Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Digital Pianos - Electronic Pianos - Synths & Keyboards Yamaha AvantGrand N2 vs. similar priced Yamaha upright?

Hi!

What are you thoughts on the playability/key action, sound, note-seperation/clarity, detail/nuances concerning the AvantGrand N2, and a similar priced Yamaha upright, acoustic piano?

Piano will be used for both classical stuff and jazz.

Thanks!

For playing live or for recording?

No matter how good the DP, what you hear still comes from speakers. No way around that. But if you are talking about recording then both are heard through speakers and the acoustic piano looses it's advantage.

That said, I don't plan any live performances in my house and an upright can't work headphones. For me an acoustic piano is totally unpractical.

Just a personal preference but I would have the AG over ANY acoustic upright. An upright sounds like an upright and has an upright's action (even at its best, completely inferior to a grand's). The AG sonically emulates a grand and has a grand's action. Sonically, I would rather have a digital emulation of a grand than a top-notch acoustic upright. You have to remember that an upright was the digital of its day really...someone realised that many people could not afford a grand piano and could not physically accommodate one so the upright was developed. The upright piano was not the result of a quest for improved playability, volume, expressiveness, dynamics etc because in all these respects it is inferior to a grand piano. The upright was born out of a massive set of compromises.

Steve

Interesting perspective, Steve. When I come to think about, I agree with this analogy

Karnevil, if you post your question in the 'Digital Pianos - Synths & Keyboards' you will get answers advocating the N2.

If you post it in the 'Piano Forum' the majority of replies will probably be the other way round (unless you need to play quietly or with headphones).

+ 1

Buy a real studio piano, there is absolutely no comparison. Yamaha makes really nice studio pianos.

The AvantGrand sound technology is really mediocre for what you are paying.

Which DP has better sound technology than the AvantGrand?

For the price of an N2 you can probably get something like a Yamaha YUS5 or a Kawai K8 (at least in the UK).

The N2 retails for $15K while the YUS5 retails for $19.7K and its silent version (which is more apple to apple comparison to the N2) retails for $24.4K. The Kawai K8 retails for $18.2K as compared to the N2 retail of $15K.

So it's hardly comparable pricing and any of those 3 uprights cost a lot more than the N2.

I played the N2 (for the 2nd time) the other day and just don't think it's worth the premium over the regular CLP's. The action felt like that of a digital piano and the sound was little different. It's not even close to my own 10 year old U1 which cost me a fraction of the price. Compared to a similarly priced acoustic upright it only makes sense if you need to be able to play through headphones.

The acoustic uprights aren't worth buying, and you'll have a very difficult time selling one if your plans ever change...they are worth very little second hand.

Not only that, but the acoustic uprights will need tuning.

The Avant Grand N2 is your best possible choice...it sounds a heck of a lot better than any acoustic upright, and the feel of the action is far superior.

Snazzy

Really?

I have owned several over the years and managed to sell every single one for more than I payed for it. Why not spend $15k on an N2 and then see what it's worth in 5 years time? You might be dissapointed.

The N2's grand keyboard action is superior to almost all uprights's keyboard action in the first place, since it's a real grand action. You can't even find a grand action in any acoustic upright except for a very few latest and most expensive uprights. So it's not even a debate that the N2 has the advantage here on the action, and that's half of the advantage already (if you give the action 50% weight and sound the other 50%).

The only debatable point is on the sound. Yeah, the N2 is speaker sound, but it's no ordinary small pathetic stereo sound system like most other DPs. It's a 4-channel, 10-speaker, 2-transducer and 12-amplifier sound system, on top of a high quality 4-channel CFIIS concert grand sampled sound to boost. So whether this is inferior to an acoustic upright sound or not is debatable and a personal opinion. I wouldn't say one has a clear advantage over the other.

There are many other things worth considering that give the N2 a clear advantage: volume control, always in tune, no tuning cost, no voicing cost, no humidity control need, lighter weight, MIDI, USB, recording, playback, more sounds, direct line out for further amplification.

I don't think it's as simple as splitting action and sound 50/50.

The action is being used to control the sound. So if the the sound itself is artificial then the action makes no real difference. This is what I felt when I played the N2 (and the N3). I coudn't equate the feel to that of a grand piano because what I was hearing was not a grand piano.

At one time, uprights were worth buying...today, with such fantastic digitals like the N2, with superior action,AND sound, people are more interested in the latter.

The only acoustics worth investing in today would be grands.

The N2 would sell much quicker than an upright...hardly anybody buys uprights anymore....the sound isn't so hot compared to a digital of the same price, and you've got the cost of tuning...if I were going to buy a piano I HAD to tune, it wouldn't be an upright...it would be a grand...they hold their value much, much better...I know I could sell my old Steinway for far more than it cost new, but an older upright piano...sometimes they are hard to even give away.

Snazzy.

This is only because there's been no serious and viable competition to the acoustic uprights in the previous years that you owned your uprights, so you might have been able to luckily enjoy this advantage until now. But landscape has now changed with the coming of serious and viable alternatives such as the N2, so you'll no longer be able to enjoy this advantage anymore in the years to come. The evidence is in such thread as this one where people are beginning to question whether they should get a DP such as the N2 over an acoustic upright now.

In as much as questioning how much the N2 will be worth 5 years from now, I suspect that the picture for acoustic uprights' value will be even grimmer 5 years from now and will probably be worse than the N2, considering that serious competition has now arrived and is here to stay and will only get better.

I have been asked in the last two years by two different people if I wanted an old upright for free. I took only one for my folks because that's all the space they had. And I had to pay $400 to move that thing!

Actually when you play the N2, you are hearing the sound of a concert grand...when you play an upright, you hear the sound of that instrument.

The action in the N2 is from a grand...far superior to that of an upright.

Sound-wise, the upright takes a back seat to either an N2 or an N3...I had the latter, and it blows away any upright I've played, and as a working pro, I've played quite a few.

There will be those who prefer an acoustic...their numbers get smaller every year, while those who buy digital pianos are increasing.

Snazzy

So you're saying no matter how great the action is, you'll always give the sound 100% weight. That's just your personal opinion. I see most other people value the action as much as the sound, if not even more, especially when it comes to a DP as a practice instrument, and especially those who ultimately want to get an acoustic grand later on but want the grand action right now, today, even before they own an acoustic grand.