it on his deathbed to his friend the cellish Auguste Franchomme. I believe the quote was more like, "she said I would die in no arms but hers."

BTW the standard edition of Chopin's Letters is woefully incomplete. We need a new one. Maybe we should start a petition.

Part of the Sterling problem was that Jane's sister was bound and determined to convert him to Protestatism. Can't think of much the would be less likely to endear one to a dying Catholic.
_________________________
Slow down and do it right.

Top
#1407254 - 03/30/10 04:10 PM Re: Just for those totally devoted to Chopin [Re: -Frycek]
Elene Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/26/07
Posts: 1402
Loc: near keyboard, mouth open
Mmm.

Sand was not bored with Chopin; things were far more complicated than that. I am quite convinced that she did truly love him, though, again, things were far more complicated than that. One can see from what happened with Manceau years later, when he was debilitated and dying, that the similarity to her situation with Chopin was not lost on her, and that she was determined not to make the same mistake with him.

One of Mme Sand's complicated feelings may well have been a desire to avoid the horrible end that was certainly coming; I think Thalamus' point was well taken. However, from her letters, it appears that she believed Chopin would be healthier and happier if he was away from her and from their dysfunctional, stressful relationship. I don't think that was a matter of hypocrisy on her part. It fits with the medical thinking of the time, and it seems likely to me that she actually did believe it. This is one reason I don't accuse her of "abandoning" him. I don't think it was meant that way.

I don't think it's quite accurate to characterize Chopin as a Catholic at the end of his life. But certainly, he was not interested in being converted to the Scottish ladies' religious views.

Elene
_________________________
Semi-Pro Musica

Blog: http://elenedom.wordpress.com
Website: http://elenelistens.com






Top
#1407273 - 03/30/10 04:33 PM Re: Just for those totally devoted to Chopin [Re: -Frycek]
FrChopinFan Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/29/10
Posts: 67
Loc: southeastern USA
Originally Posted By: -Frycek

BTW the standard edition of Chopin's Letters is woefully incomplete. We need a new one. Maybe we should start a petition.


I wondered if there was something missing. I think we do need a new one!

Wasn't there someone here who was going to learn Polish so they could read the letters in their original language? Maybe I'll find out as I continue through the rest of the thread (it could be days - I'm averaging 30 pages in a day).

Originally Posted By: -Frycek

It's not a myth. Chopin said it on his deathbed to his friend the cellish Auguste Franchomme. I believe the quote was more like, "she said I would die in no arms but hers."


I was hoping this was not true; it makes the whole thing so much more tragic.
_________________________
"That nice good-natured Chopin played for us a while. What a charming genius!" Delacroix

Top
#1407294 - 03/30/10 04:57 PM Re: Just for those totally devoted to Chopin [Re: Elene]
-Frycek Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/06/05
Posts: 5921
Loc: SC Mountains
Originally Posted By: Elene
I don't think it's quite accurate to characterize Chopin as a Catholic at the end of his life. But certainly, he was not interested in being converted to the Scottish ladies' religious views.


As James Joyce said in a similar situation, "I've lost my faith, not my mind!"

FrChopinFan - It's so good to have a new hard core Chopinoholic to rehash this all out with. smile
_________________________
Slow down and do it right.

Top
#1407301 - 03/30/10 05:03 PM Re: Just for those totally devoted to Chopin [Re: FrChopinFan]
ChopinAddict Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/29/09
Posts: 6075
Loc: Land of the never-ending music
Congratulations on trying to go through the whole thread. This is truly remarkable! thumb
_________________________



Music is my best friend.


Top
#1407313 - 03/30/10 05:20 PM Re: Just for those totally devoted to Chopin [Re: ChopinAddict]
FrChopinFan Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/29/10
Posts: 67
Loc: southeastern USA
Originally Posted By: ChopinAddict
Congratulations on trying to go through the whole thread. This is truly remarkable!


It's not really remarkable when you consider that I feel compelled. People are talking about Chopin, and I'm missing out! I wish I'd been here from the beginning.
_________________________
"That nice good-natured Chopin played for us a while. What a charming genius!" Delacroix

Top
#1407315 - 03/30/10 05:26 PM Re: Just for those totally devoted to Chopin [Re: ChopinAddict]
Elene Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/26/07
Posts: 1402
Loc: near keyboard, mouth open
About the letters-- I keep wishing for "real" research skills like "real" musicologists have! If the edition of Chopin's letters is inadequate, is there anything we ourselves can do about it? This is mostly a rhetorical question, but I am itching to make some kind of concrete contribution to the literature.

(I haven't even finished the song transpositions/transcriptions that I've been wanting to make available to everyone.)

FrChopinFan, I'm working on learning Polish, but I wouldn't be the person you're thinking of. And I'm a long, long way from being able to translate letters, though I can read some of them a little bit now.

I'm terribly pleased with myself because I've learned the endings for accusative case! It's a small accomplishment, but at least my brain no longer seizes up at the very thought of case endings.

Elene
_________________________
Semi-Pro Musica

Blog: http://elenedom.wordpress.com
Website: http://elenelistens.com






Top
#1407431 - 03/30/10 08:46 PM Re: Just for those totally devoted to Chopin [Re: loveschopintoomuch]
FrChopinFan Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/29/10
Posts: 67
Loc: southeastern USA
I really hope this isn't a no-no, digging out old posts. This one is from Apr 2007.

Originally Posted By: loveschopintoomuch

Now back to your wonderful questions about Chopin. I, of course, agree with Frycek that Chopin's last years did interfere with his output of compositions. However, it was during this time and perhaps a little before, that he created some astoundingly "modern" music. It was as if he were reaching out to the 20th century and experimenting with harmony and content. There are some compositions...the Op. 45 prelude, the Polonaise-Fantaisie, Op. 61...and several others (I'd have to look them up) that are so unusual for him that one wonders what he was thinking. But upon listening to them a few times, you finally "get" it. And they are magnificent. If he had lived several more years, I believe we would have seen Chopin do an almost complete turnaround from what he had written in the past. I hope someone can fill in those other pieces that are of this nature.


I've had the Op 45 Prelude playing, and this idea is intriguing. If Chopin had lived longer and continued to compose, would he have done a turnaround and become more modern? Is that what happens to composers as they mature and explore what they can do with music, and start wanting to "push the envelope?" I remember trying to figure out a later piece of Mozart, and it was surprisingly modern and not always easy to listen to - I don't know if the term I'm thinking of is atonal or disharmonic. As understanding and appreciation of music grows and matures, is that where it inevitably leads, both for the composer and the listener? It's interesting to wonder what direction Chopin would have gone in. Liszt lived a long time - I'm not as familiar with his music, but did he get more modern in that sense as he got older?
_________________________
"That nice good-natured Chopin played for us a while. What a charming genius!" Delacroix

Top
#1407530 - 03/31/10 12:50 AM Re: Just for those totally devoted to Chopin [Re: FrChopinFan]
Elene Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/26/07
Posts: 1402
Loc: near keyboard, mouth open
'If Chopin had lived longer and continued to compose, would he have done a turnaround and become more modern? Is that what happens to composers as they mature and explore what they can do with music, and start wanting to "push the envelope?"'

Remember the Wikipedia article on the Chopin from the fictional "Il Bethisad" universe? I'm still chuckling over the idea of Chopin living to be 94 and continuing to innovate to such a degree that nobody could figure out what he was doing anymore. In the case of the real Chopin, though, there was a change of style around 1848 that affected him along with others. That Op. 45 prelude sounds rather like Brahms to me.

' I remember trying to figure out a later piece of Mozart, and it was surprisingly modern and not always easy to listen to - I don't know if the term I'm thinking of is atonal or disharmonic. As understanding and appreciation of music grows and matures, is that where it inevitably leads, both for the composer and the listener?'

Maybe not inevitable, I don't know, but I guess not surprising.

' It's interesting to wonder what direction Chopin would have gone in. Liszt lived a long time - I'm not as familiar with his music, but did he get more modern in that sense as he got older?'

As far as I know he did get more modern. Liszt blossomed as a composer much later than Chopin did.

Elene
_________________________
Semi-Pro Musica

Blog: http://elenedom.wordpress.com
Website: http://elenelistens.com






Top
#1407588 - 03/31/10 04:33 AM Re: Just for those totally devoted to Chopin [Re: Elene]
shaulhadar Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/07/09
Posts: 36
Loc: Israel
i think the berceuse op. 58 is the most dominant peice in which you can hear some of the changes in chopin's more mature compositions, (i know he wanted first to call it variantes),in which his style changed, i mean you can clearly hear where debussy had taken his muse from. its such an abstract peice, yet so amazingly crafted :), i wish chopin whould have survived a bit longer to see what he whould write afterwards, but think he single handidly took the piano the upper hierarchy of music smile


Edited by shaulhadar (03/31/10 04:34 AM)
_________________________
check out for my recording smile
http://www.last.fm/music/Shaul+Hadar/Shaul+plays+Chopin+and+Mendhelssohn
and my Chopin page:
http://chopin-opus.66ghz.com

Top
#1407712 - 03/31/10 10:35 AM Re: Just for those totally devoted to Chopin [Re: shaulhadar]
FrChopinFan Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/29/10
Posts: 67
Loc: southeastern USA
Originally Posted By: shaulhadar
i think the berceuse op. 58 is the most dominant peice in which you can hear some of the changes in chopin's more mature compositions, (i know he wanted first to call it variantes),in which his style changed, i mean you can clearly hear where debussy had taken his muse from. its such an abstract peice, yet so amazingly crafted :),


That's my favorite piece - yet I always think that I don't "get" modern/abstract music...
_________________________
"That nice good-natured Chopin played for us a while. What a charming genius!" Delacroix

Top
#1407713 - 03/31/10 10:37 AM Re: Just for those totally devoted to Chopin [Re: Elene]
FrChopinFan Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/29/10
Posts: 67
Loc: southeastern USA
Originally Posted By: Elene

Remember the Wikipedia article on the Chopin from the fictional "Il Bethisad" universe? I'm still chuckling over the idea of Chopin living to be 94 and continuing to innovate to such a degree that nobody could figure out what he was doing anymore.


I haven't come across that - maybe I'm that far in the thread yet?
_________________________
"That nice good-natured Chopin played for us a while. What a charming genius!" Delacroix

Top
Page 214 of 274 < 1 2 ... 212 213 214 215 216 ... 273 274 >

Moderator:  BB Player, casinitaly 
What's Hot!!
HOW TO POST PICTURES on the Piano Forums
-------------------
Sharing is Caring!
About the Buttons
-------------------
Forums Rules & Help
-------------------
ADVERTISE
on Piano World

The world's most popular piano web site.
-------------------
PIANO BOOKS
Interesting books about the piano, pianists, piano history, biographies, memoirs and more!
(125ad) Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
Sheet Music
(PW is an affiliate)
Sheet Music Plus Featured Sale
Download & Print Sheet Music Instantly
sheet music search
sheet music search

sheet music search
(ad) HAILUN Pianos
Hailun Pianos - Click for More
(ad) Lindeblad Piano
Lindeblad Piano Restoration
Who's Online
169 registered (ando, Almaviva, accordeur, Anne'sson, anotherscott, 52 invisible), 1813 Guests and 54 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Stats
74206 Members
42 Forums
153499 Topics
2249395 Posts

Max Online: 15252 @ 03/21/10 11:39 PM
New Topics - Multiple Forums
Happy Birthday TwoSnowflakes
by gooddog
04/16/14 02:23 PM
Troubleshooting the Gravity Drop/Weight Transfer etc.
by bledredwine
04/16/14 11:16 AM
Stories in SoundBook 2 Valerie Roth Roubos
by DameMyra
04/16/14 10:48 AM
Teaching memorization
by clarikeys
04/16/14 07:45 AM
Accepted Procedure for Having a Piano Tech look at a piano?
by Paul678
04/16/14 07:19 AM
(ads by Google)

Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers

 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
| Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World | Donate | Link to Us | Classifieds |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter | Press Room |


copyright 1997 - 2014 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission