I wonder if we might open(re-open) the subject of Anonymous VS Fully disclosing who we are.

I recently PM'd an anonymous person here asking him/her to add their name in their signature line. They chose to mention that in the Bass String thread. Actually, it was another thread that motivated me to PM them with my request.

I would rather focus on the subject as a whole and not single anyone out.

A couple of questions;

Do we feel that the discussions would be any more civilized if we had the expectation that posters, especially industry professionals, made a fuller disclosure?

Is it possible that discussions may benefit from some that might then post that do not now?

I would rather read what a person really has to say while being incognito than read what a person might instead say in order to keep an image. You can learn a lot about a business, and its employees, by reading the bathroom walls.

After 24 years at sea I cannot make any useful comments about civility.

Posting under your real name moderates the quality and the content of the posting.

Posting under a pseudonym removes responsibility for the postings and their content.

If a member would like respect, demonstrate some to yourself by posting under your real name.

The most resistance I have read regarding this is the complaint of having an identity stolen.

If you actually have managed to convince yourself that you are so important that your name and identity will be stolen then you are so helplessly self centered that I believe you require more assistance than just with your piano or your technical expertise.

If a person is honest, it will not make a difference if they are posting under their own identity or not. Where is Diogenes when you need him?

But is a person honest if he or she chooses to hide his or her name?

Hard and fast rules about this won't be followed by everyone, but most people who are ethical have no reason to hide their identity.

"All the world's a stage ..."

"... a rose by any other name ..."

I thought Frank Baxter made it clear in a sticky note in the Piano forum that all industry professional (tech/builder/restorer included) must identify themselves in the signature with their business affiliation clearly stated. So industry pros are not allowed to be anonymous in this forum.

Link to Franks Full Disclosure Thread

Personally, I think that if one's name is associated with something, we tend to have a greater sense of personal responsibility about the things we say. Think more, take a little more time on things.

I do not publish my name because I am not soliciting anyone for my own gain. Does that mean that I have less responsibility than someone who plasters the name of their business on their posts and spews sales hype in the hopes that it might mean more business?

I agree with Dan and others in that for the "most part" (there are exceptions to every rule) people that are willing to disclose their real name are much less prone to becoming trouble makers than those that choose not to disclose their true identity. I am also more likely to respond to a real person rather than to a fake name.

On the other hand, if a fake named person trusts me enough to let me know their real name in private, I will keep that completely confidential and private forever as I have with some members in here. That personal disclosure gives me a lot more respect for that person in general in that they opened up in private at least.

And, yes, there are those like BDB who's identity is hidden but is still a respected technician in here regardless BUT, it shows in how he writes and his intelligent responses as well. While, in certain other members posts, their little digs and pokes come though loud and clear consistently either way which tells me they have some sort of self esteem problem or worse..

Reading over Frank's rule, I don't think it requires disclosure of one's name: only disclosure of one's affiliation.

That said, I, too, prefer to know who I'm 'talking' to...but it's not too difficult to clock a poster, as to their credentials. Goats are easy to tell from sheep...

As for myself, musical training, with it's attendant public performance, taught me years ago not to worry about making a fool of myself...it's gonna happen...get over it!! So, I don't care who knows who I am!!

This is a technical forum. Well, in reality, it really has become a layman’s forum. I don’t see anyone doing much soliciting here at all. What is done here primarily is chat about pianos and questions answered about piano stuff.

Do you see technical members here spewing sales hype? I sure don’t. As far as the plastering of names goes, as a business professional, I am obligated to reveal myself as per Frank Baxter’s forum requirements. This is not my place, I am a guest here.

Sales hype happens far more in the Piano Forum, but you cannot pick and choose where it happens, or where to disclose your name.

As a layman I do read the signatures of every poster to consider how valuable their advice is. I tend to believe professionals and respect their input more than just say an anonymous tinkerer. I'd expect that others would do the same if they were serious about the information they were looking for. I am a professional and I hope respected in my industry, not pianos, so I do value name recognition. I use my full name though partly as disclosure, and partly because I couldn't think of anything else (when the pressure was on at forum sign-up).

James

I actually have a real good reason for posting my initials only now. It doesn't bother me that others choose to do this either. Whatever one uses as their identity simply becomes their name here on the forum. To state that someone has self esteem issues simply because they don't state their full name seems a bit judgmental to me. If I had the time to sit here and flap my phalanges all day long maybe I would be more concerned about it.

I have more respect for pro's who identify themselves as it seems to temper their responses a bit. It's easy to insult or make digs when it doesn't come back to bite and I notice that there is a more professional tone in forums that require full disclosure. Requiring full disclosure prevents ad hominum references and ensures that people back up their opinions with more than just opinion. It also encourages more openness to learning from others with more knowledge. You can't just slam someone with a few glib observations and walk away.

Though I am sometimes, in retrospect, a bit guilty of trying to have fun at someones else's expense, I find that disclosure makes me consider a more civilized discourse.

Recently an anonymous poster here bragged about how he (she?) manipulated threads on an unnamed forum (possibly PW??), using a sock to argue with himself and with others. Wonderfully smart and clever! Absolutely admirable. And only possible if you hide your identity.

I may be a bit impatient from time to time when I am responding to certain posts. I hope I have not offended anyone in the past. If so, count your lucky stars - just imagine what I could have said if I had been anonymous!!!

This may have happen on the Pianotech list about a year ago. Somebody created some problems and ruffle some feathers and remained anonymous

Exactly. The subject of self esteem is a complex one and commonly misunderstood. in fact, a healthy self esteem does not encompass egotism, egoism, conceit, bullying, self-agrandisement, etc.
Having said that, is it necessary for me to fully disclose my psychological qualifications, or lack of them, for saying it on a piano forum?. Would it add weight to my pronouncements? How could you be sure that my qualifications are not fake?

I have not done a study, but it seems to me that most insulting behaviour on this forum comes from people who do disclose their names.

The requirements for this forum are clearly stated in Frank’s forum rules. In that document, you will discover that industry professionals are required to reveal their identity and their affiliation. Nothing wrong with having some rules or guidance for the forum that a person owns.



And some of it comes from members who do not take the time to actually read and comprehend the forum requirements document.

Thank You, I can't resist ...

Hhhmmm, A Psyc. Eval. as a pre-requirement for joining these forums ....

Now that is a notion that could gain legs!

Only ONE problem Larry! There would be nobody here including us! The forums would be empty!!!

I have noticed the same thing. A person’s high status (actual or perceived) can make the person feel entitled to be abusive. And others with the same high status (such as belonging to the same organization) instead of chastising the person may actually enable the person by being silent. Or if any chastisement is not made public in some way, the organization will be looked at as just a bunch of “good ‘ol boys.” If you think I am singling out any particular organization, read the news. Even those that strive for the highest morals are subject to this evil.

Let he who is without guilt cast the first stone... So, are you casting or reeling???

I think the reverse is also true, most people who are ethical have no reason to identify themselves needlessly and those that insist on having everyone identify themselves just make real people jump through needless hurdles, since no one is sitting around checking identification anyways.

Anyways, back to working on my doctorate of Ninjutsu.

If the shoe fits....

Actually though, you're the only one that started throwing stones and naming names.

A forum that mandates full disclosure of identity simply has less moderating work ahead of it; after all, once you kick someone, they are gone and cannot return under a different name. If the moderators are up to the task of settling disputes and removing inappropriate postings, the benefit of not having full disclosure is that more (real)questions are asked. There is nothing like the fear of ridicule to keep one silent and ignorant.

Certain forums tend to accumulate a lot of type A personalities and for these it makes no difference if there is disclosure or not. For some of these the thrill that comes from being warned, threatened, or kicked is what fuels their inner need to be defiant and controversial....so much so that at times these characters will taunt other posters or even forum owners to tangle horns with them just for that purpose. Without a name attached to these individuals, their posts would otherwise be ignored by the more civil minded readers and simply regarded as coming from a child or someone with a child like mind.

Oh Byron, I am not. I was just teasing Jeff.... Did you not see the grin?

I choose to remain anonymous. Thank you.

Rick Davies, Technician, aka RPD
www.actionpianoservice.com

Generally, why would any of us spend time on this forum if we didn't care a thing about what is discussed?

If we don't care, then sure, stay anonymous, say what you like because ultimately to you - who cares.

Ah, but if we do care, even just a little, and go through the time to actually post, why would anyone resist signing what they have to say? I don't suggest first and last names with accompanying address, but some sort of manner in which everyone is able to qualify the individual.

If a person isn't willing to do this, after you strip all the layers aside, there can only be two possible reasons:
One, they do in fact use this as a 'second' sort of incognito life due to self esteem issues, or
Two, for one reason or another, they genuinely want to express a side of themselves that they are insecure with thus far (ie, they want to comment and feel they have good contributions to make, but are afraid of being 'attacked' by the more educated and possibly more eloquent writers that lurk around these parts).

So for me, I'm for owning up to what you post. Don't waste my time making me sift through/past your posts if you don't even think what you have to say is worth it's authors autograph!

OK, here's where I'm coming from on this.

I had a customer misunderstand something that I wrote here. My name was googled and the person was led to this forum. I was not able to explain what I really meant because I was not with the person when they read and misunderstood what I wrote. I found out later while having a discussion with the person. So, I no longer have my first and last name as a signature in order to avoid such misunderstandings in the future..... So there it is.

That's to bad Byron. I've actually gotten quite a lot of work, phone calls, private emails, private PM's and have made appointments with new customers because of this piano forum and my postings. Not that I'm any brighter than anyone else in here. Maybe my bulb is even dimmer! NO COMMENTS ON THAT ONE NOW!!!

I've also been fortunate enough to make some pretty good friends in here since I started. I'm keeping my name in here. That's my story and "I'm sticking to it!"

I obviously don't care anything about being anonymous, but I know for a fact that some people don't care as much about remaining anonymous on a forum, as they do remaining anonymous on the Internet.

I don't know what kind of trouble you can get into if you name is known to the world but apparently it can be a problem. Maybe someone can tell what issues there could be.

Anyway, I certainly respect that reason and support their decision.

I think I've read threads here about people who have changed their names because of various issues.

And, seriously from me this time...I really don't care if the folks posting are using their sir names or not. I use RPD (my initials and why couldn't my last name start with "T"...just kidding guys)

Anyway, I've had great discussions with people who use their sir names, and also others who slightly veil their names like I do (one click away, and there I am). I don't take too seriously critics or techs who speak in negative terms but only give their alias names, but that's just my view.

Its all good.

RPD

I consider you a friend Jerry, I really do.
And my finger print record is clean, so are my socks and underwear. My full name is Jack Byr-n Ens-gn III. Sorry, too much information... huh?

Well, even though I've never actually met him...face-wise...I don't like Jerry...I think he's too frostbitten to be congenial to us warm-folk...AND IN THIS, I AM UNANIMOUS!!!

Dangit...now I can't loose my tongue from my cheek...blech...

Thanks Byron, the feeling is mutual.

Is that really your name or are you having funnin with my widdle mind again?



Just for that, may all of the bats in the belfry flip around and join the bats in your belfry and fly around your head for hours on end while you run and hide trying to get away the next time you tune in an old church JD!

Cool, I like it.