I need a silent piano alternative to my Steinway B. Space is a consideration. I have been considering an AvantGrand N2 which was offered by a dealer for 10K. Just heard of a used Disklavier Grantouch DGT2 for 5K. I'm principally interested in an action that resembles as much as possible a grand piano - don't really care for bells and whistles in terms of recording features, fancy speakers, etc. Can anyone comment on the actions of these two models? Are they the same? Is it worth checking out the DGT2? I don't want to spend 10K! Thanks in advance for any advice.

You probably know this already, but . . . With respect to the N2, you don't really get a lot of bells and whistles (which is fine by me). You get five voices (2 pianos, 1 harpsichord and 2 electric keyboards). You can lay down a MIDI track and save it to a USB thumb drive. What you do get is a very good action (with TRS ("tactile response system") -- which, I was happy to discover, is a true benefit, not a gimmick), a very sophisticated sustain pedal and a very good piano sample set (nice sounding, well tuned, nicely voiced). And, of course, you get MIDI in and MIDI out, which opens up a whole world of exciting possibilities.

Like you, I have a Steinway B. The N2 is a great practice companion, and it greatly simplifies recording performances. Its action is a little bit more consistent than my Steinway. I had been prepared to run the N2 most of the time into a MacBook Pro (with an upgraded 7200 rpm hard drive) in order to run a virtual piano. I've tried the Garritan Steinway (Standard edition), the Steinberg Grand 3 and the Galaxy Vintage D, but so far the N2 seems more "playable" when running its own internal samples. And the N2's primary grand piano sample sounds more realistic to me than Pianoteq (in Pianoteq's demo version, anyway -- but Pianoteq is a very "playable" virtual instrument). The realistic sustain pedal of the internal N2 samples (subtle partial pedaling capability, complete with very realistic string "bloom" and repedaling effects) is notable when "A/B"-ing it against the aforementioned sampled virtual instruments. (Pianoteq also has a very good pedal.) I will say this, however, the Galaxy Vintage D has a beautiful sound, and I plan to continue to tinker with the velocity curve in order to make that instrument more playable on the N2. I'm also looking forward to the release of Synthogy Ivory 2. With these virtual instruments right now, it seems to me it's almost all about the pedal effects.

I don't know anything about the Grandtouch. I do know that the $10k price you've been quoted for the N2 is cheaper than what I paid and, I think, is a good deal. I paid a little more, but I don't have any buyer's remorse. I don't mind supporting the local dealer and the salesperson who sold me the piano. They have been a very valuable source of information in this new world of digital pianos.

Finally, I should say this: You may think you don't care about the sound, but once you zero in on a sample or blend of samples that bothers you, it can become like fingernails on a chalkboard. That's what eventually leads you into the virtual piano option (and headphones and headphone amps and speakers . . . ).

I own an N3 and don't know much about the GranTouch, except I heard that the GranTouch action is pretty good, too, since it's also a real acoustic grand action. It's probably not exactly the same action as the N2 since the GranTouch has been around for 10 years or so already, but I think it should still be very similar and realistic since grand keyboard action hasn't changed that much over the years anyway.

However, I don't think the GranTouch has the TRS vibration like the N3/N2 does, and I don't know the extent of how real the GranTouch half pedaling is as compared to the N2. Also, I heard from an owner of a GranTouch GT1 (Dave Ferris if I remember correctly, who's a poster on this board) that although his GT1 sounds pretty good, he could tell that the N3/N2 sampled sound is better. Maybe Dave will come across this post and give you his inputs.

So I think if you already have a Steinway B and just want a silent option with realistic enough keyboard action, the DGT2 may suffice for 1/2 the price of the N2. However, I saw that you also mention space is a consideration, and I think the DGT2 is a smaller grand style DP, isn't it? And the N2 is an upright. But I think the DGT2 is not that much bigger since it's pretty short itself.

Although you said you don't need a lot of bells & whistles or lots of sounds, I think the DGT2 probably has more sounds and bells & whistles than the N2 does.

Finally, since the DGT2 is older, the keyboard may need a fresh regulation if necessary.

I think the DGT2 is definitely worth checking out for $5K less (and no tax on top to boost).

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I had a GT2 for a few years and would recommend one for your requirements. I believe the action will be identical to the AG. My only comment would be (and I haven't played any disklavier) that I have heard that the solenoids that trigger the keys on Disklaviers can have a slightly detrimental effect on the keys when you play them.

If I were buying the thing as my principle instrument I would have the AG without question as its onboard sound(s) and tactile response system would make it significantly more satisfying than a GT2. But if silent practice and pure key action are your main priorities then as Dave says, save some money and get a GT2. I sold mine as part of a trade-in deal and I reckon the dealer gave me less than £2000.

Best wishes,

Steve

I'm wondering which lower priced DPs you have tried and rejected. Not arguing to buy something different but I'm wondering what I'd miss by practicing on (say) a Roland PHA-II based DP. Of course it is not the same, but a Kawai grand piano would not be the same as the Steinways either. I wonder how close the AG is?

Most every week I get to play in a Kawai digital and then walk a few feet to a Kawai grand. They are different pianos with very different actions but I don't see the time spent on the DP as wasted.

Thank you all for the excellent comments and advice. I will go try out the GT2, sounds like it's pretty close action-wise to the Avantgrands. My knowledge/experience of DP's is very limited. I recently tried Kawai CE200 and CA 91, and an AG N3. Could not find any other Kawais. I thought the N3 was far superior both in terms of action and sound (using headphones). I am planning on going to Sam Ash to see if they have any Rolands with PHA-II or III. I have only been able to identify very few places in NYC to go try digital pianos! Any advice here?

Guitar Center has a number of stage pianos. (Ten years ago I bought a Yamaha P-80 at a Guitar Center in New Jersey.) Steinway Hall on 57th Street has had Roland digitals (the console-type models) in the past, and they may still have them. I've not seen a V-piano in the flesh yet.

Mr Binks - please let us know how you get on, I'm curious to hear your thoughts.