Since you all are on the subject of bass strings, (didn’t want to highjack the other thread ) the low bass on my Tokai G180 (5’10”) grand is a little thin and not as bold as I would like. The strings look very good, almost new. I recently loosened the pins and gave them a full twist in the direction of the coil in hopes of improving the tone. If there was any improvement at all, it wasn’t much.

How can I get a richer, deeper bass tone in the low bass of my piano? New bass strings? New hammers? Both? Or is it just the tone character of that particular piano? The piano is probably 20 to 25 years old.

I want the low bass of a Baldwin! (Too much to ask, I know. )

Thanks.

Rick

On very old pianos with the tubby sound, I've had good luck with loop-cleaning the bass strings. Loosen the string, unhook from the hitchpin, make a loop in the string and run the loop up and down the length of the string. This cleans out the crud in the coils and brings back some life to dead strings.

In your case, new hammers and strings would probably improve things somewhat. But if you want the Baldwin sound, you're going to have to just buy one!

Thanks for the response, Rob!

When I loosened the bass strings and gave them a twist, I honestly didn’t think about the loop trick at the time. I read about that in the Reblitz book. Like I said, my bass strings look really good and clean. I guess you can’t really go by looks. I honestly don’t want to loosen the pins again if I can help it, unless I get new bass strings. They are good and tight, but I don’t want to wear out the block.

The low bass is not bad, just not as good as I’d like. I will say though, that new bass strings and hammers would probably be a lot less expensive than trading up; my fear is that the outcome may not be as much of an improvement as I thought.

Thanks again!

Rick

Rick, replacing the bass strings may make a substantial improvement. When we supply rescaled sets of bass strings to our technician/rebuilder clients, one of the first things we address is reviewing the original scale design of the piano. (the core steel wire diameter and its corresponding copper wrap, in relation to the length of the string). Usually, significant improvements can be made.
Before committing to changing the strings, have a paper rubbing made up and take some sample measurements of the bass strings in the piano. I can even walk you through this. I (or whichever bass string manufacturer) can then calculate whether a significant improvement is possible.

You ultimately have to involve a tech if you go ahead and change some/all your bass strings, but we can start the ball rolling if you like.

Good luck!

The tone you are getting may well be all that the piano is capable of producing, apart from invasive measures such as relocating the bridge, or altering the soundboard.

It is hard to say. There is always the option of making the investment of a new set of strings (and hammers??) to see if there is more potential in the instrument.

But remember, it is not a Steinway or a Baldwin and as such one cannot justifiably expect the performance of that kind of instrument.

It is true that this piano is neither a Steinway nor a Baldwin. However it can probably be made to sound some better than it does now.

John’s suggestion is a good one. Find someone who can do a credible job of evaluating the scale for you. Take John up on his offer! There may be substantial improvements that can be made by improving the bass string scaling. (And a completely unsolicited recommendation: he makes good strings!)

It has been a while since I have Tokai scale but, if memory serves, the physical layout is pretty much generic Steinway copy. In that size piano this means a relatively short backscale. Along with improving the scaling of the speaking lengths you might consider changing the loop design to the so-called “European,” or “German” loop. This has the effect of lengthening the backscale without repositioning the bass bridge.

Once the strings are properly scaled you might consider better hammers. Again, my somewhat imprecise memory of Tokai pianos is one of relatively dense, hard-pressed hammers. Something with a little more bounce should also help.

ddf

Wow, I didn’t expect such superb advice, and from some well-known super-pros’! Thanks guys!

Yes, the Tokai G-180 is pretty much a copy of the older Steinway “O” from what I can tell. The harp looks exactly like the S&S “O”. The original hammers are a little hard but have responded fairly well to needling. I believe the hammers were called “Royal George felt”, whatever that means. I’ve read that the action may have been built by Renner, but I don’t see the Renner name anywhere on the action. The action seems to be made of good quality parts, and I have pounded the heck out of it and it is still as responsive as ever.

The overall tone of the piano is a little on the bright side, but tolerable. I’ve heard other, better known brands just as bright or brighter. And, I’ve played some Yamaha grands where the bass sounded similar to my Tokai, a little thin and less mellow.

So, I reckon the ball is in my court now to take action or not.

Thanks a lot gentlemen!! I appreciate it!

Rick