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#1414941 - 04/10/10 07:20 PM Re: Yamaha AvantGrand N2 vs. similar priced Yamaha upright? [Re: Karnevil]
nan Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/12/04
Posts: 140
Loc: San Francisco
Reading over the comments and especially 4evr88 above, makes me think the AG is much superior to other Yamaha digitals. As I mentioned in a previous thread, I've got a 990 clp and wondered how it compares to the AG. What I'm wondering now is the keyboard as 4ever88 describes it sounds really superior to mine. The 990 is very good but it's also stiff and I don't notice much difference between the touch settings on the 990. What I don't like on the 990 are the pedals and how it sounds without the headphones. Be interested to hear comments on the comparisons.

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#1415028 - 04/10/10 11:19 PM Re: Yamaha AvantGrand N2 vs. similar priced Yamaha upright? [Re: nan]
4evrBeginR Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/27/09
Posts: 1604
Loc: California
Yeah, the Avant-Grand has a real grand piano action. That's either the most brilliant thing Yamaha did or the engineers simply threw up their hands and said why not just use a real wooden acoustic grand piano action they have been making for 100 years instead of trying so hard to simulate one. Having the TRS system to vibrate the keys is nice, since the hammers strike some rod instead of vibrating strings. The pedals are build just like an acoustic grand with its string and levers at the buttom of the piano. It's so cool; only if the keyboard would shift to the right with the una corda pedal. Maybe that messes up the alignment of the optical sensors.

The Avant Grand only has 5 voices compared to the CLP-990's 25. Technically, the full 88-note sampling are much more sophisticated than the CLP-990, but of course the CLP-990 is probably more fun with marimba, vibraphone and so many other instrument voices. The AG is a piano. I don't think it's more sophisticated than other Yamaha digitals at all. The CVP products are amazing, which the AG just can't compare. Also, the AG doesn't have Internet connectivity and its keys do not move by themselves when playing back something like the Modus F11.
_________________________
Art is never finished, only abandoned. - da Vinci

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#1416250 - 04/13/10 05:08 AM Re: Yamaha AvantGrand N2 vs. similar priced Yamaha upright? [Re: 4evrBeginR]
athomik Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/04/07
Posts: 299
Loc: England
Originally Posted By: 4evr88
Yeah, the Avant-Grand has a real grand piano action. That's either the most brilliant thing Yamaha did or the engineers simply threw up their hands and said why not just use a real wooden acoustic grand piano action they have been making for 100 years instead of trying so hard to simulate one.


Yamaha have been making digital pianos with wooden piano actions since 1996. The GranTouch range came as plain digital pianos (Grand & Upright) as well as Disklavier type pianos. The concept of the action was very similar to that found on the Avant Grand, although it has been developed further for the AG to make it even closer to an acoustic grand piano action.
_________________________
Adrian Thomas
Service Engineer - Hybrid Pianos & Strings

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#1566330 - 11/29/10 11:47 AM Re: Yamaha AvantGrand N2 vs. similar priced Yamaha upright? [Re: sucroid]
B. Michels Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/26/10
Posts: 79
Originally Posted By: polygon
Originally Posted By: snazzyplayer
[quote=Volusiano]

I await the next generation N-series,....


NAMM 2011? wink



Any more recent news about this "NEW VERSION" of AvantGrand ? I really don't want to buy one now and hear few weeks after about it's successor !

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#1567007 - 11/30/10 10:07 AM Re: Yamaha AvantGrand N2 vs. similar priced Yamaha upright? [Re: B. Michels]
athomik Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/04/07
Posts: 299
Loc: England
As polygon sez: NAMM2011 wink
_________________________
Adrian Thomas
Service Engineer - Hybrid Pianos & Strings

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#1567415 - 11/30/10 07:50 PM Re: Yamaha AvantGrand N2 vs. similar priced Yamaha upright? [Re: Karnevil]
Melodialworks Music Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/19/05
Posts: 1309
Loc: Canada
And I was assured when I purchased my N3 this past summer that there would NOT be any new AvantGrand offerings at NAMM 2011. Time will tell!
_________________________
Melodialworks Music
Yamaha C3X
Yamaha CP300 + Omnisphere
Yamaha NU1 + Production Grand

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#1568204 - 12/01/10 09:10 PM Re: Yamaha AvantGrand N2 vs. similar priced Yamaha upright? [Re: B. Michels]
jeff749z Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/08/10
Posts: 31
Loc: United States
I was just thinking this tonight. However, the sound and experience of playing and writing on Avant Grand is as close as it gets. I prefer it over any upright I've ever played and most real grands. It is the best. I've owned it for 6 months now.
_________________________
Avant Grand N2
www.jeffkinder.com

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#1568205 - 12/01/10 09:13 PM Re: Yamaha AvantGrand N2 vs. similar priced Yamaha upright? [Re: 4evrBeginR]
jeff749z Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/08/10
Posts: 31
Loc: United States
Originally Posted By: 4evr88
Yeah, the Avant-Grand has a real grand piano action. That's either the most brilliant thing Yamaha did or the engineers simply threw up their hands and said why not just use a real wooden acoustic grand piano action they have been making for 100 years instead of trying so hard to simulate one. Having the TRS system to vibrate the keys is nice, since the hammers strike some rod instead of vibrating strings. The pedals are build just like an acoustic grand with its string and levers at the buttom of the piano. It's so cool; only if the keyboard would shift to the right with the una corda pedal. Maybe that messes up the alignment of the optical sensors.

The Avant Grand only has 5 voices compared to the CLP-990's 25. Technically, the full 88-note sampling are much more sophisticated than the CLP-990, but of course the CLP-990 is probably more fun with marimba, vibraphone and so many other instrument voices. The AG is a piano. I don't think it's more sophisticated than other Yamaha digitals at all. The CVP products are amazing, which the AG just can't compare. Also, the AG doesn't have Internet connectivity and its keys do not move by themselves when playing back something like the Modus F11.


The four channel sampling differentiates it from all the rest.
_________________________
Avant Grand N2
www.jeffkinder.com

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#1568651 - 12/02/10 01:57 PM Re: Yamaha AvantGrand N2 vs. similar priced Yamaha upright? [Re: Karnevil]
B. Michels Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/26/10
Posts: 79
Now I'm getting nervous tbuying a N2 or N3: A large french dealer told me that he cannot get anymore N2 or N3 from Yamaha because they will be replaced them in february, and that he saw the prototype of the N1, which is supposed to be the less expensive of the 3 models. The guy said that he saw it and that is is a "small N2" with a simplified piano mechanism action.

I am just wondering if this NEW model will have a NEW sound database, and if therefore the 2 older models may also have their sound database updated. (with the new modeling technology used in the CP1 ?)

I'm really nervous buying a N2 or N3 now and then, 1 month later, hearing about a new or updated version :-(

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#1568661 - 12/02/10 02:10 PM Re: Yamaha AvantGrand N2 vs. similar priced Yamaha upright? [Re: Karnevil]
MacMacMac Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/24/09
Posts: 3667
Loc: North Carolina
Why would Yamaha not want to sell more of these low-volume, high-priced units?

If a salesman said that he cannot get them anymore, it makes me wonder about that dealer.

I wouldn't worry about a (putative) new model coming out. There will always be a new model. Maybe you could use the new model release to help you get a better price on the "old" model ... if you can find one.

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#1568825 - 12/02/10 06:17 PM Re: Yamaha AvantGrand N2 vs. similar priced Yamaha upright? [Re: Karnevil]
Melodialworks Music Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/19/05
Posts: 1309
Loc: Canada
My understanding is that the N2 and N3 models are selling reasonably well. There is basically no competition - if you want an acoustic action in a digital - this is the way to go.
_________________________
Melodialworks Music
Yamaha C3X
Yamaha CP300 + Omnisphere
Yamaha NU1 + Production Grand

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#1568989 - 12/02/10 10:43 PM Re: Yamaha AvantGrand N2 vs. similar priced Yamaha upright? [Re: Karnevil]
MacMacMac Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/24/09
Posts: 3667
Loc: North Carolina
Have you seen any sales figures?

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#1569012 - 12/02/10 11:47 PM Re: Yamaha AvantGrand N2 vs. similar priced Yamaha upright? [Re: MacMacMac]
Volusiano Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/01/10
Posts: 770
Originally Posted By: MacMacMac
Have you seen any sales figures?
I don't have any sales figures but I ran into the salesman that sold me my N3 a few months ago and he said that he's been able to sell several N2 and N3 after he sold his first N3 to me. He has no problem moving them. And they've been out only a little more than a year.

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#1569018 - 12/03/10 12:00 AM Re: Yamaha AvantGrand N2 vs. similar priced Yamaha upright? [Re: B. Michels]
Volusiano Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/01/10
Posts: 770
Originally Posted By: B. Michels
Now I'm getting nervous tbuying a N2 or N3: A large french dealer told me that he cannot get anymore N2 or N3 from Yamaha because they will be replaced them in february, and that he saw the prototype of the N1, which is supposed to be the less expensive of the 3 models. The guy said that he saw it and that is is a "small N2" with a simplified piano mechanism action.

I am just wondering if this NEW model will have a NEW sound database, and if therefore the 2 older models may also have their sound database updated. (with the new modeling technology used in the CP1 ?)

I'm really nervous buying a N2 or N3 now and then, 1 month later, hearing about a new or updated version :-(
I can see Yamaha coming out with an N1 that is a smaller/less expensive version of the N2 and N3. Just by looking at the way they name/number them, it's almost as if the N1 has already been part of the original plan all along, just with a much later release date.

If this is the case, the N1 is probably not intended as a replacement for the N2 or N3, but only as a supplement to fill the gap in the lower price market between $5K-$10K. As thus, there's probably not going to be much ground breaking update in the new release. This is just my guess, of course.

I seriously doubt that they would discontinue the N2 and N3 only a year or so after their introduction and replace them altogether with an inferior and cheaper N1. It doesn't make any sense since they've spent years of R&D money to develop the technology and deliver these products. So why discontinue something so soon and not try to milk the fruit of your labor as much as you can?

Maybe your French dealer cannot get the N2 or N3 anymore from Yamaha because he's already sold off all his allowed quota of those units, and he doesn't want you to take your business elsewhere, so he's just saying that so you will wait on the N1 and buy the N1 from him. I would go ask other dealers in the area at least to confirm his story first before I believe him.

If I were you, I would sit tight and wait for more news before making a purchase decision. It's just too muddy right now and I agree that you don't want to have buyer's remorse if you act hastily.

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#1570214 - 12/04/10 05:40 PM Re: Yamaha AvantGrand N2 vs. similar priced Yamaha upright? [Re: Karnevil]
B. Michels Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/26/10
Posts: 79
Well, here is another dealer, German this time, that show "CATALOG SUSPENDED" for the Avantgrand !???

http://www.organstudio.co.uk/acatalog/avantgrand.html

Intriguing isn't it ????

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#1570219 - 12/04/10 05:46 PM Re: Yamaha AvantGrand N2 vs. similar priced Yamaha upright? [Re: Karnevil]
Kawai James Online   content
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 8382
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
That's a UK company, based in Edinburgh, Scotland, not Germany.

Moreover, the website is clearly out of date - as indicated by the text in the top left:

Quote:
Edinburgh Organ Studio is now called Key Player

This website is no longer live - Please visit our new website

www.key-player.co.uk


The respective Avant Grand N3 page on the new website simply lists the instrument as 'Out of Stock' - not 'Discontinued'.

Cheers,
James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

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#1570244 - 12/04/10 06:30 PM Re: Yamaha AvantGrand N2 vs. similar priced Yamaha upright? [Re: Karnevil]
MacMacMac Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/24/09
Posts: 3667
Loc: North Carolina
Every single product on http://www.organstudio.co.uk/acatalog/avantgrand.html is marked CATALOG SUSPENDED, not just the AG. smile

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#1570322 - 12/04/10 08:46 PM Re: Yamaha AvantGrand N2 vs. similar priced Yamaha upright? [Re: MacMacMac]
Melodialworks Music Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/19/05
Posts: 1309
Loc: Canada
What does "CATALOG SUSPENDED" suspended even mean?
_________________________
Melodialworks Music
Yamaha C3X
Yamaha CP300 + Omnisphere
Yamaha NU1 + Production Grand

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#1570546 - 12/05/10 10:01 AM Re: Yamaha AvantGrand N2 vs. similar priced Yamaha upright? [Re: Karnevil]
MacMacMac Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/24/09
Posts: 3667
Loc: North Carolina
I guess it means that the catalog of goods is no longer active. That is, you can't buy their stuff anymore. (Why don't they just take down that web site???)

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#1801723 - 12/06/11 10:29 PM Re: Yamaha AvantGrand N2 vs. similar priced Yamaha upright? [Re: Karnevil]
jivemutha Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/05/06
Posts: 528
Loc: Portland, OR
I've had the AG experience twice--once with an N3 and once with an N2. I played them completely ignorant of the fact that they were supposed to be the latest hottest thing.

Through Bose headphones the N3 sounded great. (I never got to try the N2 with headphones). Through their speakers (as opposed to headphones) it was clear that both sounded way better than a P95, etc. Unquestionably the technology is improving!

However, without being told how terrific they were supposed to be, they still sounded like a recording of a piano, albeit a great one. To my ear, something was still missing.

My circumstances demanded the need for headphone playing(apartment setting). In the end I got a silent U3 (U3SG). When the headphones are unplugged, it sounds like a real piano--not the best piano, but a real piano. It's like the difference between being in the presence of a pretty girl versus looking at a poster of Michelle Pfeiffer.

From this thread it's clear we all hear sound a little differently. We want our subjective impression to be supported by evidence but in the end it ain't so. Perhaps it's best that we go with our own ears rather than be swayed by the words of others. When we play, whether it's on an AG or a Yamaha upright, it's only through our own ears that we get to hear the music.

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#1801734 - 12/06/11 10:48 PM Re: Yamaha AvantGrand N2 vs. similar priced Yamaha upright? [Re: jivemutha]
kippesc Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/30/09
Posts: 395
Loc: United States
Did you try the $1,500 to $2,500 Roland Supernaturals (good sound)? Did you try the Kawai MP10 or CA93 (great action)? Did you plug those keyboards into a software piano and use headphones of high quality (not Bose, which I do own)? The U3 is fine. But I once owned a U5, and I'm not sure I miss it. When I do, I just load up the Ivory II U5 and refresh my memory -- using Sennheiser HD-600s.
_________________________
Steinway B
Yamaha AvantGrand N2
Roland RD-700NX

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#1801771 - 12/07/11 12:13 AM Re: Yamaha AvantGrand N2 vs. similar priced Yamaha upright? [Re: jivemutha]
36251 Online   content
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/12/10
Posts: 646
Originally Posted By: jivemutha
It's like the difference between being in the presence of a pretty girl versus looking at a poster of Michelle Pfeiffer.


I've owned my N2 for a couple weeks now and I have a different take on your analogy. I gave up one of the best sounding uprights (steinway K) for the AG and too me the AG is like being involved with the pretty woman versus only sitting next to a pretty woman (the K.)

The K might of sounded great but the action did not inspire me like the AG always seems to do. I easily get lost in the presence of the experience of playing the real thing that gets tuned before each gig. Let's face it when you record in a studio or play in a large venue you hear the piano through monitors and not acoustically. The AG is like playing a gig at Town Hall with a trio.

I'll also never regret owning the Steinway either, cause it's a great instrument that I was able to use for many years and still got my investment back, which allowed me to buy the expensive AG. I know the AG won't hold its value as well but who cares if it makes me a better pianist.
_________________________
AvantGrand N2, FP-4, Gallien-Krueger MK & MP

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#1801845 - 12/07/11 06:12 AM Re: Yamaha AvantGrand N2 vs. similar priced Yamaha upright? [Re: 36251]
Dave Horne Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/07/04
Posts: 5260
Loc: Vught, The Netherlands
I know the AG won't hold its value as well but who cares if it makes me a better pianist.

Wait five years until the next generation is introduced and trade in your N2. You might be surprised how much you receive.

I was amazed how much the dealer gave me for my 12 year old GranTouch. Pianos for me are just tools to get the job done, I don't have a relationship with them. Love them and leave them.
_________________________
website

mp3\wav files

AvantGrand N3, CP5

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#2133172 - 08/15/13 06:30 AM Re: Yamaha AvantGrand N2 vs. similar priced Yamaha upright? [Re: 4evrBeginR]
pv88 Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/31/10
Posts: 2474
Originally Posted By: 4evrBeginR
The Avant Grand only has 5 voices compared to the CLP-990's 25. Technically, the full 88-note sampling are much more sophisticated than the CLP-990 ...


Just so everyone knows the older CLP-990 also has "88-note sampling" just like the AvantGrand and I happen to like the main "Grand Piano 1" sound in the 990 better than any digital I have played on so far.

And, as for "nan" above I think that one has to try the AvantGrand themselves to determine if they might like model "A" over "B." Since I also own a CLP-990M (which has a very good piano sound and action) it certainly would be okay if "nan" decides to keep the CLP-990 as well.

I know of one other member here (i.e., Kona_V-Piano) who prefers the sound of the CLP-990 over the AvantGrand N3. This may be a subjective opinion although every player is free to choose what they like best.

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#2133183 - 08/15/13 07:11 AM Re: Yamaha AvantGrand N2 vs. similar priced Yamaha upright? [Re: Karnevil]
Pete14 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/12/13
Posts: 187
I believe that preferring one piano (sound) over another is subjective... only to a certain degree. I don't know of many people who would prefer the sound of a $6,000 grand over a Steinway B. The fact that many people prefer the sound and action of the CLP 990 over newer, more expensive YAMAHA models says a lot in terms of how YAMAHA has been watering-down their products. The AVANTGRAND is good; however, it could've been better: Physical modeling, 6-footer action, damper-mechanism simulation, etc... I believe that once KAWAI and Roland went 88 (key-sampling) they never went back to stretching, yet YAMAHA did; CLP 990: 88. CLP 380/480: not!

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#2133717 - 08/16/13 06:26 AM Re: Yamaha AvantGrand N2 vs. similar priced Yamaha upright? [Re: Karnevil]
Michael_99 Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/28/12
Posts: 935
Loc: Canada Alberta
Karnevil, I have read your post, here:

What are you thoughts on the playability/key action, sound, note-seperation/clarity, detail/nuances concerning the AvantGrand N2, and a similar priced Yamaha upright, acoustic piano?

Piano will be used for both classical stuff and jazz.

Thanks!

________________________________________________

I am a beginner - so you will be guided by the opinions of advanced piano players.

The questions to ask yourself are:

Have you played an acoustic piano?

Have you played a digital piano with weighted keys?

Are acoustic pianos and digital pianos with weighted keys remotely the same?

You can play jazz and classical music on any kind of piano - even broken pianos - but the question to ask yourself is: If I want to be a professional musician, how good of a piano do I need to play everyday as a student and as a professional musician.

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