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#1417420 - 04/14/10 08:09 PM YAMAHA P22 VS T118 VS KAWAI UST-9
marathon Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/14/10
Posts: 27
Hello all, I don't play piano yet, but will learn how to play with my 4 year old
daughter soon. After some research(larry book, pianobuy.com, local store etc
), we came down to the below 3 models

Yamaha P22 $4400 plus tax
Yamaha T118$3935 plus tax
Kawai UST-9 $4600 plus tax

Our only local Kawai dealer is going out of business, I was told this is a
good deal. Our potential piano teacher recommend YAMAHA. After our own
research, it seems that KAWAI vs YAMAHA might be a personal preference, but
we haven't even had a preference at all. So would like to see opinions from
people who has more experience with Pianos

Any info will be appreciated!

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#1417430 - 04/14/10 08:34 PM Re: YAMAHA P22 VS T118 VS KAWAI UST-9 [Re: marathon]
choleric Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/16/09
Posts: 233
The Yamaha P22 is the best deal in terms of discount and in terms of quality.
_________________________
Choleric
Yamaha CVP307 digital piano

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#1417446 - 04/14/10 09:04 PM Re: YAMAHA P22 VS T118 VS KAWAI UST-9 [Re: choleric]
ChasT Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/06/09
Posts: 649
Loc: Georgia
Welcome to the Forum, Marathon.

Compared to pianobuyer.com's SMP's, the discounts are: P22 -32.3%, T118 -28.4% and UST-9 -34.2%.

So far (one year), I have no complaints about my UST-9. I like the Millennium III action. My teacher and I both prefer my piano to the P22 at my church. I don't have any first hand experience with the T118.

All three are solid choices for your purpose. Which one do YOU like?

Charles

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#1417469 - 04/14/10 09:43 PM Re: YAMAHA P22 VS T118 VS KAWAI UST-9 [Re: ChasT]
MusicBud Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/23/06
Posts: 276
Loc: Toronto, Canada
I compared recently the UST-9 and the Kawai K-3 and I like the UST-9 better, to me, the UST-9 has a more warm and balance tone across all the keys, I also like the Millennium III action in UST-9. I tried out the Yamaha P22 too and I like it better than the T118.

To me, I will put the Indonesian made UST-9 first, then the Chinese made P22 and then the T118 last. You get a good price on the UST-9.

Good luck.
_________________________
Kawai RX-3, UST-9.

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#1417476 - 04/14/10 09:51 PM Re: YAMAHA P22 VS T118 VS KAWAI UST-9 [Re: ChasT]
marathon Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/14/10
Posts: 27
Charles and Choleric, thank you both.

I kinda like the looks of T118 most, however this might be the least important thing for a Piano. I really like our local KAWAI store staff, they are honest and helful, however the YAMAHA store people are really pushy and even distorting facts(mainly about KAWAI) a little bit... this again might be the least important thing for a piano I might be keeping for a long time. From this you can see how clueless I'm. Anyway I did play all the models individually in the stores, try to find the difference from my ear to see whether I will be attracted to a certain one, and apparently I failed to tell any difference.

The spec of UST-9 really looks good to me as a piano dummy, and the keyboard cover has a slow shut-down motion built in, which will help in my househole with small kids, otherwise they will slam the cover. (see I only have preference over those non critical stuff of a piano, that's why I need others' opinions.) My potential piano teacher(who is a professor in a renowned music institute) has P22 in her office, and recommends p22 other than t118 or ust-9. This certainly adds the weight to my decision process.

Thanks again and hope to see more thoughts about this,

Marathon

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#1417483 - 04/14/10 10:11 PM Re: YAMAHA P22 VS T118 VS KAWAI UST-9 [Re: MusicBud]
marathon Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/14/10
Posts: 27
thanks musicbud,

The Millennium III action on the spec does add some weight, though I can't feel it yet.

It's good to know the comparison you had between those 2.

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#1417487 - 04/14/10 10:21 PM Re: YAMAHA P22 VS T118 VS KAWAI UST-9 [Re: marathon]
marathon Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/14/10
Posts: 27
btw, i was told the the action from ust-9 is from japan, of course everything else is from indonesian. How about p22 or t118, is everytinng including the action from China, or the action is from japan, and everything else is from china? anybody has a clue?

Thanks,

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#1417526 - 04/14/10 11:33 PM Re: YAMAHA P22 VS T118 VS KAWAI UST-9 [Re: marathon]
MusicBud Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/23/06
Posts: 276
Loc: Toronto, Canada
Pretty sure the action of the UST-9 is from Japan. Are you sure the UST-9 has the slow fall board device ?
_________________________
Kawai RX-3, UST-9.

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#1417541 - 04/15/10 12:02 AM Re: YAMAHA P22 VS T118 VS KAWAI UST-9 [Re: MusicBud]
KawaiDon Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/05/02
Posts: 1206
Loc: Orange County, CA
All Millennium-III actions are made by Kawai in Japan. For the UST-9 they are shipped to our factory in Indonesia and installed and regulated there.

The UST-9 has a kind of pivoting / sliding fallboard design, and there is no need for a slo-fall mechanism. It has to be pulled to close it, and cannot be closed accidentally.
_________________________
Don Mannino, MPA
Kawai America

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#1417598 - 04/15/10 01:39 AM Re: YAMAHA P22 VS T118 VS KAWAI UST-9 [Re: KawaiDon]
boxijie Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/20/08
Posts: 126
Loc: Vancouver
I would try to avoid getting bogged down in the issue of where it is made/assembled etc. The pianos you are looking at are probably all equally well made and will be excellent choices for your purposes.

You like to look of the T-118, but you might want to also consider the practical advantages of the music shelf on the p-22 and the UST-9. With a young child in the house, the studio models provide a very sturdy advantage. You can also spread out so much more music on the music desk of the studio models over the "professional" style hinged shelf.

I have never played a UST-9, but between the P-22 and the T118, I much preferred the P-22.

If you do like the style of the T-118 and can handle the idea of an Asian made piano, you will get more value for your money if you consider Perzina, Brodmann, WM Knabe, and Hailun. You are paying extra for the name (and long history of quality) of Kawai and Yamaha.

Good luck with your search.

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#1417736 - 04/15/10 08:47 AM Re: YAMAHA P22 VS T118 VS KAWAI UST-9 [Re: boxijie]
marathon Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/14/10
Posts: 27
boxijie and KawaiDon, thank you both.

The pivoting / sliding fallboard design is probably what I meant.

The shelves/sturdy design of ust-9 and p22 boxijie mentioned certainly is at least a comparable factor to the looks, which I didn't pay attention at the store.

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#1417739 - 04/15/10 08:52 AM Re: YAMAHA P22 VS T118 VS KAWAI UST-9 [Re: marathon]
marathon Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/14/10
Posts: 27
well I just got the serial number for both the p22 and ust-9. I verified the ust-9 with KAWAI USA that everything is what it is supposed to be(model/year/place of making, etc). But somehow the serial number(7 digit) for P22 model returned 'This serial number is not made for North America market', then I put the model number as prefix, it returned the same message. Anyone has experience like that with YAMAHA? I had thought the grey market YAMAHA was really in the past, and hate to relate to new pianos. Well before I speculate more possibilities(tricky dealer?), I will verify the number with the dealer first then.

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#1417769 - 04/15/10 10:02 AM Re: YAMAHA P22 VS T118 VS KAWAI UST-9 [Re: marathon]
marathon Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/14/10
Posts: 27
I kinda of prefer either P22 or UST-9 now.

I hear that new KAWAI or YAMAHA nowadays has very little individual variations, so it is not necessary to pick one out of three, etc. IS it true?

UST-9 only has one left(in the showroom for 3 months), and P2 has 2 or 3 to choose from(all have been in a school festival once for a day or 2). Should this be a consideration?

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#1417779 - 04/15/10 10:16 AM Re: YAMAHA P22 VS T118 VS KAWAI UST-9 [Re: marathon]
Plowboy Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/26/08
Posts: 2173
Loc: Huntington Beach, CA
marathon, you should call Yamaha and find out about that serial number. Verify that the P22s are new pianos with a warranty.

And as everyone has said, those are all nice pianos.
_________________________
Gary Schenk

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#1417867 - 04/15/10 11:55 AM Re: YAMAHA P22 VS T118 VS KAWAI UST-9 [Re: Plowboy]
marathon Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/14/10
Posts: 27
I just verified with YAMAHA that particular P22 is a North America one, but they can only tell me whether it was made within the last 3 years or not, apparently yes.

Now I kinda of prefer either P22 or UST-9,

We only have one yamaha dealer and one kawai dealer here, and the only kawai dealer is going out of business. So in another word this is the last chance if I want a KAWAI. If really UST-9 is generally a better Piano than P22, I will buy it. And I guess this is where there is no such a thing you can quantify, like which one scores higher.

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#1417870 - 04/15/10 12:02 PM Re: YAMAHA P22 VS T118 VS KAWAI UST-9 [Re: marathon]
terminaldegree Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/03/06
Posts: 2555
Loc: western Wisconsin
I would never buy a piano without playing it first in the store. Some discussion of dealer prep:

http://www.pianoworld.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/ubb/showflat/Number/274105/Searchpage/1/Main/20623
_________________________
Pianist, teacher, internet addict.
Piano Review Editor - Acoustic and Digital Piano Buyer
Casio px-200, Bechstein A190 #192939 @ home
Steinway A #585209, B #416809 @ work
Schimmel 130T #339100, on loan

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#1417900 - 04/15/10 12:39 PM Re: YAMAHA P22 VS T118 VS KAWAI UST-9 [Re: terminaldegree]
marathon Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/14/10
Posts: 27
Thanks terminaldegree,

I have recorded serial number for both and verified both. Now it really comes down to the question is UST-9 generally speaking a better piano than P22. If the answer is yes, I will run to the store and buy it.

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#1417911 - 04/15/10 12:48 PM Re: YAMAHA P22 VS T118 VS KAWAI UST-9 [Re: marathon]
M.O.P. Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/14/09
Posts: 981
Loc: Ocala, Florida
Tightening your shoelaces? smile
_________________________
Nancy Fanzlaw
Seamstress for the Band

www.FortePianoGallery.com
Forte' Blog - Technical Tuesdays
Forte' on Facebook

"The piano was God's gift to music." Lou Mason


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#1417915 - 04/15/10 12:55 PM Re: YAMAHA P22 VS T118 VS KAWAI UST-9 [Re: M.O.P.]
MusicBud Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/23/06
Posts: 276
Loc: Toronto, Canada
Oh, you don't need to run like the marathon to the store, you can walk slowly smile The piano should still be there !
_________________________
Kawai RX-3, UST-9.

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#1417953 - 04/15/10 01:53 PM Re: YAMAHA P22 VS T118 VS KAWAI UST-9 [Re: MusicBud]
marathon Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/14/10
Posts: 27
well, hopefully the piano is still there if I walk slowly. I was told it will not be there long since some schools are thinking of buying it, and just need to wait for the budget to be approved, etc. The longer I wait, the more likely it will be gone. Hopefully that's not a sales trick, or maybe I'm too naive. Since the Kawai store staff seems really honest, at least compared to the yamaha.

well, what I could do is probably to ask Kawai to match the P22 price, then I will show them the money right away. But I doubt whether they will do that, if they can sell their last one without further discount anyway. I may give it try later this afternoon.

thanks again,

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#1418194 - 04/15/10 09:37 PM Re: YAMAHA P22 VS T118 VS KAWAI UST-9 [Re: marathon]
marathon Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/14/10
Posts: 27
Guess what, I finally developed some strategy thanks to everyone's help here.. Apparently I will try out all 3 models tomorrow again. Right now the only slight preference I have is T118 (yes, my preference changed in a single day, I said I prefer p22 or ust-9 earlier today). So if tomorrow my amateur ear is again telling me the same thing, plus I really like the looks of t118 better, then I will try to negotiate with the dealer to give me the same discount as she offered to me for a M460(3760 plus tax). M460 has the same MSRP as T118, do not know why she priced t118 $200 more for me.

The reason of my strategy is below

1. forget my personal preference for a second, no absolute ranking for those 3 models, not a single one is outstanding according to all my different sources,
2, because of 1, pick the cheapest, especially according to pianobuy.com t118 and p2 internally are the same, delivering the same result( let's forget individual variation for a second)
3. I like the looks of t118, which is the only absolute preference or ranking I have

Any warnings or comments before I take action on this tomorrow?

Thank you so much for all your thoughts, this is really a nice forum and you guys are the best. I will post my final decision for whoever will be interested or whoever might run into the same dilemma...

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#1418197 - 04/15/10 09:48 PM Re: YAMAHA P22 VS T118 VS KAWAI UST-9 [Re: marathon]
choleric Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/16/09
Posts: 233
The differences I have felt between the P22 and the T118 are the action is better on the P22 and the tone is more even. I was told that the P22 receives more prepping and voicing at the factory than the T118 and is a thicker and more substantial piano than the T118 so that schools and institutions will approve. The things could be minutae to you, but they were not to me.


Edited by choleric (04/15/10 09:49 PM)
_________________________
Choleric
Yamaha CVP307 digital piano

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#1418258 - 04/16/10 12:54 AM Re: YAMAHA P22 VS T118 VS KAWAI UST-9 [Re: choleric]
Plowboy Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/26/08
Posts: 2173
Loc: Huntington Beach, CA
marathon, you seem to be doing it right. It's basically a situation where you can't go wrong. Whichever of those you buy will be a good piano for you. If you have no preference for tone or touch, looks and price is as good a way to go as any, IMHO.
_________________________
Gary Schenk

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#1418538 - 04/16/10 02:26 PM Re: YAMAHA P22 VS T118 VS KAWAI UST-9 [Re: Plowboy]
thumper49 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/28/09
Posts: 170
Loc: Saskatchewan, Canada
Marathon, I think you will be fine. I have a T118, but will not try to influence your decision one way or another.

People have noted in various other threads dealing with choosing a piano that each instrument is unique. One T118 or UST9 will sound different from the next T118 or UST9. Make sure you actually play the one that is going to be delivered to you before putting your money down. This is important. When I was shopping for my first acoustic, I tried a number of pianos, including a T118. I didn't much care for the T118, preferring instead a larger (and more expensive) Pramberger. I couldn't afford the Pramberger, and in any event, both it and the T118 had been sold before I even tried them out. I kept looking. A few weeks later I went back to the same dealership and they had just taken delivery of another T118. This one sounded very different from the one I had tried previously, much more mellow and to my liking. I would not have been happy with the first T118 I played. I am very happy with the one I ended up buying.

Good luck with your purchase.
_________________________



Currently working on: Suzuki Piano School, book 4, second half

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#1418719 - 04/16/10 09:21 PM Re: YAMAHA P22 VS T118 VS KAWAI UST-9 [Re: thumper49]
marathon Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/14/10
Posts: 27
The UST-9 was gone before I can get to the store to have another try, which made my decision much easier. I tried all the 3 T118 in Yamaha dealership as well as the P22 my potential teacher picked out for me(she picked out one P22 out of 3 P22 the other day, she didn't like T118 I guess only because she has a P22 in her office, and she said she is not familiar with T118, actually never heard of), and I kept playing CDE(probably drove everyone in the store crazy) on each of them. Picked out the T118 I like, and told the dealer she has to match the $3760 plus tax with delivery included offer she gave for M460, since they have the same MSRP. And she came back and agreed. will be delivered in a week.

Thanks everyone. Again, this is one of the best forums I have ever been... you guys rock!


Edited by marathon (04/16/10 09:24 PM)

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#1418819 - 04/17/10 02:47 AM Re: YAMAHA P22 VS T118 VS KAWAI UST-9 [Re: marathon]
thumper49 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/28/09
Posts: 170
Loc: Saskatchewan, Canada
Congratulations on your purchase! (I paid way more than you did -- you got a good deal in my estimation.) Enjoy!
_________________________



Currently working on: Suzuki Piano School, book 4, second half

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#1418836 - 04/17/10 06:00 AM Re: YAMAHA P22 VS T118 VS KAWAI UST-9 [Re: thumper49]
jrcallan Online   content
Full Member

Registered: 12/06/07
Posts: 358
Loc: Pennsylvania
You may want to note the serial # of the one you chose and make sure that's the one that is delivered.

Best of luck.

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#1418967 - 04/17/10 01:50 PM Re: YAMAHA P22 VS T118 VS KAWAI UST-9 [Re: jrcallan]
M.O.P. Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/14/09
Posts: 981
Loc: Ocala, Florida
Congratulations, Marathon! Enjoy!

Nancy
_________________________
Nancy Fanzlaw
Seamstress for the Band

www.FortePianoGallery.com
Forte' Blog - Technical Tuesdays
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"The piano was God's gift to music." Lou Mason


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