has to be Schubert's tiresome Impromptus, D899.

What is it with Schubert? He cannot do anything wrong? The first Impromptu chases its tail in a rather embarrassing manner, the second Impromptu is a funny attempt at an etude, the third Impromptu tries so hard to be sublime, and the forth tries to be unique -we're experimenting with Ab minor- but ultimately it's tiresomely predictable.

Schubert wrote a lot of music which is demonstrably superior... I just don't think the D899 represents him as his best. Comments?

Tell us you're kidding.

There's no accounting for taste. I don't think you can get more boring than 4'33", at any rate...unless you write a "4 hours and 33 minutes".

As McEnroe said...

"You cannot be serious!"

I got my biggest ovation ever for that piece.
Which of course isn't saying much.

But, it's high art is it not? Actually, I agree. A complete waste of bandwidth.

Seriously? Cool! It's a joke between me and my teacher. Whenever she asks me what I want to perform for a recital, I always reply with 4'33". I've never been allowed to yet! One of these days she ought to let me.

(BTW.......I shortened it to 30 seconds.
And I divided it into movements.)

To approach the OP seriously (or try to).....

In truth, many people feel that way about much Schubert, especially the longer works. If you catch me in a certain mood, I might even say that about the great posthumous B-flat major Sonata. It's great, but it can be borderline 'boring,' even (IMO) with a great performance. (Especially if the dreaded repeat is taken in the 1st movement.)

I find it harder to say anything like that about the shorter Schubert works, although to tell the truth I might almost say it about that 1st impromptu (the C minor). It's the least performed of this set, and I think of all the Schubert impromptus altogether, and IMO with good reason.

P.S. About "repeats" in general: It's a big subject for debate, and most serious musicians usually seem to say "take the repeats." I think that if we polled audiences, the opinion would be almost unanimous -- on the other side.

I'm half hoping this will hijack the thread. Maybe better to argue about repeats than whether Schubert's impromptus are the most boring music on the planet.

ahh that kinda reminds me since I'm still working on Mozart's twinkle twinkle little star 12 variations. Every one of them has a repeat and well, I don't repeat them and the vids on youtube that I've seen on the 12 variations don't repeat all of them over either. Only a few vids on utube seem to play exactly as Mozart has it with all 12 repeating after eachother. I just find it kind of pointless to go through all the repeats again playing the exact same thing but maybe there's a point? :)Oh and sorry, never listened much to Schubert so can't help on that one :P

A few years ago, a friend played that in an amateur competition. As it happened, not only did she play all the repeats, she also took a very slow tempo, so she ran way over the time limit. The judges stopped her. And the director of the event was heard muttering, "Yeah, we don't need to hear every variation of Twinkle Twinkle Little Star......"

Alright you guys! I have an Easter service to play in a matter of hours, and I'm pissed off at Schubert. Christ has not quite risen yet.

But I am assured of a wonderful lunch after my Anglican service... yes, I will have a Bloody Mary...

Aha!! The root of the problem!!!!

aww I actually like all 12 variations but I wouldn't like to repeat all of them and most people play them fairly quickly so the song is like 5 and a half mins or so. Not too bad I would think :P

So now Schubert's silly and idiotic 'Introduction & Variations' for flute and piano are now considered great music? Who besides yours truly has actually suffered through this nonsense?

What utter bilge. I hated every moment of it. Terrible music, if Schubert's name were not attached to it, would anyone give it anything other than a miss? Face it: Schubert bombed out. He was too busy writing too much music, that was his problem.

Over and out. Happy Easter!

Sadly, I'm not familiar with a whole lot of Schubert's music. What I have listened to I like, but nothing that really stands out to me (solo piano, that is), except the G flat Impromptu. I don't get tired of that piece.

Honestly, I'm not all that crazy about Schubert. The great Bflat sonata is, however, without a doubt, a masterpiece. I also love the little A major sonata. The impromptus? I could probably take them, or leave them, though I did play the Eflat (899/2) for an encore once.

Not good enough for the printed program, eh?

(IMO it's a great piece as an encore or for the printed program.)

Haha. It does, actually, make a great encore. They're not "bad" works, at all (the impromptus, that is), but they don't really grab me. Some of the sonatas have their moments, but then, wow, he comes up with the Bflat and you're left wondering what else he'd been hiding up his sleeve.

Is schubert really that bad? lol I have never played any of his works so I wouldn't know but from the sounds of it, he's not all that great like Mozart, Chopin, Beethoven etc :P

No, I don't find him as great as Beethoven or Chopin. But he's still a great composer, and very important.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8YFX-XQLToE !!

You should have learned Op. 90 No. 4. Bet you could win a competition with that!



Sorry, I just couldn't resist.

Thank you.. I hate Schubert.. Let the bashing begin. (Or not.. you won't win)

Except Arpeggione - love that piece! And very rarely some songs. And I feel I can say that because I've played tons of Schubert when I was young and I won a Schubert competition in Europe many years ago.. hahhahah.

Just speaking personally, I don't really see much point in trashing music which so many people (including me) hold so dear. Just ignore it if you don't like it, and start a thread about Liszt, Wagner or Elgar instead.

Nice job.......I love in-jokes.

So, it's ok to trash Liszt, Wagner, or Elgar? Just curious.

I wasn't suggesting anyone trash Liszt, Wagner or Elgar. I was suggesting argerichfan start a thread about music he actually likes, and those three composers would be sure to appear in such a thread.

By the way, argerichfan, ladypayne was talking about the Mozart twinkle variations, not the Schubert Trockne Blumen ones.

Taking a grain of salt with argerichfan's hyperbolic "most BORING music on the planet," I just can't go that far with respect to these pieces. I've played all four the of D899 Impromptus and not only have I enjoyed performing three of them, I often return to them and play them for pleasure. They have their repetitious moments, granted, but the better, lyrical, truly Schubertian moments in them make them worth while pieces, in my opinion.

Of course, it's good that we all don't like the same things, and while I agree these are not the greatest of Schubert's output, they don't bore me - except, perhaps, when not well played by someone else!

In that respect, Jason may be right; they don't stand up to mediocre performances!

Regards,

May I commit another sacrilege (or pehaps, 2 or 3? )? I found the sequence of 3 minuets from Bach's Overture in G Minor - BWV 822 quite boring, I refuse to learn them when my teacher asked me to do so... The third I liked, but the other 2, particularly the 2nd, are annoying, and the 3 together is torture. But Bach I love, perhaps this is just temporary "bad taste" of mine.

Someone have opened a thread about Sorabji's fugues. The first I've listened sounds like a computer algorithm. I'm sorry to say but this is not music at all.

http://www.davetubaking.com/resources/Fuga+A+Quattro+Soggetti+-+Dux+alter.mp3

There is too much good music to concern oneself about music you do not like.

Jason, how a propos! I have just come back from an evening of the most boring "piano music" ever invented. It was one of those social obligations that I had to show up for (long story). The evening turned into an opportunity for an intimate study of the intricate details of persian rug designs. Staring at the rug was all I could do to avoid turning insane. The "man of the house" sat at the piano six minutes after greeting us into his home and started ripping into "atmospheric music" pieces. A slurry of overpedaled musical slurpees come to mind. It made me yearn for physical torture as a way out. Wifey was bringing him his wine glass to sip from while he tore into the Steinway. And no he was not improvising new agedly. Somebody apparently wrote the crappy stuff. Syrupy Schubert impromptus would sound fabulously invigorating in comparison. I know that is not what you have in mind when you talk about "music", boring or not, but you gave me an opportunity to vent! The only good thing about it is the feeling that I have now paid penance for all my digressions past and future, and I am ready for Easter morning..

Agreed.

The C minor does have a few lovely moments, but is so long-winded. The Eb is semi-charming but disposable. You summed up the G-flat perfectly. The Ab, nice, but I've had better.

-Daniel

So you aren't really bashing Schubert - just these four Impromptus.

With the exception of the G-flat Major (which I think IS a sublime work when played well) I agree that the others can wear a little thin due to overexposure - and I agree that Schubert wrote other works for solo piano which are more innovative and interesting (Wanderer Fantasy, the sonatas, Impromptus and Moments Musicals, etc.) not to mention his lieder, symphonies, choral works, chamber music, etc.

I strongly disagree with those posters who state that Schubert is a "lesser" composer than Mozart, Beethoven or Chopin. His work occupies a unique niche in music history, is distinctly his own from a stylistic standpoint, and still moves us deeply today. Such an amazing output for someone who died so young.

Interesting aside fan (re: Schubert),

Whenever I find myself at a loss as to the piece of distantly Beethoven music heard over the radio ... it’s always by Schubert ... a sort of watered-down LB ... besides getting certain keyboard works of his under the fingers such as Hark, Hark the Lark, The Trout and one of his Impromptus ... I find myself having difficulty wanting to delve deeper.

The Unfinished Symphony however, is another ball of chalk.

PS Interestingly, in the adjacent thread on Styles, nobody has as yet made mention of Schubert (instantly recognizable style) ... however, he finds himself in the good company of Handel, Mendelssohn and Haydn ... with no takers.

True, unless you are interested in understanding more about why you don't like it. And trying to understand what it is about it that someone else does like (because if no one at all liked it, chances are you wouldn't know about it and wouldn't be given the opportunity to hear it).

Once in a while, I've found that to be a useful and ear-opening exercise. There's sure a lot more music I do like today, than there would be if I had never challenged myself to get past my initial dislike. I think that's a good thing.

Agree with wr. It is particularly so, for me, in the case of contemporary classical music. I have recently experienced this ear- (and mind) opening exercise when I listened to some compositions by Thomas Ades.

Hehe, the first movement of the trout quintet is one of my all time favorite chamber works. So catchy!

Sad.

As a listener, Schubert is one of the handful of composers I love and keep returning to again and again, especially his chamber music and lieder. (The others include Bach, Beethoven, Messiaen, Shostakovich, Mahler, etc.)

But then many contributors to this forum revere Chopin whereas his music most definitely passes me by.

Thanks for the comments. I started the thread after hearing a very boring performance of the Schubert (I fault the pianist more than anything else), and was amusing myself before getting ready to play for an Easter service.

Things went quite well, btw.

I bet yo like a lot of the Schubert-Liszt song transcriptions.

The D899 Impromptus are in my opinion, amongst the absolute jewels of all literature for the piano.

For me - sorry - it doesn't get much more "boring" than - most of - JSB. De riguer for technique and interesting from an historical viewpoint but, to be honest, I'd rather watch paint dry.

By JSB, of course, you do refer to, Joe Sure Blows, because, otherwise, you would be guilty of blasphemy. =p

...yes, of course that's the "JSB" I'm talking about I guess you're not too keen on him either!

Ah, Joe, no, I'm not to keen on, but, Johann Sebastian Bach, is God.

Anyone mentioned Einaudi, I haven't bothered to read the whole thread but someone must have mentioned his music. Fits the title of this thread like a glove.

Chopin minute waltz has to be among the most boring music, and every time i hear it, i want to run away...

don't think anybody mentioned Einaudi. I personally like most of his music but he is repetitive in a lot of his music which can get a little boring at times.

Methinks that "atmospheric music" I was stuck listening to last night (see post above) is Einaudi-esque, if not the real thing.

Please! Don't let me jinx this thread by making the following comment. In light of recent threads - and some not so recent, I guess - it is disarmingly refreshing to read differing points of view and opinions on music and composers without rancor, invective or name-calling.

A very Happy Easter to all of who who celebrate it!

Regards,

Joyeuses Pâques to you too. But where do you detect rancor, invective and name-calling?

Not in this thread, certainly. I'm not about to spoil a lovely day by digging up past spats, fights and battles.

Regards,

Ah I see. You meant it as a general statement. Agreed. .
Although I do miss the action sometimes if things get quiet for long..

It appears you two are suffering from the syndrome known as codafugaphobia. Help is available.

Don't panic; it will be over in a minute!

Per BTB - "Whenever I find myself at a loss as to the piece of distantly Beethoven music heard over the radio ... it’s always by Schubert ... a sort of watered-down LB ... besides getting certain keyboard works of his under the fingers such as Hark, Hark the Lark, The Trout and one of his Impromptus ... I find myself having difficulty wanting to delve deeper."
_________________________________________________________

You owe it to yourself to try !!

Thanks for that. I'll see what I can do!

Well I certainly celebrate Easter. (And I got paid nicely for that church service. )

I don't think there was a serious problem here. It was more of a learning experience. I was just frustrated by a performance which caused me to question Schubert's genius. This does happen: I've heard performances of Wagner operas which have disappointed me so much.

But think too, of the great Franz Liszt: hard to think of another composer who can be so sabotaged by inept performances.

it's no cure, i think!

btw, i got bored learning Schubert Impromptu in Gb major before and never seemed to be able to finish it, and finally my teacher told me to drop it. but maybe it's not as boring as that minute waltz, i guess.

My thanks to carey from Phoenix for suggesting more than a cursory study of the works of Schubert ... but as the grand old saying goes ... you can lead a horse to water but ...

Good to hear that fan made a lot of lolly doing his accompanying stint at the Easter service ... wonder if Schubert’s Ave Maria ascended the rafters?

PS Kind regards to Jim Webb for his "By the Time I Get to Phoenix" ... which has got nothing to do with the price of cheese ... sorry chaps.

I thought the most boring music on the planet was compositions by Philip Glass

Philip Glass gave a recital of (his?) piano music here this past Saturday. I don't know what he played because I didn't go. I wonder if I missed a stellar opportunity to hear one of the great composers of our time - or not?

Regards,

Someone gave me a CD of his, needless to say it was very repetitious. It just didn't speak to me.

LOL, that was the first thing I thought of when I read the title of this thread. The next thing was Yanni.

I love a lot of Schubert: the late sonatas, the quintet, the piano trios. But my single favorite Schubert piece is the Gb impromptu. To each his own.

The Eb impromptu holds a specific, personal, intense symbolic meaning for me: It was in trying to play this piece, teeth gritted, arm tensed and determined to play it fast no matter what, that I injured my arm 10 years ago. One day, perhaps, with proper guidance, when I've re-developed my technique with supple, smooth control, I will learn it the right away.

-Jason

Yes, Schubert's music requires definite musical skills to pull off since there is a lot of repetition. Schumann's music is very similar in this respect. There is nothing and I mean NOTHING in the world worse then sitting through an unimaginative performance of Kreisleriana. It is one of those pieces (as are many of the Schubert sonatas) that needs an inspired, absolutely first class interpretation. Anything less is just disastrous.

I quickly checked if someone had mentioned it because I wanted to mention it myself... It IS boring...

Boring = new age/minimalist

Cage just gave me an idea for a painting....

Minimalist painting has been done. This beauty cost my government 1.8 million.

By no means does new age equate with minimalism !

-Jason

The last time I heard any Yanni I fell asleep so quickly that I don't recall if it was boring or not.

Well yes and no- though I basically understand where you're coming from. When I was a student I saw a performance of Satyagraha. I fully admit I wasn't expecting to like it, but somehow it worked. It had a cumulative affect on me which is hard to describe, though I don't know that it could have worked a second time for me.

What has worked for me, however, is Glass's soundtrack to Powaqqatsi. I cannot recommend this music highly enough, and if you think you will never like Glass, then please give this a try!

I bought a used CD of his because someone here at PW kept raving about him. It had some lovely moments but, as you say, it was very repetitious. He's off my list.

Schubert - I run hot and cold. I'm very fond of his 5th Symphony and you can't beat the Fantasie in F minor for 4 hands - very poignant. I love Impromptu #3 opus 90. Much of the rest: yawn.

When I was in high school in the early 1960s, my folks gave me an Angel recording of Richter playing the Wanderer Fantasy and the A Major Sonata Opus 120. Absolutely beautiful performances of two great piano compositions. Almost 50 years later I still have that LP - and I've listened to it hundreds of times (scratches and all). Richter's interpretations of these works made an indelible impression on me...and inspired me to further pursue my piano studies in college. Ten years later I played the Fantasy myself in recital (a personal goal).

All of the great composers wrote occasional "clunkers" - but when they struck gold....WOW !!!

Well I came to my present devotion to Schubert rather late (except for the Lieder - those I've always loved), within the last 15 years or so. But the string quintet? The late sonatas? Winterreise? Boring??? Very sad.

[edit to add:]carey - ah, that Richter recording of the Wanderer!!

I was thinking of a BLANK canvas.... Just kidding... But who knows, maybe this has really already been done too. Nothing surprises me more these days....

It was done long ago, in 1951, by Robert Rauschenberg. Rauschenberg's "White" paintings were a catalyst for Cage to write his famous piece.

Kyle Gann's new book on 4'33" came out just a couple of weeks ago, and it looks interesting.

My government did the same thing about 30 years ago with this painting that cost $1 million dollars, and everyone thought they were crazy. The papers had a field day talking about the excess of the government and the national gallery. The painting in question was once called Blue Poles by a fellow named Jackson Pollock. As it turns out the piece is probably worth in excess of $60 million dollars, and it is a stunning piece, which I was fortunate enough to see again on the weekend. All in all, I think that your government could well have made a wise investment!

M

AND disgusting? Try anything by Ornette Coleman. He makes my colon clench. And then twice over because he has actually sold albums without bothering to compose a melody!

Now, now- tut tut! Coleman has been an extremely influential saxophonist, yet I'll be the first to admit that his music isn't for everyone. Sometimes I just don't 'get' where he's coming from, but if the time and mood are right... wow.

That's funny. And what does composing a melody have to do with anything, anyway?

I don't know much of Coleman's output, but a couple of videos of him on YouTube that I came across were so exciting and inspiring to me that I started thinking of trying to compose some music (classical, not jazz) that was directly influenced by what he and his band were doing.

Oh, Ornette Coleman is fantastic. His album Song X (with Pat Metheny) was very influential to me.

One thing I've learned on this forum: someone saying "I really like X" is more useful, and carries more information, than someone saying "I really don't like X". It makes sense, because we usually know a lot more about what we like than what we don't like.

-Jason

Man if you don't like Ornette, try Cecil Taylor. I shudder to think how your ears will react to that!

I googled that painting and it looks considerably more complicated than a huge red stripe. Well, maybe some artists can enlighten me. But IMO the only reason why our red stripe would ever appreciate would be the notoriety that it got from the amount of money we spent on it. There's even a book published about it.

The equivalent in musical terms would be charging everyone full price tickets to hear Murray Perahia, and then he sits down and plays 4'33" and leaves. No encore. Sure, it's a famous artist and all...but it's still just a red stripe.

Fortunately, that will never happen and not just because it's a bit far-fetched, but because Perahia doesn't/won't play anything much more "contemporary" than Bartok.

I have met Mr. Perahia (he looks quite different than his album covers- he could use a bit of a fashion make-over) and he struck me as a very humble, honest man. He simply plays music which he finds most congenial and conducive to his immense talent. (A CD some years back of Franck and Liszt suggested that he was experimenting. It wasn't a great CD, IMO.)

Fortunately there are pianists who are more adventurous, and we are all the more richer for that.

Do you remember when some contemporary composer (and I think she was female!) got all bent out of shape when Horowitz had the nerve to programme a Clementi sonata? She wondered why Horowitz was ignoring the music of the present, something along those lines. Horowitz most likely ignored the assault. He knew what he could 'rewrite' best!

Yeah, I've met him (twice) and played for him as well. It was one of the most memorable experiences I've ever had. I had no way of telling if he was honest, or humble, but he's long been one of my very favorite pianists. I have that CD, by the way and I love it (especially his Mephisto).