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Topic Options
#1424188 - 04/25/10 10:11 PM Re: small cracks at bridge pins [Re: Steve Cohen]
Jeff Clef Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/05/08
Posts: 4480
Loc: San Jose, CA
If I had to guess, I'd say that a really special and low-cost deal--- possibly involving some irregularity with the instrument (a cosmetic flaw, maybe)--- is on the table... something wouter is not going to be able to equal elsewhere, let alone beat. If he gives up this 'bird in the hand,' the 'bird in the bush' is going to cost significantly more. And, the piano budget being only so elastic, he may have to move downscale or wait until he saves enough to get what he really wants.

Or, possibly, there's something especially attractive about the deal itself... maybe some special financing feature.

Maybe the wife has put her foot down, or has her thumb on the scale somehow, so that the natural balance point cannot be read.

Just guesses, of course. As rodmichael pointed out, we don't have all the information, and maybe it's none of our business to know it. I am, personally, willing to keep it that way. No one has to read this thread, if it's become too agonizing. Hey--- maybe we should be practicing our piano lessons; I know I should.

And, the take-home lesson is: take that close look at the piano FIRST, before the deal is struck and a problem lands in your living room that you're not really willing to solve.

As Mae West used to say, "When choosing between two evils, I always pick the one I haven't tried yet."
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#1424345 - 04/26/10 06:43 AM Re: small cracks at bridge pins [Re: Jeff Clef]
wouter79 Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/14/10
Posts: 3849
"Why are we here?"

You tell me! I'm not forcing anyone to read this thread. I guess people want to know how it goes?

If you don't want to read it please stay out.

There was no "really special" deal. I do feel that I finally found a nice sounding piano and really hate the prospect of restarting a similar long lasting search - or even longer as I already saw most nearby dealers.

"And, the take-home lesson is: take that close look at the piano FIRST, before the deal is struck and a problem lands in your living room that you're not really willing to solve."

Even if I had my first technician with me, he would have told me that this is a great piano.
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#1424348 - 04/26/10 07:06 AM Re: small cracks at bridge pins [Re: wouter79]
Larry Larson Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/10/05
Posts: 992
Loc: Carmel, Indiana
Now for a psychological/emotional perspective-- given your level of concern I don't think you'll ever be totally at peace with this piano and be able to fully enjoy it even if you became convinced the problem wasn't serious.
_________________________
1995 Baldwin L grand
2001 Baldwin Hamilton upright
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#1424646 - 04/26/10 04:41 PM Re: small cracks at bridge pins [Re: Larry Larson]
wouter79 Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/14/10
Posts: 3849
UPDATE

To my relief my second technician confirmed the problem. At least I am now sure what's up here.
So it's definitive, this piano has to go cry

Quote:
I don't think you'll ever be totally at peace with this piano and be able to fully enjoy it even if you became convinced the problem wasn't serious.


Yes this is also an important point. But the official judgment from the technician was the main point.


Edited by wouter79 (04/26/10 04:42 PM)
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#1424666 - 04/26/10 05:15 PM Re: small cracks at bridge pins [Re: wouter79]
SeilerFan Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/27/09
Posts: 746
Makes you wonder why the dealer and his technician would claim that this problem was only minor while trying to fight your concerns. My trust would be shaken and I would never want to do business with this person again.

Even though you got good advice here, it was good that you brought someone in who was independent and who confirmed the concerns of people here. I hope you can get your money back. I am sure you'll eventually find a great piano to your liking.


Edited by SeilerFan (04/26/10 05:17 PM)

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#1424790 - 04/26/10 09:12 PM Re: small cracks at bridge pins [Re: SeilerFan]
AJF Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/18/06
Posts: 1697
Loc: Toronto
Originally Posted By: SeilerFan
Makes you wonder why the dealer and his technician would claim that this problem was only minor while trying to fight your concerns. My trust would be shaken and I would never want to do business with this person again.

Even though you got good advice here, it was good that you brought someone in who was independent and who confirmed the concerns of people here. I hope you can get your money back. I am sure you'll eventually find a great piano to your liking.


+1

Glad you finally got this issue resolved Wouter.
You know, after you get your refund you might want to contact Petrof and report this dealer's practices. He sold you a piano that is defective and then tried to deny that anything is wrong with it when you brought it to his attention.
_________________________

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#1425111 - 04/27/10 11:45 AM Re: small cracks at bridge pins [Re: AJF]
sophial Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/11/05
Posts: 3527
Loc: US
Originally Posted By: AJF
Originally Posted By: SeilerFan
Makes you wonder why the dealer and his technician would claim that this problem was only minor while trying to fight your concerns. My trust would be shaken and I would never want to do business with this person again.

Even though you got good advice here, it was good that you brought someone in who was independent and who confirmed the concerns of people here. I hope you can get your money back. I am sure you'll eventually find a great piano to your liking.


+1

Glad you finally got this issue resolved Wouter.
You know, after you get your refund you might want to contact Petrof and report this dealer's practices. He sold you a piano that is defective and then tried to deny that anything is wrong with it when you brought it to his attention.


+2
And what is with the technician who also denied any problem with it? Is this a matter of depending on business from the dealer to stay afloat and therefore he's biased in favor of the dealer? Maybe this is just business as usual in piano sales but I hope not. It's pretty disturbing from a consumer perspective.

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#1425128 - 04/27/10 12:08 PM Re: small cracks at bridge pins [Re: sophial]
wouter79 Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/14/10
Posts: 3849
UPDATE


I tried to contract Petrof (the manufacturer) for more than a week but they never replied.

I checked with the distributor, and it shows that this dealer was not an official Petrof dealer. Therefore they could not help me either.

I mailed the dealer and told him I would take his refund. They came right away, and I got back my money.

I can just guess what the dealer and his technician were doing. My (optimistic) guess is that no one can tell for sure how these cracks will develop. Their approach may be : let's just see, when it becomes a real problem we will kick in the warranty (if it is still valid). As hardly any bridge crack probably develops until the pin falls out in just 5 years (warranty period), they will never face the consequences of this approach and thus it seems the right approach.
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#1425135 - 04/27/10 12:19 PM Re: small cracks at bridge pins [Re: wouter79]
ChasT Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/06/09
Posts: 649
Loc: Georgia
If the dealer isn't an official Petrof dealer, will there even be a warranty?

You did the prudent thing.

Charles


Edited by ChasT (04/27/10 12:20 PM)

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#1425194 - 04/27/10 01:17 PM Re: small cracks at bridge pins [Re: ChasT]
wouter79 Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/14/10
Posts: 3849
Of course there is warranty. To my knowledge:
1. The dealer gives a warranty.
2. There is the factory warranty. But that comes in only after the dealer warranty I think. The dealer is the one to deal with in warranty cases because you bought it from him.

In my case I think the factory warranty had expired but the dealer warranty was still 5 years from the day of purchase.
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#1426234 - 04/28/10 10:34 PM Re: small cracks at bridge pins [Re: wouter79]
Susan K. Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/03/09
Posts: 192
Loc: Central California
Wouter79,

Personally, I searched today for your thread, because I wanted to know what your private technician said. I'm glad that you got your money back, and I'm also glad that you did it on YOUR terms, with what made you feel comfortable.

It's all good and well for 50 people to tell you to get your money back, but it's your piano and your decision. And I think that you used this thread for exactly what it's designed for, to help you through a big decision.

I'm sending wishes through the universe that your search for that perfect (crackless) piano in your price range won't take nearly as long as your first attempt.

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#1426337 - 04/29/10 04:58 AM Re: small cracks at bridge pins [Re: wouter79]
Mark R. Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/31/09
Posts: 2150
Loc: Pretoria, South Africa
Originally Posted By: wouter79
I can just guess what the dealer and his technician were doing.


And from own experience, I can just guess what they are doing right now: flogging the same piano off on another unsuspecting customer.

For every Wouter who inspects his piano and finds the cracks, there are probably ten John Doe's who don't - relying on the (dealer's?) tech's judgement.

The cracked bridges will find a loving home yet.
_________________________
Autodidact interested in piano technology.
LinkedIn profile
1922 49" Zimmermann, project piano.
1970 44" Ibach, daily music maker.

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#1426350 - 04/29/10 05:49 AM Re: small cracks at bridge pins [Re: Mark R.]
Konzert Patrick Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/09/08
Posts: 791
Loc: The Netherlands
Just see it this way... you are now free from trouble and can find a great piano again.
Maybe the same model, maybe a different one... maybe a different brand!


How exciting!

Enjoy it.....
_________________________
Schimmel Konzert 189 Tradition

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#1426509 - 04/29/10 01:21 PM Re: small cracks at bridge pins [Re: Konzert Patrick]
wouter79 Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/14/10
Posts: 3849
Susan, thanks for the good wishes.

I had to cancel my lessons and that is disappointing. My teacher offered me to find a simple replacement to bridge the gap until I find a new one. But I politely did not accept that as I know a good piano sound is what I like so much and I don't want to play just to keep in technical form. Most uprights have not so nice actions either...

Actually I saw my piano back in the shop. It said something like 'has been played on for two months due to family circumstances'. And, it was priced a few thousand HIGHER than what I had paid !
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#1426511 - 04/29/10 01:23 PM Re: small cracks at bridge pins [Re: wouter79]
wouter79 Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/14/10
Posts: 3849
Patrick, yes, but I first have to recover from the shock ;-)
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#1426791 - 04/29/10 09:32 PM Re: small cracks at bridge pins [Re: wouter79]
Piano*Dad Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/12/05
Posts: 10519
Loc: Williamsburg, VA
Just checked out this thread. Oh my.

I'm no piano tech, but it doesn't take a Ph. D. in physics to understand that an abundance of cracks in a system maintaining tons of pressure is not a good sign.

I opened the lid of my five year old beast to examine it for comparison purposes. No cracks. Pristine. Much more uniform construction too.

Alas, I have to agree with Mark R.'s suspicion that the piano will be out the door again quite soon.
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Grotrian 192 #156455

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#1427000 - 04/30/10 08:19 AM Re: small cracks at bridge pins [Re: Piano*Dad]
wouter79 Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/14/10
Posts: 3849
At dealers I saw a significant number of "new" pianos with cracks. BUT you have to look very carefully, just a brief glance at your bridge might leave you with the impression that there are no cracks. Make sure you scrutinize a large number of these pins with magnifying glasses and good flash light before believing that there are no cracks.
_________________________

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#1427023 - 04/30/10 09:39 AM Re: small cracks at bridge pins [Re: wouter79]
Piano*Dad Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/12/05
Posts: 10519
Loc: Williamsburg, VA
The cracks on your former piano's bridge were fairly obvious. And I don't really need a magnifying glass. I'm quite nearsighted, which means I can get up close and personal with things without need of a magnifying glass. smile
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Grotrian 192 #156455

https://www.youtube.com/user/dhfeld/videos

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#1428154 - 05/02/10 03:58 AM Re: small cracks at bridge pins [Re: Piano*Dad]
wouter79 Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/14/10
Posts: 3849
"The cracks on your former piano's bridge were fairly obvious."

From the photos, yes. But with the naked eye, no.
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