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#1742542 - 08/29/11 10:42 AM Re: Join the JOI jazz joint ! [Re: custard apple]
knotty Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/01/07
Posts: 2991
Loc: Bethesda, MD (Washington D.C)
Summertime is going to be tons easier to arrange!
Why don't you listen to some Billie Holiday on your down time? It's a nice way to learn a lot of tunes. Ella and Sarah Vaughan are great, too.
I'm doing Yesterdays now, nice and easy tune.
++

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#1742550 - 08/29/11 10:58 AM Re: Join the JOI jazz joint ! [Re: custard apple]
knotty Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/01/07
Posts: 2991
Loc: Bethesda, MD (Washington D.C)
10,

Getting to sound really nice. I like the crossing of the hands (or whatever that's called). Very fancy, you don't see that in jazz quite enough. Maybe Mehldau.

Here are a couple things I would say.
- You choose to play this with a pulse, which is a fine choice. In that case, you kind of have the keep the tempo steady. You could also decide to play it freely, which is very common for playing many ballads, and tends to carry more "emotion / feelings" (whatever that means).
- You could try to spice up many of these chords. For example on those high points with a lot of tension, you can play those "grown up chords" like you call them. That makes the arrangement a heck of a lot more difficult to memorize and play. Depends how good of a reader you are I guess. So you just do what you can.
- When you play those left hand patterns, almost stride, it's nice to throw in a few syncopations. Not playing the LH on 1 and 3 all the time. Sometimes, instead of playing 1 & 2 & 3 & 4, you can simply skip the first and play & 2 &3 ... Or generally play some notes on the &. That provides simply rhythmic interest.

Again, I think it's great to go back and listen to some of the great arrangements and see if you can pick up a nugget or 2. I know things go fast with Peterson, Tatum or KJ, but still, you can pick up a few things. Actually, you did pick up a few from KJ, didn't you?

Nice arrangement. Learn it and post in in the piano bar or something.

++

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#1742640 - 08/29/11 01:53 PM Re: Join the JOI jazz joint ! [Re: knotty]
ten left thumbs Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/22/09
Posts: 3336
Loc: Scotland
Originally Posted By: knotty
Summertime is going to be tons easier to arrange!


OK, next time I have free time. smile

Quote:

Why don't you listen to some Billie Holiday on your down time? It's a nice way to learn a lot of tunes. Ella and Sarah Vaughan are great, too.


Oh, I do, only I find it goes in one ear and out the other. Something about tunes from that era.

Quote:

I'm doing Yesterdays now, nice and easy tune.
++


There's a good example. I've made a real effort to get to know that song. Ask me to sing it, I have no idea. I look forward to hearing your arrangement. smile Who knows when it'll sink in?
_________________________
I am a competent teacher.


www.justfingers.co.uk
www.babysinging.co.uk

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#1742647 - 08/29/11 02:10 PM Re: Join the JOI jazz joint ! [Re: knotty]
ten left thumbs Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/22/09
Posts: 3336
Loc: Scotland
Originally Posted By: knotty
10,

Getting to sound really nice. I like the crossing of the hands (or whatever that's called). Very fancy, you don't see that in jazz quite enough. Maybe Mehldau.


Thanks! smile

Quote:

Here are a couple things I would say.
- You choose to play this with a pulse, which is a fine choice. In that case, you kind of have the keep the tempo steady. You could also decide to play it freely, which is very common for playing many ballads, and tends to carry more "emotion / feelings" (whatever that means).


Yes, will try both ways. this is all work in progress.

Quote:

- You could try to spice up many of these chords. For example on those high points with a lot of tension, you can play those "grown up chords" like you call them. That makes the arrangement a heck of a lot more difficult to memorize and play. Depends how good of a reader you are I guess. So you just do what you can.


I'm open to suggestion. That's as grown up as I know how. I'm playing the A section 3 times, so there's room for variation. mostly I put in as many 7ths and 9ths as I felt it could take, so if you see places could be further tweaked, let me know. smile

Quote:

- When you play those left hand patterns, almost stride, it's nice to throw in a few syncopations. Not playing the LH on 1 and 3 all the time. Sometimes, instead of playing 1 & 2 & 3 & 4, you can simply skip the first and play & 2 &3 ... Or generally play some notes on the &. That provides simply rhythmic interest.


Good idea, I'll see where that can go. There's some latin stride for the second run through the A section. I'll see what else can be made more interesting. I did want to leave some long notes, though, just to pause on them and pay attention to the harmony without necessarily rushing the next note in.

Quote:

Again, I think it's great to go back and listen to some of the great arrangements and see if you can pick up a nugget or 2. I know things go fast with Peterson, Tatum or KJ, but still, you can pick up a few things. Actually, you did pick up a few from KJ, didn't you?


I have Oscar playing this on my mp3 player, but didn't specifically listen for this, I just arranged. There's no keith, I haven't listened to him in ages.

Quote:

Nice arrangement. Learn it and post in in the piano bar or something.

++



Thanks, I will do that. Thanks for making the time to listen and make comments. I'm finding doing some arranging is a good way to keep me out of trouble with my RH. I figure I need to stay away from rh quavers till at least next week.

It's hard to know what to aim for with an arrangement. For example, I sometimes notice, here I go putting the root note in the LH again on beat 1. But, it sounds good. I try a few other things that don't sound so good. And revert back to root note, bass, beat 1.
_________________________
I am a competent teacher.


www.justfingers.co.uk
www.babysinging.co.uk

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#1742648 - 08/29/11 02:11 PM Re: Join the JOI jazz joint ! [Re: custard apple]
knotty Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/01/07
Posts: 2991
Loc: Bethesda, MD (Washington D.C)
>>There's a good example. I've made a real effort to get to know that song. Ask me to sing it, I have no idea. I look forward to hearing your arrangement. Who knows when it'll sink in?

Well I never said I'd record it. I might just throw in a couple of "grown up" chords that I'm trying to learn and then move on to another "lots of 2-5s" tune.

>>Oh, I do, only I find it goes in one ear and out the other. Something about tunes from that era.
Billie Holiday is the best. I once knew a record store owner in the Paris flea market ("les puces de St Ouen."). A lady came in to purchase a complete Billie Holiday set. And the guy said : "Sorry, can't sell this to a woman". I'm serious.



Edited by knotty (08/29/11 05:39 PM)

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#1742778 - 08/29/11 06:01 PM Re: Join the JOI jazz joint ! [Re: knotty]
ten left thumbs Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/22/09
Posts: 3336
Loc: Scotland
Originally Posted By: knotty

Billie Holiday is the best. I once knew a record store owner in the Paris flea market ("les puces de St Ouen."). A lady came in to purchase a complete Billie Holiday set. And the guy said : "Sorry, can't sell this to a woman". I'm serious.



!! grin I suppose I could say something inflammatory here, but perhaps I'd best not!
_________________________
I am a competent teacher.


www.justfingers.co.uk
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#1743107 - 08/30/11 07:53 AM Re: Join the JOI jazz joint ! [Re: custard apple]
custard apple Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/11/09
Posts: 2295
Loc: Sydney
Yeah, Billie is an amazing musician. One of my favourite compositions of hers is God Bless The Child.
Sonny Rollins' solo is the best.

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#1743108 - 08/30/11 07:55 AM Re: Join the JOI jazz joint ! [Re: custard apple]
custard apple Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/11/09
Posts: 2295
Loc: Sydney
10
I really like your intro to Over the Rainbow, how did you go about it ?
And I liked the couple of instances where you used your LH for the melodic lines.
Bill Evans is a master arranger, for an example of the "grown up" chords, study Dave's masterclass.

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#1743109 - 08/30/11 07:58 AM Re: Join the JOI jazz joint ! [Re: custard apple]
custard apple Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/11/09
Posts: 2295
Loc: Sydney
Hello !
This is my long line improv at 80 bpm of the F maj progression in 3 scales.

http://www.box.net/shared/c9blhuebcpezq56z9lac

Cheers
cus

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#1743137 - 08/30/11 09:32 AM Re: Join the JOI jazz joint ! [Re: custard apple]
knotty Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/01/07
Posts: 2991
Loc: Bethesda, MD (Washington D.C)
Sounds good Cus, you're really stretching the lines.
How many keys have you done?

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#1743151 - 08/30/11 10:20 AM Re: Join the JOI jazz joint ! [Re: custard apple]
ten left thumbs Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/22/09
Posts: 3336
Loc: Scotland
Originally Posted By: custard apple
Yeah, Billie is an amazing musician. One of my favourite compositions of hers is God Bless The Child.
Sonny Rollins' solo is the best.


Oh, I do like that song too.

It's been really frustrating me lately that I just don't know these types of songs. By 'know' I just mean, if someone says 'Jingle bells' I can immediately sing jingle bells. I don't necessarily mean I deeply understand the chords, just to basically be able to hum the tune.

Today I made a real effort with Yesterdays. I spent about half an hour on you tube listening to different renditions, and at no point did anything make any kind of musical sense to me. I couldn't just repeat a phrase, even one I'd just heard. Couldn't grasp anything of a tune, and then listen to the next recording and say, yes, that's the same tune. One thing I've realised, I don't really like Billie Holiday that much. It's the slow, mournful songs of that era, all the dramatic violins, and the gushing emotion, it's just not my taste. And so many of these standards, no-one's done recent recordings. No one sings them any more, they just solo over them.

So, I've got an action plan. I wrote a list of 10 standards that seem really popular with jazzers, they seem to be there in the Bible between Matthew and Mark, tunes I don't know. They are in my fakebook and I'm going to play them, just simple tune and chords. I'll not do anything fancy, if I want to arrange them later I can.

I've realised anything I assign myself to do, I can. smile I have learned some tunes (the ones I've focussed on), I think I'll just focus on it a little more.
_________________________
I am a competent teacher.


www.justfingers.co.uk
www.babysinging.co.uk

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#1743165 - 08/30/11 10:49 AM Re: Join the JOI jazz joint ! [Re: custard apple]
knotty Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/01/07
Posts: 2991
Loc: Bethesda, MD (Washington D.C)
what's in the list?

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#1743195 - 08/30/11 11:45 AM Re: Join the JOI jazz joint ! [Re: custard apple]
ten left thumbs Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/22/09
Posts: 3336
Loc: Scotland
Originally Posted By: custard apple
Hello !
This is my long line improv at 80 bpm of the F maj progression in 3 scales.

http://www.box.net/shared/c9blhuebcpezq56z9lac

Cheers
cus


custard, that sounds fantastic! thumb
_________________________
I am a competent teacher.


www.justfingers.co.uk
www.babysinging.co.uk

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#1743245 - 08/30/11 01:22 PM Re: Join the JOI jazz joint ! [Re: knotty]
ten left thumbs Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/22/09
Posts: 3336
Loc: Scotland
Originally Posted By: knotty
what's in the list?



yesterdays
my foolish heart
my funny valentine
just friends
i should care
stella
it could happen to you
everything I love
my romance
body and soul
_________________________
I am a competent teacher.


www.justfingers.co.uk
www.babysinging.co.uk

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#1743282 - 08/30/11 02:39 PM Re: Join the JOI jazz joint ! [Re: custard apple]
ten left thumbs Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/22/09
Posts: 3336
Loc: Scotland
Originally Posted By: custard apple
10
I really like your intro to Over the Rainbow, how did you go about it ?


Thanks. How did I go about it? Not sure really. I had something in mind first. Probably something grander and more flowing than what is there now. Trouble is, when I went to the piano the grand flowing thing dissolved. But I did think I wanted a bar just before the tune with 4 chords leading nicely into the start, so i tried going backwards through the cycle of 5ths, and that worked, so that stayed. Then I thought for the first bar, don't start on chord I, start somewhere else and get there. Then I played around with a few rh ideas. First the rh was doing simpler chord notes only, then I figured it could take a bit of colour.

Quote:

Bill Evans is a master arranger, for an example of the "grown up" chords, study Dave's masterclass.


I must go back to that, thanks for the tip.

I added some parallel 6ths in the rh today, but so far nothing else has cried out and asked to be changed. When I've written something, it gives me a real motivation to play it well.
_________________________
I am a competent teacher.


www.justfingers.co.uk
www.babysinging.co.uk

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#1743429 - 08/30/11 07:15 PM Re: Join the JOI jazz joint ! [Re: ten left thumbs]
custard apple Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/11/09
Posts: 2295
Loc: Sydney
Originally Posted By: ten left thumbs
Originally Posted By: custard apple
10
I really like your intro to Over the Rainbow, how did you go about it ?


Thanks. How did I go about it? Not sure really. I had something in mind first. Probably something grander and more flowing than what is there now. Trouble is, when I went to the piano the grand flowing thing dissolved. But I did think I wanted a bar just before the tune with 4 chords leading nicely into the start, so i tried going backwards through the cycle of 5ths, and that worked, so that stayed.


So do you mean that the song is in Eb so you tried something in Bb and Ab ?

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#1743430 - 08/30/11 07:19 PM Re: Join the JOI jazz joint ! [Re: custard apple]
custard apple Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/11/09
Posts: 2295
Loc: Sydney
Thanks 10 and Knots for listening to my improv.
For these 3 scale progressions ("I can't believe that you're in love with me"), I've only done 2 keys C maj and F maj.
I take one and a half weeks to do each key, I need to familiarise myself with the tonality before I can even begin try thinking melodically. Also I push myself to go up a notch on the met each time.

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#1743432 - 08/30/11 07:25 PM Re: Join the JOI jazz joint ! [Re: ten left thumbs]
custard apple Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/11/09
Posts: 2295
Loc: Sydney
Originally Posted By: ten left thumbs
Originally Posted By: custard apple
Yeah, Billie is an amazing musician. One of my favourite compositions of hers is God Bless The Child.
Sonny Rollins' solo is the best.


Oh, I do like that song too.

It's been really frustrating me lately that I just don't know these types of songs.


I'm in your situation. I think it depends on your upbringing. We're not from the era where we watch the old films in which most of these songs featured. Plus I didn't have jazz parents.

Like you I want to play from the American songbook and trawl through you-tube. I usually can find a version without the dated strings sound. I've just started singing Clifford Brown's beautiful ballad "It might just as well be spring" and I've found the Sarah Vaughan one with a very cool Miles Davis in support.

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#1743592 - 08/31/11 01:50 AM Re: Join the JOI jazz joint ! [Re: custard apple]
time flies Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/01/10
Posts: 125
Has everyone heard this composition on The Joy of C?

Wailing In The Joy Of C

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#1743622 - 08/31/11 03:19 AM Re: Join the JOI jazz joint ! [Re: custard apple]
custard apple Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/11/09
Posts: 2295
Loc: Sydney
wow ! Thanks for posting this. Actually this must be one of the few songs of Dave that I don't have. The improv BURNS.

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#1743624 - 08/31/11 03:22 AM Re: Join the JOI jazz joint ! [Re: custard apple]
davefrank Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/26/09
Posts: 672
haven't heard that in a long time. That wasn't a composition, that was an improvisation that used the first 2 lines of Joy of C as an outro. Recorded 13 years ago give or take.

Thank you very much for posting this, it means alot to me as each CD took years of endless work. This was from Power of the Piano, on the Jazzheads label. If I may be permitted, Jazzheads is now running a sale that allows you to download each of my four solo CD's for $7 complete at www.jazzheads.com.
What a deal:)

Blessings and keep swingin,

Dave Frank

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#1743630 - 08/31/11 03:32 AM Re: Join the JOI jazz joint ! [Re: custard apple]
ten left thumbs Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/22/09
Posts: 3336
Loc: Scotland
Originally Posted By: custard apple


So do you mean that the song is in Eb so you tried something in Bb and Ab ?


The song is in Eb, so the chords before it (2nd bar of intro) are Gm Cm Fm Bb7 (aka iii vi ii V). The first intro bar goes Ab Eb. The whole thing stays within Eb major.

The two bars were constructed backwards, from knowing where I wanted to get to (the beginning of the song).
_________________________
I am a competent teacher.


www.justfingers.co.uk
www.babysinging.co.uk

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#1743631 - 08/31/11 03:34 AM Re: Join the JOI jazz joint ! [Re: custard apple]
ten left thumbs Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/22/09
Posts: 3336
Loc: Scotland
Dave, how are you? Head above water?
_________________________
I am a competent teacher.


www.justfingers.co.uk
www.babysinging.co.uk

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#1743638 - 08/31/11 03:43 AM Re: Join the JOI jazz joint ! [Re: custard apple]
ten left thumbs Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/22/09
Posts: 3336
Loc: Scotland
Originally Posted By: custard apple

I'm in your situation. I think it depends on your upbringing. We're not from the era where we watch the old films in which most of these songs featured. Plus I didn't have jazz parents.


Glad to hear I'm not the only one. I also didn't have jazz parents but a brother who went mad on certain types of music, so I got lots of Leonard Bernstein and for a while, Frank Sinatra. Bit of temporary insanity for which I can now forgive him. smile

It just feels like a huge gaping hole of culture that actually takes a lot of effort to fill.
_________________________
I am a competent teacher.


www.justfingers.co.uk
www.babysinging.co.uk

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#1743658 - 08/31/11 05:51 AM Re: Join the JOI jazz joint ! [Re: ten left thumbs]
custard apple Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/11/09
Posts: 2295
Loc: Sydney
Originally Posted By: ten left thumbs
Originally Posted By: custard apple


So do you mean that the song is in Eb so you tried something in Bb and Ab ?


The song is in Eb, so the chords before it (2nd bar of intro) are Gm Cm Fm Bb7 (aka iii vi ii V). The first intro bar goes Ab Eb. The whole thing stays within Eb major.

The two bars were constructed backwards, from knowing where I wanted to get to (the beginning of the song).


Thank you 10 ! I'm not familiar with iii vi ii V as a progression. But as you say it's equivalent to cycling around in 4ths. (Incidentally that's how I play my Hanons smile
It's great that you're exploring different progressions. Arrangements really stretch you in all directions.

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#1743661 - 08/31/11 06:09 AM Re: Join the JOI jazz joint ! [Re: custard apple]
custard apple Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/11/09
Posts: 2295
Loc: Sydney
Hi Knotty
If you have time could you please tell me whether you like my new progression in Bb maj and the associated arps and scales ?

http://www.box.net/shared/a1aemno8a54vqeeamnrv

http://www.box.net/shared/ejjf0cndakvz87yv547z

Many thanks.
cus

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#1743705 - 08/31/11 09:06 AM Re: Join the JOI jazz joint ! [Re: custard apple]
knotty Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/01/07
Posts: 2991
Loc: Bethesda, MD (Washington D.C)
>>haven't heard that in a long time. That wasn't a composition, that was an improvisation that used the first 2 lines of Joy of C as an outro. Recorded 13 years ago give or take.
13 years ago... I think I was still enjoying a nice summer windsurfing in the area of Lacanau 13 years ago.

>>If I may be permitted, Jazzheads is now running a sale that allows you to download each of my four solo CD's for $7 complete at www.jazzheads.com.
Did you get approval from Cus. That's the process around here wink

>> so I got lots of Leonard Bernstein and for a while, Frank Sinatra
I love Sinatra. Great way to learn tunes, at least some of them.

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#1743707 - 08/31/11 09:12 AM Re: Join the JOI jazz joint ! [Re: custard apple]
knotty Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/01/07
Posts: 2991
Loc: Bethesda, MD (Washington D.C)
Cus,
I might do that for the progression
D F A C
D F Ab C
D F G Bb
C Eb Gb Bb

Or higher up
A C D F
Ab D G
G Bb D F
Gb C F

May I suggest something?
Get these all out of the way now. Write them and I can look if you like, but practice all keys every day. Once you get 1/2 way comfortable in Bb, move to Eb, but practice all 5 keys within that period (2 or 3 weeks, whatever).

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#1743708 - 08/31/11 09:13 AM Re: Join the JOI jazz joint ! [Re: custard apple]
knotty Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/01/07
Posts: 2991
Loc: Bethesda, MD (Washington D.C)
Yesterdays:
http://www.box.net/shared/qae5pt43anky99skrmm2

Quick wednesday morning before work recording. Getting ready to head into hours and hours of mindless talks... Wanted to get this out of the way.
Sorry, no ink.

++

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#1743727 - 08/31/11 09:47 AM Re: Join the JOI jazz joint ! [Re: custard apple]
ten left thumbs Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/22/09
Posts: 3336
Loc: Scotland
Thanks for posting, knotty, that was good. I think I'll tackle yesterdays first.

Cool arrangement! I liked your bass octaves.
_________________________
I am a competent teacher.


www.justfingers.co.uk
www.babysinging.co.uk

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