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#1411660 - 04/05/10 05:41 PM Re: Yamaha AvantGrand N2 vs. similar priced Yamaha upright? [Re: nan]
RDW Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/17/09
Posts: 101
There seems to be a perception here that the (acoustic) grand piano is in all respects superior to the upright. The upright is viewed as a compromise instrument, designed only for people without the space (or wallet) for a grand. I think this is quite wrong. An upright has its own special character, which can be more appropriate in some situations than a grand. Strangely enough, several digital audio companies seem to agree:

http://www.stedeford.com/schimmelpiano.html

http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/jun03/articles/samp_piano.asp

http://www.clavia.se/main.asp?tm=Libraries&cllibr=Nord_Piano_Library&clplib=Upright_Piano

http://www.synthogy.com/products/uprightpianos.html

Even Steinberg's 'The Grand' includes an upright:

http://www.steinberg.net/en/products/vstinstruments/thegrand3.html

I really don't buy the comparison with digital photography, either. Manufacturers of digital cameras are not fundamentally attempting to emulate film cameras (though retro design touches and gimmicky modes that simulate film grain or sepia toning may superficially suggest otherwise). DPs, on the other hand, are all about imitating APs as closely as possible (for less money but with more convenience). As long as this continues, there will always be a place for the real thing. The original poster, of couse, is the only one one can decide which instrument is preferable. There is no 'correct' answer here, however dogmatic some of the replies have been!

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#1411680 - 04/05/10 06:04 PM Re: Yamaha AvantGrand N2 vs. similar priced Yamaha upright? [Re: RDW]
snazzyplayer Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/26/09
Posts: 983
Loc: Earth
Actually,. an average grand is a far better sounding instrument than an average upright, and the action is much faster....Yamaha U-series are better sounding than most uprights, but still aren't as responsive as a grand, at least not to my fingers.

Digital pianos, especially the higher end models, base their actions on the grand for a reason.

I personally have no use for upright pianos, finding 99% of them short on sound, and 100% of them lacking in response....but, there are those who love them and want them.

But that's my personal opinion...as seen in the posts, there will be those who differ.

Snazzy
_________________________
Semper Gumby: Always flexible \:^)

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#1411683 - 04/05/10 06:06 PM Re: Yamaha AvantGrand N2 vs. similar priced Yamaha upright? [Re: nan]
Chris H. Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/14/05
Posts: 2837
Loc: UK.
Originally Posted By: nan
-- so Chris, grand touch action matters a lot to me because I can't afford a grand. I think that's why a lot of us like DP's. The action on the DP I had before my CLP 990 was awful. I love my 990 but am very interested in seeing how it compares to the AG 2.


If you can afford an AvantGrand then you can afford a nice used acoustic grand. If you don't have the space for one then buy yourself a good upright. Or stick with the 990 and save a packet. It won't sound much different to the AG anyway.
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#1411690 - 04/05/10 06:22 PM Re: Yamaha AvantGrand N2 vs. similar priced Yamaha upright? [Re: Karnevil]
snazzyplayer Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/26/09
Posts: 983
Loc: Earth
Originally Posted By: Karnevil
Hi!

What are you thoughts on the playability/key action, sound, note-seperation/clarity, detail/nuances concerning the AvantGrand N2, and a similar priced Yamaha upright, acoustic piano?

Piano will be used for both classical stuff and jazz.

Thanks! smile


well now, I'm glad I had another gander at the first post.

Classical and Jazz?

By rights, for those genres, you need the action of a grand, not an upright...the response of the latter just won't do...just too pokey.

Best to investigate the Avant Grand N2, or a digital that has the three sensor action.

Snazzy
_________________________
Semper Gumby: Always flexible \:^)

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#1411707 - 04/05/10 06:57 PM Re: Yamaha AvantGrand N2 vs. similar priced Yamaha upright? [Re: snazzyplayer]
Chris H. Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/14/05
Posts: 2837
Loc: UK.
Genre makes no difference. You can play Classical or jazz on anything you like.

If you absolutely must have a grand piano action then buy a grand piano. The advantages of a grand action will help you to get the most out of the sound of a real acoustic grand piano. If it has to be digital then the action doesn't matter as long as it feels okay t play.
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#1411713 - 04/05/10 07:11 PM Re: Yamaha AvantGrand N2 vs. similar priced Yamaha upright? [Re: Chris H.]
snazzyplayer Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/26/09
Posts: 983
Loc: Earth
Classical and Jazz are best played on a grand...everyone knows that well enough...ask any pro. That's why you see grands in jazz clubs and on the classical stage....no uprights.

Uprights are pokey, grands are much much better (but expensive!), and there's the tuning issue rearing it's ugly head for both...so the Avant Grand has a grand action and no tuning is necessary...of course, a good three sensor digital by Yamaha or Roland would and should be the next choice, as their actions are modelled after a grand, and a good digital will also sound like a grand, as a real grand piano was sampled for the sounds.

Snazzy



_________________________
Semper Gumby: Always flexible \:^)

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#1411719 - 04/05/10 07:21 PM Re: Yamaha AvantGrand N2 vs. similar priced Yamaha upright? [Re: snazzyplayer]
Chris H. Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/14/05
Posts: 2837
Loc: UK.
I'm sorry but you can't call yourself a serious pianist and then complain about having to have the thing tuned a couple of times a year. Is that your priority? If so then go check your electricity bill after spending 30 hours a week on your DP.

Yes, a grand action is better than an upright action. But what is the action for? It's there to get the best out of the sound. Without the sound of a real acoustic grand piano there really is no point. You can go on about samples all you like but in the end all they give you is a recording of the real thing. It's not real.


Edited by Chris H. (04/05/10 07:22 PM)
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#1411726 - 04/05/10 07:29 PM Re: Yamaha AvantGrand N2 vs. similar priced Yamaha upright? [Re: Chris H.]
beet31425 Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/12/09
Posts: 3621
Loc: Bay Area, CA
Originally Posted By: Chris H.
Yes, a grand action is better than an upright action. But what is the action for? It's there to get the best out of the sound. Without the sound of a real acoustic grand piano there really is no point.


I'm not sure if this is true for me. I just started my own piano buying adventure, and one thing I've recently realized is that the feel of the piano is even more important to me than the sound. I realize that this is an artificial distinction, as feel and sound are intricately linked. But, to make it concrete, I find that I have very little opinion of a piano from hearing someone else play it, and a sudden strong opinion from feeling myself play it.

I tried the AvantGrand this weekend. It was impressive. Still not acoustic enough for my own personal needs, but impressive. For me, the OP's choice of AG vs. Yamaha upright is a near-perfect dichotomy: they would have equal worth for me, but for completely different reasons.

I'm sure that doesn't really help. smile

-Jason
_________________________
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Schubert D.899/4, Chopin op.25/2

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#1411728 - 04/05/10 07:35 PM Re: Yamaha AvantGrand N2 vs. similar priced Yamaha upright? [Re: Chris H.]
snazzyplayer Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/26/09
Posts: 983
Loc: Earth
Originally Posted By: Chris H.
I'm sorry but you can't call yourself a serious pianist and then complain about having to have the thing tuned a couple of times a year. .


I'm afraid you can't call yourself a "serious" pianist if your choice is an upright piano. wink

That's why serious players use grand pianos...in fact they refuse to play on nothing less.

If your hearing isn't too sensitive, then tuning (or lack of it) won't be a problem...unfortunately, there are some of us who mind playing an instrument that is slowly going out of tune with itself, and the instruments around it.

I don't mind spending my money having my Steinway tuned, but I wouldn't waste my money on trying to keep an upright in shape...they just aren't worth the effort.

The acoustic vs the digital is a no-win argument...we've all seen many posts on this forum about it that solved nothing...if an acoustic upright makes your boat float, then by all means enjoy it, but please don't assume it's for anyone who takes piano playing seriously.

It isn't. Seriously.

Snazzy
_________________________
Semper Gumby: Always flexible \:^)

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#1411730 - 04/05/10 07:36 PM Re: Yamaha AvantGrand N2 vs. similar priced Yamaha upright? [Re: RDW]
Volusiano Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/01/10
Posts: 770
Originally Posted By: RDW
I really don't buy the comparison with digital photography, either. Manufacturers of digital cameras are not fundamentally attempting to emulate film cameras (though retro design touches and gimmicky modes that simulate film grain or sepia toning may superficially suggest otherwise). DPs, on the other hand, are all about imitating APs as closely as possible (for less money but with more convenience). As long as this continues, there will always be a place for the real thing

It's true that the digital camera doesn't exactly try to emulate the film per se, because after all, the film itself is just another recording medium with its own drawbacks as well. I guess you can say that both the film and the digital CCD are just recording media trying to emulate and capture the vision as seen by the human eyes, with the vision being the "source".

So I agree that in the past decades, the DP has been trying to emulate the acoustic piano sound because the piano sound has been the only "source" available. But with the arrival of the modeling technology, eventually the "model" will become the new "source" (with many adjustable parameters to boost) and will replace the acoustic piano sound source. So emulation of the acoustic piano sound will not continue indefinitely like many people think.

Anyway, back to the point at hand about how the digital SLR is not the perfect analogy like I thought it was. In terms of film being just another recording medium and not a "source" to emulate, I agree. But in terms of being a replacement technology, there are so many uncanny similarities in the digital SLR analogy that it's still my favorite analogy to use:

1) Like the AP, the film technology had been the dominant technology for the longest time with virtually no competition, to the point where it seemed almost invincible.

2) Like the AP, the film technology has a lot of drawbacks and inconveniences that are big hassles to consumers. They're consumable and inhibits you from taking as many pictures as you like for fear of "wasting an exposure". You have to wait to use up the whole roll before you can develop them. You have to drop them off and wait to develop and print, etc.

3) Initial digital camera technology were limited at first to the lower priced point-and-shoot varieties (analogous to the cheaper DPs) with lower resolution CCDs (analogous to the inferior DP sound samples) and inadequate small size optical lenses (analogous to the inferior DP keyboard action). But many people were happy with them for the convenience and practicality they offer, so they took off in popularity.

4) But serious photographers were still sticking to film cameras, because the CCD resolution was still not good enough, and because there was no way those puny little lenses could ever replace those big interchangeable SLR lenses that they've been accustomed to. So the market for film SLR cameras still survived.

5) Finally the digital SLR (analogous to a high end DP like the Avant-Grand) came into the picture that could address most of these concerns, and is superior in many other ways that are inherent attributes of being a digital camera. They're not totally digital. They're hybrid in the sense that they adopt the same analog SLR interchangeable lenses (analogous to the grand keyboard action) because that's the one component that can't be "digitized". They're pretty expensive to start out with (like the AG is), but eventually they come down in price and become more affordable to the masses (like the direction high priced DPs such as the AG will go).

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#1411736 - 04/05/10 07:44 PM Re: Yamaha AvantGrand N2 vs. similar priced Yamaha upright? [Re: Volusiano]
Melodialworks Music Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/19/05
Posts: 1309
Loc: Canada
This is like the PC v. Mac debate. (Of course there really is no contest. Macs rule!)
_________________________
Melodialworks Music
Yamaha C3X
Yamaha CP300 + Omnisphere
Yamaha NU1 + Production Grand

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#1411741 - 04/05/10 07:56 PM Re: Yamaha AvantGrand N2 vs. similar priced Yamaha upright? [Re: snazzyplayer]
Chris H. Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/14/05
Posts: 2837
Loc: UK.
Originally Posted By: snazzyplayer
I'm afraid you can't call yourself a "serious" pianist if your choice is an upright piano. wink

That's why serious players use grand pianos...in fact they refuse to play on nothing less.


Like any other serious pianist my choice is an acoustic.

Where is your evidence to suggest that serious players refuse to play anything other than grand pianos?
_________________________
Pianist and piano teacher.

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#1411742 - 04/05/10 07:57 PM Re: Yamaha AvantGrand N2 vs. similar priced Yamaha upright? [Re: Melodialworks Music]
snazzyplayer Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/26/09
Posts: 983
Loc: Earth
Originally Posted By: Melodialworks Music
This is like the PC v. Mac debate. (Of course there really is no contest. Macs rule!)


Ha Ha...spoken like a true Macophile. wink
_________________________
Semper Gumby: Always flexible \:^)

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#1411744 - 04/05/10 08:01 PM Re: Yamaha AvantGrand N2 vs. similar priced Yamaha upright? [Re: beet31425]
Chris H. Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/14/05
Posts: 2837
Loc: UK.
Originally Posted By: beet31425
I find that I have very little opinion of a piano from hearing someone else play it, and a sudden strong opinion from feeling myself play it.


Of course, that's because you are in control of the sound it makes.
_________________________
Pianist and piano teacher.

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#1411746 - 04/05/10 08:04 PM Re: Yamaha AvantGrand N2 vs. similar priced Yamaha upright? [Re: Melodialworks Music]
Chris H. Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/14/05
Posts: 2837
Loc: UK.
Originally Posted By: Melodialworks Music
This is like the PC v. Mac debate. (Of course there really is no contest. Macs rule!)


Mac owners convince themselves of the Mac's superiority in order to justify the price they paid. I would say the same about the AvantGrand.
_________________________
Pianist and piano teacher.

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#1411749 - 04/05/10 08:07 PM Re: Yamaha AvantGrand N2 vs. similar priced Yamaha upright? [Re: Chris H.]
Volusiano Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/01/10
Posts: 770
Originally Posted By: Chris H.
I'm sorry but you can't call yourself a serious pianist and then complain about having to have the thing tuned a couple of times a year. Is that your priority? If so then go check your electricity bill after spending 30 hours a week on your DP.

I did the calculation on how much electricity I would pay to play the N3 for 30 hours a week. At 500W (unlike most other DPs who average less than 100W), that's 60kWH a month for 120 hrs, and my rate is 6.6c/kWH, so that comes out to about $4/month on electricity cost on the N3, or under $50 a year. Can I get 2 tunings/year for $25/tuning?

I use the N3 on headphones for 1/2 the time, so my N3 wouldn't be running at the full 500W all the times because the amps will sit at idle in headphones mode. And I don't use 30 hours/week, more like 21 hours/week (at 3 hours a day max). So adjusting for these factors, my annual cost is actually around $17/year of electricity to operate the N3.

While my first priority is volume control and not tuning, being 100% in tune (not just the tuning cost) is my second priority.

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#1411753 - 04/05/10 08:16 PM Re: Yamaha AvantGrand N2 vs. similar priced Yamaha upright? [Re: Chris H.]
snazzyplayer Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/26/09
Posts: 983
Loc: Earth
Originally Posted By: Chris H.


Like any other serious pianist my choice is an acoustic.



It's an acoustic upright, right?

Get yourself a real piano...get a grand. smirk

The choice of professionals the world over.

Snazzy
_________________________
Semper Gumby: Always flexible \:^)

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#1411756 - 04/05/10 08:21 PM Re: Yamaha AvantGrand N2 vs. similar priced Yamaha upright? [Re: Chris H.]
Volusiano Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/01/10
Posts: 770
Originally Posted By: Chris H.
Originally Posted By: Melodialworks Music
This is like the PC v. Mac debate. (Of course there really is no contest. Macs rule!)


Mac owners convince themselves of the Mac's superiority in order to justify the price they paid. I would say the same about the AvantGrand.

I know that Melodialworks just threw it out there in jest for fun, but it's the DP that's always been the underdog and it's the AP's camp who claims superiority, not the other way around.

As for the AvantGrand being overpriced, maybe so, but only compared to other lower priced DPs, which are very nice, just not as nice. But I wouldn't call the AvantGrand overpriced compared to a brand new acoustic upright, and especially compared to a new acoustic grand.

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#1411763 - 04/05/10 08:42 PM Re: Yamaha AvantGrand N2 vs. similar priced Yamaha upright? [Re: Volusiano]
jmmec Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/02/10
Posts: 86
Loc: New Mexico (yes, USA!)
A "real pianist" would never play an upright... right?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_mhaa_2uTBQ

smile
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Roland HP-307
Roland Quad-Capture

https://vimeo.com/58278342

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#1411769 - 04/05/10 08:53 PM Re: Yamaha AvantGrand N2 vs. similar priced Yamaha upright? [Re: Volusiano]
kippesc Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/30/09
Posts: 396
Loc: United States
Originally Posted By: Volusiano
I did the calculation on how much electricity I would pay to play the N3 for 30 hours a week. At 500W (unlike most other DPs who average less than 100W), that's 60kWH a month for 120 hrs, and my rate is 6.6c/kWH, so that comes out to about $4/month on electricity cost on the N3, or under $50 a year.


Awesome comment! I wonder what I'm paying when I run my N2 into my MacBook Pro.

On a more substantive note: I have been pleasantly surprised at how good the sample set is on the N2 when played through Sennheiser HD-600 headphones. Also, it should be noted that the instrument has two piano voices, and I find that I like playing classical with voice 1 and jazz with voice 2 (a brighter sound).

Several years ago I owned a Yamaha U5 which was bright and loud, even when brand new. Voice 2 reminds me of that piano. But of course, not all U5s are that way and they can be needled into a more mellow state.
_________________________
Steinway B
Yamaha AvantGrand N2
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#1411774 - 04/05/10 09:01 PM Re: Yamaha AvantGrand N2 vs. similar priced Yamaha upright? [Re: jmmec]
snazzyplayer Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/26/09
Posts: 983
Loc: Earth
Originally Posted By: jmmec
A "real pianist" would never play an upright... right?


smile


Poor fellow...didn't even give him a decent bench either...they should be fully ashamed of themselves.

It'll take him weeks to get that awful experience out of his head.

He'd have been better off with a decent digital piano, and miles ahead with an Avant Grand or a Roland HP-307....either way, he'd would have actually enjoyed playing, instead of that forced performance on that awful upright. wink

Snazzy
_________________________
Semper Gumby: Always flexible \:^)

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#1411786 - 04/05/10 09:19 PM Re: Yamaha AvantGrand N2 vs. similar priced Yamaha upright? [Re: jmmec]
Dave Ferris Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/12/07
Posts: 1675
Loc: Glendale, Ca.
.
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2005 NY Steinway D, Nord Piano 2

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#1411789 - 04/05/10 09:21 PM Re: Yamaha AvantGrand N2 vs. similar priced Yamaha upright? [Re: snazzyplayer]
Melodialworks Music Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/19/05
Posts: 1309
Loc: Canada
Originally Posted By: snazzyplayer
Originally Posted By: jmmec
A "real pianist" would never play an upright... right?
smile


Poor fellow...didn't even give him a decent bench either...they should be fully ashamed of themselves.

It'll take him weeks to get that awful experience out of his head.



It is worth reading the comments included with that Youtube video. Seems to support the Acoustic Grands are better than Uprights argument. (Although it really seems absurd to have to be making the argument).

I really had a giggle, though, at snazzy's humour . . . . !
_________________________
Melodialworks Music
Yamaha C3X
Yamaha CP300 + Omnisphere
Yamaha NU1 + Production Grand

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#1411791 - 04/05/10 09:25 PM Re: Yamaha AvantGrand N2 vs. similar priced Yamaha upright? [Re: Dave Ferris]
snazzyplayer Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/26/09
Posts: 983
Loc: Earth
Originally Posted By: Dave Ferris



Again before you say all uprights are created equal---


They aren't...but they still don't have the response of a grand piano.

Disgusting. wink

Just think of how good his performance would have been on a real piano.

He'll need extensive therapy after that experience. wink

Snazzy
_________________________
Semper Gumby: Always flexible \:^)

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#1411994 - 04/06/10 04:51 AM Re: Yamaha AvantGrand N2 vs. similar priced Yamaha upright? [Re: Volusiano]
Chris H. Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/14/05
Posts: 2837
Loc: UK.
Originally Posted By: Volusiano
Originally Posted By: Chris H.
I'm sorry but you can't call yourself a serious pianist and then complain about having to have the thing tuned a couple of times a year. Is that your priority? If so then go check your electricity bill after spending 30 hours a week on your DP.

I did the calculation on how much electricity I would pay to play the N3 for 30 hours a week. At 500W (unlike most other DPs who average less than 100W), that's 60kWH a month for 120 hrs, and my rate is 6.6c/kWH, so that comes out to about $4/month on electricity cost on the N3, or under $50 a year. Can I get 2 tunings/year for $25/tuning?

I use the N3 on headphones for 1/2 the time, so my N3 wouldn't be running at the full 500W all the times because the amps will sit at idle in headphones mode. And I don't use 30 hours/week, more like 21 hours/week (at 3 hours a day max). So adjusting for these factors, my annual cost is actually around $17/year of electricity to operate the N3.


Don't forget that the real grand action will need regulating often to keep it up to your high standards.

Also, as I have already mentioned the biggest cost will be massive depreciation.
_________________________
Pianist and piano teacher.

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#1412002 - 04/06/10 05:26 AM Re: Yamaha AvantGrand N2 vs. similar priced Yamaha upright? [Re: Chris H.]
Volusiano Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/01/10
Posts: 770
Originally Posted By: Chris H.
Don't forget that the real grand action will need regulating often to keep it up to your high standards.

Are you implying that upright action never needs to be regulated at all? It shouldn't be any different or more often than upright regulation. And not often as in twice a year tuning. Maybe once every few years, if you play a lot, and only if problems arise. At least the N2 never needs to be voiced and tuned.

Originally Posted By: Chris H.
Also, as I have already mentioned the biggest cost will be massive depreciation.

And I've also already mentioned that I would worry more about depreciation of acoustic uprights even today than depreciation of the N2 5 years from now. I don't even know why you feel the need to keep beating on this dead horse when we've already killed it several posts ago. It's simpler to just agree to disagree at this point.

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#1412004 - 04/06/10 05:50 AM Re: Yamaha AvantGrand N2 vs. similar priced Yamaha upright? [Re: Volusiano]
EssBrace Online   content
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/01/09
Posts: 2322
Loc: Suffolk, United Kingdom
I agree...the basic topic is a dead horse. This always happens when an acoustic piano aficionado strays onto the forum. We are here because we like DPs/keyboards/synths etc. It's just a waste of everybody's time for someone to preach about their OPINION of the superiority of certain acoustic pianos.

If I could get myself an AG I would be very very happy to have it. I would not cross the street to own ANY upright piano. No one is going to persuade me otherwise and I dare say I will not persuade certain individuals of what I consider to be the superiority of the AG to ANY upright piano.

However, the idea that the upright piano is as worthy and valid and relevant as a grand piano is laughable. The upright was born out of a need to emulate a real (grand) piano but at much lower cost and with a much smaller footprint. Those people that link to the odd YouTube vid where a decent musician gets a decent tune out of an upright: well done, very convincing. Now show me a video of Horowitz or Agerich or Ashkenazy or Billy Joel or Elton John or Diana Krall or indeed any top notch piano player playing an upright by choice.

The philosophical argument about Digital v Acoustic can rage on for years to come. But surely no one is seriously saying an upright piano has a future? Grands yes for another generation at least, but uprights are already dead in the water.

Steve
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Yamaha CP1

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#1412134 - 04/06/10 10:42 AM Re: Yamaha AvantGrand N2 vs. similar priced Yamaha upright? [Re: EssBrace]
Chris H. Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/14/05
Posts: 2837
Loc: UK.
You are joking aren't you Steve?

As far as I was aware this is a public forum where anyone is free to comment.

By the way, I am not an 'acoustic' piano aficionado. I am simply a pianist and a piano teacher who has a lot of experience with both acoustic and digital instruments. The OP asked for opinions on the N2 vs a Yamaha upright and I happen to have spent time with both these pianos. I offered my opinion which I am entitled to thanks very much.

If you guys want to waste your money on an N2 then good luck to you. You can impress your mates and bang on about its 'grand piano action'. Unfortunately what you will have is not a grand piano, it's just an expensive digital which will be obsolete far sooner than any acoustic upright.

It's clear that none of you are prepared to listen to any opinions that differ with your own in which case I will leave you to play nicely on your forum.
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#1412193 - 04/06/10 12:07 PM Re: Yamaha AvantGrand N2 vs. similar priced Yamaha upright? [Re: Chris H.]
nan Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/12/04
Posts: 140
Loc: San Francisco
Originally Posted By: Chris H.
Originally Posted By: nan
-- so Chris, grand touch action matters a lot to me because I can't afford a grand. I think that's why a lot of us like DP's. The action on the DP I had before my CLP 990 was awful. I love my 990 but am very interested in seeing how it compares to the AG 2.


If you can afford an AvantGrand then you can afford a nice used acoustic grand. If you don't have the space for one then buy yourself a good upright. Or stick with the 990 and save a packet. It won't sound much different to the AG anyway.



On this forum, some have paid a little over $8,000 (to $10,000) for the AGN2. The last time I was looking, I didn't find an upright that I liked for that amount. Basically, I'd prefer a good acoustic grand first, of course, Chris you're right about that. But my experience with Boston grands makes me hesitant. Where I take lessons, they bought four brand new Bostons grands about five years ago. Only one of them sounds good to me and all of them get routinely tuned. Two of them sound very bright and not as good at all as my 990 (with headphones admittedly). How do I know what I'm going to get when I buy an acoustic grand which would have to be at the lower end for double what I have to pay for the AGN2? So I'm very interested in an excellent digital with good touch and if it gives me the feel of a good grand, so much the better.

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#1412209 - 04/06/10 12:30 PM Re: Yamaha AvantGrand N2 vs. similar priced Yamaha upright? [Re: nan]
Karnevil Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/17/06
Posts: 154
Wow.... that's many pages with lots of opinions.. smile I'll try to find a store with an N2 AvantGrand. Again, my problem with the digitals so far (though mostly top level stage pianos), is that I can't find a connection with the instrument. It's soo unsatisfying. I'm no classical concert pianist. Mostly jazz stuff, and some classical on the side to maintain and improve technique.
All this talk about key action and sound. The thing is, they have to be connected, and there has to be a sense of life and detail to the sound when playing. Most digitals sound rather dead to me. But hopefully this AvantGrand series is better..
We'll see.. smile
I agree with the upright comments, but I much prefer practicing on an good upright to a Yamaha CP300, Roland RD700GX, Kawai MP9500 (ok, this one is better than the others, but no cigar) etc.. Haven't had too much experience with Clavinovas. Have tried them out in stores, and wasn't too impressed...

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