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Do you suppose it's a little bit like mass hysteria?

While I'm not going to pretend that I've read all nine pages of this sauric thread...I have listened to the audio files linked in the original post.

Is there anyone who's said that it doesn't sound EXCELLENT?

Interesting, with 9,495 views to this thread as of this moment, something, must be peaking the interest in this topic.


I am looking forward to hearing ppat and Nick Maul's recordings.

And, btw...listening to the Gershwin roll recoding re-enforces my admittedy xenophobic opinion that Europeans should not be allowed to play his music.

Flame suit zipped to the hilt...

LOL, JPDelmore....you just might need a fire extinguisher!

LOL!! Meh...Uh've had woise...

I hope folk will take it in the sense it was meant...that no American has come close enough, and Europeans, fine though they are, are even further out.

Of course, there is no way we could ever enforce such a ban...and really no reason to...

Oh...and if it's not perfectly clear yet...your piano sounds like a wet dream...

(Forgive me...as pseudo-Mozart said, I'm a crude man...)

"Mea Culpa, Mea Culpa".....:) I must apologize to Robert Scott, the inventor of Tunelab....I did not do the Overpull measurements correctly!

Since I had never used the Overpull function in Tunelab, and, it's a fairly new ETD for me, I was using the note that was in the center blue box as the note to play for the measurement, PLUS I was not muting all but 1 string....what I should have been doing was using the note in the right-hand box as the note to play. It says right there in the right-hand box, "now play C0" etc. etc.......LOL.....also, it's in very small print, so my eyes did not clearly focus on that...LOL...isn't getting old fun!!

Here are the "corrected" overpull figures for C Major:

Bass Bridge

C1- +25.9
E1- +17.6
G1- +14.9
C2- +6.5
E2- -0.2

Tenor Bridge

G2- -0.7
C3- -O.1
E3- +1.7
G3- -2.2
C4- -1.1
E4- +2.3
G4- -0.6
C5- +1.1
E5- +0.8
G5 +1.3
C6- -3.6
E6- -2.4
G6- -0.7
C7- -0.4
E7- +1.3
G7- +0.7
C8- 0.0

So, given those figures, would it help to use the overpull function when I tune?

Wouter79, I see I did not answer your questions about the Ampico etc.

Felix Fox did not play the Sheherazade, Adam Carroll did..I can't go back and change it.

The AMPICO used some 'tricks' as they say, to enhance their rolls. One of them was to add notes to a piece, which of course would be physically impossible for 1 person to play. It gave the roll a more robust presentation, more sound etc.

These were real people playing/recording these rolls, although, there was a lot of editing after the roll was recorded. The technology at that time, 1915-1935 was limited as to how much detailed information the recording piano could record. Therefor, music 'editors' would come in and clean up timing errors, add expression etc. After those edits, taking sometimes 5-6 weeks, such as the "Blue Danube" Concert Paraphrase, they would call the pianist in to listen to the piece. He/she would then make a few more suggestions as to expression, correct wrong notes etc, the pianist then gave the final ok, and the roll was mass-produced.

Sergei Rachmaninoff was reportedly paid $1,000 to record each of his rolls...that was a lot of money in those days. I don't think the pop pianists of that same time period were paid the same amount per roll.

Ok, so here's a couple of recordings I made last night

I tried something slightly different: I tuned the EBVTIII temperament, extended it downwards by stepping down with 6:3 octaves until B2 (up to the break, that is). Then I went with pure 12ths from there upwards (starting with F#4).

It shouldn't be a huge difference, but after 1) discussions in the stretch thread that Jeff (UnrightTooner) started, and 2) listening to Nicks close-to-pure 5th stretch, I wanted to see how EBVTIII accepts pure 12ths. Surprisingly well, would be my biased verdict

So this should be an EBVTIII that keeps it's characteristics all the way to the outer ends of the piano. I don't say that's better, but it could be an interesting addition to this lively thread (thanks GP for your enthusiasm!).

The piano I recorded is in my home, it's the piano that my family bought when I was around 10. Jeez, that makes it 30 years old :-O Time flies....





It's a Yamaha G2, as in slightly too short and compact, but I still like it The action is regulated a few years ago, so it is very playable. Not much bass and very prominent middle register, but that's the nature of these instruments.

There are one or two slightly twangy unisons, but I just couldn't grab the hammer while playing. Different mindsets, somehow.

Anyways, here's the music:

The first one is the Siloti piano transcription of Bach's prelude in B minor (originally E minor).

Bach-Siloti Prelude B minor, in EBVTIII

The same piece of music is used as an example on Bernhard Stoppers site (http://www.piano-stopper.de/html/klangbeispiele.html)

The second recording is of Ravels "Menuet sur le nom d'Haydn".

Ravel: Menuet sur le nom d'Haydn, in EBVTIII

Should anybody be interested, the score is available here:
Sheet music - Ravel: Menuet sur le nom d'Haydn

Feedback is, as always, most welcome!

JP,

I'm embarassed to admit that I feel much the same way myself - being an European and all

Well, pppat, the truth is often like that...no one wants to hear it, and it not nice to hear from others...but, see my post above, and you'll know that my respect for those European is well placed.

Wow Patrick...listening to your beautiful piano/tuning/playing as I type this!

Mystical, magical, ethereal come to mind as I listen to this...colors galore, harmonies that soar and intermingle and grab your attention, and the piano/strings are resonating like crazy when the pedal is up....just beautiful.

I plan to record a few more selections, since I just did a quick re-tuning.

Yes, I am definitely enthusiastic about this EBVT III, even with your modification, and your recording just further cements my belief in EBVT III.

I wonder how many will be in the minority now. We really should try and keep count.

I see your mic setup...is that 3 mics I see? I only have 2...I am tempted to try the mics on the outside of the piano, like you have in your picture.

I am glad to have started this thread...it really shows how a tuning/stretch can change the character of the piano. More to come!

I am sure we may encounter an extreme polarization :-)

Grandpianoman, don´t you think it would be helpful for Bill´s tuning to identify yourself, as well as we all do here and stand with our names for what we prefer? (I know you are a well known artist in your category)

Regards,

Bernhard Stopper

Herr Stopper...I can't imagine what difference grandpianonmans "real" identity would make...he's sort of a "non-combatant"...though I could see how some might regard him as a "rogue state"...

I hold you in high regard for your honest defense of your preferences. Please don't sully that with shady 'politics'.

Mr. Delmore,

be sure my motivation for this request wasn´t shady politics. The differences we hear stand for different tastes and it may be quite interesting for the readers of this thread, if there may be a preference of tastes from artists of different categories of music.
And it would of course help EBVT III to gain acknowledge if well known artists express their preference for it. There is no need to compete or convince people of what they want to prefer.


Regards,

Bernhard Stopper

Can we honestly parse "taste"?

If that is all it comes down to, is there an argument?

With respect,
John

There is no argument about taste. But a widespread tendency of people trying to convince others from their own taste. Highly humanly.

Regards,

Bernhard Stopper

GP - the middle starting pitch numbers look pretty normal, but those ones on the bass bridge? Hmmm, usually the bass bridge pitch stays the most stable due to humidity shifts...

Glad you are getting a bit more comfortable with the software / display interface!

Ron Koval
chicagoland

Mr. Stopper, while I can understand your reasoning for asking me to divulge my identity, I have purposefully tried not to have that known here on PW. I am still active professionally, and just do not want the publicity etc. that would invariably happen. As Mr.Delmore said, I would like to remain a 'non-combatant', but I am def NOT a 'rogue state' kind of guy.

I will say this much, I am a classically trained musician, (not a pianist :), and enjoy ALL kinds of music, except hard rock.

When I was growing up, I used to love to visit this one particular friend of my mother's...she had a grand piano, and I used to sit there and just play notes. Unfortunately, my parents never picked up on the fact I loved the piano, and music in general, so consequently growing up, I did not have any support from them for music. It was not until high-school, thanks to my high school choir director, and later a music college, that propelled me along in making music my life's work. So you can understand why I love the piano so much and why I have 2 player systems in there. I can never play the piano as well as they can.

Enough about me!...:)

Last night, I did a quick re-tune of my piano, and some recording, spurred on by Patrick's recording. I have to say, while I was recording "You'll Never Walk Alone" played by Roger Wiliams, (great pianist btw), I was moved literally to tears. Part of that is due to my losing a family member some years ago to cancer. The words to "You'll Never Walk Alone" are very cathartic and they bring up painful memories. However, I also feel that this emotion was due in large part to Bill's EBVT III. The harmonies are so incredible in this tuning, that it effects one's emotions. The sound was so beautiful, especially live, words cannot fully describe the beauty and emotion this piece did for me. I wish I could have cleaned up the twangy unisons, but no matter, it's breathtaking as it is. Listen to it with a pair of headphones, and I think you will be transported to another plane. This was about the 3rd piece I recorded after the tuning, so there are out of tune unisons, and that pesky treble section is not spot on, never the less, it's magical. Bravo Bill!

"Septmeber Song" "New York, New York", and "On A Clear Day" are just great. "On A Clear Day" was the first piece I recorded after re-tuning, so it has the least of the twangy unisons.

Mr. Stopper, it's not that I am out to change everyone's mind about EBVT III. I have put your tuning out there, as well as the RCT and Tunelab's take on it. I enjoyed your tuning, as well as the ET that was in my original ETD, and the tunings that I got from Tunelab and RCT. However, all them do not speak to me like this EBVT III does.

My intention in this thread, was to share with everyone, my newfound joy in EBVT III. Each of us have our own subjective ideas on what a beautiful sounding piano should be.

No matter how good/great something is, you cannot please everyone. Enjoy! GP


1. "You'll Never Walk Alone" played on the LX by Roger Williams, in EBVT III (transferred from the Pianocorder Library) http://www.box.net/shared/288rvn3qej

2. "On A Clear Day" played on the LX by Roger Williams, in EBVT III (transferred from the Pianocorder Library) http://www.box.net/shared/h50sbqivzh

3. Theme from "New York, New York", played ont he LX by Roger Williams, in EBVT III (transfered from the Pianocorder Library http://www.box.net/shared/57lxgrmymq

4. "September Song" played on the LX by Roger Williams, in EBVT III (transferred from the Pianocorder Library) http://www.box.net/shared/iqbytlal5g


** For everyone's info...Roger Williams recorded for the Pianocorder Company, back in the late 1970's early 80's. These selections were from an Album of songs he did for them back then. They have been transferred into the LX encoding.