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#1421207 - 04/21/10 10:26 AM Re: Polish teacher trying to get a piece of my student [Re: Nyiregyhazi]
Legal Beagle Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/24/09
Posts: 776
I should probably stay out of this also, but from a student's perspective...

Quote:
Teachers are there to provide a service. Students should be free to receive opinions wherever they wish. You don't own your students... Who do you think you're kidding?


I couldn't agree more with Nyiregyhazi. You sell piano lessons. Period. If I as a student want to buy them from another teacher also... or from five other teachers and three online courses and a video seminar and a correspondence course on theory and a class at the local community college... what business is it of yours? If I pay you, either give me a lesson or don't. If not, I won't pay you anymore.

If you're claiming that this other teacher is some sort of vulture who's trying to lure your students away, that's a different story... but I don't hear you saying that.
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#1421210 - 04/21/10 10:28 AM Re: Polish teacher trying to get a piece of my student [Re: Lollipop]
Nyiregyhazi Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/24/09
Posts: 2464
Maybe having two teachers is healthy or maybe it isn't. Also, from the student's point of view it's certainly courteous to tell your teacher if you go for lessons elsewhere. I agree entirely. However, the point I am making is that it is the client's decision and that it is not professionally unethical to receive a client- as a dentist or as a teacher. If you don't want to tread on another's toes that is a personal issue. It is not unprofessional to receive a student and provide what they ask you to do. However, it is very unprofessional to start mouthing off if a student seeks help elsewhere and complain about that teacher and accusing them of 'stealing' students unethically. Nobody likes such a situation but the only professional way to act is to behave with dignity.

The thing about transfers sounds absolutely insane to me. It's clearly geared more towards the teacher than the student's wellfare. Totally wrong, in my opinion. Teachers are supposed to serve students. Not form a special mafia style-club to protect their turf.
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#1421213 - 04/21/10 10:31 AM Re: Polish teacher trying to get a piece of my student [Re: Legal Beagle]
Andromaque Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/29/08
Posts: 3886
Loc: New York
I don't think anyone is saying they can't, "legally". Just that there should be communication between the 2 teachers and the teacher in question is also free to refuse the duplication. Furthermore, I believe that professionalism does have something to do with it. I am actually well aware of the "service" aspect of my lessons but I value my teacher's commitment and professionalism, which, perhaps arguably to some, go beyond the pay for play deal..

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#1421216 - 04/21/10 10:37 AM Re: Polish teacher trying to get a piece of my student [Re: Andromaque]
Nyiregyhazi Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/24/09
Posts: 2464
Originally Posted By: Andromaque
N
you are overlooking the fact that it is not a one time service or a "second opinion" but rather a long term "relationship". Switch shoes for a moment and consider how you would feel if you were investing time and effort into a student's piano education, especially if they are young and in the earlier phases of their studies, then have them "answering" to a second teacher with probably a different approach and strategies (say, kbk is in their neighborhood laugh ).. I would think that after a couple of lessons you or the other teacher would have to find each other and figure out how to handle it.. Private detective not needed since you can ask the student for the coordinates of the other teacher.



If they don't bring the other teacher into it, I won't ask questions. I see no obligation to do so. Perhaps the mafia is strong enough in some parts that this would be enough for someone to order a hit on me, but it doesn't work that way here.

I've lost students before after a few years of work. Nobody likes it. I also have students who take lessons from other teachers in their home country during the holidays. Good on them. I do not expect a formal request from the other teacher to go ahead in either situation. I'd have all sympathies if the poster did not choose to reach out for someone to have a go at, rather than deal with the loss. Such things come with the job. To look for a scapegoat is one thing, but I find the sheer extent of the tone in those posts absolutely disgusting. I am not going to withold honesty in my response. That poster need to hear it as it really is- if he's going to deal better with such things in the future. Teachers need to remember what they are- ie. providers of a service and not god-appointed musical guardians.

We may be in charge during the lessons- but ultimately the client is buying a service and they are really the master in the relationship. If you forget which way around that balance stands, you're going to give yourself a needlessly hard time when it comes back to remind you. If you perceive yourself as master instead of servant, you're simply digging your own grave.
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#1421218 - 04/21/10 10:43 AM Re: Polish teacher trying to get a piece of my student [Re: Nyiregyhazi]
Lollipop Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/28/09
Posts: 820
Loc: Georgia
I missed the part about the Mafia hit. Perhaps you live in a lot tougher neighborhood than I do. Here the preferable method of dealing with things is discussion.

I don't generally ask my students if they are studying with another teacher. But in the OP's case, it seems that the other teacher is aware. That being so, I think she should have at least asked if it was okay with the primary teacher.

My guess is that she didn't know any better, so I'm not as willing to vilify her. But neither do I think she can claim that since she didn't hire a private investigator she therefore had no way of knowing the student had another teacher.
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#1421221 - 04/21/10 10:50 AM Re: Polish teacher trying to get a piece of my student [Re: R0B]
Piano*Dad Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/12/05
Posts: 10356
Loc: Williamsburg, VA
I don't think this is a stable situation.

First, I suspect it's very inefficient to be bouncing back and forth between perspectives, especially when the two teachers may not share a common approach to technical development or to musical interpretation. For a young student this has got to be confusing.

It's not stable on an emotional level either. If the young one comes in bubbling about something new from the other teacher, and you think it's the wrong approach, you must come off badly no matter what you do. Competition for the affection of the child and their family is probably destructive all around, and given what I'm reading from DD, it provokes all sorts of unfortunate suspicions and emotions.

Next, how could the other teacher not realize that this was poaching? Perhaps eastern European teachers regard poaching with a certain nonchalance ... it's the game, after all, .... but I would have difficulty accepting the idea that this other teacher was blissfully unaware that a competition for this student was underway. I have difficulty believing that the other teacher finds this shared solution optimal either. I would assume, absent strong evidence to the contrary, that this other teacher eventually will make a play to get the student formally to switch teachers.

Having said all this, I do think Kreisler is right. DD does not own this student. Families are perfectly free to structure their use of professional teachers as they see fit. If DD wants to maintain an exclusive relationship, I think s(he) should lay out the issues to the family and ask them to choose. Explain the problems of shared control and suggest that the best solution is for the family to focus on one teacher's approach. Then get the ego out of the way.

They may choose this other teacher, and the reasons for their choice are whatever they are. They may opt for this teacher because they all make small talk in Polish about Pierogies and Kielbasa after the lesson. They may prefer the other teacher's sense of humor, or discipline, or whatever. Heck, maybe all people who have grown up in Poland are simply superior musicians, like Chopin .... yeah, right.

It really doesn't matter. At some point things that can't go on, won't. You just need to find the best way to get the family to that point, and get there with full information and minimal rancor.
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#1421225 - 04/21/10 10:53 AM Re: Polish teacher trying to get a piece of my student [Re: Lollipop]
Morodiene Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/06/07
Posts: 11753
Loc: Boynton Beach, FL
I had a somewhat similar experience this past fall. A very hard-working student decided to take the previous summer off from lessons and when he returned, he played a piece he learned from some teacher at his camp. It was pretty complicated for his level of playing, and she had taught it to him by rote. It was obvious that she had spent lots of time with him. Because they had decided not to take summer lessons, I felt a bit miffed. After some questions I discovered that this teacher was aware that the student was taking lessons already.

I decided not to take it up with the mother, and instead started giving him more difficult pieces to play. He still takes from me, and when the issue of summer lessons come up again, I will remind the mom of this to point out that he obviously wants to keep learning over the summer.

Many teacher organizations have ethical statements to the effect of saying that every student has the right to choose what teacher they want. However, they also do not condone stealing students. I would call up the teacher, but be careful to not be accusatory in your tone. Work out a plan for the student and find out what this teacher is offering to the student. I woud then speak to the father and let him know why this will or won't work. Be sure you remain calm and try to keep It professional.
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#1421230 - 04/21/10 11:06 AM Re: Polish teacher trying to get a piece of my student [Re: Piano*Dad]
Nyiregyhazi Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/24/09
Posts: 2464
Originally Posted By: Piano*Dad
Next, how could the other teacher not realize that this was poaching? Perhaps eastern European teachers regard poaching with a certain nonchalance ... it's the game, after all,


How much flagrant xenophobia does this thread need? Perhaps on the converse side, all you power-hungry American/Canadian types (cause you lot are like all the same sort at the end o' the day really, innit), are governed by mob style policies of self-protection and place personal earning before the students wellfare? So much for the American dream of the free capitalist economy eh? Looks like you're more likely to find that in Poland...

I can't speak for Poland but in Britain the idea of accepting a student is not traditionally regarded as "poaching".
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#1421236 - 04/21/10 11:15 AM Re: Polish teacher trying to get a piece of my student [Re: Nyiregyhazi]
Piano*Dad Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/12/05
Posts: 10356
Loc: Williamsburg, VA
If you think my statement was xenophobic you don't know me, and you don't understand my point. I'll state it more clearly so someone outside North America has a chance to comprehend. It doesn't matter whether the teacher is from Poland or from Mars, I don't think any normal human being could miss the obvious. Now perhaps the dad didn't tell this other teacher that his child already was studying with someone else. That's possible, but week after week the deception would become progressively more difficult to maintain. And if the other teacher is blissfully unaware that the child has two teachers simultaneously, the dad needs to be informed of the problems (in DD's view) that this is creating.
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Grotrian 192 #156455

https://www.youtube.com/user/dhfeld/videos

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#1421238 - 04/21/10 11:24 AM Re: Polish teacher trying to get a piece of my student [Re: Piano*Dad]
Nyiregyhazi Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/24/09
Posts: 2464
It may be 'obvious' to you that this is wrong, but I certainly don't live in a community where this would be regarded as "poaching" or where anyone would be accused of it for accepting a client.

As I say, perhaps in small communities where all the teacher know each other, this would be an issue. That serves to show that it's a personal matter, not an issue of business ethics. In the large city in which I live, I don't think many teachers would be under the impression that they might be breaking some kind of unwritten universal moral code by accepting somebody as student. Sorry, but it's highly offensive to claim that eastern-european teachers in general are inclined to knowingly poach students, contrary to moral instincts. I'd certainly have thought that would be 'obvious'. Not everyone abides by the unwritten codes of each locale- and not every one of those unwritten codes constitutes universal moral axiom of truth.
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#1421244 - 04/21/10 11:33 AM Re: Polish teacher trying to get a piece of my student [Re: Nyiregyhazi]
Piano*Dad Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/12/05
Posts: 10356
Loc: Williamsburg, VA
You are turning this into a moral issue. I have never described it that way. Please read carefully what I have posted before you completely mischaracterize what I say and sarcastically denigrate me as a racist or xenophobe.

I have argued that this dual enrollment is not likely to be stable or productive. I have made some fairly clear arguments about why I think this. You are free to disagree with those arguments. But I have never said anything about the morality of behavior. Switching teachers is fine. Accepting new students from other teachers is fine. Dual enrollment is problematic. And the problems it creates can get ugly. This is not helpful.
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Grotrian 192 #156455

https://www.youtube.com/user/dhfeld/videos

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#1421255 - 04/21/10 11:45 AM Re: Polish teacher trying to get a piece of my student [Re: Piano*Dad]
Nyiregyhazi Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/24/09
Posts: 2464
"Perhaps eastern European teachers regard poaching with a certain nonchalance ... it's the game, after all"

Had the teacher been black, would have said "perhaps black teachers..." I doubt it. I'm really not saying you a registered member of the KKK, but why make such a sweeping generalisation based on one single teacher? I find that really quite inappropriate. To use a word as inherently judgmental as "poach" makes it very much a moral issue.

I basically agree with the rest of what you say- but sometimes it's good to try a few teachers and see how things go. However, I'm not saying that this is better or worse. What I'm saying that anyone who'd have a go at a teacher for accepting a student who also goes to another teacher is totally in the wrong. There's a difference between spreading rumours that so and so is a paedophile, say in the hope of getting their students and simply accepting a student who comes to you.
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#1421264 - 04/21/10 12:04 PM Re: Polish teacher trying to get a piece of my student [Re: Nyiregyhazi]
Piano*Dad Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/12/05
Posts: 10356
Loc: Williamsburg, VA
Sarcasm, N, sarcasm. I also made reference to Pierogies and Kielbasa later on. You'll also recall another poster (landorrano) stating categorically that Polish teachers must have something going for them because Chopin was Polish. This all feeds into my writing style in that post. I don't care what the teacher's background happens to be (either one of 'em, actually).

We don't have a lot of information here. We do not know, for instance, whether this Polish teacher actually knows what's going on. I have speculated, perhaps correctly, that she probably does know. If so, I have outlined what I think would be the problems of that 'arrangement.' It would actually bother me if a teacher enrolled another student simultaneously without being up front with the family about the long term issues this creates. I think clarity is important. Students moving between teachers is normal and quite common. My own son has moved between teachers. But we have always been up front with the teachers, and the teachers have been clear with each other.
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Grotrian 192 #156455

https://www.youtube.com/user/dhfeld/videos

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#1421313 - 04/21/10 01:23 PM Re: Polish teacher trying to get a piece of my student [Re: Piano*Dad]
landorrano Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/26/06
Posts: 2457
Loc: France
Originally Posted By: Piano*Dad
Heck, maybe all people who have grown up in Poland are simply superior musicians, like Chopin .... yeah, right.


Maybe I should state that more clearly so that someone in North America has a chance to comprehend !

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#1421315 - 04/21/10 01:28 PM Re: Polish teacher trying to get a piece of my student [Re: Kreisler]
Monica K. Offline

Platinum Supporter until Dec 31 2012


Registered: 08/10/05
Posts: 17771
Loc: Lexington, Kentucky
Originally Posted By: Kreisler

We do not "own" our students. They are free to do what they want.


That comment is probably worth repeating in large colored print:

We do not "own" our students. They are free to do what they want.

This debate is so reminiscent of that controversial thread that came up a while back about the teacher who was distraught to discover that his/her student had participated in another teacher's recital. Anybody remember that one?

My view then, as it is now, is that students have the right to choose the music they play and the teacher(s) they take lessons from. So I see the student, and the student's family, in the current case as behaving entirely appropriately.

Of course, the following is *also* true:

Teachers have the right to set their studio policies however they wish.

Apparently it is extremely distressing to DarkDragon that the student is taking lessons simultaneously from another teacher. The proper solution to that dilemma is for DD to tell the student that his/her studio policy requires that students do not take lessons from anybody other than DD while enrolled in DD's studio. The ball is in then in the family's court as to whether they wish to continue taking lessons from DD under such constraints.

I know what my answer would be. I tend to get my dander up when others try to dictate what I can do in my own hours. smokin

As for the other teacher, I am in agreement with those here who hold him/her blameless. Student poaching surely violates professional ethics, but if the first contact was made by the student's family (which by all accounts it was), the teacher has, imo, behaved appropriately.
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Mason & Hamlin A -- 91997
My YouTube channel: http://www.youtube.com/pianomonica

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#1421324 - 04/21/10 01:36 PM Re: Polish teacher trying to get a piece of my student [Re: Monica K.]
keystring Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/11/07
Posts: 11655
Loc: Canada
The bottom line in any profession is that the welfare of the client matters, and that the professional will exercise his/her judgment according to knowledge in the field. If it is harmful to the student's progress to have two teachers and the teacher knows this to be so, but the parents (who are not teachers in the field) don't know it, then this should be communicated. It is not a matter of anyone being "boss". In the same way, if a doctor tells you not to mix medication and alcohol, or advises to lose weight and exercise, this is professional advice. A teacher going on an ego trip is one thing. A teacher who has legitimate concerns about being able to do his job properly is another matter.

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#1421330 - 04/21/10 01:43 PM Re: Polish teacher trying to get a piece of my student [Re: Piano*Dad]
Nyiregyhazi Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/24/09
Posts: 2464
Originally Posted By: Piano*Dad
Sarcasm, N, sarcasm. I also made reference to Pierogies and Kielbasa later on. You'll also recall another poster (iandorrano) stating categorically that Polish teachers must have something going for them because Chopin was Polish. This all feeds into my writing style in that post. I don't care what the teacher's background happens to be (either one of 'em, actually).

We don't have a lot of information here. We do not know, for instance, whether this Polish teacher actually knows what's going on. I have speculated, perhaps correctly, that she probably does know. If so, I have outlined what I think would be the problems of that 'arrangement.' It would actually bother me if a teacher enrolled another student simultaneously without being up front with the family about the long term issues this creates. I think clarity is important. Students moving between teachers is normal and quite common. My own son has moved between teachers. But we have always been up front with the teachers, and the teachers have been clear with each other.


Okay, fair enough. I think we basically agree. I'd just say that in such situations it's the client who is behaving badly, if they are not open with both teachers about the arrangement. I don't think it's justified to frown upon anyone who knowingly takes a student who also works with another teacher- or to refer to it as 'poaching'.
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#1421338 - 04/21/10 01:52 PM Re: Polish teacher trying to get a piece of my student [Re: Monica K.]
Nyiregyhazi Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/24/09
Posts: 2464
Originally Posted By: Monica K.
Student poaching surely violates professional ethics, but if the first contact was made by the student's family (which by all accounts it was), the teacher has, imo, behaved appropriately.


I agree entirely, but how would you define "poaching"- out of interest? I'm struggling to see how anything could really be professionally wrong- other than lying and being unreasonably derogatory about other teachers or making promises that you know you cannot keep etc. If the teacher does not deceive the student, obviously they are going for something that they like- and which may very well be to their benefit. I don't see what a teacher who is comfortable in their abilities and who has the interests of the students placed first could possibly fear- other than outright deceit. What is your own definition of "poaching"?
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#1421356 - 04/21/10 02:18 PM Re: Polish teacher trying to get a piece of my student [Re: Nyiregyhazi]
dumdumdiddle Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/16/06
Posts: 1264
Loc: California
Originally Posted By: Nyiregyhazi
Teachers are there to provide a service. Students should be free to receive opinions wherever they wish. You don't own your students. The idea of the other teaching having behaved wrongly is utter nonsense. If someone came to me and asked for a lesson am I seriously supposed to contact their teacher and ask their 'permission' to give a lesson? Who do you think you're kidding?



Wow, this attitude goes against the standards of MTNA and other professional music teacher organizations, which represent thousands of teachers in the US.
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#1421365 - 04/21/10 02:24 PM Re: Polish teacher trying to get a piece of my student [Re: dumdumdiddle]
janiveer Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 09/27/09
Posts: 10
Originally Posted By: dumdumdiddle
Originally Posted By: Nyiregyhazi
Teachers are there to provide a service. Students should be free to receive opinions wherever they wish. You don't own your students. The idea of the other teaching having behaved wrongly is utter nonsense. If someone came to me and asked for a lesson am I seriously supposed to contact their teacher and ask their 'permission' to give a lesson? Who do you think you're kidding?



Wow, this attitude goes against the standards of MTNA and other professional music teacher organizations, which represent thousands of teachers in the US.



surely an indictment of MTNA policy


Edited by janiveer (04/21/10 02:43 PM)

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#1421366 - 04/21/10 02:24 PM Re: Polish teacher trying to get a piece of my student [Re: Nyiregyhazi]
Dark Dragon Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/10/08
Posts: 97
Loc: ON
Originally Posted By: Nyiregyhazi
Teachers are there to provide a service. Students should be free to receive opinions wherever they wish. You don't own your students. The idea of the other teaching having behaved wrongly is utter nonsense. If someone came to me and asked for a lesson am I seriously supposed to contact their teacher and ask their 'permission' to give a lesson? Who do you think you're kidding?

Sorry, but I feel no sympathy whatsoever- considering the attitude you have about this. It can be frustrating to feel you are losing a student, but if you can't cope with that, you are letting yourself down both personally and professionally. Venting your rage only makes you look like you are under the impression that having taught someone for a few years gives you a divine right to control their every move. It does not. Even if she's a better teacher who cares? Yeah, because it's all about your pride and sense of power and that comes first? Honestly, your attitude disgusts me in more ways than I can describe. The parents even raised this with you before and you told them you were to busy to discuss it- and then you complain about it? Unbelievable. If I had a teacher with such a self-important (not to mention xenophobic) attitude then I wouldn't be with two teachers for very long. Guess which one I'd be stopping with...


I still have a few pages to read, but your's I will respond to first.
Tell you what. I'll make a move on your students without letting you know, and ultimately I will steal them off you because you will let them go without defending yourself in any way. It's all about the students right? I won't contact you and when "your" student comes to your lesson, he/she will be showing you things that I have taught her.

Why can't I vent and be angry? Is this not the place for me to vent and be angry? If I can't share my frustration with fellow teachers online, then (referring back to my festival argument) why would I even want to have this issues with teachers face to face? Is this not the place for me to deal with things in a mature and immature way so that when I speak to the father, I will have thought long and hard about what I'm going to say about this matter.

I only said I didn't have time at the start of the lesson yesterday. This intrusion on my students progress came BEFORE I was notified of anything. Am I not allowed to have a single night to think about the situation before saying something?

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#1421371 - 04/21/10 02:33 PM Re: Polish teacher trying to get a piece of my student [Re: Nyiregyhazi]
Monica K. Offline

Platinum Supporter until Dec 31 2012


Registered: 08/10/05
Posts: 17771
Loc: Lexington, Kentucky
Originally Posted By: Nyiregyhazi
What is your own definition of "poaching"?


Poaching would be Teacher A approaching a student individually whom Teacher A knows already to be taking lessons from Teacher B and then suggesting to the student that the student take lessons from Teacher A.

Simply advertising would not be poaching, nor would making an overture in a group context (e.g., giving a recital and then announcing that one has openings in one's studio at the present moment).
_________________________
Mason & Hamlin A -- 91997
My YouTube channel: http://www.youtube.com/pianomonica

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#1421383 - 04/21/10 02:58 PM Re: Polish teacher trying to get a piece of my student [Re: Monica K.]
farnorth Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 03/09/10
Posts: 5
Loc: North of Wa.,West of Canada
So I was in a piano gallery last week playing some pianos. The owner and I had been talking and she knows my teacher. After talking for a while she suggested that I take lessons from one of her teachers in addition to my own teacher, even though she SEEMS to think highly of my teacher(She stated that people do this all the time). Is this poaching?

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#1421389 - 04/21/10 03:06 PM Re: Polish teacher trying to get a piece of my student [Re: farnorth]
Piano*Dad Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/12/05
Posts: 10356
Loc: Williamsburg, VA
Ask your teacher what s(he) thinks of such an arrangement. smile
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Grotrian 192 #156455

https://www.youtube.com/user/dhfeld/videos

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#1421392 - 04/21/10 03:10 PM Re: Polish teacher trying to get a piece of my student [Re: Piano*Dad]
Lollipop Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/28/09
Posts: 820
Loc: Georgia
I did a quick Google search of piano teacher policies. This seems to be about standard:

Quote:
Teachers should not solicit as pupils those persons whom you know to be pupils of fellow teachers. However, members of the public have the right to choose their own teachers and, if they wish, transfer from one teacher to another.

When a student of one teacher wishes to transfer to another, it is the responsibility of the new teacher to be satisfied that the pupil has satisfactorily terminated all obligations with the previous teacher. New teachers should therefore ensure that all fees have been paid and any property such as books or audio-visual material returned to the previous teacher and that there is no professional reason why that pupil should not be taken on.


This is from the ISM website, "the UK’s professional body for musicians."
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#1421394 - 04/21/10 03:12 PM Re: Polish teacher trying to get a piece of my student [Re: Monica K.]
keyboardklutz Offline
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Originally Posted By: Monica K.
Poaching would be Teacher A approaching a student individually whom Teacher A knows already to be taking lessons from Teacher B and then suggesting to the student that the student take lessons from Teacher A.
At what point is Teacher A allowed to transgress this rule? When the student's in dire pain? When their career is heading down a chute?
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#1421396 - 04/21/10 03:17 PM Re: Polish teacher trying to get a piece of my student [Re: Lollipop]
Piano*Dad Offline
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That notice recognizes all the common sense issues that can plague this kind of market. You cannot easily legislate good professional behavior, but a code like that at least recognizes the basic forms of behavior that would make this market work smoothly while preserving mobility.
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#1421397 - 04/21/10 03:17 PM Re: Polish teacher trying to get a piece of my student [Re: keyboardklutz]
Lollipop Offline
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As I understand the rules, there is nothing to prohibit teacher A from suggesting to the student that he/she might be better off with teacher C. It is only when your suggestion directly benefits you that it becomes a problem. So by all means, if you see a student struggling for all the wrong reasons, feel free to suggest an alternative, as long as that alternative isn't yourself.
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#1421399 - 04/21/10 03:19 PM Re: Polish teacher trying to get a piece of my student [Re: keyboardklutz]
Monica K. Offline

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Registered: 08/10/05
Posts: 17771
Loc: Lexington, Kentucky
Originally Posted By: keyboardklutz
Originally Posted By: Monica K.
Poaching would be Teacher A approaching a student individually whom Teacher A knows already to be taking lessons from Teacher B and then suggesting to the student that the student take lessons from Teacher A.
At what point is Teacher A allowed to transgress this rule? When the student's in dire pain? When their career is heading down a chute?


I think it depends on whether Teacher A belongs to a professional organization that contains a set of ethics rules like the ones Lollipop quoted. If so, the answer is "Never." Of course, we could then start a huge philosophical debate about rule-breaking in the service of a greater need, etc., at which point I will be happy to bow out of the debate.
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#1421408 - 04/21/10 03:28 PM Re: Polish teacher trying to get a piece of my student [Re: Monica K.]
keyboardklutz Offline
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Registered: 05/21/07
Posts: 10856
Loc: London, UK (though if it's Aug...
Originally Posted By: Monica K.
Of course, we could then start a huge philosophical debate about rule-breaking in the service of a greater need, etc., at which point I will be happy to bow out of the debate.
I thought we had started that debate.
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