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Betty,



To some others: for heaven's sake, we are talking about a 6 year old girl who has been playing for one year. Let's get things into perspective.

In my studio, if student make a mistake in the middle of the song, I will still let them continue to finish their song. When they finished, I will show them how the mistake part should sound like and try to correct them. I will also ask them to play one time (just the mistake part) in correct way. If they are able to do that, I will pass the song and move on to other song. If they are able to do that only after couple times of attempting, I will ask them to review the song for one more week and play it for me again next week.
Just want to say too that I don't think I am perfectionist, and this is what I would do in my studio.

It's never too early to play accurately within your limits. The habits you learn young are those that become the most deeply ingrained. The question should be how to achieve more through encouragment, without being negative or off-putting. Seeking improvement and positivity are not mutually exclusive, you know.

If a child accidentally steps into the road, does a parent seek to stop them from doing so in future? Or do they say, "they're only six, they'll probably do that from time to time". Mistakes at a piano aren't life threatening, but sometimes there's good reason why you seek to improve things. Pretending that inherent negatives are positives is not necessary. You just focus on the positives of how to progres.

Flawless surely is contextually understood here?

We mean no wrong notes, a steady pulse, accurate rhythm, correct touch and contrasting dynamic levels as indicated in the score (both of these last two qualities have a multitude of possible 'correct' realisations at this stage). Hand position hopefully graceful and without tension, but maybe that's still being worked on, depending on the physical propensity of the child.

If a child can't *ever* manage to play through a piece with a basically correct realisation of the score (I'm confident this is what we are actually talking about) then yes, I do think something is wrong.

I have never missed an opportunity toward making progress with a student. No one has ever gotten away with anything. I am a taskmaster with a cheerful attitude and a "can do" persona.

I examine all things with my student but we do it with the idea of examing what we heard and saw on the page and did we meet the composer's intention in this piece? We check to see that the student is comfortable with how he feels while playing - physically and mentally.
"Do you feel good about that?"
"Did you notice any problems?"
"What did you notice?"
"Are you satisfied with it?

Kids will give you good answers if you ask questions they can respond to. They are the first to tell me they want to play it again because they heard or felt something to fix on line 2 measure 3. They are able to choose to go back again or to go on. Most will go back willingly and find exactly what needs working on at the lesson.

When my students begin to build their own new music independently - intermediate level - ususally 3rd year - they are full of confidence and enthusiasm and reliable working skills and habits. Just yesterday, a girl in 3rd year, having her 11th birthday this week - brought in the 2 most recently assigned pieces from the week before, playing them incredibly well in every way. Now the final polishing and memory work in the next week maybe two. But, she also went home with 2 more new pieces of music to prepare on her own. Her markings she made during practice at home are only essential markings that she needed to make - she didn't miss a thing on the music.

The next thing I expect to have happen in about 3 months is that she will continue to get new music but will sight read them very well at the time I put them on the music rack and write their names on the assignment list in her notebook.

I think creativing an independent learning musician is allowing them to make their own mistakes, correct them, and for everyone in her/his support group from the beginning to be only positive and encouraging.

I know the harm parents, even if they say they mean well, can do. A supportive parent needs to take anything and everything up with the teacher without the student being aware of the issues the adults might have in meeting the students needs. I think our job is to help the student through the obstacles and keep them from harm, being trustworthy guides.

Woe does not belong in music making and is dysfunctional to the pursuit of happiness and excellence. Woe makes people miserable.

As teachers I think none of us would want a student whose ability to play expressively was paralized by their fear of making a mistake. Playing a piece well involves so much more than perfect rhythm and notes. The best performances I have witnessed were not note-perfect but could not be considered anything other than perfection in their ability to move an audience.

At the age of 6 is the time when you can create an understanding that, while paying careful attention to detail is important, the overall goal is to create beautiful art. She's young - the piano should be a source of enjoyment for her, not a source of stress. Focusing on the negative will be counter productive.

I'm enjoying this discussion, as I am continually evaluating and adjusting my teaching processes.

I am very much an inconsistent teacher at best! Judging by what I believe to be the student's ability at the moment, I may pass one student on, but make another student playing in a very similar way, repeat the piece. Perhaps I have one student spending a couple weeks on something that another student can sight-read at the same level. My standards for them are individual.

In early pieces, I am looking to see if they have mastered the basic concept presented within the piece. Is the piece teaching dynamics? Then I will be pickier about that particular concept, and more forgiving of other mistakes. I also am pickier about mistakes that recur over and over.

Keep in mind that a 6-year-old will developmentally not be able to follow as many steps as an older child. Right around age six is when they are learning to process several steps at once.

I do have students who seem to have trouble with attention span, as the OP mentions. Getting them to concentrate all the way through a piece is a challenge. I like the suggestion above of recording them. Sometimes a simple "I'm going to sit back and count your mistakes" works. They play, I count (silently.) When they are done, I point out the mistakes. Stopping and restarting after a mistake counts as an additional mistake (a mistake in rhythm.) Then they play again, and see if they can beat their own record. This simple game seems to help some of them concentrate better. I tease them gently as I do this - I tell them I'm trying to make them nervous. That takes the pressure off a bit.

Working on duets is a great way to get past the stopping and restarting.

Performance opportunities also encourage mastery. My students make a lot more mistakes when they "don't care". A child performing for her parents or teacher may not feel the same pressure to succeed as in a performance situation.

One of the things we do is to make a very clear distinction between "practice mode" and "performance mode". When you are in practice mode, you stop when you make mistakes and correct (5-10 times depending on conditions). When you are in performance mode, you continue if you make a mistake. This seems to work well for us because it is very clear to the kids exactly when they should be stopping and when you shouldn't. Note that "performance mode" can occur at any time (e.g. during a lesson or during practice) and isn't restricted to "real" performances, it's simply an explicit way to clearly state expectations.

As for the conditions in which mistakes are made (referencing lollipops statement) we find that our daughter sometimes has the opposite effect. When she is more casual, she relaxes more and is less likely to make a mistake, but during performances/competitions/etc she can sometimes tense up and become more likely to make mistakes. So the situations in which mistakes are more likely occur can definitely vary.

And finally about a 6yo with a year of experience. It's not uncommon or unusual for that level of expectation given the age and experience.

As teachers I think none of us would want a student whose ability to play expressively was paralized by their fear of making a mistake.

True, but it must be remembered that fear of making a mistake often comes through likelihood of making a mistake. It's not the only source. But it's a very powerful source of nerves. Confidence comes from nowhere more than than assurance. If you don't deal with things at source, they become likely in performance. And no amount of positivity will help if the performance breaks down. Kids are often very self-critical themselves. Having been told that wrong notes don't matter may not help, if they see peers play more accurately. They need to be shown how to deal with them in the simplest way possible. That does not mean making them feel like they have failed when they make mistakes. But, important, neither does it mean pretending that a high frequency of mistakes in practise does not matter.

At the age of 6 is the time when you can create an understanding that, while paying careful attention to detail is important, the overall goal is to create beautiful art. She's young - the piano should be a source of enjoyment for her, not a source of stress. Focusing on the negative will be counter productive.

Which is why you do not do so. I don't think such collossal straw-man arguments are much use here. I like Betty's positive attitude tremendously. It's a fine example. However, I could never condone the idea of encouraging kids to think that mistakes in practise do not matter. Psychology aside, they do. There is plenty of evidence about that, in terms of the way brains and neural pathways develop. So you need to show how to fix things, without making negatives. It's interesting to note that Anton Rubinstein was said to have been very strict about accuracy from students- despite being renowned for his countless wrong notes. He knew the difference between giving a spirited performance and setting all-important foundations.

It's simply not a case of either being positive about detrimental errors or making scathingly negative criticisms. That's a huge simplification.

PS. Regarding continuity of rhythm, I recently started using an exercise for sight-reading where the students must play the rhythm as written but are not permitted to play ANY correct notes at all. I alternate this with another one, where they are required to play every note flawlessly, but with no rhythm whatsoever. They can take 10 seconds per note and are encouraged to tap the key first, to aid certainty. I think these opposing extremes could be very valuable. One is only about not stopping. The other is only about taking your time and being certain to read properly and plan, rather than ever going for a "hit and hope". Blend the results together and you should have a nice balance.

Thompson and Beyer is a recipe for disaster. Do you have more current method books available? One thing your daughter is missing is intervallic reading.

It is perfectly normal for 6-year-old kids to play pieces with flaws. For my own students, I look for correct notes, fingering, and rhythm. Those are required for every piece assigned, although I've learned to "open one eye and close one eye." Sometimes when the kid plays 75% correct, it's time to put a sticker on the page and move on.

Spending more than 3 or 4 weeks on the same 8-bar piece can drive a student (or teacher!) crazy.

re: Nyiregyhazi,

Thanks for the clarification - I completely agree with you. It wasn't my intent to state that students should never learn to play a piece without mistakes...simply that at the young age of 6 the joy of the piano should be the main focus. Hopefully a large portion of that joy comes from being able to play well - which, of course, involves the ability to play accurately without mistakes.

Many children take great pride in playing "flawlessly", others are so concerned about doing something wrong that their expressiveness suffers as a result. We wouldn't be doing our job if we didn't encourage accuracy, but I've always found that by focusing mainly on the positive, the students' weaknesses improve as a result as their confidence grows. They are more willing to take chances in their learning if they feel as though they are successful.

Thank you all for the great discussion and advice.

Betty, I'll be more positive and encouraging, focusing more on the love and enjoyment of music. John B. may have a point here: my own anxiety about the issue may affect my daughter's play.

In the meantime, we'll try Nyiregyhazi's sight reading method. I mention it to my daughter upon reading the post and she thinks keeping the rhythm without playing correct notes could be so much fun!

As for the method books, I have no idea. I thought Thompson an Beyer are pretty standard, no?

Let me know how it goes. It's still very much an experimental idea, although I'm pretty confident that it has benefits. Remember though, they're not allowed to play ANY notes correctly at all! Also, I'd definitely complement it with the one that involves ultra-slow note reading with no rhythm whatsoever (get them to just pretend that they might get sent to bed early if they hit more than two or three wrong notes, say, but stress they have as much time as they need to tap the keys and check each one, so there's assurance rather than panic). Put the two of those together and before long when they play normally they'll routinely be playing completely random notes with no sense of rhythm at all. Or hopefully, they'll remember the good parts of each instead!