I have a 6 yr old student who's been playing for a couple years, and we've recently begun working on dotted quarter-eighth rhythms. New rhythm has always been difficult for him to catch on to initially, but usually after several weeks he's able to internalize it.
Needless to say, the dotted quarter notes are a struggle right now. I've tried aural/visual/tactile approaches. We've tried counting "quarter-dot-eighth" while playing, but that doesn't seem to be clicking.
I thought there might be a word or phrase that would help him with this rhythm. Something sports-related or Star Wars-related that would help him. Anybody have any brilliant ideas?

Here's a barrage of ideas... can your student

-count steady 8th notes and clap the rhythm?

-count steady quarters and clay the rhythm?

-do simpler rhythms involving eights while counting the above?

-write in the 8th or quarter note counting in the measures of music themselves?

-can you get the student to do the rhythm without him or her knowing it (ie just have them imitate you, no music reading)?

-have you tried a subtractive approach - write out a measure of 8th notes (to clap) and the counting to go with it. gradually take away certain 8th notes in the rhythm (clapping) but leave the counting (ie take away the fourth 8th note in the measure from the rhythm, then take away the third eighth note in the measure but they're still counting all the eight notes)

-can the student march quarter notes and clap eight notes?

-can the student pick out a correct version of the rhythm with you demonstrating it twice, once correct, once incorrect and the student has to choose which is which.

Also, set up 8 coins on a table evenly spaced in a row (these represent eight 8th notes). Have them tap sequentially with each coin. Then take away certain coins (removing 8th notes) but have them still tap in the air in place of where the coin was and doing a real tap for the coins that are still there.

Essentially I would experiment and dig and dig until I found and isolated things the student seemed to fully "get" or not and usually in this process I discover how to present it so they understand or as a result of all this diagnosing (ahem, "game playing") the student comes to understand it.

Off to bed!
Hope that helps :-)

I usually introduce it as a quarter tied to the first of a 2-eighth note group.

I love the checklist of activities, danshure!

Crayola - is it that he can't play the rhythm when he reads it, or that he can't perform a rhythmic rendition of the pattern? The solution will be wildly different depending on which problem he has (or if it's both!!).

With students who haven't learned fractions yet, I often simplify it by saying the dot means that the quarter note stole some time from the next beat, and the flagged note is what was left. And we simply practice l-o-o-n-g, short, l-o-o-n-g, short. For whatever reason, they seem to catch onto this a lot faster than all my clever diagrams.

He can play the rhythm if I'm playing along or counting out loud very slowly. He can also clap back patterns very accurately. It's when he sees the pattern in it's musical context that there seems to be a disconnect between what he sees and what he feels. Maybe it's simply a pattern that he must memorize the feel of, and develop security before having to include it with his pieces.
We've done written activities with a quarter tied to two eighth notes. He seems to cognitively understand what's going on there.
Thanks for all the ideas, Danshure. I have tried most of those ideas, and the student is able to comfortably do the majority, but there are some new ideas you've given that I'll have to try. I especially like the 8 coins idea. What a great visual/special way to teach this concept!

Here’s Princess Leia’s Theme by John Williams ... in eighth-notes ... with gently flowing single-note profile ... which might buy time ... am presently looking for the Imperial Theme in the hope of finding some dotted notes.

The dotted eighth note might seem complicated until one represents duration in terms of a proportional horizontal line ... adding to the eighth-note (half as much again) ... sorry to mention fractions, but equal to 3/16ths. (1/8 + 1/16).

Works with my bunch.

PS Can't get the Image to engage (Princess Leia's Theme) ...
perhaps later.
[img:left]http://www.pianoworld.com/Uploads/files/PrincessLeia'sTheme.JPG[/img]

This is the best I got:

http://learn2playmusic.com/EZ_Lesson_28.html

Apart from that, try using a well known song, such as 'Jingle Bells' to demonstrate.

Most children know Jingle Bells, and have already internalised the rhythm. They just need to see it in practice:

http://learn2playmusic.com/EZ_Lesson_29.html

We've done London Bridge and America, and he's got the right idea of long-short-long rhythm, but each one's a bit different from the other dotted patterns, and I can tell that it's not timed or precise or carefully counted. The problem is that he's not holding the first dotted quarter into the second beat. I have him doing drills with LH tapping 4 quarters, while RH has the dotted rhythm, and then switch hands, in order to help him feel that strong beat that he must hold through, but this seems to be presenting quite the challenge.

Do you mean his attack of the eighth note (on the "and" of 2) is coming early? Or do you mean it's coming on time but he's not sustaining the dotted quarter for its full duration?

In either case, another tactic is to modify the song a little...

1. change the dotted quarter into three eighths - so if it's a C, have him play three c's as eighth notes, then play the next note (the "and" of 2) as is.

2. than explain the three c's are the length of the full dotted quarter but instead of hitting all three, attack on the first but still make a motion with his hand/wrist marking the second and third 8th note - they are still there but just not being attacked, they are being held down although his wrist will make a motion.

I had a student who made all her half notes and quarter notes the same value. When I had her make a second motion while holding down the half notes it fixed this issue instantly and permanently.

In addition another thing that has worked is to have them accent what comes after the eighth (so accent beat three in this case)... this helps them feel that the eighth is the weak beat and the quarter which comes after is on the beat.

Let us know how its going!

I like that, Danshure,
I'll be sure to give this a try. He's not feeling the dotted quarter for 3 beats, he's just holding it for an undefined length before squeezing in a really quick 8th note. I'll have him change the dotted quarter to 3 eighth notes, then count it using wrist motions. Hopefully he'll start feeling the beat more.
I've also got him working on Melody for Left Hand by Schytte, (from the Developing Artist Piano Literature 1) which has RH 8th notes against LH quarter-dot pattern. We'll see how he does with it this week. Our next lesson is on Friday.
Thanks again for the tips.

At the age of 6, a child might be battling with new words ... a graphic diagram showing the comparative length of a dotted eighth note works for some ... perhaps with the OP.

I think that most 6 year olds would struggle to conceptualise the idea of three quarters plus one quarter (I know some who would find it no problem, but *most* six year olds just wouldn't be able to deal with thinking in fractions).

I would think that the child is getting stuck on the reading more than the realising of the rhythm. So take the reading out the equation for three months. Get the student performing this rhythm in all kinds of pieces. Marketing research suggests that on average people need to be exposed to a new product 8 times before they'll commit to a purchase: I expect that it's the same when we are 'selling' a new concept to a student - if they only have had to play it in one or two pieces then they won't buy into needing to know it, but once they've played it in 8 different contexts they are ready to 'purchase'.

Nice point Elissa,
Fractions can stump a 6-year old.

But how about this?

Get the gormless cloth-eared chump (excuse the doggerel) to fetch a ball of string and cut off 2 identical lengths of 12 inches (each representing an 8th-note) ... now get muggins to cut the second length into two (each 6") .

Now place the 12" length horizontally in front of the twit ... and ask saphead to add one of the
6" lengths to the original 12" length (12+6=18) ...
to represent the dotted 8th-note.

If the penny still fails to drop ... my advice would be to ask the clown to go off and play in the traffic ... you can see that it’s nearly time for my medication ... sorry about that!!

I would typically agree that this would be a hard concept for a 6 yr old. However, this particular child has the reading level of a 4th grader, and is a whiz at math concepts. He's one of the best note readers in my studio. His ability to recognize patterns and musical form is impressive, but feeling a new rhythm always seems to be tricky. He's a very visual learner, which makes me hesitate to completely take the notes completely away from him and train him aurally, although I would do this in a heartbeat with most any other student.

Crayola

Not to overwhelm with ideas (too late!) BUT...

- can he find and circle all the dotted quarters (recognize them visually on the page)?

- can he point to the notes in the book in rhythm while you play it?

- can he pick out a correct vs incorrect playing of it by ear (you play it correct or incorrect and he tells you which is which)?

- i forget, have you tried drawing the rhythm as a quarter tied to an eighth?

- this may seem like a simple question but does he really understand the idea of a steady beat, and the steady beat goes on separate and apart from the rhythm of the song?

- can he demonstrate a NOT-steady beat (an incorrect beat) on purpose?

As you can see, I don't give up! Some of my students probably think I'm nuts... I had a feeling this was a smarter 6 year old. One question though, has he progressed to dotted 8ths by working through method books up to this point? He was fine with rhythm as he progressed and then just hit a roadblock with the dotted quarters?

Danshure,
He's progressed steadily through PA and is in 2B, studying this dotted rhythm. He's got a great steady beat but has difficulty counting out loud while tapping/clapping with any rhythm, not just dotted rhythms. This is one area we have been working on and he is progressing overall.

I have not tried having him pick out the correct vs. incorrect rhythm by ear. I almost did that last week, but thought that would be too hard/discouraging at this point, and I'm holding off on that. Maybe next lesson. And I think his ability to do that would be a great indicator if he can even identify the rhythm. I have not tried having him demonstrate the incorrect rhythm on purpose. That would be interesting to see what he comes up with; see if he accidentally gets it right!

Thanks for all the great ideas. I want Friday to quickly come so I can try some of these out and see if something will click.

It's funny, I have a 5th GRADE student who hit the same spot in PA a few weeks ago (Aardvark Boogie etc) , who always got all her rhythms perfect and then BAM! Dotted 8ths sabotage the whole thing! Despite being extremely shy and timid her grasp on rhythm was perfect. I have been trying many of the same ideas I suggested with her and it's coming but slow.

So I relate to where you are coming from, it is not good to overwhelm the student with a million ideas all at once. Trying to find ways to experiment but it keep it fun and interesting for them is hard at times I find.

The "can you play it wrong" question is really eye-opening. I always get this deer in headlights look when I ask it... you want me to do what?! They're so used to teachers expecting them to be perfect and do everything right it can be a refreshing approach and I find kids get a certain amount of amusement out of it which can help them relax more too.

Definitely let us know how things go - maybe you'll find something that could be useful with my 5th grader :-)

I use
"runningrun-ning"