I ask because I know some of my neighbors had their kids taking lessons not too long ago and now they are not.

I assume that the turnover ratio is pretty high but Im not 100% on that.

And I used to take electric guitar also and was driving past my teacher's modest house (I say modest because it is and you would think it wasn't very much of a mortgage) was up for sale!?! I hope he went on to bigger and better things but going back to my high turn over as a local music teacher, I am thinking he couldnt afford to live there any more.

I think if your studio is losing students at a high rate, there is something wrong with the teaching or lack of teaching.

I have been gaining students, mostly transfer students, because they were complaining that other teachers were not listening to them. Since my studio is not competition-based, my students tend to be here for their enjoyment. I do occasionally have students that want to prepare for auditions (voice) for musicals.

What I have found out is that some teachers refuse to change their way of doing business and go along of how the music world is changing around us. Like any profession, a teacher, especially independent teachers, have to deal with change every few months.

I agree that if you have a high turnover rate, you're not doing something right. There will always be a bit of drop off when students reach middle school (want to do more school activities), graduate high school, and the case of just losing interest. I would say for me, I usually have most of my kids continue after taking a summer break. With the economy the way it is, I've lost a few adult students. However, I also have a waiting list as I was not willing to replace those students that left due to wanting to cut back my student load. When I'm ready to start adding more students, probably in May or June, I don't think I'll have any trouble filling those spots.

I have been running my own studio for 11 years, 10 of those where teaching was my main source of income. There have been lean times where I've had to add school jobs to make some money, or do accompanying, or part-time non-music related jobs, but it's been quite stable overall.

One other thing about turnover rate. I find that as I got more selective of my students and raised my rates a bit, I have a higher retention rate from year to year. When I was just starting out, I'd take anyone who wanted lessons, which was note necessarily wise, but one of those lessons I had to learn on my own. This helped shaped who I am as a teacher and how I choose to run my business after all.

Well, I live in an area with way too many piano teachers, including a bunch of really good piano teachers. There are only so many kids in a given area that takes piano lessons, so you can do the math.

I would hesitate to judge a teacher's teaching based on the turnover rate. Test results and recital performances are far better indicators of teaching quality.

I think many factors should be considered if you are a teacher: competition/saturation in the market, how many years students stay on average, and achievement and playing ability of the students.

I find this extremely insulting and offensive.

Like other posters have said the turnover rate in my studio is very low, most students stay with me for years and I have a lengthy waiting list. If you have a high turnover then I would sy that is a sign of poor teaching.

Chris, why do you think this is offensive or insulting? Lots of people surmise about the financial condition of people they know. I think it's difficult to afford a lot of things, including houses, if you're a piano teacher. And most of your students never know you struggle.

I think it's the OP's description of "bigger and better things" than teaching guitar. I wanted to say something about that, too.

I thought that "bigger and better things" meant a bigger and better house. Maybe I'm not good at reading between the lines. Honestly though, I've wondered how viable being a music teacher is as a full-time job with a family depending on you. My area is very saturated with piano teachers, some of whom offer very low rates. It'd be hard to compete if you don't have an already established reputation. The parents are often rather demanding and they will often switch teachers if they see another child progressing faster than theirs.

I meant what Frozen said, bigger and better being bigger and better house and opportunities open to him. He doesnt teach guitar alone and does "gigs" so I was hoping that that was the case because the house looked empty.

Honestly I could care less what a person does for a living, as long as it makes them happy and takes care of their needs good on them.

Even if it doens't take care of needs (usually it doesn't take care of wants, but basic needs are met if one reduces what they "need"). I think happiness in a vocation is way underappreciated. Many people assume that a private music teacher does this for fun. Even amongst other self-employed professionals there is a sense that we don't really work and we must be doing this on the side. I had one accountant refuse to let me write off my grand piano purchase because I also play it for "fun". I asked her how else would I be able to teach if I did not myself practice? We're not talking about a car that may be used for grocery shopping as well as driving to a musical event. The piano is a tool of the trade. And where do you draw the line between what's done for teaching vs. my own enjoyment? Especially since I love to teach! Do I not deserve tax benefits because I happen to *like* what I do? Must work intrinsically be boring/stressful/tedious/non-creative in order to be considered work?

I often tell my students that are considering what major to choose in college, is that the most important thing is that they choose something they are passionate about, and not worry about making money. One can always get a 2nd job (or 3rd, which I have done in lean times) in order to make it work. But to find a career in something you love is priceless and will last a lifetime.

Yikes, I hope you wrote that piano off anyway! I play music that I practice for my students. I play music that I assign to my upper level students. Every time I play, it enhances my teaching. I wrote off 95% of the value, per my CPAs instruction.

I think it's important to know that unemployment checks average about $270 per week - a figure I heard on television yesterday. Not much at all for a single person and especially not for a family. So many are unemployed due to no fault of their own.

When I heard that number quoted, I immediately equated it to having 10 -11 students at $25 per lesson - yes a total of about 5 hours per week to produce that income.

I didn't feel so well after comparing my weekly income to that. I don't know how other piano teachers are managing in my community, but I do know that my piano studio went from 25 to 12 when I moved (a distance of 7 miles, but a huge traffic stagnation involved)in October 2006 and it has not gotten above the 12 and sometimes is less than 12. So, in my 39th year of teaching, I am earning the equivalent of a weekly unemployment check.

Shopping at 2 music retailers yesterday, the manager of one shared with me that his business, where I have been shopping since 1982, is having trouble paying the bills because parents are not paying their instrument rentals which has always provided a huge profit to the store. But, the elementary school music program was reduced last September from having band/orchestra/choral specialists in every elementary school, middle school and high school. The elementary program is now located in one school before school starts in the morning and there are not very many participants. And, at these two stores, piano music is given very limited floor space. They say, "We can order that for you" which means a week or two before it comes in. Well, we can order music online from our computers and have it arrive in probably less time.

At the same time, many people have started giving piano lessons as an attempt with the family budget. The "melting pot" for piano teachers has gotten much bigger and there is no way for a consumer to know what they are buying with their investment going into the lessons. The "criteria" seems to be only "How much do you charge"? and "Where are you located?"

All who teach piano are not music education professionals with a track record, reputation and adequate preparation to be a teacher.

Parents and students need to smarten up.

So I think the economy is affecting us all. Some of us in "earthquake" proportions.

Betty

I'm way ahead of that curve, then. My studio doubled this year (had to even turn some students away) and my income, even after taxes, is quite a bit more than the unemployment check amount.

Must be different all over.

Also, there are areas in which families move in and out, changing jobs. You can't use the same measuring stick for my area, South Florida, as you would for a rural area where families are much likly to move.

I have also lost students to competing teachers whose teaching was/is horrendous. In some case I have gotten them, with their parents sort of returning with the "tails between their legs".

It is. My situation is more like Betty's, but because I have to pay bills, I have no choice but to teach people I would not have considered teaching a couple years ago. When the economy in an area goes off "off the cliff", the results magnify in ways you would never think of in good years. No one is spending money (in general), everyone is scared, wages are frozen, health care costs are going through the roof.

So if you are flourishing, most likely you are in an area that has not been severely impacted by the economy. Count yourself lucky.

Unemployment is more than 12% here and I have no complaints. I don't buy the economy excuse, in fact I don't buy any excuse. I know teachers here with a long waiting list. It can be done. A teacher is self employed just like any other businessperson. How many teachers have business or marketing training, or have read a marketing book? For those who are slow, I feel for you, but I would suggest a trip to the library and read up on some books in the business section. Spend some of those slow hours learning low cost methods of how to market yourselves and drive new business your way.

For those with a high turnover rate, I'd suggest calling past students and ask them why they left. Then adjust your teaching methods accordingly. A customer today told me they left a teacher because she had a "screachy voice and kept talking about her divorce". Listen to your customers. Learn from your customers. They ARE your business.

If there are good teachers in your area, become better than them. If customers need certain hours, types of training, or need you to come to their house, do it, and do it better than anyone else, and do it at a profit.

The main difference due to the poor economy is we have to work harder and smarter.

The economy where I live (central CA) is bad (18.2% unemployment). All of California is bad. I am, however, pretty selective of the students and families with which I work. I have developed a reputation as a high standards teacher and I tend to get more serious families. People can often find the money for things they consider priorities.

I turned down some students this past fall because I didn't feel comfortable with the child or the family. I was trying to expand my studio because I gave up an accompanying position and I needed to replace the income. I determined I needed a minimum of 4, but ideally 6, students to replace that income. I worried I might be shooting myself in the foot by not accepting those students, but I have not regretted it. Better students/families showed up.

I will admit that I was suprised, given the state of the economy here. Perhaps luck. Perhaps not.

Turnover is not just about students quitting because they are not longer motivated, decide they have found a better teacher, or are bored taking lessons from us because we are failing as teachers.

I lost three students because the father lost his job here and had to move to central Florida. The last time I talked to them, they did not resume lessons because they simply did not have enough money.

I had a wonderful student who was making fantastic progress through spring of last year. In May of 2009, the father lost his job. In September, the mother lost her job. They had leave the state.

I charge by the month, with lessons paid for on the last lesson of each month. I have at least five parents who pay before the first but not on the date of the last lesson because they have not yet gotten paid.

I just had a student return who had to leave for three months because her mother was avalanched by unexpected medical bills.

Three people in my family have lost jobs and have not yet found new ones. In my appartment complex, we have three foreclosures. My wife's salary had been frozen for three years. My neighbor, an architect, has been steam-cleaning roofs and is barely holding on.

While it is true that trying harder helps, and helps a lot, it is rather arrogant to assume that all teachers who are currently experiencing more difficulty keeping a full schedule are somehow inferior teachers, while those who are having good years are successful purely because they are fantastic teachers.

I'm happy that you are having a good year. I think you have been miserably insensitive towards others who are not.

Australia has had no real problem with the economy, but because of the global situation people did think twice for a good six months there, and lazy students had their parents cancel lessons (!) and I'm sure there were students who didn't start in 2009 because their parents thought they'd leave it for another year, save the money in case things went wrong, all that kind of thing.

The impact of reduced instrumental programs in schools must be awful for local retailers who have been catering for that end of the market....

I live in a comparatively well-to-do, highly-educated community with lots of children. This makes my world utterly incomparable with piano teachers I meet who are based in rural communities where drought has impacted on family finances for the best part of a decade. This also makes my world completely different to that of teachers who live in the parts of town where prices of houses have fallen and families find themselves paying a mortgage that is in excess of the current value of their home.

Being a good teacher is only a part of the picture. And I agree, it is miserably insensitive to those whose communities are struggling to blame their teaching for the fact that less students are taking lessons.... I just hope that the US economy begins to pick up sooner than later - it sounds as if things are very tough indeed in some parts of your country.

A local referendum in a neighboring school district didn't pass that would keep music in the public schools. I have a feeling that those parents who do feel music is important will be looking to get their kids in piano lessons since they won't get any music at school. Of course, they will get football.

In our smaller town, the economic downturn has been a bit slower to hit us. I mostly have lost adult students due to them or their spouses losing jobs or have hours cut. I belong to Musiclink which gives benefits to teachers who offer scholarships (at least 50% off their lesson charges) to students. I only have one student on this program, and another student who takes both piano and voice from me needed to have 45 minutes for each, and his father cleans my studio for me twice a month, and they pay for only one 45 minute lesson a week. Making these accommodations has helped, but unfortunately, there wasn't anything I could do to save the adult students who left. I do know, however, that during tough times, people do turn to music and the arts because they know it is important. Also, parents are more willing to sacrifice to make sure their child keeps up with their music lessons because they know how devastating it would be to them to have to stop, whereas an adult student may be more willing (sometimes) to sacrifice their own lessons for a time.

I still have a waiting list of about 7-8 people. Part of this is due to my reputation in the area, but also it's partly due to the fact that I am in a highly visible area. We owned a rental property that had a storefront on the first floor and apartment on the 2nd in our downtown district. People walk and drive by all the time. Moving in there did wonders to my studio and getting my name out there. Also, I didn't used to have my name in the phone book, but ever since I did that, I've gotten a lot more calls. I was surprised to open our phone book and see that only one other teacher and the local conservatory were the only ones who were listed under piano lessons! Unfortunately, we have two competing phone book companies, so I have to be listed in both. Also, I have gotten a few students from websites like www.getlessonsnow.com, but I think having my own webpage has helped as well, and I refer people to it as often as I can. When I have been in need of students, I have placed ads in the local family newspaper. Many of the readers are parents of younger children, but if you can start with a young one at 4 or 5 with some basics and then when they're a bit older get into more piano study, you will be building that child up to love music and stay with you a long time. I think when you start with them young, you get more loyalty from the families.

Perhaps some of these tips will help, perhaps you're already doing them. Sometimes it's good to reevaluate what you're doing and changing it up when things aren't quite going as they used to.

Gary: You are so right. These are tough times. While I personally have not been affected, I know many are. My sister's husband has been out of work for almost 6 months. I had one family quit last spring because mom lost her job and dad's business was down.

I hope things get better for you and for your students and their families.

That statement came out stronger than intended, but meant no disrespect to those struggling. Successful independent teachers are business people first, and are good at finding students and retaining them. A teacher should have a solid system in place to find new students and create a "wait list". A teacher should be flexible and evolve with market changes.

What market changes? Well, how about all the digitals being sold? How about teaching students with a Clavinova how to sound like a one person band - If Chopin isn't paying the bills, try Barry Manilow and Elton John.

My tuning customers are always asking for a teacher who comes to the home. It's more convenient for them, especially if they have 2-3 kids in lessons. They are willing to pay extra for it. Choose a subdivision - most have newsletters, advertise and go for it.

A teacher does not "teach" for a living.

A teacher SELLS piano lessons for a living.

The busy teachers have learned how to sell piano lessons.

My best to all those struggling in this economy.

I have to respond again here. In Washington state, our unemployment rate in King County is around 10%. When I got laid-off 9 years ago, the unemployment rate was 5.8%. Jobs were not as scarce as they are now. I was able to get work, after looking for 2 1/2 years, and also after completing my graduate degree as well in that time-frame. I applied for 180+ jobs before being hired in the school district at 1/4 of the pay I used to make prior to being laid-off.

For every job listed NOW, more than 1000 people apply for it like on Craigslist. One of my friends, who used to be an executive at Weyerhaeuser, has been out of work since last June.

I have at least 3 families that are still in my studio, that have had their spouses lose their jobs and still cannot find jobs. I had two students quit before starting because they lost their jobs. They were adults.

I have been trying to get a waiting list created since 2007, but, in this economy, I cannot.

I think our local economy will become well in four or five years from now. People are more careful spending their disposable money.

For those studios that have waiting lists and not in terrible economies, I'm happy for you. Every few months, I'm thinking of new ways to keep my current students and new ways to diversify my studio.

I'm also part of the MusicLink program as well so I can give discounts to kids with families that have financial issues.

I keep check with all the other new piano teachers that have flooded our market up here. I'm in Betty's area and I know what she is talking about.

Between the competition and the lousy economy, I'm doing great. I use my studio to pay for bills as well. For every payment I get from my studio, it helps.

I know what it is like to work at a large company then be laid-off (first time in my life), then think about how to handle it. Now most of my friends are going through what I went through 9 years ago. It is not fun filling out forms, calling the unemployment office every week to get your check, and maintaining your job log, in case you are audited by the unemployment office. Rejection becomes your friend especially when looking for work. It was very stressful and how to figure out how to pay bills and keep your house. Fortunately my husband was still working and we made the transition well.

Now I'm making almost half what I use to make before I was laid-off. I enjoy my job more and I like being my own boss. I'm now taking care of my husband full-time, who is sick and disabled and he is not working. He has been out of work for two years now. I do not know when and if he will return to work. Now I'm the bread-winner and so I'm very careful on how I run my business. The last two years have been very stressful and our finances have tanked due to the recent financial banking crisis including some of our retirement funds (Non-IRA).

Thank you for letting me explain my story but I have been to the side of being laid-off and now I'm on the other side being the main breadwinner and being a caregiver.

My wife was laid off 14 months ago from a real estate investment firm. With her job went our health insurance. We took a look around and saw that the medical field was hiring. That interested her, and she enrolled in school for medical records/billing. Upon graduation last August, there was a job waiting with health insurance, and she grabbed it. She took a cut in pay, but for us, the lay off was an opportunity - and we took advantage of it. Look for the opportunity. It's there somewhere. Best to everyone.

In response to the market, I've had to "diversify" a great deal.

I moved to an area that already had a saturated market (I compete with three community music schools and several independent music teachers.)

So...I invented new jobs for myself. I have 15 students, am on staff at the university as an accompanist for dance classes, and do a ton of freelance accompanying. (The university's music department does not employ a staff accompanist, so people needing accompanists for their recitals and lessons have to hire other students or people like me. Since students are always too busy to bother with accompanying, that leaves plenty of stuff for me to do.)

Bob is right about one thing, though - and I've gotten the exact same advice from every business owner I've met:

"When you own a business, you're a salesman, no matter what you think..."

I appreciate your tenacity in music teaching, Karen! Thank you for sharing how it is in your community at this particular time.

You are the kind of professional in music teaching who I know is doing an excellent job in their piano studio. And, I know it has been daily progress in building it, as it has also been for me. You continue your on-going education and work hard in every way as I've heard about some of your projects and interests that you've shared with other piano teachers.

The requirement of us at this more difficult economic time is that we not get discouraged but continue to use as time in preparing for the time when things begin to recover for everyone.

For some teachers it's a lifestyle not a job and I've been spending my time resourcing and preparing for when I again have a bigger clientele. All is not lost we have more time to apply ourselves to the things relating to music teaching that we were having trouble finding time to do. I think my life is nicely paced right now to my satisfaction, but I am far from retired despite being of the right age for retirement.

I think we are able to invent and reinvent ourselves many times during our lifetimes. In many ways it is about the survival of the fittest. It takes time for our clients to discover who we are and what we offer and how that compares in the world of music instruction in the community.

Great and realistic posting, Karen!

Hi All

Chiming in a little late on this one. To try and bring things back to the original question, how dependable is it being a piano teacher - it's as dependable as you make it!

I'm very much with Kreisler and Bob on this one.

Three years ago, I married, left 30 students behind in NH and moved to a completely new area where I didn't know anyone and had no connections and no students. I didn't even have a real piano until last fall!

Now I have 25+ students, with more coming all of the time. There is competition - several private teachers in my immediate area, a large lesson program at the regional high school right down the road and many private music schools in the area.

My prices are high for the area and have had only a few students drop out in the last three years. I even mostly limit my enrollment to grades K-8, don't travel and limit my available hours (I do other part time work.) I also live 2 minutes from Worcester, the city with the highest unemployment rate in Massachusetts.

My wife actually LEFT her job (which included health insurance - although we still paid $400 a month) intentionally in January so we could focus more on my music and other work (I do some other music work, web design and work part time for my father).

I am certainly very sympathetic for anyone who has experienced misfortune and hard times due to the economy and factors beyond their control. There are certainly many situations that one can simply not change.

BUT SOME PRACTICAL SOLUTIONS I CAN OFFER ARE:

Read these books
- 7 Habits of Highly Effective People
- 80/20 Principle
- Mavericks at Work
- Made To Stick
- The Truth About Search Engine Optimization
- The Tipping Point (a bit more just entertaining but still useful).

I actually borrowed every one of these books (except for "The Truth...") on audiobook from the local library and listened to them in the car. It was free and took no extra time.

Take what you learned in those books, apply it to these free or inexpensive resources.
- Wordpress or other blogs
- Craigslist
- Some of the other sites, getlessonsnow etc
- Or create a custom webpage for yourself. Hosting/domain names are cheap.
- Word of mouth used properly is very powerful

The above are all TOOLS but the problem is that people usually do not use them correctly and to their full potential. For example, using some basic HTML you can embed links, photos and video into a craigslist ad, as well as format text. You'll have an ad that stands out from the others.

As far as the economy, again, I wish everyone well that has had misfortune but my philosophy on it? Ignore the news! I have not read a newspaper, watched or listened to the news for probably over a year (expect when my wife insists on NPR, which admittedly has some good programming). It's not denial, it's choosing to not focus excess energy on something I can not do anything about.

Good piano teachers are super-hard to find no matter where you go. So if you're good and you know it you can pretty much teach in any area, charge a reasonable amount, and have a line out the door. Suggestions for making it MUCH more dependable:

Get a website with your own URL. Internet is how people find you these days.

Teach some popular and jazz music. "Light music" does not necessarily mean "bad".

Incorporate recording. Digital recording (on computer) is cheap and easy.

Have short recitals at least 1x per year.

Hope I helped.