I have a couple adult students who get really upset with themselves when they make mistakes at lessons. I am a low key teacher, not critical, & genuinely excited & encouraging for every small bit of progress. So there is no reason for them to beat themselves up, & I'm at a loss for what else to say to relax them. Now recital time is coming & I don't want them to continue on this path of anxiety. Any ideas?

A glass of wine?!

Have you tried getting just the adults together for an informal social-type gathering, with refreshments, and have them play for each other? Two of my most self-critical adult students actually initiated this themselves, before I had a chance to! This could be instead of the larger recital, or as a lead-up to it (even try it more than once).

About the wine - hmm. A little may relax - more than a little may affect co-ordination. The borderline between the two is likely to be quite different for different people. I personally never drink before I perform, unless it is the most informal of performances. Don't ask me how I came to this position.

Currawong - you made me laugh out loud!! HOW did you come to this... oh wait, that's right, you said not to ask....!

My mum had an adult pupil who had a quite definite glass of wine policy before playing the piano! Her theory was that she didn't mind making mistakes once she'd had a glass of wine, so the extra errors due to the influence of alcohol were a small price to pay for feeling so much happier about giving it a go!

I have to say, I would NEVER drink a glass of wine before any performance!!!!!

I will only say that it involved the preparation of a cheese fondue, the leftovers of a bottle of hock (that is, what didn't go into the fondue), and the Chopin op.25/7 etude.

I learned my lesson at about age 15.

It was my grandparents 50th wedding anniversary. There was champagne. No one was checking too carefully. I had some. Actually, at least two or three glasses. I liked it. Yummy.

Then I had to play. Let me just say that when I saw some of Horowitz's videos on You Tube from his "heavily medicated period", I felt nothing but wonder that he covered as well as he did. For me, as a teen, it felt as if I was possessed by another person who had zero coordination, weird hearing and strange vision.

Everyone asked me afterwards, "What happened? Are you all right?"

I was too embarrassed to answer! LOL

In my last lesson (I'm a 30 something adult) my teacher said to me "I bet you'd play that beautifully after a couple of glasses of wine!" and then said, "But wine at 10am on a Sunday morning may not be a good idea - have you tried valium?" LOL..

Needless to say - anxiety and tension gets the better of me these days. As an adolescent/young 20 something I had no anxiety about playing in public... now... now it's a totally different story!

I can sympathise with your adult students, being one myself. They are probably very self critical and frustrated at not being able to replicate what they could do at home.

Perhaps it might be useful to get them to regularly record themselves. This will get them used to a slightly raised level of 'anxiety' and also get them used to 'performing' the pieces rather than just running through them. Admittedly, it is usually an unwelcome shock when people hear how they actually play rather than their own mental image of how they think they are playing - but once they get over the shock they can better address whatever problems are revealed and also learn to listen more acutely.

I confess that wild horses wouldn't drag me to play in a recital, though playing in an informal gathering would be more likely.

Something important that has been confirmed by a few fellow adults gives some cause + solution = some wrong beliefs. If these are addressed, it can make a huge difference. As follows:

- In academic courses we are expected to return our homework with perfectly correct answers, so we think the same is true for pieces. But playing is a skill which takes time to develop (coordination). In fact, our piece is simply our practice field for developing those skills, and the means by which a teacher can see what needs tweaking. It is expected and ok to not play perfectly and make mistakes. Our mistakes are teaching and learning opportunities. But if we don't know this, then mistakes are upsetting.

- The talent tyranny: It goes something like this. Musicians are illusionists. They work very hard and use various bits of technique and knowledge to make music appear to flow effortlessly. One has the impression that music comes from an invisible ability we call "talent" and if our practising requires effort and has mistakes, we lack this magical thing. If we lack it, the teacher will soon discover that lack, and want to drop us because we're not good enough. So each mistake in a lesson causes anxiety.

- Purpose & nature of playing in front of a teacher: That we are performing a piece for the teacher which should be perfect, and possibly show some musicality. Therefore if we mess up it is upsetting. What a friend of mine felt helpful was the "carpenter's apprentice" analogy. The apprentice works on a chair and every week he brings in his chair. The master carpenter and apprentice look at that chair and see how they can make it even better. The piece we play is that chair. the student's skills are also that chair. Teacher and student roll up their sleeves, and look at what still needs tweaking. As soon as you see it this way, you have removed "performance anxiety" since you are no longer performing, but collaborating.

- Related to the talent tyranny: Teachers are way up high on a pedestal and have awesome talent because of what they can do. It is helpful to know that those abilities were built in stages, doing the little things we are learning to do, and that teachers struggled with them and sometimes still do struggle with such things as tricky timing in more advanced pieces. Those teachers who talk about "inspiring" by playing something impressive might be missing the boat in this regard.

A few years ago I had some one-on-one conversations with two fellow students and we isolated these particular things. When they were brought into the open, playing in the studio changed remarkably because these things I have listed were causing inordinate anxiety. It was almost an overnight change.

I also sometimes wonder whether the pairing of peers, possibly with a student who is a few years ahead, might be helpful. I had a "practice buddy" on the other side of the world for my instrument, with whom I could exchange worries and concerns. I was also fortunate to have a son who had started some years ahead of me and was in the arts magnet stream, where he was observing and talking to his fellow students.

The absolutely most useful thing he told me was "intermediate level anxiety" - As a beginner you don't hear your weaknesses. At the intermediate stage as your ear opens, you do start hearing your weaknesses and correcting them. To everyone else you are playing a lot better (they always did hear those weaknesses ) but to your own ear your playing is "suddenly ghastly". This is when people tend to quit, just when they ought to keep going. I found this insight very helpful. It's almost like, "Hey, fantastic - I hear that I suck! Improvement, here I come!" (Um?)

Keystring, that is such a fabulous analysis....

Yeah! That's right! That's the way to do it! And yes, try it more than once.

I think that different people may have different feelings on the matter. For example, I might feel like getting together with like minded students as a thing we do, but I would not want to be segregated like that. During recitals there were some students I could relate to more than others, and it had nothing to do with age. Actually if the kids got to play in front of an audience of 200, and I was put into a small group of half a dozen to a dozen in an informal setting, it would be a blow to my self confidence. I would wonder whether my teacher didn't trust me to be more capable. Another consideration is that it is much easier to play in front of a large group because of anonymity, than it is to play in front of a small number of people - especially if they are peers by dint of age.

Another student may feel differently, however.

OK, another adult student (60+, back after 47-year hiatus) weighing in here. I do get upset with myself when I make mistakes in lessons, because I'm afraid it makes me look as though I didn't practice throughout the previous week, even though the reality is, I average 45-60 minutes a day. I mean, I really DID do all the things my teacher asked me to do, over and over again. And it sounds as if I didn't put in any effort at all.

The recital thing has come up, too. I flat out refuse to participate. No way. Not going to happen. Ever. I quit piano when I was a kid because I couldn't handle the pressure of another conservatory exam (I only ever did grade 3) and at this point in my life I'm doing this for my own pleasure and I'm NOT exposing myself to judgemental evaluations from anyone but my teacher. That's the nice thing about being an adult student -- you get to set the boundaries yourself, you can't be forced into to harrowing situations by others on whom you are totally dependent. BTW, I did really well on that grade 3 exam, but didn't think the result was worth the stress.

The glass of wine idea has some appeal, but I've tried playing after having a glass, and I have no control over my fingers at all.

As an adult student there are two particular issues that frustrate me and therefore cause anxiety during lessons.

1) Like many adult students - I played for years as a young person - giving up formal lessons in my early twenties. I first learned organ - taking lessons for 15 years... and then moved to piano.

So now... when I play and play (in my mind) badly... it frustrates me because *I used to be able to do this!* And in my lessons - struggling with something that I used to be able to do causes great anxiety... and mistakes and screw ups seem as though I'm failing.

2) I related issue... but I think it still stands alone is the tyranny of 'shoulds'... as in "I *should* be able to do this!" - which again leads to frustration and feelings of failure when I make mistakes and play badly.

I also agree with Keystring on the problems of intermediate level anxiety. There is nothing worse than knowing how you want to play a piece and knowing how the piece sounds... knowing how to do it... but in reality your playing doesn't match up to your vision of how it was all going to go.

Rationally I understand that I am rebuilding and rediscovering the skills I had as a younger person and that this takes time. But it's anxiety provoking and difficult to contain the feeling that I am failing at something I love... which further provokes anxiety... a vicious cycle that's hard to get out of.

That's when the glass of wine looks particularly attractive

I just had this conversation with an adult student today, about how helpful I think it is to have a performance to prepare for, and if I had a few more adults (she is, in fact, the only one at the moment) I would love to have an informal gathering, and her response was, almost word for word, like Thumper 49s. She said "I would quit". I think it's too bad, but if a feeling is that strong, it probably isn't worth pushing it. She has a hard enough time playing for me.

Keystring, you are right on with your observations! It took me about 10 months of taking lessons to figure out what you explain so well under "Purpose & nature of playing in front of a teacher". Teachers, please explain this to your adult students!

Another thing you can say to ease their worries:
"I'm not going to drop you as a student if you don't play well." (Unless you would!) Keystring also alluded to this in his list. And even though it seems unreasonable, I think it is a real fear.

Finally, something else that helped me greatly:
Often during lessons, my teacher will tell me to try something that I've never done before. I think as adults, we are not used to someone watching us intently as we learn something. So it's very difficult (and maybe even embarrassing) to try something totally new, because we're sure to not do it well. At one point my teacher told me that we were the only two people in the room, and he wasn't going to tell anyone if I made a mistake. So unless I wanted to go out and talk about it, no one else would ever know the outcome of my first attempts.

Okay, so I admit, I still do feel slightly nervous playing at lessons, but nowhere near as much as before.

I had a lesson like this today! My teacher thought I was nervous. Honestly, for me it is not nerves. It is FRUSTRATION that I don't have command of the pieces the way I think I should. I practice way more now and with much better concentration than when I was a kid, yet things just don't stick as easily. I can work and workon a piece at home and play it so much worse at a lesson. It's simply embarrassing. I told him it is not anxiety getting the better of me, it's straightforward lack of technique!

Also, do not underestimate the physical unease of an unfamiliar piano, different feel, different lighting, different sound. It really throws us amateurs off!

+10!!

Don't you love it when the teacher's grand piano has a music desk that is about 6 inches higher than the one on your upright, and you're having to adjust to reading the music at the unfamiliar height through the 1/4 inch of your trifocals that work at that distance?

And since I can no longer memorize the way I could as a kid, I don't even have that option of getting around the problem.

Yes, I know .. excuses! But it does cause me to make more mistakes than I do at home.

I have a way of lowering the music desk for my adult students who are used to an upright and/or use multifocals. It involves resting a recipe book stand between the lid and the music desk - a bit hard to explain, but it effectively lowers the music about 4cm.

I have only once played a solo at a student's studio recital. This was some 40 years ago when I was in my early twenties and was playing the classical guitar. (I had previously played in a few other settings and things had gone reasonably well.)

Together with my teacher (who owned the guitar 'studio') I picked something that was reasonably well within my technique (The first movement of the Giuliani Sonata Op 15). Even so, it took a lot of hard practise to get it to performance standard.

The student recital was always held in a ~300 seat venue and John Duarte (composer, critic and one of the doyens of the classical guitar world) had come over for the concert and subsequent party. Even though I was confident with the piece, I remember the feeling of total panic (together with an urge to visit the toilet) as the hour got nearer. Anyway, my turn came and I got settled on the platform and started the piece. During the first few bars I watched as my right hand (seemingly of its own volition) played extra notes in a certain phrase that it had never done before or since. Apart from that everything went fine .... until I came to the end of the exposition and beginning of the development section! My mind went completely blank ... I had no idea what came next!

I heard Mike (my teacher who was in the audience) quietly saying "E". Which might have been helpful in normal circumstances but, as it was, he might as well have read out an equation from quantum mechanics.

Anyway, I stood up, apologised, walked off the platform (to the bemusement of the audience who started to give embarrassed applause), a few seconds later I re-emerged with the score in hand, set it up and carried on from the start of the development without even glancing at the music.

(The subsequent party went much better! )

I imagine a dozen people around the world secretly clamouring for a picture and then running out to get recipe book stands.

I have an alternate solution for the music desk problem. I play on a Casio PX310 and have two conductor stands placed behind my keyboard at a height and distance that is close to a grand's music desk. The two stands let me spread out multiple pages to minimize page turns. I also have single vision glasses set for about 22 - 24 inches, just perfect for reading music.

Rich

keystring, your apprentice analogy is spot on. While sometimes I do get frustrated when I don't play as well at lesson as during the week, it's not a big deal. My teacher doesn't care about wrong notes, she only cares for dynamics. After I misplayed a phrase a couple of weeks ago, she was delighted, 'You got the intervals correct and the dynamics."

thumper49, the audience at a recital is anything but judgmental. I've blown it at both of my recitals, and had to fake it and just make something up on the spot to finish. Both times strangers came up to congratulate me on doing such a good job. My teacher was happy, too, because I didn't pause or stop.

I've enjoyed both my recitals, I don't imagine myself as Wilhelm Kempff, so there's no real pressure.

Hello Everyone,

My poor wonderful teacher had the same dilemma with me. I was so nervous and self-critical that I didn't play in recitals or in her workshops. I finally had to conquer this fear. I had gotten a brand new baby grand and my teacher suggested a workshop at my house! I loved the idea and then realized that I had no choice but to play. How could I not? It was my piano and my house. The solution to my first time playing for an audience, was a duet with my teacher. That took some of the pressure off of me since the spotlight was shared. Perhaps suggesting a duet might help your student with the nerves. Since then I have (although I'm still terrified) played in my teacher's workshops and recitals. I hope this suggestion helps.

Minnie

You have to admit, CarolR, that you are not very clever.

I'd bet my entire fortune that this person is dying to play for others and with others.

CarolR,

Perhaps a better idea might be to ask some students round for coffee on a semi-social basis and mix that with playing (assuming that you do get more adult students). That way they could get used to the idea of playing in front of others.

However, I do realise that many piano teachers like to keep teaching on a purely formal basis.

Many decades ago, when I was learning the classical guitar, one of the things the 'studio' I attended used to do was adjourn to the local pub on a Friday night, where the teachers and a smallish group of intermediate/advanced students would socialise and talk about music, and all things under the sun. In fact, the pub became our second home!

Also one of the other things they used to do is always have a social event, in the 'studio', after a student's recital (or the other recitals they sponsored. It was a mix of chatting with people spontaneously picking up an instrument and playing.

Those things really helped to maintain my enthusiasm and passion, though I realise that it was a very different 'world'.

I was going to ask for a picture!

Give me a little time - I'll do it today!

Here 'tis:

re the photo:
I removed the little legs that hold the cook book in place - and I usually put a large sheet of black cardboard on the stand to make it a little wider.

For one student it's having the music closer which is significant, but the lower height helps too.

To follow that thought, maybe what that adult student would be dying to be told is
"You play well enough to play in front of people".

I think people's comments about once you're no longer a rank beginner and your ears open up and you hear horrible sounds coming from your fingers, you think "why am I doing this? I'm talentless and obviously my work isn't doing me any good!"

I think teachers forget that we haven't learned how to hear ourselves yet and it's very easy to fall into the "I'm horrible" trap. I, too, would have to be hauled in with chains and wine to play in front of humans but if my teacher could find a way to convince me I won't burst other people's eardrums, I think it would be a good experience.

I talk in front of large groups, no problem, but put a piano in my hands... no way. It's a confidence thing, I think, because of lack of feedback. I get precise feedback while I'm speaking- nodding, probing questions, laughter, etc- but as I'm playing there's not enough interaction with the person listening to tell what they really think.

As an adult student who's simply terrified to play in front of anything other than my dogs, I'd be interested in hearing what other teachers have come up with to help with this.

Thanks!

Thanks for your great insight! I really appreciate the time you took to help me with new ways to think about this. I'm sure it will help my students out.

So is there anything that your teacher could do that would make you feel better about that frustration, or help you see that the problems you are having are normal? What would make you feel better?

It's a good idea to simply "plant" the idea of playing for others in the student's mind: "Can you imagine that someday you will want to and be able to share your music with others?"

Then when you hear some of her finished music that is a real candidate for her playing for others, you'd say something like, "This piece would really be a good choice for someday when you share your playing with others. Keep this one in your "repertoire". Or, "This song is so special and you play it so well." Create the word repertoire for this student. And make it seem like there is a "when", defeat the word "never". "Never say never." Suggest "someday". Just conversationally.

If the student has something to share and feels confident about it, they might venture forward.

In the meantime, read up on "stage fright" or "anxiety" and find some tools that might be useful for any reluctant student. Say, "I wouldn't be doing my job well if I didn't try to help you with this." (Smile) And, then there is the, "But, you say this without having actually challenged the thought - is what you are saying (quitting) really the truth?"

Of course, there is someone saying "no" who simply has no desire to play for others and they can say that without like a "No, thank you." (Acceptable to me.) But, when there is fear or heightened emotion about the "no", it needs to be gradually reduced in it's intensity by finding a comfort zone and more confidence and self esteem. "Maybe" and "Someday" is making progress.

It comes to mind, that if the teacher is not comfortable in performing, it is going to be harder to be convincing to the student and to create the results you want. If you are comfortable with performance, make sure you model that comfort to the student without saying anything about "performance".