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#1410742 - 04/04/10 03:14 PM New Estonia 7'4 grand
Norbert Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/03/01
Posts: 13974
Loc: Surrey, B.C.
Just received notice from Estonia that the new 7'4 semi-concert has been unveiled in factory and was tetsted by a number of pianists including Dr.Laul.

First reviews and reflections were highly complimentary and promising - in true Estonia fashion nothing was hyped or exaggerated.

A new dealer from Luxemberg, offering mostly German pianos described the new piano this way:
Quote:
.. very well balanced, expressive, powerful,nothing needing to be changed.


The piano was completely designed and developed within factory - no outside help was requested or necessary.

As soon as pictures or sound samples of the new 225 grand become available, will try to post them.

The first 4 models have alreays been pre-sold, [ sigh..] - one going to California.

The California piano has been planned to a church that will celebrate their 3 million dollar renovation in southern CA, the first one is planned to the Historic Museum of Estonia in central Tallinn.

These are exciting time for the maker as it is expected to open new and important doors for them.

Hope nobody minds me giving notice of this - a historic event.

Estonia certainly been a long way coming...can't wait!

Norbert


Edited by Norbert (04/04/10 03:28 PM)
_________________________
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Greater Vancouver B.C. piano dealers for : C.Sauter, Estonia, Brodmann, Ritmuller
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#1410744 - 04/04/10 03:17 PM Re: New Estonia 7'4 grand [Re: Norbert]
Mark... Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/27/06
Posts: 4372
Loc: Jersey Shore
So if I trade up from my 2008 190, how much cash will I need? smile

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#1410750 - 04/04/10 03:32 PM Re: New Estonia 7'4 grand [Re: Mark...]
lilylady Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/17/05
Posts: 4974
Loc: boston north
Originally Posted By: Mark...
So if I trade up from my 2008 190, how much cash will I need? smile


Only enough to have it delivered!

thumb
_________________________
"Music gives a soul to the universe, wings to the mind, flight to the imagination, and life to everything."

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#1410757 - 04/04/10 03:58 PM Re: New Estonia 7'4 grand [Re: lilylady]
geraldbrennan Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/14/08
Posts: 77
Loc: ann arbor, mi
Thank you for this, Norbert.
The hole between 6 and 9 was just too big for Estonia to compete. The need for a 7 (even better, 7'4") was a no-brainer, finally addressed.
I must play one.

Gerald Brennan

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#1410758 - 04/04/10 03:59 PM Re: New Estonia 7'4 grand [Re: geraldbrennan]
SeilerFan Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/27/09
Posts: 746
That's an ideal size for a piano. I am looking forward to playing one if my local dealer should stock it in the future.

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#1410764 - 04/04/10 04:10 PM Re: New Estonia 7'4 grand [Re: SeilerFan]
Bart Kinlein Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/14/08
Posts: 715
Loc: Maryland
+1
_________________________
Steinway 1905 model A, rebuild started 2008, completed 2012
Yahama CVP-401
Will somone get my wife off the Steinway so I can play it!

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#1410853 - 04/04/10 06:17 PM Re: New Estonia 7'4 grand [Re: Bart Kinlein]
master88er Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/15/07
Posts: 789
Loc: San Francisco Bay Area
Norbert:

You forgot to mention that the Luxemborg dealer was so impressed that he bought four pianos on the spot!
_________________________
Russell I. Kassman
R.KASSMAN, Purveyor of Fine Pianos
Berkeley, CA

FORMER US Rep.for C.Bechstein

SF Area Dealer: Steingraeber•Grotrian•Sauter•Estonia•Kayserburg•Baldwin•Brodmann•Ritmüller
www.rkassman.com
russell@rkassman.com
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#1410883 - 04/04/10 07:02 PM Re: New Estonia 7'4 grand [Re: master88er]
Norbert Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/03/01
Posts: 13974
Loc: Surrey, B.C.
Quote:
You forgot to mention that the Luxemborg dealer was so impressed that he bought four pianos on the spot!


No, it was the California dealers who did....

Norbert wink
_________________________
www.heritagepianos.com
Greater Vancouver B.C. piano dealers for : C.Sauter, Estonia, Brodmann, Ritmuller
604-951-8642

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#1410888 - 04/04/10 07:16 PM Re: New Estonia 7'4 grand [Re: Norbert]
Mark... Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/27/06
Posts: 4372
Loc: Jersey Shore
My wife's is going to kill me if I trade up... smile

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#1410966 - 04/04/10 08:48 PM Re: New Estonia 7'4 grand [Re: Norbert]
beethoven986 Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/20/09
Posts: 3297
Finally! I have often lamented that there was too big of a gap in the Estonia line. 7'4" is brilliant because this will give customers a better alternative to the Yamaha C7. Now, if only Charles Walter would build something around this size...
_________________________
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M.Mus. Piano Performance & Literature 2011
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#1411150 - 04/05/10 03:04 AM Re: New Estonia 7'4 grand [Re: beethoven986]
hyslopc Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 03/30/10
Posts: 19
Ooooh - interesting, thanks for posting this!

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#1411338 - 04/05/10 11:14 AM Re: New Estonia 7'4 grand [Re: beethoven986]
fingers Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/08/04
Posts: 799
Loc: Westchester, NY
Originally Posted By: beethoven986
Finally! I have often lamented that there was too big of a gap in the Estonia line. 7'4" is brilliant because this will give customers a better alternative to the Yamaha C7. Now, if only Charles Walter would build something around this size...


beethoven986,
Have you played the new 7'4" ?

fingers
_________________________
Playing piano at age 2, it was thought that I was some sort of idiot-savant. As it turns out, I'm just an idiot.

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#1411427 - 04/05/10 01:18 PM Re: New Estonia 7'4 grand [Re: fingers]
beethoven986 Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/20/09
Posts: 3297
No, I haven't seen any Estonias in a long time. But, this new model is a good thing.
_________________________
B.Mus. Piano Performance 2009
M.Mus. Piano Performance & Literature 2011
PTG Associate Member
Certified Dampp-Chaser installer

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#1411497 - 04/05/10 02:24 PM Re: New Estonia 7'4 grand [Re: beethoven986]
Rich Galassini Online   content
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/28/01
Posts: 8977
Loc: Philadelphia/South Jersey
Norbert and I differ in the way we post. I am not sure that it is always best to post information as I learn it or to post partial information or rumors.

I say this because I am intimately familiar with the progress of the 225 and have been following it closely (by email and by phone). Since it is now out on the forum I thought a few older pictures of the piano in process might be nice to see. These pictures date back to before Christmas and early January. The last these pictures were taken while Estonia was awaiting delivery of the first 225 plate:



















I do understand that the piano has been very well received and they are now backordered. I can't wait to play it in person! smile
_________________________
Rich Galassini
Cunningham Piano Co.
Phila, Pa.
Dir. Line (215) 991-0834
rich@cunninghampiano.com
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#1411501 - 04/05/10 02:31 PM Re: New Estonia 7'4 grand [Re: Rich Galassini]
Glenn Treibitz Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/10/05
Posts: 541
Loc: Los Angeles/Burbank
It's already like pulling teeth to get certain Estonia pianos. I would imagine this new piano will make the wait on all pianos even longer. I hope Indrek can up production a bit to compensate.
_________________________
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Hollywood Piano Co. - Est.1928
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1800 MY-PIANO

Grotrian, Mason&Hamlin, Estonia,Schulze Pollmann,Albert Weber,Baldwin,Brodmann,Ritmuller,Weber,Hardman,Roland,Kurzweil, Used Steinway,Yamaha,Kawai

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#1411603 - 04/05/10 04:23 PM Re: New Estonia 7'4 grand [Re: Rich Galassini]
pianoloverus Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/29/01
Posts: 19097
Loc: New York City
Originally Posted By: Rich Galassini
Norbert and I differ in the way we post. I am not sure that it is always best to post information as I learn it or to post partial information or rumors.

I say this because I am intimately familiar with the progress of the 225 and have been following it closely (by email and by phone). Since it is now out on the forum I thought a few older pictures of the piano in process might be nice to see. These pictures date back to before Christmas and early January. The last these pictures were taken while Estonia was awaiting delivery of the first 225 plate:



















I do understand that the piano has been very well received and they are now backordered. I can't wait to play it in person! smile
Posting pictures like that without showing a finished example is PIANO TORTURE!!

(Like my BB lid just dropped on my head.)

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#1411731 - 04/05/10 07:37 PM Re: New Estonia 7'4 grand [Re: Mark...]
Strings & Wood Offline


Gold member until Dec. 2012


Registered: 05/22/08
Posts: 1833
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: Mark...
My wife's is going to kill me if I trade up... smile


I was going to say you only live once, but that somehow seems inappropriate. Instead, I will advise to make sure affairs are in order before playing one. I am expecting the 225 to be really good!
_________________________



Schimmel K213 NWS




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#1411783 - 04/05/10 09:12 PM Re: New Estonia 7'4 grand [Re: Strings & Wood]
Norbert Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/03/01
Posts: 13974
Loc: Surrey, B.C.
Quote:
Norbert and I differ in the way we post. I am not sure that it is always best to post information as I learn it or to post partial information or rumors.


No problem Rich!

14 years ago when we already said then "Estonia is a piano with surprisingly nice tone" - it was also only a 'rumour'.

It certainly was "partial information" - then.

Guilty as charged!!

Norbert wink


Edited by Norbert (04/05/10 09:17 PM)
_________________________
www.heritagepianos.com
Greater Vancouver B.C. piano dealers for : C.Sauter, Estonia, Brodmann, Ritmuller
604-951-8642

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#1411869 - 04/05/10 11:40 PM Re: New Estonia 7'4 grand [Re: Rich Galassini]
SeilerFan Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/27/09
Posts: 746
Originally Posted By: Rich Galassini
Norbert and I differ in the way we post. I am not sure that it is always best to post information as I learn it or to post partial information or rumors.


Rich, I always enjoy your posts. They are extremely knowledgeable and well-composed. They don't beat about the bush but offer solid facts. You also wisely manage to stay away from conflicts and strife on here. I guess that sets you apart from others, particularly the rumor-mongers. There are high-performance dealers, and, well, there are consumer-grade dealers (to speak in Larry Fine's words).

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#1411885 - 04/06/10 12:00 AM Re: New Estonia 7'4 grand [Re: SeilerFan]
Robert 45 Online   content
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/18/06
Posts: 1116
Loc: Auckland New Zealand
Thank you for the photos of the meticulous crafting of this piano. It is a pity that new Estonia pianos are not available in New Zealand. I would love to try one as they receive great acclaim on this forum.

Kia ora! ( a Maori greeting)

Robert.

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#1411950 - 04/06/10 02:17 AM Re: New Estonia 7'4 grand [Re: Robert 45]
Norbert Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/03/01
Posts: 13974
Loc: Surrey, B.C.
Instead of simply discussing a new piano, there are always those who enjoy sliding off into personalities making undue innuendo.

Someone's "style of posting" may very well be different from mine - but it has nothing to to with the news of this new piano.

By the way, the innuendo of me posting 'rumours' or 'partial information' is completely false and certainly uncalled for in the context of this thread.

It's quickly picked up and reinforced by those who happen to have perhaps disagreed with some of my own posts or opinions in the past.

Cheap stuff, not exactly classy...

Sorry to all who are getting distracted by this.

Norbert frown


Edited by Norbert (04/06/10 02:23 AM)
_________________________
www.heritagepianos.com
Greater Vancouver B.C. piano dealers for : C.Sauter, Estonia, Brodmann, Ritmuller
604-951-8642

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#1412013 - 04/06/10 06:14 AM Re: New Estonia 7'4 grand [Re: Norbert]
hyslopc Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 03/30/10
Posts: 19
Norbert - I've appreciated all of your posts that I've read. In general I'd rather read lots of info and then filter as necessary. If someone disagrees with a post, they always have the option of posting their own opinion, or just moving on and ignoring it.

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#1412029 - 04/06/10 07:23 AM Re: New Estonia 7'4 grand [Re: SeilerFan]
schwammerl Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/16/06
Posts: 2011
Loc: Belgium
Quote:
I guess that sets you apart from others, particularly the rumor-mongers.


I really can not see how the original post could be qualified as rumour!

For me this is factual pre-launch information: customers, dealers can test drive (pre order) a new piano that is physically there and ready to be launched. In marketing technical terms this is called the beta-phase.

But perhaps that some prefer reading post-launch information in press releases, glossy brochures of either new models or hyped ugraded models.

At least I do not need a piano forum for that.

schwammerl.

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#1416393 - 04/13/10 11:15 AM Re: New Estonia 7'4 grand [Re: schwammerl]
Bunneh Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/08/08
Posts: 398
Loc: Berlin
need more information! When will it be out? Just how great is it? Will it save the whales?

Well, in all seriousness, this is a piano that has me very excited. Any idea when we can expect those "glossy brochures" and sample pianos to drool over?
_________________________
aim for the moon - if you miss, at least you'll be among the stars.

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#1416451 - 04/13/10 01:01 PM Re: New Estonia 7'4 grand [Re: Bunneh]
Norbert Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/03/01
Posts: 13974
Loc: Surrey, B.C.
Estonia is not in 'glossy brochures' - doesn't exactly suit their style....

Reports so far received indicate this will be a superb instruement - it's not just a 'larger Estonia' but an entirely new piano.

Righ now the raffle is on who will be able to get one of these.

Estonia will exhibit the piano first during next NAMM and will need to secure one of these pianos for themselves as well.

Don't forget it takes a long time to make one of them, as all their other models, these are not exactly mass-produced pianos....

Norbert
_________________________
www.heritagepianos.com
Greater Vancouver B.C. piano dealers for : C.Sauter, Estonia, Brodmann, Ritmuller
604-951-8642

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#1416487 - 04/13/10 02:26 PM Re: New Estonia 7'4 grand [Re: Norbert]
PianoWorksATL Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/19/09
Posts: 2634
Loc: Atlanta, GA
Quote:
Don't forget it takes a long time to make one of them, as all their other models, these are not exactly mass-produced pianos....


Feel free to place your orders! wink
_________________________
Sam Bennett
PianoWorks - Atlanta Piano Dealer
Bösendorfer, Estonia, Seiler, Grotrian, Weber & Hailun
Pre-Owned: Yamaha, Kawai, Steinway & other fine pianos
Full Restoration Shop
www.PianoWorks.com
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#1416530 - 04/13/10 03:33 PM Re: New Estonia 7'4 grand [Re: Norbert]
Brent B Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/01/09
Posts: 348
Loc: Western/Central PA
Originally Posted By: Norbert
Reports so far received indicate this will be a superb instruement - it's not just a 'larger Estonia' but an entirely new piano.




Norbert (or Rich G) -- any idea what features will make this an "entirely new piano???"

And I'm guessing Estonia will use this new model to re-align their pricing structure. That is, price the 225 about 10-15% shy of a Steinway B and adjust the 168 and 190 accordingly???

I suppose we'll soon find out...

Brent
_________________________
Estonia 190

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#1416950 - 04/14/10 09:50 AM Re: New Estonia 7'4 grand [Re: Brent B]
Rich Galassini Online   content
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/28/01
Posts: 8977
Loc: Philadelphia/South Jersey
Originally Posted By: Brent B

Norbert (or Rich G) -- any idea what features will make this an "entirely new piano???"

And I'm guessing Estonia will use this new model to re-align their pricing structure. That is, price the 225 about 10-15% shy of a Steinway B and adjust the 168 and 190 accordingly???

I suppose we'll soon find out...

Brent


Brent,

This piano is a departure for Estonia in that they have never built a piano of this size before. Additionally this is a new scale. String length, bridge placement, soundboard dimensions, etc. - they are all different.

However, every piano has a signature tone and I fully expect to hear the Estonia tone in this new model. I cannot say exactly what Norbert meant in his last post, as we've never had this discussion, but I am sure he will respond with his thoughts. smile

_________________________
Rich Galassini
Cunningham Piano Co.
Phila, Pa.
Dir. Line (215) 991-0834
rich@cunninghampiano.com
Get Cunningham Piano Email Updates

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#1416986 - 04/14/10 10:48 AM Re: New Estonia 7'4 grand [Re: Rich Galassini]
Brent B Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/01/09
Posts: 348
Loc: Western/Central PA
Hi Rich,

Thanks for the response. I hope you'll allow me a few minutes to admire one in your showroom before it flies out the door!

(Perhaps you could use your special powers to arrange a 225 debut performance by Indrek Laul himself at Cunningham Piano!?!?!?!?!?!? grin I'm sure one or two people would show up for that wink )

Brent

_________________________
Estonia 190

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#1417044 - 04/14/10 12:13 PM Re: New Estonia 7'4 grand [Re: Brent B]
Norbert Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/03/01
Posts: 13974
Loc: Surrey, B.C.
The details of a brand new piano cannot be discussed until all the facts are known. Nobody has seen this piano as of yet.

My posted information were verbatim quotes from Dr. Laul who is presently in factory. We are not in competition of "who knows what" at this particular point.

We are all excited about this long planned, new model which is expected to open completely new doors for its maker.

The basic point is that there are few makers who are bringing out new models at this particular time of the economy.

I believe this signifies that Estonia may be in a slightly different spot.

Norbert
_________________________
www.heritagepianos.com
Greater Vancouver B.C. piano dealers for : C.Sauter, Estonia, Brodmann, Ritmuller
604-951-8642

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#1417240 - 04/14/10 03:59 PM Re: New Estonia 7'4 grand [Re: Norbert]
Rich Galassini Online   content
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/28/01
Posts: 8977
Loc: Philadelphia/South Jersey
I absolutely agree, Norbert. Thank you. smile
_________________________
Rich Galassini
Cunningham Piano Co.
Phila, Pa.
Dir. Line (215) 991-0834
rich@cunninghampiano.com
Get Cunningham Piano Email Updates

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#1560971 - 11/19/10 09:05 PM Re: New Estonia 7'4 grand [Re: Norbert]
Coreyp Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/27/10
Posts: 55
Loc: Utah
So any word on the new Estonia grand?

I found this:
Estonia 225 with President of Estonia




Edited by Coreyp (11/19/10 09:29 PM)

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#1561005 - 11/19/10 10:27 PM Re: New Estonia 7'4 grand [Re: Strings & Wood]
Strings & Wood Offline


Gold member until Dec. 2012


Registered: 05/22/08
Posts: 1833
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: Strings & Wood
Originally Posted By: Mark...
My wife's is going to kill me if I trade up... smile


I was going to say you only live once, but that somehow seems inappropriate. Instead, I will advise to make sure affairs are in order before playing one. I am expecting the 225 to be really good!


Bump smile
_________________________



Schimmel K213 NWS




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#1561030 - 11/19/10 11:47 PM Re: New Estonia 7'4 grand [Re: Strings & Wood]
Mark... Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/27/06
Posts: 4372
Loc: Jersey Shore
Originally Posted By: Strings & Wood
Originally Posted By: Strings & Wood
Originally Posted By: Mark...
My wife's is going to kill me if I trade up... smile


I was going to say you only live once, but that somehow seems inappropriate. Instead, I will advise to make sure affairs are in order before playing one. I am expecting the 225 to be really good!


Bump smile


I'm waiting too...but my 190 has been such a problem I'm probably going in another direction.

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#1561072 - 11/20/10 02:36 AM Re: New Estonia 7'4 grand [Re: Coreyp]
schwammerl Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/16/06
Posts: 2011
Loc: Belgium
Most presumably it will be officially presented at the 2011 NAMM, so January 2011.

schwammerl.

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#1561159 - 11/20/10 09:30 AM Re: New Estonia 7'4 grand [Re: Mark...]
jazzyprof Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/30/04
Posts: 2598
Loc: Ann Arbor, MI
Originally Posted By: Mark...

I'm waiting too...but my 190 has been such a problem I'm probably going in another direction.

Your 190 has been a problem? Was it bought new?
_________________________
"Playing the piano is my greatest joy...period."......JP

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#1561162 - 11/20/10 09:43 AM Re: New Estonia 7'4 grand [Re: jazzyprof]
Mark... Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/27/06
Posts: 4372
Loc: Jersey Shore
Originally Posted By: jazzyprof
Originally Posted By: Mark...

I'm waiting too...but my 190 has been such a problem I'm probably going in another direction.

Your 190 has been a problem? Was it bought new?


Yes, most of the strings were replaced because there were kinks in them, but it still sounds poor. It has/had other issues as well. It's just a lemon. When time and money permit I hope to get another piano.

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#1561183 - 11/20/10 10:11 AM Re: New Estonia 7'4 grand [Re: Mark...]
Strings & Wood Offline


Gold member until Dec. 2012


Registered: 05/22/08
Posts: 1833
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: Mark...
Originally Posted By: jazzyprof
Originally Posted By: Mark...

I'm waiting too...but my 190 has been such a problem I'm probably going in another direction.

Your 190 has been a problem? Was it bought new?


Yes, most of the strings were replaced because there were kinks in them, but it still sounds poor. It has/had other issues as well. It's just a lemon. When time and money permit I hope to get another piano.


Will your dealer allow you full value on your 190 to trade up?
_________________________



Schimmel K213 NWS




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#1561184 - 11/20/10 10:20 AM Re: New Estonia 7'4 grand [Re: Strings & Wood]
Mark... Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/27/06
Posts: 4372
Loc: Jersey Shore
Originally Posted By: Strings & Wood
Originally Posted By: Mark...
Originally Posted By: jazzyprof
Originally Posted By: Mark...

I'm waiting too...but my 190 has been such a problem I'm probably going in another direction.

Your 190 has been a problem? Was it bought new?


Yes, most of the strings were replaced because there were kinks in them, but it still sounds poor. It has/had other issues as well. It's just a lemon. When time and money permit I hope to get another piano.


Will your dealer allow you full value on your 190 to trade up?


Not sure, I'm probably going to another dealer anyway.

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#1561206 - 11/20/10 11:04 AM Re: New Estonia 7'4 grand [Re: Mark...]
Coreyp Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/27/10
Posts: 55
Loc: Utah
Originally Posted By: Mark...
Originally Posted By: jazzyprof
Originally Posted By: Mark...

I'm waiting too...but my 190 has been such a problem I'm probably going in another direction.

Your 190 has been a problem? Was it bought new?


Yes, most of the strings were replaced because there were kinks in them, but it still sounds poor. It has/had other issues as well. It's just a lemon. When time and money permit I hope to get another piano.


Wow, definitely a lemon! Sorry to hear that- I would be hesitant to get another Estonia, too if I had problems with one like that, and I would have complained loudly to the dealer who sold it to me. However, I bet you won't have problems like that if you were to try it again. It's unfortunate that I see that your posts are usually very negative about your Estonia, when the majority of posts on the brand (for the last ten years of production) are extremely positive.

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#1561215 - 11/20/10 11:19 AM Re: New Estonia 7'4 grand [Re: Coreyp]
BB Player Offline


Registered: 11/17/06
Posts: 2509
Loc: Not in Texas
Originally Posted By: Coreyp
It's unfortunate that I see that your posts are usually very negative about your Estonia, when the majority of posts on the brand (for the last ten years of production) are extremely positive.


I'd imagine Mark thinks it's a lot more "unfortunate" than you do given that it's his piano that's the lemon.
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#1561218 - 11/20/10 11:28 AM Re: New Estonia 7'4 grand [Re: Mark...]
jazzyprof Offline
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Originally Posted By: Mark...

Yes, most of the strings were replaced because there were kinks in them, but it still sounds poor. It has/had other issues as well. It's just a lemon.

Wow, that really sucks! Did you try to get the dealer to replace the piano with another?
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#1561220 - 11/20/10 11:32 AM Re: New Estonia 7'4 grand [Re: BB Player]
Steve Chandler Online   content
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Originally Posted By: BB Player
Originally Posted By: Coreyp
It's unfortunate that I see that your posts are usually very negative about your Estonia, when the majority of posts on the brand (for the last ten years of production) are extremely positive.


I'd imagine Mark thinks it's a lot more "unfortunate" than you do given that it's his piano that's the lemon.

I experienced a sour string on my 190. Replacing it made all the difference and while the action needs regulation (it's 5 years old and feels a bit heavy) I do enjoy playing it. I've played some newer 190s which felt lighter and quicker and sounded as good or better.

Be that as it may if I'd had many strings on my Estonia that were sour it would have driven me crazy. Given that the cliche says, "Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me," I can quite understand if he's a bit gun shy (at least as regards the Estonia brand).

Having said all that I'm really looking forward to hearing the 7' Estonia, but I'm not sure I'll ever have the opportunity.

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#1561223 - 11/20/10 11:40 AM Re: New Estonia 7'4 grand [Re: jazzyprof]
Mark... Offline
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Originally Posted By: jazzyprof
Originally Posted By: Mark...

Yes, most of the strings were replaced because there were kinks in them, but it still sounds poor. It has/had other issues as well. It's just a lemon.

Wow, that really sucks! Did you try to get the dealer to replace the piano with another?


Intially he did, but my tech and the dealer agreed that the L190s he had at the dealership all had some similar issues with metallic overtones. So we decided to go the string replacement route. A guy in Utah had it done for the same problem and was happy. Mine didn't work as well.

I'm to the point where I just live with beast and deal with it, but look forward when time and money will allow me to get something else. I might have to wait till I retire in about ten years. And although I'm quite the piano hack, I do practice about 2 hours a day, everyday on it.

I just finished the online recital here, and many noticed the problems with my freshly tuned piano.

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#1561228 - 11/20/10 11:52 AM Re: New Estonia 7'4 grand [Re: Norbert]
Rickster Offline


Registered: 03/25/06
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Loc: Georgia, USA
Originally Posted By: Steve Chandler
I experienced a sour string on my 190. Replacing it made all the difference and while the action needs regulation (it's 5 years old and feels a bit heavy) I do enjoy playing it. I've played some newer 190s which felt lighter and quicker and sounded as good or better.


You’d be surprised what a little Protek CLP lubricant on the flanges, powdered Teflon on the shank knuckles, and polishing the tops of the brass cap-stands will do for your action. Next time your tech comes to tune it, ask her/him about it.

I remember reading about a couple of PW members having some problems with their Estonia grand pianos. It’s unfortunate that anyone would get a lemon in any high-end piano, but I suppose it does happen. My thinking is that when you pay a lot of money for a high-end piano, you want it to be perfect, or at least as close to perfect as you can get. You would think they'd be superior in quality to lesser expensive pianos. Maybe my way of thinking is all wrong.

Rick
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#1561230 - 11/20/10 11:57 AM Re: New Estonia 7'4 grand [Re: Mark...]
Fun Offline
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Originally Posted By: Mark...
I just finished the online recital here, and many noticed the problems with my freshly tuned piano.

Mark, is there a web link where we can hear your recital? I'm curious about the problem you have. Thanks!
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#1561232 - 11/20/10 12:02 PM Re: New Estonia 7'4 grand [Re: Norbert]
Norbert Online   content
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I just listened to the piano and can assure it doesn't sound like any Estonia we ever had.

Mark: I pmed you and will do some investigations for you. I was one of the first Estonia dealer and we never had a piano with this type sound.

Sending this recording to cheers things up a bit:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z6pJuktelZE

Norbert


Edited by Norbert (11/20/10 12:04 PM)
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#1561236 - 11/20/10 12:18 PM Re: New Estonia 7'4 grand [Re: Mark...]
jazzyprof Offline
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Originally Posted By: Mark...

I just finished the online recital here, and many noticed the problems with my freshly tuned piano.

Wow, Mark I just listened to your recording and it was clear there was something funny with the bass on the piano. Perhaps you should contact Indrek Laul and send him this video. I don't think he'd want that sound to be representative of a new Estonia.
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#1561237 - 11/20/10 12:23 PM Re: New Estonia 7'4 grand [Re: Norbert]
TX-Dennis Offline
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Here- On the Adult Beginner's Forum recital 20

Recital 20

Mark . . . is number 39 on page 2. His particular Estonia does not sound anything like an Estonia should.


Edited by TX-Dennis (11/20/10 12:26 PM)
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#1561248 - 11/20/10 12:56 PM Re: New Estonia 7'4 grand [Re: Norbert]
Rickster Offline


Registered: 03/25/06
Posts: 8073
Loc: Georgia, USA
Originally Posted By: jazzyprof
Wow, Mark I just listened to your recording and it was clear there was something funny with the bass on the piano. Perhaps you should contact Indrek Laul and send him this video. I don't think he'd want that sound to be representative of a new Estonia.

ditto +1

A little out of tune, but definately an unusual twang. Playing was nice though.

Rick
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#1561266 - 11/20/10 01:36 PM Re: New Estonia 7'4 grand [Re: Norbert]
sophial Offline
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Registered: 04/11/05
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Mark,
that is very odd sounding! I can understand why you are unhappy.

Sophia

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#1561271 - 11/20/10 01:44 PM Re: New Estonia 7'4 grand [Re: Rickster]
Mark... Offline
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Originally Posted By: Rickster
Originally Posted By: jazzyprof
Wow, Mark I just listened to your recording and it was clear there was something funny with the bass on the piano. Perhaps you should contact Indrek Laul and send him this video. I don't think he'd want that sound to be representative of a new Estonia.

ditto +1

A little out of tune, but definately an unusual twang. Playing was nice though.

Rick


It was tuned just a few days prior, but I trust your judgment, I can hear off sounds but generally oblivious to off tuning.

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#1561286 - 11/20/10 02:23 PM Re: New Estonia 7'4 grand [Re: Norbert]
Norbert Online   content
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There seems to be several things going on here.
The tech should definitely have looked at all factors involving seating of strings, hammers, hammer line up,regulation, etc

It may be a day's job but can be done.

I can't believe that this piano can't be brought up to snuff by someone who knows his stuff.

I've seen same or even worse with some of world's finest. One sorry case recently involving one of world's most admired...

This IMHO is a totally doable job. But you need the right person to do it. Too bad you're so far from us, know a guy who would be able to handle this.

Ever thought of bringing in a top tech from outside?

Norbert


Edited by Norbert (11/20/10 02:26 PM)
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#1561290 - 11/20/10 02:35 PM Re: New Estonia 7'4 grand [Re: Norbert]
Mark... Offline
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Originally Posted By: Norbert

Ever thought of bringing in a top tech from outside?

Norbert


My tech has over 30 years experience as a tuner and a re-builder. He's worked on the E Street bands concert piano when they were on tour in the north east. He even restrung their concert piano. He seems very competent. He noticed the piano was a problem right away when I first got it. He was hoping that a few tuning would clear up the new strings, but its been about 16 months and 3-4 tuning later.

I guess that's an option I might have to pursue.

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#1561291 - 11/20/10 02:37 PM Re: New Estonia 7'4 grand [Re: Norbert]
Mark... Offline
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I think my problem has taken us way off topic, since it's really about the new Estonia 7 footer.

So any ideas of the cost for a Estonia 7 footer?

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#1561295 - 11/20/10 02:57 PM Re: New Estonia 7'4 grand [Re: Mark...]
Strings & Wood Offline


Gold member until Dec. 2012


Registered: 05/22/08
Posts: 1833
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: Mark...
I think my problem has taken us way off topic, since it's really about the new Estonia 7 footer.

So any ideas of the cost for a Estonia 7 footer?


Well I think the 7' 4" has great potential and probably worth a look. But given your past relationship with your 190 I can certainly understand your hesitation.


Quote:
I just listened to the piano and can assure it doesn't sound like any Estonia we ever had.

Mark: I pmed you and will do some investigations for you. I was one of the first Estonia dealer and we never had a piano with this type sound.

Sending this recording to cheers things up a bit:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z6pJuktelZE

Norbert


Norbert, I think that would be great. Mark deserves a better fate than this. The piano has a fundamentally different sound than any Estonia I have listened to.
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#1561455 - 11/20/10 09:33 PM Re: New Estonia 7'4 grand [Re: BB Player]
Coreyp Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/27/10
Posts: 55
Loc: Utah
Originally Posted By: BB Player
Originally Posted By: Coreyp
It's unfortunate that I see that your posts are usually very negative about your Estonia, when the majority of posts on the brand (for the last ten years of production) are extremely positive.


I'd imagine Mark thinks it's a lot more "unfortunate" than you do given that it's his piano that's the lemon.


I never meant any bad feelings here.

Wow, I listened to Mark's recital and that is NOT how our Estonia sounds at all! Yeah, I have empathy for Mark's situation.

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#1615754 - 02/08/11 11:14 PM Re: New Estonia 7'4 grand [Re: Coreyp]
learning Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/16/07
Posts: 29
Don't know if this thread is still alive.
Did the 7'4 Estonia arrive in the NYC area? I would love to try one. I have a 190 and I find the F2 area slightly unsatisfying. The rest is superb.

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#1615835 - 02/09/11 02:06 AM Re: New Estonia 7'4 grand [Re: learning]
schwammerl Offline
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Registered: 04/16/06
Posts: 2011
Loc: Belgium
leraning,

I guess the 7'4" has not arrived anywhere at any dealer's showroom yet as I have not seen it announced on any Estonia dealer website in the world.

There is even not a trace of it on the official Estonia Pianos website: it is not yet in the model list and there in no trace of it neither in the news section (press releases) or 'Estonia in the World' section!

The new 225 was presented at the NAMM 2011 in January yes but as long as the first species that were ordered are not shipped out to dealers, for me it is not officially launched as not readily available. The first to leave the factory must still be somewhere in the production process, hopefully for those waiting for one, close to the end stage of it.

Rest assured that the first Estonia dealer participating here who gets one delivered will not be too shy announcing it on the forum.

schwammerl.

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#1622566 - 02/18/11 12:17 AM Re: New Estonia 7'4 grand [Re: schwammerl]
PianoWorksATL Offline
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Registered: 09/19/09
Posts: 2634
Loc: Atlanta, GA
I made this video for those who are interested. I recommend headphones for full effect.

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#1622597 - 02/18/11 01:25 AM Re: New Estonia 7'4 grand [Re: PianoWorksATL]
turandot Offline
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That piano sounds splendid, Sam.
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#1622615 - 02/18/11 02:01 AM Re: New Estonia 7'4 grand [Re: turandot]
faulhorn Offline
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Registered: 05/24/05
Posts: 107
I believe that the NAMM 7'4" Estonia was sold to California. Anyone played it in the 'natural' environment in its current location?

F

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#1622805 - 02/18/11 10:09 AM Re: New Estonia 7'4 grand [Re: Norbert]
TX-Dennis Offline
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Impressive sounding instrument.
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#1622812 - 02/18/11 10:15 AM Re: New Estonia 7'4 grand [Re: TX-Dennis]
Keith D Kerman Online   content
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Nice job, Sam.

For those wondering, the terrific music being played is Liszt's sonata in B min.

If ever there was a piece of music sufficient to test a piano, the Liszt Sonata would be it.

I'm sure that was Liszt's intention when he composed it. smile
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#1622830 - 02/18/11 10:37 AM Re: New Estonia 7'4 grand [Re: Rich Galassini]
pianoloverus Online   content
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Originally Posted By: Rich Galassini

Very nice even without the finish. What style legs are those?

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#1622886 - 02/18/11 11:51 AM Re: New Estonia 7'4 grand [Re: pianoloverus]
PianoWorksATL Offline
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Registered: 09/19/09
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Originally Posted By: pianoloverus
Very nice even without the finish. What style legs are those?
We call those gate legs. grin It kinda gives the piano that harpsichord look. wink
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#1622893 - 02/18/11 12:06 PM Re: New Estonia 7'4 grand [Re: Norbert]
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sawhorse legs
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#1622907 - 02/18/11 12:31 PM Re: New Estonia 7'4 grand [Re: Norbert]
Norbert Online   content
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The 7'4 grand was in the making for several years but factory chose not to introduce until it was deemed perfect.

Incidentally I brought up German designer Lothar Thomma who inspected piano for some time. Very impressed.

What signifies Estonia is not just someone making another piano, but someone reaching for the top.

Eager when the first ones will become available.

Norbert
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#1623365 - 02/19/11 12:42 AM Re: New Estonia 7'4 grand [Re: PianoWorksATL]
Dara Offline
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Wonderful sounding piano and Liszt piece as played by Indrek Laul.

That's a nice quality recording Sam.
Were you using one of the portable handheld recorders, recorder from your camera, or more professional gear? Just curious.

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#1623693 - 02/19/11 02:10 PM Re: New Estonia 7'4 grand [Re: Norbert]
PianoWorksATL Offline
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Thank you. It was a simple, inexpensive set up + much practice getting the most out of it. I was really surprised it turned out that well given the environment.
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#1623862 - 02/19/11 07:17 PM Re: New Estonia 7'4 grand [Re: PianoWorksATL]
turandot Offline
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Well it does sound splendid Sam, and like you say, surprisingly good considering the noisy environment.

However, just to be totally unfair to piano, performer, and recording quality, and to put into perspective the comment that the B minor is one of the sternest tests of a piano imaginable (which it is in total, but not in a snippet), and finally to measure the piano against the spin I keep hearing that Estonia would be category 1 if not for the low price smile ), here is Economou's performance of the Lizst B minor on a a Hamburg Steinway before his tragic death.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hcPdaG3xXTI

Note: For those who like it, the entire performance can be heard in three links.
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#1623910 - 02/19/11 08:45 PM Re: New Estonia 7'4 grand [Re: turandot]
jazzyprof Offline
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Registered: 11/30/04
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Loc: Ann Arbor, MI
Originally Posted By: turandot
and finally to measure the piano against the spin I keep hearing that Estonia would be category 1 if not for the low price smile )

Call it what you will, but I got to play the Estonia 225 at NAMM and I preferred it to the Fazioli 228 in the next booth and the Bosendorfer 225 across the street! It is an impressive instrument. smile But of course, for this class of instruments it boils down to taste.
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#1624000 - 02/20/11 12:19 AM Re: New Estonia 7'4 grand [Re: jazzyprof]
turandot Offline
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Originally Posted By: jazzyprof
Originally Posted By: turandot
and finally to measure the piano against the spin I keep hearing that Estonia would be category 1 if not for the low price smile )

Call it what you will, but I got to play the Estonia 225 at NAMM and I preferred it to the Fazioli 228 in the next booth and the Bosendorfer 225 across the street! It is an impressive instrument. smile But of course, for this class of instruments it boils down to taste.


Jazzyprof,

I really don't know what to say here. The quote you excerpted reiterated my earlier comment that the piano sounded splendid. I believe I was the first to respond to Sam's youtube link. "Splendid" seems pretty good to me, but somehow such comments never seem to be enough when messing with the Estonia lobby here. smile

I also said in the post you excerpted that the comparison of a trade show piano wide open for every Tom, Dick and Harriet to play on, and recorded in a very trying acoustic environment to a concert-prepped Hamburg Steinway concert grand professionally miked for recording was unfair, so you might add that into the "Call it what you will" reference.

I made the post because I don't think that the challenges to a piano that are definitely present in the Lizst B Minor were present in the snippet submitted here, and that the inference by an Estonia dealer that that Estonia passed a stern test based on that snippet was bogus. Those challenges can only be anallyzed from a fuller hearing of that particular work on a piano, a hearing that brings to light the extremes of dynamic range called for (among other things).

As to your preference for the Estonia over the Bosie or the Faz, say what you will. grin I don't know what you were playing, but my impression is that there is a lot of classical lit that would reveal the strengths of those two pianos, but that that lit does not include the Lizst B Minor. I've never heard a live or recorded performance of the B Minor on either a Bosie 225 or a Faz 228. It would be interesting, a matter of the meat on the bone versus the exquisite character of the bone itself.
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#1624297 - 02/20/11 12:25 PM Re: New Estonia 7'4 grand [Re: turandot]
Keith D Kerman Online   content
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Originally Posted By: turandot

I made the post because I don't think that the challenges to a piano that are definitely present in the Lizst B Minor were present in the snippet submitted here, and that the inference by an Estonia dealer that that Estonia passed a stern test based on that snippet was bogus.


Just to be perfectly clear, I generally agree with this statement. I hope that you are not saying that I inferred that the Estonia 225 passed some stern test based on Sam's recording. I couldn't figure out if you were referring to my post or someone elses'.
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#1624377 - 02/20/11 01:36 PM Re: New Estonia 7'4 grand [Re: Norbert]
Norbert Online   content
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What is forgotten is that there were a large group of people playing this piano during NAMM who tried this piano at length and had also something to say after.

This was particularly interesting as Estonia was placed right besides Fazioli during the show.

It was the statements and observation of those including a number of competitors [Steve Cohen..] and even Lothar Thomma who still ring in my ears.

From my recollection, there weren't many ifs and buts.

Of course I wouldn't dare to even indicate any more for fear of piano Taliban raising its ugly,cowardly head again...

Norbert wink
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#1624388 - 02/20/11 01:51 PM Re: New Estonia 7'4 grand [Re: Norbert]
Steve Cohen Online   content
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I spent a good deal of time at the Estonia booth and listened to many who evaluated the new 7'4". The comments were universally positive. I would go so far as to say it was "acclaimed"...and deservedly so.

I also had the pleasure of going to dinner with Indrek the two nights before the show opened to dealers. The first night is was just Indrek and me, eating ribs at Tony Roma's. The second night Larry joined us.

Indrek is every bit the delight as others have described.
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#1624414 - 02/20/11 02:17 PM Re: New Estonia 7'4 grand [Re: Norbert]
turandot Offline
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Registered: 01/27/07
Posts: 7089
Loc: torrance, CA
Originally Posted By: Norbert
What is forgotten is that there were a large group of people playing this piano during NAMM who tried this piano at length and had also something to say after.

This was particularly interesting as Estonia was placed right besides Fazioli during the show.

It was the statements and observation of those including a number of competitors [Steve Cohen..] and even Lothar Thomma who still ring in my ears.


Originally Posted By: Steve Cohen
I spent a good deal of time at the Estonia booth and listened to many who evaluated the new 7'4". The comments were universally positive. I would go so far as to say it was "acclaimed"...and deservedly so.

I also had the pleasure of going to dinner with Indrek the two nights before the show opened to dealers. The first night is was just Indrek and me, eating ribs at Tony Roma's. The second night Larry joined us.

Indrek is every bit the delight as others have described


Whil all of this is undoubtedly delightful, and camaraderie has its points (and perks! grin ) it is interesting to see how what's important to our retailrr brethren may be of no consequence to consumers with ears and fingers of their own.

Many of us have only NAMM sound clips to go on. A lot of those clips are pretty useless because of the background noise and other issues. Sam's clip was the best IMO. The piano sounded splendid...sweet lyrical treble, alluring tonal qualities. But based on the smaller Estonias that's hardly a surprise. I mean.... who would expect that Indrek Laul would travel to NAMM to lay an egg? laugh

For us consumers who have ears, fingers, and confidence in our powers of evaluation (not our taste -- that's different), we should not factor in the nice guy variable any more than we should factor in the Tony Roma ribs. At some point we'll get a chance to size up one of the new Estonias (unless Ori devoours whole consignments before they reach their intended destination.

(Easy, Ori! It's a joke.)
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#1624419 - 02/20/11 02:25 PM Re: New Estonia 7'4 grand [Re: Norbert]
Norbert Online   content
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Quote:
For us consumers who have ears, fingers, and confidence in our powers of evaluation (not our taste -- that's different), we should not factor in the nice guy variable any more than we should factor in the Tony Roma ribs


Please count under 'consumers' also some dealers roaming the [show] land....

And since my wife is world's best cook, going out to dinner was of less interest to me anyways. Staying right besides Tony Roma I must admit however, their ribs are indeed very good!

Norbert thumb
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#1624438 - 02/20/11 02:46 PM Re: New Estonia 7'4 grand [Re: Norbert]
Steve Cohen Online   content
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One other factor to consider is that not all potential buyers of pianos play or trust their ability to evaluate the tonality and rsponsiveness of pianos they are considering. Many buy a piano to "grow into".

They often rely on the opinions of others.
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#1624441 - 02/20/11 02:50 PM Re: New Estonia 7'4 grand [Re: turandot]
Brent B Offline
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Originally Posted By: turandot


...For us consumers who have ears, fingers, and confidence in our powers of evaluation (not our taste -- that's different), we should not factor in the nice guy variable any more than we should factor in the Tony Roma ribs...



I didn't get the impression from Steve's post that we are supposed to "factor in the nice guy." I thought he was making two separate points...

1. The Estonia 225 was well received at NAMM
2. Indrek Laul is a nice guy.
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#1624456 - 02/20/11 03:02 PM Re: New Estonia 7'4 grand [Re: Steve Cohen]
turandot Offline
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Originally Posted By: Steve Cohen
One other factor to consider is that not all potential buyers of pianos play or trust their ability to evaluate the tonality and rsponsiveness of pianos they are considering. Many buy a piano to "grow into".

They often rely on the opinions of others.


That's scary, Steve. smile

What if they were to think that the ribs in the Estonia were made by Tony Roma? grin
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#1624466 - 02/20/11 03:08 PM Re: New Estonia 7'4 grand [Re: Keith D Kerman]
turandot Offline
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Originally Posted By: Keith D Kerman
Originally Posted By: turandot

I made the post because I don't think that the challenges to a piano that are definitely present in the Lizst B Minor were present in the snippet submitted here, and that the inference by an Estonia dealer that that Estonia passed a stern test based on that snippet was bogus.


Just to be perfectly clear, I generally agree with this statement. I hope that you are not saying that I inferred that the Estonia 225 passed some stern test based on Sam's recording. I couldn't figure out if you were referring to my post or someone elses'.


Keith,

I just found this post. Guilty as charged.

Yeah, I thought you were inferring something with your comment about the B Minor. I always think of you as a pianist first and a piano retailer second, so I'm glad to know I was wrong.

Let's have a Lizst Sonata in B minor thread sometime. I love that thing to death, but a couple of run throughs as written can put the piano out of tune.
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#1624508 - 02/20/11 03:55 PM Re: New Estonia 7'4 grand [Re: turandot]
Steve Cohen Online   content
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Originally Posted By: turandot
Originally Posted By: Steve Cohen
One other factor to consider is that not all potential buyers of pianos play or trust their ability to evaluate the tonality and rsponsiveness of pianos they are considering. Many buy a piano to "grow into".

They often rely on the opinions of others.


That's scary, Steve. smile

What if they were to think that the ribs in the Estonia were made by Tony Roma? grin


They aren't???

[Actually I must admit...I find Tony Roma's ribs much more "sustaining".]
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My postings, unless stated otherwise, are my personal opinions, not those of my clients.

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#1624678 - 02/20/11 07:16 PM Re: New Estonia 7'4 grand [Re: Steve Cohen]
master88er Offline
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Registered: 04/15/07
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Loc: San Francisco Bay Area
Originally Posted By: Steve Cohen


They aren't???

[Actually I must admit...I find Tony Roma's ribs much more "sustaining".]


And exactly what authority is a nice Jewish boy on pork Ribs?
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#1624919 - 02/21/11 04:22 AM Re: New Estonia 7'4 grand [Re: Norbert]
Bunneh Offline
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This thread combines Estonia pianos with Tony Roma's ribs and is therefore my favorite place in the world!

I wonder when the 225 will show up in Europe, that will probably be another year. And probably 5 years until I get to play one. But then again, I plan to have the house that it would fit into in 10 years at the earliest so that's still plenty of time smile
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#1801805 - 12/07/11 01:58 AM Re: New Estonia 7'4 grand [Re: Norbert]
PianoWorksATL Offline
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Registered: 09/19/09
Posts: 2634
Loc: Atlanta, GA
Hello All,

I now have several new recordings of the Estonia L225. I selected 2 short clips from other full performances that are available elsewhere on YouTube. The full versions are better, but the clips are easier to digest. Feel free to kick this can around, but I know several of you are genuinely interested...and I had fun making them. smile Oh, and it's the first time I've used this new recording setup. blush

Earlier today, I also uploaded a clip of our fearless leader, Frank Baxter , taking a break from his current road trip playing a couple of pianos including the L225. cool
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Bösendorfer, Estonia, Seiler, Grotrian, Weber & Hailun
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Full Restoration Shop
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#1801995 - 12/07/11 11:28 AM Re: New Estonia 7'4 grand [Re: PianoWorksATL]
schwammerl Offline
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Registered: 04/16/06
Posts: 2011
Loc: Belgium
Sam,

Visiting your YouTube Channel frequently I noticed the new Estonia videos but not yet the Frank Baxter one: also very nice indeed.

I would recommend everyone to watch the full length videos and preferably to switch to high definition (HD).

schwammerl.

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#1843535 - 02/12/12 10:59 PM Re: New Estonia 7'4 grand [Re: Norbert]
Wound up Offline
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Registered: 01/04/12
Posts: 65
While I do love the Estonia pianos and also I enjoy Norberts posts a bunch,

I saw this on his__ Heritage site:

"""While all of world’s top pianos are very special, the Estonia grand piano offers something unique in that it has not taken part in all too common “louder is better” race, sometimes called “Yamahazation” by most of the current manufacturers of today.""""

It is an explanation (or apology?) of what I find lacking in the Estonias, I wish it was a louder Piano, I still have plans on purchasing one as I think they are great. But next to a Fazioli (for example) it is a noticeable volume sacrifice...

Is there much you can do to raise the SPL of these guys?

Thanks for any consideration,

J

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#1843548 - 02/12/12 11:37 PM Re: New Estonia 7'4 grand [Re: Norbert]
terminaldegree Online   content
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Loc: western Wisconsin
johnkuker,

Are you talking about the new model 7'4" against other pianos of the same size or Estonias in general?

Having played a decent handful of model 190s at this point, I guess what I noticed compared with other good quality pianos of that size was a tone biased towards lyrical beauty and a dynamic range that seems more intended for a home than a hall. The latter trait made the piano a contender for me, but the former didn't work well with the full range or repertoire that I like to play.

I imagine the larger model might provide more of the oomph you desire... if not, there certainly are many louder pianos out there to choose!
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#1843596 - 02/13/12 01:40 AM Re: New Estonia 7'4 grand [Re: terminaldegree]
Wound up Offline
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Registered: 01/04/12
Posts: 65
Hi, Yeah the 7'4" was the best Estonia I have heard, and You are correct there are other screamers out there__ j

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#1843617 - 02/13/12 04:00 AM Re: New Estonia 7'4 grand [Re: Norbert]
Norbert Online   content
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Quote:
I find lacking in the Estonias, I wish it was a louder Piano, I still have plans on purchasing one as I think they are great. But next to a Fazioli (for example) it is a noticeable volume sacrifice...


This may be true for some - but not necessarily for others.

Just like the one before, we just sold our last 225 Estonia to a gentleman who not only compared the piano to above named super star but several others of equally high-highest tier.

Money? No problem: this guy had enough to buy both companies twice over...

Nice to have another remarkable choice - that's what it's all about.

This being said with greatest respect to everyone else out there....

Norbert smile


Edited by Norbert (02/13/12 04:07 AM)
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#1844275 - 02/14/12 03:38 AM Re: New Estonia 7'4 grand [Re: Norbert]
Wound up Offline
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How Many Estonia 225's have been built? I played the Namm one and really liked it did anyone else check this one out? Thanks


Edited by Wound up (02/14/12 03:41 AM)

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#1844416 - 02/14/12 10:55 AM Re: New Estonia 7'4 grand [Re: Norbert]
PianoWorksATL Offline
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1 per month since its introduction. Most have already been sold to customers.
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Full Restoration Shop
www.PianoWorks.com
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#1844567 - 02/14/12 03:15 PM Re: New Estonia 7'4 grand [Re: PianoWorksATL]
Wound up Offline
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Thanks Sam,

I Saw the video of you guys having one (I think) What was the impression as compares to other
high end pianos? Thanks for your time j

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#1844606 - 02/14/12 04:15 PM Re: New Estonia 7'4 grand [Re: Norbert]
PianoWorksATL Offline
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Loc: Atlanta, GA
Many of the current crop of videos of the 225 are those captured at NAMM (some of mine, some from Keyboard Magazine, etc.) or those recorded at our store with the help of good friends. I'm no recording expert to capture the instrument's true voice, but what was easy to capture is the immediate excitement of those playing and listening to the music from this instrument for the very first time. The music from that piano almost kills you with kindness.

I love the variety of high end pianos. Piano comparisons keep this forum alive, but are about as reliable as eye-witness testimony. Our 225 took more preparation than I was expecting, but that's about the only comment I can think of that isn't absolutely glowing. So I'll reserve my bias and defer to the videos as an introduction to others.

By the way, if you want to gain a sense of volume from the 225, I recommend this video.
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#1844616 - 02/14/12 04:35 PM Re: New Estonia 7'4 grand [Re: PianoWorksATL]
PaintedPostDave Online   content
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Wow!!! wow
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#1844708 - 02/14/12 06:59 PM Re: New Estonia 7'4 grand [Re: PaintedPostDave]
PianoWorksATL Offline
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Loc: Atlanta, GA
Originally Posted By: PaintedPostDave
Wow!!! wow
Yeah. That guy knows what he's doing. smile
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Full Restoration Shop
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#1844785 - 02/14/12 09:11 PM Re: New Estonia 7'4 grand [Re: Norbert]
MrMagic Offline
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Pretty cool to see a passionate piano player who is also a passionate piano maker!
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#1844801 - 02/14/12 09:32 PM Re: New Estonia 7'4 grand [Re: MrMagic]
Wound up Offline
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Registered: 01/04/12
Posts: 65
Thanks Sam,

Yeah it seems like a wonderful instrument-- It certainly seems louder then I was remembering when Indrek Laul crashes on it!

I like the Video of Dr. Laul's wife playing Namm 2012 the best though:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IngEZmZt33Y
she made it sound so pretty__ I wonder what she is playing...??

I wish someone who bought one would do a review! cheers

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#1844805 - 02/14/12 09:44 PM Re: New Estonia 7'4 grand [Re: Wound up]
carey Online   content
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Registered: 05/13/05
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Loc: Phoenix, Arizona
Originally Posted By: Wound up

I like the Video of Dr. Laul's wife playing Namm 2012 the best though:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IngEZmZt33Y
she made it sound so pretty__ I wonder what she is playing...??


There are two women featured in the video. The first is playing the Schumann Fantasy Opus 17. The second is playing the first movement of the Schumann Piano Concerto.
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#1844969 - 02/15/12 01:45 AM Re: New Estonia 7'4 grand [Re: carey]
Wound up Offline
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Registered: 01/04/12
Posts: 65
Thanks Carey,

for access to my new favorite piece,

Also, I decided to throw down and put a deposit on a 225_ Thanks to all you at PW for helping inform me whilst I was lurking these last few months__
Now time to practice

j

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#1844985 - 02/15/12 02:10 AM Re: New Estonia 7'4 grand [Re: Wound up]
carey Online   content
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Registered: 05/13/05
Posts: 6037
Loc: Phoenix, Arizona
Originally Posted By: Wound up

Also, I decided to throw down and put a deposit on a 225_


Now THAT is really exciting !!!!!!!!!! thumb

Congratulations !!
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#1845189 - 02/15/12 10:45 AM Re: New Estonia 7'4 grand [Re: Wound up]
PianoWorksATL Offline
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Registered: 09/19/09
Posts: 2634
Loc: Atlanta, GA
Originally Posted By: Wound up
Also, I decided to throw down and put a deposit on a 225_ Thanks to all you at PW for helping inform me whilst I was lurking these last few months__
Now time to practice

j
Good decision! smile
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#1847154 - 02/18/12 05:48 AM Re: New Estonia 7'4 grand [Re: Norbert]
Wound up Offline
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Registered: 01/04/12
Posts: 65
I have heard the 5'6" and the 190, This one seems to be all the way there does anyone (dealers invited to comment) have any insight about how this one measures up?? thx j

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#1847648 - 02/19/12 04:19 AM Re: New Estonia 7'4 grand [Re: Norbert]
Wound up Offline
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Registered: 01/04/12
Posts: 65
oops, 'this one' meaning the 225/7'4"

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#1847913 - 02/19/12 04:16 PM Re: New Estonia 7'4 grand [Re: Norbert]
PianoWorksATL Offline
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Registered: 09/19/09
Posts: 2634
Loc: Atlanta, GA
Wound up,

Given that it is an incredibly new model, their limited production and that only a few Estonia dealers that have received one participate on this forum...you'll likely hear from the same 3-4 people that have already posted in this thread.

If you have a specific question, I would talk to your local dealer or PM me and I'll do my best to answer it. I believe we have 1 of only 2 available in the U.S. right now.
_________________________
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PianoWorks - Atlanta Piano Dealer
Bösendorfer, Estonia, Seiler, Grotrian, Weber & Hailun
Pre-Owned: Yamaha, Kawai, Steinway & other fine pianos
Full Restoration Shop
www.PianoWorks.com
www.youtube.com/PianoWorksAtlanta

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#1850508 - 02/24/12 12:45 AM Re: New Estonia 7'4 grand [Re: Norbert]
Wound up Offline
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Registered: 01/04/12
Posts: 65
Thanks Again Sam,

I played the 225 Estonia for the 2012 Namm show, It sounds really great and special, Sweet and solid.

Though.. the 'aound middle c' section was voiced down too far for my tastes. --Duller further away sounding -- not has good as other Estonia's out of the crate --to me. (speaking to the voicing of the hammers only) I also saw the 190 Pyramid Mahogany model in MPLS and it Also had the same voicing issue. I pulled the action and you could physically see that there was work done to the 'offending -to me' hammers....

*Questions: Would you have any reservations about purchasing such an Instrument -- Namm/heavily played by some monster players for 3 days? and How about the voicing issue-- would one try to voice it up? or is it worth it to rehammer that section? I know that I am being critical but -- buying a NEW piano - I do not want to live with ANY unneeded compromises...


There are several great youtube videos Gleen Stewart playing Giant Steps on the Estonia 225 from Namm 2012, Is dizzying with players with that kind of finger strength the paino doesn't sound dull at all-- but for lil ol me it is a bit bagged out in the middle--
(when the actions were pullewd you could see the weird sounding sections had treated-softened/needled hammers--)

Any insight or suggestions would be most welcome -

fwiw JimLaabs has that SO Pretty 190



Edited by Wound up (02/24/12 12:48 AM)

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#1850594 - 02/24/12 07:56 AM Re: New Estonia 7'4 grand [Re: Norbert]
J Ruggero Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 06/26/08
Posts: 18
Loc: Raleigh
This piano was the high point of NAMM 2012 for me. Can't wait to receive one.
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#1850726 - 02/24/12 12:38 PM Re: New Estonia 7'4 grand [Re: Norbert]
Axtremus Offline
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Registered: 08/29/03
Posts: 6150
A bit off topic, but since this is the first Estonia thread I see on the index page ...

Happy Birthday, Estonia!

And by that I mean Estonia the country that declared independence on the 24th of February, 1918.

I learnt that it's Estonia's "birthday" from watching Colbert Report where Stephen Colbert gave a shout-out to Estonia for said "birthday" and complimented the country for having a good PR department.

Anyway, enjoy your pianos. smile
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#1850782 - 02/24/12 01:58 PM Re: New Estonia 7'4 grand [Re: Norbert]
Wound up Offline
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Registered: 01/04/12
Posts: 65
Thanks J Rugerro, You are making me feel even better and less paranoid about buying that piano. Cheers j

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#1954536 - 09/05/12 11:34 PM Re: New Estonia 7'4 grand [Re: Norbert]
Norbert Online   content
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At the risk of perhaps being old news, the brand new Estonia grand 6'10 will be officially unveiled in October this year.

Congratulations to Ori who is the first having received this model! thumb

We pre-purchased the model to be shown during next NAMM.

Preliminary reports from trustworthy insiders are excellent but of course like all "experts" - could be wrong. laugh

Perhaps a number of other brands will also introduce new models for 2013 - could be interesting year for the industry!

Norbert


Edited by Norbert (09/05/12 11:39 PM)
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#1965416 - 09/27/12 06:09 PM Re: New Estonia 7'4 grand [Re: Norbert]
Wound up Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/04/12
Posts: 65
Hi Norbert,

Congratulations on grabbing the NAMM Estonia 210

Are you going to be there? I am planning on going __ Looking forward to Seeing the Estonia Show Area.

I am Just now getting around to installing the 225 I had a climate control issue so it has been in proper storage..

Does anyone have any ideas how the new 210 compares to the 225?

Best J

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#1965618 - 09/28/12 04:45 AM Re: New Estonia 7'4 grand [Re: Norbert]
joe80 Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/30/09
Posts: 955
Originally Posted By: Norbert
Quote:
I find lacking in the Estonias, I wish it was a louder Piano, I still have plans on purchasing one as I think they are great. But next to a Fazioli (for example) it is a noticeable volume sacrifice...


This may be true for some - but not necessarily for others.

Just like the one before, we just sold our last 225 Estonia to a gentleman who not only compared the piano to above named super star but several others of equally high-highest tier.

Money? No problem: this guy had enough to buy both companies twice over...

Nice to have another remarkable choice - that's what it's all about.

This being said with greatest respect to everyone else out there....

Norbert smile


Tone isn't all about volume, it's about quality and being able to work it.

It also depends on how the piano is being used, if you want a piano for a concert hall, and it's going to be used for concertos with orchestra, you need something a bit bigger sounding perhaps, but if it's going to be used for chamber music, and even solo recitals, you need a wide colour palette, but not the loudest piano ever.

Besides, after a while, many pianos go loud!

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