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#1426988 - 04/30/10 07:50 AM Kawai CA111
SmokestackLightnin Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/04/10
Posts: 141
Loc: Leicester, United Kingdom
Has anyone played or does anyone own a Kawai CA-111 ?

It seems to be discontinued but its still retailing for a lot more than the CA93 that supposedly replaced it.

How does it compare to the CA93 ? which looks to be a much smaller piano at least size wise ?

Just curious as im in the market for a good DP which doesnt have a visible LCD panel and actually LOOKS like a piano.
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#1427028 - 04/30/10 09:50 AM Re: Kawai CA111 [Re: SmokestackLightnin]
mucci Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/29/10
Posts: 1070
Loc: Munich, Germany
The CA93 is the replacement of the CA91 respectively rather than the CA111 which does not (yet) have a replacement. The CA111 is more of a design upgrade than a technical upgrade. It looks pretty much as a regular acoustic upgright piano, not so much like a DP. On the other side it has the "old" technology from the CA51/71/91 series and has less sound variations than the CA91. The new CA93 is significantly improved in both keyboard action and sound, so I would consider this.
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#1427382 - 04/30/10 07:57 PM Re: Kawai CA111 [Re: mucci]
SmokestackLightnin Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/04/10
Posts: 141
Loc: Leicester, United Kingdom
Hmm well thats thrown a spanner in the works. Im attracted to the CA111 largely due to its traditional acoustic piano looks but obviously I dont want to sacrifice the action and feel. the amount of sounds doesnt really bother me as much as the quality of the piano sound.

what would you recommend then ? from what Ive seen the CA111 is the only DP that even resembles an acoustic piano.
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M-Audio ProKeys 88sx

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#1427484 - 04/30/10 10:58 PM Re: Kawai CA111 [Re: SmokestackLightnin]
Kawai James Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 10071
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
SmokestackLightnin, mucci is correct in that the CA111 belongs to the older CAx1 generation of models (original Harmonic Imaging sound, AWA Grand Pro II action).

That's not to say that the CA111 is necessarily a poor instrument - on the contrary, I actually think the combination of acoustic piano cabinet (based on a K-2 upright), soundboard speaker, and slide-out control panel makes for a great product.

However, I'd be lying if I said the action and sound technology could compare with the latest and greatest CAx3 generation.

I am hopeful that a CA113 will be launched in the future, however there are a number of new DP models scheduled before this time.

My recommendation would be to visit Keysound on Narborough Road, give the CA111 a play (assuming they have one available), and see what you think.

As for other DPs that resemble an acoustic, you may also want to consider the Roland LX-10.

Cheers,
James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

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#1428690 - 05/03/10 12:15 AM Re: Kawai CA111 [Re: Kawai James]
barryc Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 03/16/10
Posts: 14
Speaking of the LX-10, has anyone played the LX-10F? Just wondering, as on paper, it appears to be a pretty good instrument).

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#1428727 - 05/03/10 01:30 AM Re: Kawai CA111 [Re: barryc]
Kawai James Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 10071
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
I haven't tried the latest LX-10F, however the I have played both an LX-10 and an HP-307. Both were excellent, so I expect the LX-10F, with new action and SuperNatural piano sounds will make for a very, very nice instrument.

I'm not such a fan of the Roland 'Ivory Feel' key surfaces however - the grain texture seems a little over the top for my liking, however other than this minor niggle I found both the PHAII and PHAIII actions very playable.

Cheers,
James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

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#1428757 - 05/03/10 02:56 AM Re: Kawai CA111 [Re: Kawai James]
theJourney Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/22/07
Posts: 3946
Loc: Banned
Originally Posted By: Kawai James
there are a number of new DP models scheduled before this time.


Enquiring minds would love to know more about this number of new DP models scheduled before this time...

Care to enligthen us, James?

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#1428760 - 05/03/10 03:04 AM Re: Kawai CA111 [Re: theJourney]
Kawai James Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 10071
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
Sorry theJourney, that's not for me to say, I'm afraid.

However, if should be relatively easy to spot the product ranges that have been refreshed with improved sound and action technologies in recent months, then draw your own conclusions about what may or may not be coming in the future. wink

Cheers,
James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

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#1428762 - 05/03/10 03:08 AM Re: Kawai CA111 [Re: Kawai James]
theJourney Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/22/07
Posts: 3946
Loc: Banned
You are so coy.
Will it be called the MP8III?

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#1428770 - 05/03/10 03:43 AM Re: Kawai CA111 [Re: theJourney]
Kawai James Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 10071
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
No.

The MP8II was so called because it essentially served as a 'version 2.0' upgrade over the initial MP8.

The stage piano market has moved on since the time of the MP8/MP8II release. As such, I don't believe it would make sense to market an MP8III.

Cheers,
James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

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#1428919 - 05/03/10 10:55 AM Re: Kawai CA111 [Re: Kawai James]
Jeff Clef Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/05/08
Posts: 4457
Loc: San Jose, CA
"The stage piano market has moved on since the time of the MP8/MP8II release. As such, I don't believe it would make sense to market an MP8III."

MP8II is one of the digitals I'm looking at fairly seriously... yet there are some downsides that make it less compelling for my situation. I wonder if you would be willing to expand on your remark that the market has moved on, and say a little bit about which way you think it's going, what future releases might look like, and when they might be expected.

Maybe, when they get there, they can expect to find me waiting for them...
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#1429140 - 05/03/10 06:00 PM Re: Kawai CA111 [Re: Jeff Clef]
Kawai James Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 10071
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
Hello Jeff,

As you might expect, I am reluctant to go into too much detail about future products while existing models are still on the market.

My belief that the stage piano market has 'moved on' is based largely on the direction that such instruments have adopted in recent years. 5-10 years ago stage pianos offers hundreds of sounds and were considered as 'do everything' workhorses - a good example might be the CP-300.

More recently however, we have seen products such as the V-Piano - a revolutionary instrument that offers essentially one acoustic piano sound (albeit with an unparalleled level of adjustable parameters).
In addition, Yamaha's latest CP1/CP5 are geared towards electric piano players, with a lighter, ungraded keyboard action and the emphasis on effects, amp simulations, and the ability to adjust the tonal character of the sound. Finally, there are tone-wheel organ simulation instruments such as the Roland VR-700.

The stage piano consumer is becoming increasingly more specific (and fussy) in their requirements. These days I do not believe it is enough to offer a 'do-all' stage piano with hundreds of reasonable quality sounds - it makes more sense to specialise on a particular subset of sounds that are the most realistic available.

Kind regards,
James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

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#1429378 - 05/04/10 04:44 AM Re: Kawai CA111 [Re: Kawai James]
theJourney Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/22/07
Posts: 3946
Loc: Banned
Would love to play Kawai's VPiano....

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#1429466 - 05/04/10 10:00 AM Re: Kawai CA111 [Re: Kawai James]
dewster Online   content
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/07/09
Posts: 4551
Loc: Northern NJ
Originally Posted By: Kawai James
The stage piano market has moved on since the time of the MP8/MP8II release. As such, I don't believe it would make sense to market an MP8III.

Too bad. Of all the DPs out there, I consider the MP8/MP8II to have one of the most interesting feature sets. In particular the control layout and operation is highly intuitive. If it had better sounds I might consider getting one for our studio.
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#1429637 - 05/04/10 05:05 PM Re: Kawai CA111 [Re: dewster]
Jeff Clef Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/05/08
Posts: 4457
Loc: San Jose, CA
"Of all the DPs out there, I consider the MP8/MP8II to have one of the most interesting feature sets. In particular the control layout and operation is highly intuitive. If it had better sounds I might consider getting one for our studio."

Thank you, Dewster. I haven't been able to uncover much information about this model so far, but I think you have exactly nailed it. I'd except the concert grand sound; that is outstanding, and I also like the action better than most others. It worries me slightly that the floor model I saw had a few keys that made a rattling noise which suggested a loose part. Of course, I have a few rattling parts myself, so who am I to accuse an innocent keyboard which may have a lot to recommend it...

I just read through the whole MP8III user manual, and I have to agree that the feature set is pretty full compared to others I have seen. It is reassuring to hear you say it is intuitive--- that has been less obvious from the reading and brief hands-on time I've had. The downside for me is, no onboard sequencer (and the sound library--- some are convincing, others... not so much; reminds me of my old Proteus I). Yet it's obvious that Kawai has made a considerable effort.

The other contenders are the Fantom and the Motif, OR a less-expensive keyboard with software piano/orchestral instrument sample set, DAW, and scoring program. That, to interface with my Tascam 2488, mikes with cables, and real piano; it all seems like a lot of pieces to me. I have already discovered that you can be an engineer or you can be a performer, but trying to be both at once is not for the likes of me.

Sorting through all that is giving me considerable doubt. I have had a multi-unit system with an octopus of cables in the past, and greatly desire something that is both simpler and more completely adequate in a single unit. So far I can't seem to find just the right thing. Reading your evaluations (what a huge help that thread is!) has given me an idea why that is.

This has been a lot harder to make a decision about than which acoustic piano to get.
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Clef


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#1431402 - 05/07/10 11:11 AM Re: Kawai CA111 [Re: Jeff Clef]
Jantore Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 11/26/09
Posts: 8
Loc: London, UK
I love the look of the CA111, and have been saving up for one for some time. However, being broke, im still far from being able to afford a new one. So, i've been browsing for second hand ones, but there are not many around, at least not in the UK.. I've found a couple on the German Ebay as they seem to have been popular there. Did they not sell very well? (KawaiJames?). -I really hope kawai will keep upgrading this lovely model.

Also, the Roland LX10 is a fine instrument, but honestly, in my opinion its got nothing on the ca111 when it comes to looks and REAL-feel.

Jan

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#1431463 - 05/07/10 12:28 PM Re: Kawai CA111 [Re: SmokestackLightnin]
AndyT Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/31/09
Posts: 120
Loc: Cambridge, UK
Originally Posted By: SmokestackLightnin


Just curious as im in the market for a good DP which doesnt have a visible LCD panel and actually LOOKS like a piano.


the hp307's (and the hp207's) key lid allows you to conceal the control panel to make it look like a real piano.

Personally I think the CA63/93 is a good compromise.

Andy T


Edited by AndyT (05/07/10 12:28 PM)

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#1432032 - 05/08/10 04:40 AM Re: Kawai CA111 [Re: AndyT]
SmokestackLightnin Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/04/10
Posts: 141
Loc: Leicester, United Kingdom
Yeah Kawai James seems to suggest there might be a newer version of the CA111 called the CA113 possibly but hes being a bit cagey about saying anything definite.

By the time ive saved up for a CA111 the CA113 will hopefully be out !
_________________________
M-Audio ProKeys 88sx

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#1432033 - 05/08/10 04:53 AM Re: Kawai CA111 [Re: SmokestackLightnin]
Kawai James Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 10071
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
SmokestackLightnin, to clarify, I wrote that I was 'hopeful' about a CA113 being launched in the future - largely because I too am a fan of the 'digital piano that looks like a real acoustic upright' concept. wink

Cheers,
James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

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#1450687 - 06/05/10 09:04 AM Re: Kawai CA111 [Re: Kawai James]
Jantore Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 11/26/09
Posts: 8
Loc: London, UK
Does anyone have any idea of how the Kawai ca111 compares to the older, but much praised, Yamaha GT20?

The gt20 has been discontinued for years, and they are quite hard to come by. They look lovely though, and seem to have real good reviews.

Best,
Jan

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