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#1622597 - 02/18/11 01:25 AM Re: New Estonia 7'4 grand [Re: PianoWorksATL]
turandot Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/27/07
Posts: 7177
Loc: torrance, CA
That piano sounds splendid, Sam.
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The fate of the modern wartime soldier

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#1622615 - 02/18/11 02:01 AM Re: New Estonia 7'4 grand [Re: turandot]
faulhorn Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/24/05
Posts: 107
I believe that the NAMM 7'4" Estonia was sold to California. Anyone played it in the 'natural' environment in its current location?

F

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#1622805 - 02/18/11 10:09 AM Re: New Estonia 7'4 grand [Re: Norbert]
TX-Dennis Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/09/05
Posts: 4126
Loc: Texas
Impressive sounding instrument.
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Dennis

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#1622812 - 02/18/11 10:15 AM Re: New Estonia 7'4 grand [Re: TX-Dennis]
Keith D Kerman Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/12/03
Posts: 3316
Loc: Gaithersburg, MD (Washington D...
Nice job, Sam.

For those wondering, the terrific music being played is Liszt's sonata in B min.

If ever there was a piece of music sufficient to test a piano, the Liszt Sonata would be it.

I'm sure that was Liszt's intention when he composed it. smile
_________________________
Keith D Kerman
PianoCraft
Rebuilding & Sales of vintage and pre-owned Steinway and Mason & Hamlin
New Steingraeber, Estonia, Charles R. Walter, Brodmann, Feurich
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#1622830 - 02/18/11 10:37 AM Re: New Estonia 7'4 grand [Re: Rich Galassini]
pianoloverus Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/29/01
Posts: 19280
Loc: New York City
Originally Posted By: Rich Galassini

Very nice even without the finish. What style legs are those?

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#1622886 - 02/18/11 11:51 AM Re: New Estonia 7'4 grand [Re: pianoloverus]
PianoWorksATL Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/19/09
Posts: 2705
Loc: Atlanta, GA
Originally Posted By: pianoloverus
Very nice even without the finish. What style legs are those?
We call those gate legs. grin It kinda gives the piano that harpsichord look. wink
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Sam Bennett
PianoWorks - Atlanta Piano Dealer
Bösendorfer, Estonia, Seiler, Grotrian, Weber & Hailun
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#1622893 - 02/18/11 12:06 PM Re: New Estonia 7'4 grand [Re: Norbert]
apple* Offline


Registered: 01/01/03
Posts: 19862
Loc: Kansas
sawhorse legs
_________________________
accompanist/organist.. a non-MTNA teacher to a few

love and peace, Ă•un (apple in Estonian)

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#1622907 - 02/18/11 12:31 PM Re: New Estonia 7'4 grand [Re: Norbert]
Norbert Offline
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Registered: 07/03/01
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Loc: Surrey, B.C.
The 7'4 grand was in the making for several years but factory chose not to introduce until it was deemed perfect.

Incidentally I brought up German designer Lothar Thomma who inspected piano for some time. Very impressed.

What signifies Estonia is not just someone making another piano, but someone reaching for the top.

Eager when the first ones will become available.

Norbert
_________________________
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Greater Vancouver B.C. piano dealers for : C.Sauter, Estonia, Brodmann, Ritmuller
604-951-8642

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#1623365 - 02/19/11 12:42 AM Re: New Estonia 7'4 grand [Re: PianoWorksATL]
Dara Offline
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Registered: 06/18/09
Posts: 1029
Loc: west coast island, canada
Wonderful sounding piano and Liszt piece as played by Indrek Laul.

That's a nice quality recording Sam.
Were you using one of the portable handheld recorders, recorder from your camera, or more professional gear? Just curious.

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#1623693 - 02/19/11 02:10 PM Re: New Estonia 7'4 grand [Re: Norbert]
PianoWorksATL Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/19/09
Posts: 2705
Loc: Atlanta, GA
Thank you. It was a simple, inexpensive set up + much practice getting the most out of it. I was really surprised it turned out that well given the environment.
_________________________
Sam Bennett
PianoWorks - Atlanta Piano Dealer
Bösendorfer, Estonia, Seiler, Grotrian, Weber & Hailun
Pre-Owned: Yamaha, Kawai, Steinway & other fine pianos
Full Restoration Shop
www.PianoWorks.com
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#1623862 - 02/19/11 07:17 PM Re: New Estonia 7'4 grand [Re: PianoWorksATL]
turandot Offline
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Registered: 01/27/07
Posts: 7177
Loc: torrance, CA
Well it does sound splendid Sam, and like you say, surprisingly good considering the noisy environment.

However, just to be totally unfair to piano, performer, and recording quality, and to put into perspective the comment that the B minor is one of the sternest tests of a piano imaginable (which it is in total, but not in a snippet), and finally to measure the piano against the spin I keep hearing that Estonia would be category 1 if not for the low price smile ), here is Economou's performance of the Lizst B minor on a a Hamburg Steinway before his tragic death.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hcPdaG3xXTI

Note: For those who like it, the entire performance can be heard in three links.
_________________________
Will Johnny Come Marching Home?
The fate of the modern wartime soldier

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#1623910 - 02/19/11 08:45 PM Re: New Estonia 7'4 grand [Re: turandot]
jazzyprof Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/30/04
Posts: 2623
Loc: Ann Arbor, MI
Originally Posted By: turandot
and finally to measure the piano against the spin I keep hearing that Estonia would be category 1 if not for the low price smile )

Call it what you will, but I got to play the Estonia 225 at NAMM and I preferred it to the Fazioli 228 in the next booth and the Bosendorfer 225 across the street! It is an impressive instrument. smile But of course, for this class of instruments it boils down to taste.
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"Playing the piano is my greatest joy...period."......JP

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#1624000 - 02/20/11 12:19 AM Re: New Estonia 7'4 grand [Re: jazzyprof]
turandot Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/27/07
Posts: 7177
Loc: torrance, CA
Originally Posted By: jazzyprof
Originally Posted By: turandot
and finally to measure the piano against the spin I keep hearing that Estonia would be category 1 if not for the low price smile )

Call it what you will, but I got to play the Estonia 225 at NAMM and I preferred it to the Fazioli 228 in the next booth and the Bosendorfer 225 across the street! It is an impressive instrument. smile But of course, for this class of instruments it boils down to taste.


Jazzyprof,

I really don't know what to say here. The quote you excerpted reiterated my earlier comment that the piano sounded splendid. I believe I was the first to respond to Sam's youtube link. "Splendid" seems pretty good to me, but somehow such comments never seem to be enough when messing with the Estonia lobby here. smile

I also said in the post you excerpted that the comparison of a trade show piano wide open for every Tom, Dick and Harriet to play on, and recorded in a very trying acoustic environment to a concert-prepped Hamburg Steinway concert grand professionally miked for recording was unfair, so you might add that into the "Call it what you will" reference.

I made the post because I don't think that the challenges to a piano that are definitely present in the Lizst B Minor were present in the snippet submitted here, and that the inference by an Estonia dealer that that Estonia passed a stern test based on that snippet was bogus. Those challenges can only be anallyzed from a fuller hearing of that particular work on a piano, a hearing that brings to light the extremes of dynamic range called for (among other things).

As to your preference for the Estonia over the Bosie or the Faz, say what you will. grin I don't know what you were playing, but my impression is that there is a lot of classical lit that would reveal the strengths of those two pianos, but that that lit does not include the Lizst B Minor. I've never heard a live or recorded performance of the B Minor on either a Bosie 225 or a Faz 228. It would be interesting, a matter of the meat on the bone versus the exquisite character of the bone itself.
_________________________
Will Johnny Come Marching Home?
The fate of the modern wartime soldier

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#1624297 - 02/20/11 12:25 PM Re: New Estonia 7'4 grand [Re: turandot]
Keith D Kerman Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/12/03
Posts: 3316
Loc: Gaithersburg, MD (Washington D...
Originally Posted By: turandot

I made the post because I don't think that the challenges to a piano that are definitely present in the Lizst B Minor were present in the snippet submitted here, and that the inference by an Estonia dealer that that Estonia passed a stern test based on that snippet was bogus.


Just to be perfectly clear, I generally agree with this statement. I hope that you are not saying that I inferred that the Estonia 225 passed some stern test based on Sam's recording. I couldn't figure out if you were referring to my post or someone elses'.
_________________________
Keith D Kerman
PianoCraft
Rebuilding & Sales of vintage and pre-owned Steinway and Mason & Hamlin
New Steingraeber, Estonia, Charles R. Walter, Brodmann, Feurich
www.pianocraft.net
http://www.youtube.com/user/pianocraftchannel/videos

keith@pianocraft.net 888-840-5460

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#1624377 - 02/20/11 01:36 PM Re: New Estonia 7'4 grand [Re: Norbert]
Norbert Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/03/01
Posts: 14138
Loc: Surrey, B.C.
What is forgotten is that there were a large group of people playing this piano during NAMM who tried this piano at length and had also something to say after.

This was particularly interesting as Estonia was placed right besides Fazioli during the show.

It was the statements and observation of those including a number of competitors [Steve Cohen..] and even Lothar Thomma who still ring in my ears.

From my recollection, there weren't many ifs and buts.

Of course I wouldn't dare to even indicate any more for fear of piano Taliban raising its ugly,cowardly head again...

Norbert wink
_________________________
www.heritagepianos.com
Greater Vancouver B.C. piano dealers for : C.Sauter, Estonia, Brodmann, Ritmuller
604-951-8642

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#1624388 - 02/20/11 01:51 PM Re: New Estonia 7'4 grand [Re: Norbert]
Steve Cohen Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/26/01
Posts: 10471
Loc: Maryland/DC/No. VA
I spent a good deal of time at the Estonia booth and listened to many who evaluated the new 7'4". The comments were universally positive. I would go so far as to say it was "acclaimed"...and deservedly so.

I also had the pleasure of going to dinner with Indrek the two nights before the show opened to dealers. The first night is was just Indrek and me, eating ribs at Tony Roma's. The second night Larry joined us.

Indrek is every bit the delight as others have described.
_________________________
Piano Industry Consultant- http://www.linkedin.com/pub/steve-cohen/6/b92/b80

Consultant & Contributing Editor - Acoustic & Digital Piano Buyer

Jasons Music
Maryland/DC/No. VA
Since 1937.

www.jasonsmusic.com
My postings, unless stated otherwise, are my personal opinions, not those of my clients.

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#1624414 - 02/20/11 02:17 PM Re: New Estonia 7'4 grand [Re: Norbert]
turandot Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/27/07
Posts: 7177
Loc: torrance, CA
Originally Posted By: Norbert
What is forgotten is that there were a large group of people playing this piano during NAMM who tried this piano at length and had also something to say after.

This was particularly interesting as Estonia was placed right besides Fazioli during the show.

It was the statements and observation of those including a number of competitors [Steve Cohen..] and even Lothar Thomma who still ring in my ears.


Originally Posted By: Steve Cohen
I spent a good deal of time at the Estonia booth and listened to many who evaluated the new 7'4". The comments were universally positive. I would go so far as to say it was "acclaimed"...and deservedly so.

I also had the pleasure of going to dinner with Indrek the two nights before the show opened to dealers. The first night is was just Indrek and me, eating ribs at Tony Roma's. The second night Larry joined us.

Indrek is every bit the delight as others have described


Whil all of this is undoubtedly delightful, and camaraderie has its points (and perks! grin ) it is interesting to see how what's important to our retailrr brethren may be of no consequence to consumers with ears and fingers of their own.

Many of us have only NAMM sound clips to go on. A lot of those clips are pretty useless because of the background noise and other issues. Sam's clip was the best IMO. The piano sounded splendid...sweet lyrical treble, alluring tonal qualities. But based on the smaller Estonias that's hardly a surprise. I mean.... who would expect that Indrek Laul would travel to NAMM to lay an egg? laugh

For us consumers who have ears, fingers, and confidence in our powers of evaluation (not our taste -- that's different), we should not factor in the nice guy variable any more than we should factor in the Tony Roma ribs. At some point we'll get a chance to size up one of the new Estonias (unless Ori devoours whole consignments before they reach their intended destination.

(Easy, Ori! It's a joke.)
_________________________
Will Johnny Come Marching Home?
The fate of the modern wartime soldier

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#1624419 - 02/20/11 02:25 PM Re: New Estonia 7'4 grand [Re: Norbert]
Norbert Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/03/01
Posts: 14138
Loc: Surrey, B.C.
Quote:
For us consumers who have ears, fingers, and confidence in our powers of evaluation (not our taste -- that's different), we should not factor in the nice guy variable any more than we should factor in the Tony Roma ribs


Please count under 'consumers' also some dealers roaming the [show] land....

And since my wife is world's best cook, going out to dinner was of less interest to me anyways. Staying right besides Tony Roma I must admit however, their ribs are indeed very good!

Norbert thumb
_________________________
www.heritagepianos.com
Greater Vancouver B.C. piano dealers for : C.Sauter, Estonia, Brodmann, Ritmuller
604-951-8642

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#1624438 - 02/20/11 02:46 PM Re: New Estonia 7'4 grand [Re: Norbert]
Steve Cohen Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/26/01
Posts: 10471
Loc: Maryland/DC/No. VA
One other factor to consider is that not all potential buyers of pianos play or trust their ability to evaluate the tonality and rsponsiveness of pianos they are considering. Many buy a piano to "grow into".

They often rely on the opinions of others.
_________________________
Piano Industry Consultant- http://www.linkedin.com/pub/steve-cohen/6/b92/b80

Consultant & Contributing Editor - Acoustic & Digital Piano Buyer

Jasons Music
Maryland/DC/No. VA
Since 1937.

www.jasonsmusic.com
My postings, unless stated otherwise, are my personal opinions, not those of my clients.

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#1624441 - 02/20/11 02:50 PM Re: New Estonia 7'4 grand [Re: turandot]
Brent B Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/01/09
Posts: 348
Loc: Western/Central PA
Originally Posted By: turandot


...For us consumers who have ears, fingers, and confidence in our powers of evaluation (not our taste -- that's different), we should not factor in the nice guy variable any more than we should factor in the Tony Roma ribs...



I didn't get the impression from Steve's post that we are supposed to "factor in the nice guy." I thought he was making two separate points...

1. The Estonia 225 was well received at NAMM
2. Indrek Laul is a nice guy.
_________________________
Estonia 190

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#1624456 - 02/20/11 03:02 PM Re: New Estonia 7'4 grand [Re: Steve Cohen]
turandot Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/27/07
Posts: 7177
Loc: torrance, CA
Originally Posted By: Steve Cohen
One other factor to consider is that not all potential buyers of pianos play or trust their ability to evaluate the tonality and rsponsiveness of pianos they are considering. Many buy a piano to "grow into".

They often rely on the opinions of others.


That's scary, Steve. smile

What if they were to think that the ribs in the Estonia were made by Tony Roma? grin
_________________________
Will Johnny Come Marching Home?
The fate of the modern wartime soldier

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#1624466 - 02/20/11 03:08 PM Re: New Estonia 7'4 grand [Re: Keith D Kerman]
turandot Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/27/07
Posts: 7177
Loc: torrance, CA
Originally Posted By: Keith D Kerman
Originally Posted By: turandot

I made the post because I don't think that the challenges to a piano that are definitely present in the Lizst B Minor were present in the snippet submitted here, and that the inference by an Estonia dealer that that Estonia passed a stern test based on that snippet was bogus.


Just to be perfectly clear, I generally agree with this statement. I hope that you are not saying that I inferred that the Estonia 225 passed some stern test based on Sam's recording. I couldn't figure out if you were referring to my post or someone elses'.


Keith,

I just found this post. Guilty as charged.

Yeah, I thought you were inferring something with your comment about the B Minor. I always think of you as a pianist first and a piano retailer second, so I'm glad to know I was wrong.

Let's have a Lizst Sonata in B minor thread sometime. I love that thing to death, but a couple of run throughs as written can put the piano out of tune.
_________________________
Will Johnny Come Marching Home?
The fate of the modern wartime soldier

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#1624508 - 02/20/11 03:55 PM Re: New Estonia 7'4 grand [Re: turandot]
Steve Cohen Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/26/01
Posts: 10471
Loc: Maryland/DC/No. VA
Originally Posted By: turandot
Originally Posted By: Steve Cohen
One other factor to consider is that not all potential buyers of pianos play or trust their ability to evaluate the tonality and rsponsiveness of pianos they are considering. Many buy a piano to "grow into".

They often rely on the opinions of others.


That's scary, Steve. smile

What if they were to think that the ribs in the Estonia were made by Tony Roma? grin


They aren't???

[Actually I must admit...I find Tony Roma's ribs much more "sustaining".]
_________________________
Piano Industry Consultant- http://www.linkedin.com/pub/steve-cohen/6/b92/b80

Consultant & Contributing Editor - Acoustic & Digital Piano Buyer

Jasons Music
Maryland/DC/No. VA
Since 1937.

www.jasonsmusic.com
My postings, unless stated otherwise, are my personal opinions, not those of my clients.

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#1624678 - 02/20/11 07:16 PM Re: New Estonia 7'4 grand [Re: Steve Cohen]
master88er Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/15/07
Posts: 859
Loc: San Francisco Bay Area
Originally Posted By: Steve Cohen


They aren't???

[Actually I must admit...I find Tony Roma's ribs much more "sustaining".]


And exactly what authority is a nice Jewish boy on pork Ribs?
_________________________
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R.KASSMAN, Purveyor of Fine Pianos
Berkeley, CA

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SF Area Dealer: Steingraeber•Grotrian•Sauter•Estonia•Kayserburg•Baldwin•Brodmann•Ritmüller
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#1624919 - 02/21/11 04:22 AM Re: New Estonia 7'4 grand [Re: Norbert]
Bunneh Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/08/08
Posts: 399
Loc: Berlin
This thread combines Estonia pianos with Tony Roma's ribs and is therefore my favorite place in the world!

I wonder when the 225 will show up in Europe, that will probably be another year. And probably 5 years until I get to play one. But then again, I plan to have the house that it would fit into in 10 years at the earliest so that's still plenty of time smile
_________________________
aim for the moon - if you miss, at least you'll be among the stars.

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#1801805 - 12/07/11 01:58 AM Re: New Estonia 7'4 grand [Re: Norbert]
PianoWorksATL Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/19/09
Posts: 2705
Loc: Atlanta, GA
Hello All,

I now have several new recordings of the Estonia L225. I selected 2 short clips from other full performances that are available elsewhere on YouTube. The full versions are better, but the clips are easier to digest. Feel free to kick this can around, but I know several of you are genuinely interested...and I had fun making them. smile Oh, and it's the first time I've used this new recording setup. blush

Earlier today, I also uploaded a clip of our fearless leader, Frank Baxter , taking a break from his current road trip playing a couple of pianos including the L225. cool
_________________________
Sam Bennett
PianoWorks - Atlanta Piano Dealer
Bösendorfer, Estonia, Seiler, Grotrian, Weber & Hailun
Pre-Owned: Yamaha, Kawai, Steinway & other fine pianos
Full Restoration Shop
www.PianoWorks.com
www.youtube.com/PianoWorksAtlanta

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#1801995 - 12/07/11 11:28 AM Re: New Estonia 7'4 grand [Re: PianoWorksATL]
schwammerl Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/16/06
Posts: 2012
Loc: Belgium
Sam,

Visiting your YouTube Channel frequently I noticed the new Estonia videos but not yet the Frank Baxter one: also very nice indeed.

I would recommend everyone to watch the full length videos and preferably to switch to high definition (HD).

schwammerl.

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#1843535 - 02/12/12 10:59 PM Re: New Estonia 7'4 grand [Re: Norbert]
Wound up Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/04/12
Posts: 65
While I do love the Estonia pianos and also I enjoy Norberts posts a bunch,

I saw this on his__ Heritage site:

"""While all of world’s top pianos are very special, the Estonia grand piano offers something unique in that it has not taken part in all too common “louder is better” race, sometimes called “Yamahazation” by most of the current manufacturers of today.""""

It is an explanation (or apology?) of what I find lacking in the Estonias, I wish it was a louder Piano, I still have plans on purchasing one as I think they are great. But next to a Fazioli (for example) it is a noticeable volume sacrifice...

Is there much you can do to raise the SPL of these guys?

Thanks for any consideration,

J

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#1843548 - 02/12/12 11:37 PM Re: New Estonia 7'4 grand [Re: Norbert]
terminaldegree Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/03/06
Posts: 2669
Loc: western Wisconsin
johnkuker,

Are you talking about the new model 7'4" against other pianos of the same size or Estonias in general?

Having played a decent handful of model 190s at this point, I guess what I noticed compared with other good quality pianos of that size was a tone biased towards lyrical beauty and a dynamic range that seems more intended for a home than a hall. The latter trait made the piano a contender for me, but the former didn't work well with the full range or repertoire that I like to play.

I imagine the larger model might provide more of the oomph you desire... if not, there certainly are many louder pianos out there to choose!
_________________________
Pianist, teacher, internet addict.
Piano Review Editor - Acoustic and Digital Piano Buyer
Casio px-200, Bechstein A190 #192939 @ home
Steinway A #585209, B #416809 @ work
Schimmel 130T #339100, on loan

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#1843596 - 02/13/12 01:40 AM Re: New Estonia 7'4 grand [Re: terminaldegree]
Wound up Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/04/12
Posts: 65
Hi, Yeah the 7'4" was the best Estonia I have heard, and You are correct there are other screamers out there__ j

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