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#1401502 - 03/22/10 06:17 PM Re: Avant Grand N2 vs N3 [Re: 4evrBeginR]
Volusiano Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/01/10
Posts: 770
Originally Posted By: 4evr88
Congrats. I'm also awaiting the delivery of my Avant Grand. 48 hours is a long time to wait for this thing....

4evr88, I notice that you bought the N3 on your signature. The N3 has kind of an odd shape so when it's stood on the side for moving, its bass side is not long enough to provide stability like a normal acoustic grand's bass side is. There's a wedge shape block that comes with the shipping to help support it on the side better. If you download the N3 manual from the Yamaha website and look at the Assembly section on page 41, you'll know what I'm talking about.

My dealer threw everything away and just delivered the N3 to me the traditional way (wrap blanket around and strap it up). But the delivery guys complained to me that it's harder for them to keep the N3 stabilized compared to a conventional grand for that reason (shorter bass side). They used extra blankets to stuff underneath where the wedge block is supposed to be, but it's still not optimal compare to if they had had that wedge block.

Anyway, I wish I had known in advance to ask the dealer to keep that wedge block for me to use in future moving. So I just want to pass on that knowledge in case you may want to do that.

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#1401505 - 03/22/10 06:25 PM Re: Avant Grand N2 vs N3 [Re: Volusiano]
jmmec Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/02/10
Posts: 86
Loc: New Mexico (yes, USA!)
Out of curiosity, what does an N2 generally sell for in the U.S.? (A ballpark figure should suffice)



Edited by BB Player (03/22/10 06:57 PM)
Edit Reason: Let's leave the political commentary out.
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#1401538 - 03/22/10 07:25 PM Re: Avant Grand N2 vs N3 [Re: Volusiano]
4evrBeginR Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/27/09
Posts: 1602
Loc: California
Thanks Volusiano; my dealer propably threw everything away too because I'm getting the one on the floor, so I guess I better call the dealer to make sure they are aware of the instability during transport.

jmmec, the N2 at my dealer (San Francisco, CA) is going for $10,000 USD.

The first time I played the N3, I didn't like it at all, because the sound was clearly piano-from-speakers and had no acoustic piano illusions. Then the second time recently, the problem of "speaker-like" piano sound was completely gone. I discovered the first time I tried it, the N3 was backed against the wall (tail facing wall) and that was causing the problem. It also caused way too much bass. Second time, the N3 was in the middle of the floor and the effect is very natural.

I remember my first impression of the N3 was, wow for this effect, I could just get the CLP-380 and save $10K. Of course, keyboard is not the same, but I didn't feel the difference in the keyboard was worth $10K. Then I returned to try the N2 and loved it. Then recently went back to try the N3 again and what a difference. It goes to show where you put these things makes a HUGE difference.
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#1401550 - 03/22/10 07:51 PM Re: Avant Grand N2 vs N3 [Re: 4evrBeginR]
Volusiano Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/01/10
Posts: 770
4evr88, I'm sure the dealer will have more N3 coming in, so I've actually just called mine up to ask that they save me that wedge piece the next time they get another one in and I'll stop by to pick it up. I got the one on the floor, too.

I agree that placement of the N3 is everything, not any different than placement of an acoustic grand. I have mine in the middle of a great room surrounded by the kitchen, entertainment room, and dining room, with a 15 foot cathedral ceiling in the middle, and it sounds great.

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#1401603 - 03/22/10 09:17 PM Re: Avant Grand N2 vs N3 [Re: kippesc]
Melodialworks Music Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/19/05
Posts: 1309
Loc: Canada
Originally Posted By: kippesc



In particular, the N2 allows for very realistic pianissimo. With the NW action in the 380, I was having a devil of a time playing quiet blocked chords precisely in unison (the type of chords found in much of Debussy, for example, and Brahms, Chopin -- classical literature, generally, I guess). The N2, by contrast, plays like an acoustic grand. It is far easier to voice chords (e.g., the hymn-like passage of Brahms Op. 118, No. 2). Also, the samples on the N2 are superior. Even the tuning is better. Some of the unisons on the 380 weren't as clean as they could be when listened to with high quality headphones (Sennheiser HD 580 or HD 600) (try, for example, pp on 2 d-flats above middle c -- i.e., the first note of La fille avec cheveux de lin -- is THAT the fifth velocity layer? Yuck.). The N2 is much better, using the same Sennheiser headphones.


Wow. I'm getting excited reading this . . . !
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#1401620 - 03/22/10 09:43 PM Re: Avant Grand N2 vs N3 [Re: 4evrBeginR]
coz Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/07/10
Posts: 34
Loc: United States
I wonder how this affects the N2 as well. There are speakers facing the wall and now I'm wondering how close to wall I should put it?

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#1401627 - 03/22/10 09:52 PM Re: Avant Grand N2 vs N3 [Re: coz]
Volusiano Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/01/10
Posts: 770
Originally Posted By: coz
I wonder how this affects the N2 as well. There are speakers facing the wall and now I'm wondering how close to wall I should put it?


Coz, I would think that the N2 as an upright should be designed to be set up against the wall as the optimal placement, so I wouldn't worry there'd be an issue with it sounding bad against the wall. The only question would be whether you can put it right up against the wall or may have to place it a few inches away. And that's something you can experiment to find out when you have it at home.

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#1401675 - 03/22/10 10:48 PM Re: Avant Grand N2 vs N3 [Re: Volusiano]
coz Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/07/10
Posts: 34
Loc: United States
Yeah I'll probably try both ways. I'll report back next week.

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#1401708 - 03/22/10 11:44 PM Re: Avant Grand N2 vs N3 [Re: coz]
4evrBeginR Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/27/09
Posts: 1602
Loc: California
Start with 4 inches away from the wall and tweak it from there... do let us know your optimal distance.
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Art is never finished, only abandoned. - da Vinci

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#1402691 - 03/24/10 11:21 AM Re: Avant Grand N2 vs N3 [Re: 4evrBeginR]
coz Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/07/10
Posts: 34
Loc: United States
4evr88, did you get your N3 yet?

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#1403224 - 03/25/10 02:16 AM Re: Avant Grand N2 vs N3 [Re: coz]
4evrBeginR Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/27/09
Posts: 1602
Loc: California
Yup, today! grin
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#1403227 - 03/25/10 02:22 AM Re: Avant Grand N2 vs N3 [Re: 4evrBeginR]
Volusiano Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/01/10
Posts: 770
4evr88, I have a question to compare notes. The "soft" left pedal on the N3 is supposed to reduce the volume and slightly changes the timbre of the notes played. Well, I can notice the changes in the timbre of the notes played as expected on mine. However, the volume reduction is barely perceptible on mine. The thing is, I don't really know how much volume reduction I should expect. I wonder if your volume reduction is more obvious or not.

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#1403230 - 03/25/10 02:37 AM Re: Avant Grand N2 vs N3 [Re: Volusiano]
4evrBeginR Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/27/09
Posts: 1602
Loc: California
Only very slight reduction, depends on which note, but more noticeable if you use both sustain and soft pedals at the same time. I think it's actually really good.

I really like the way N3 handles this. On my old CLP, the soft pedals lowers the volume, a lot, without changing the timbre. I didn't know how fake that was until I got my GC1M. That's not how my GC1M responses at all. My GC1M acts more like the N3. Wait a minute, I mean the other way around. The only difference, my GC1M keyboard shifts to the right when I press on the soft pedal, of course. Also, on the bass notes that has two strings, my GC1M is slightly softer with soft pedal than bass strings with one string where only timbre difference is heard more or less. Also, there's not much difference in the middle and more in the treble. The N3 doesn't completely replicate all these subtle differences, but it's much better than my CLP for sure. Also, I think the strings count on the CFIIIS scale is very difference from the C1 scale design of my piano. Sorry rambling.
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#1403315 - 03/25/10 07:34 AM Re: Avant Grand N2 vs N3 [Re: 4evrBeginR]
coz Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/07/10
Posts: 34
Loc: United States
congrats enjoy it

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#1430628 - 05/06/10 12:51 PM Re: Avant Grand N2 vs N3 [Re: Volusiano]
jeff749z Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/08/10
Posts: 31
Loc: United States
I've had my N2 for a month now. I was amazed at the sound at the store and of course no matter where the piano goes, it produces great sound. Recently, after trying to get the volume set just right (mine is placed in a 12X12 bedroom i've converted into a studio with full wall/ceiling sound absorption treatments), i've found the higher register of the keyboard to be a little out-of-balance. Mostly, I'm thinking I need to move it as it is about 6 inches off of the wall. The floor is hardwood, with a large rug in the middle. Some notes in particular seem to pierce right through and are almost uncomfortable. I may simply need to move it, or adjust the sound absorption panels in the room. (Auralex 2x4 panels with 4 sono column bass traps)
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#1430915 - 05/06/10 06:36 PM Re: Avant Grand N2 vs N3 [Re: jeff749z]
Dave Ferris Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/12/07
Posts: 1675
Loc: Glendale, Ca.
smile
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2005 NY Steinway D, Nord Piano 2

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#1430943 - 05/06/10 07:07 PM Re: Avant Grand N2 vs N3 [Re: Dave Ferris]
bkmz Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/19/09
Posts: 142
Loc: Belarus
Something like this, I suppose.

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#1430998 - 05/06/10 08:10 PM Re: Avant Grand N2 vs N3 [Re: bkmz]
Volusiano Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/01/10
Posts: 770
It's interesting that he kept the lid down on that video. It's been discussed that the lid must be up for the best sound performance, as there are speakers inside under the lid that need to be heard with the lid opened. I wonder if they fed the direct out lines into the video recording, or if they just let the camcorder's mic pick up the sound over the air.

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#1431025 - 05/06/10 08:49 PM Re: Avant Grand N2 vs N3 [Re: Volusiano]
bkmz Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/19/09
Posts: 142
Loc: Belarus
It's obviously recorded from lineout. That's why the lid is closed.
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#1431049 - 05/06/10 09:16 PM Re: Avant Grand N2 vs N3 [Re: bkmz]
Dave Ferris Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/12/07
Posts: 1675
Loc: Glendale, Ca.
cool
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#1431087 - 05/06/10 10:14 PM Re: Avant Grand N2 vs N3 [Re: Dave Ferris]
jeff749z Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/08/10
Posts: 31
Loc: United States
Originally Posted By: Dave Ferris
Originally Posted By: jeff749z
I've had my N2 for a month now. I was amazed at the sound at the store and of course no matter where the piano goes, it produces great sound. Recently, after trying to get the volume set just right (mine is placed in a 12X12 bedroom i've converted into a studio with full wall/ceiling sound absorption treatments), i've found the higher register of the keyboard to be a little out-of-balance. Mostly, I'm thinking I need to move it as it is about 6 inches off of the wall. The floor is hardwood, with a large rug in the middle. Some notes in particular seem to pierce right through and are almost uncomfortable. I may simply need to move it, or adjust the sound absorption panels in the room. (Auralex 2x4 panels with 4 sono column bass traps)


Congrats on the AG and glad you're digging it.

Just curious as I see you have Logic--have you made any solo recordings with the N2 . If so, how does it sound recorded?


Actually I've been having some issues with the Audio outs. I've recorded some audio anomalies that almost sound like word clock issues. I've been in conversation with a few folks about getting the best sound out of it, and it's a bit of a challenge seeing as the 4-channel sample cannot be directly sent via the unbalanced audio outs.

That being said, the piano is quite rich and full when recorded. I'd like to know how those guys in Germany recorded that N2,(in the youtube video posted above) i'm guessing some mics were involved
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#1431258 - 05/07/10 05:36 AM Re: Avant Grand N2 vs N3 [Re: jeff749z]
Melodialworks Music Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/19/05
Posts: 1309
Loc: Canada
Originally Posted By: jeff749z

I've had my N2 for a month now. I was amazed at the sound at the store and of course no matter where the piano goes, it produces great sound. Recently, after trying to get the volume set just right (mine is placed in a 12X12 bedroom i've converted into a studio with full wall/ceiling sound absorption treatments), i've found the higher register of the keyboard to be a little out-of-balance. Mostly, I'm thinking I need to move it as it is about 6 inches off of the wall. The floor is hardwood, with a large rug in the middle. Some notes in particular seem to pierce right through and are almost uncomfortable. I may simply need to move it, or adjust the sound absorption panels in the room. (Auralex 2x4 panels with 4 sono column bass traps)



Is there any way that you can try the piano centred in the room? (I guess it would depend on what else is in the room).
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#1431272 - 05/07/10 06:49 AM Re: Avant Grand N2 vs N3 [Re: Dave Ferris]
bkmz Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/19/09
Posts: 142
Loc: Belarus
Originally Posted By: Dave Ferris

I was referring to the RECORDED sound of the sample into Logic/computer or Hard Disc recorder. That is the sound coming from THE SPEAKERS. I have played the N2 probably a DOZEN times.


You must be kidding, aren't you? The sound quality on this video is too high to be recorded from speakers. And there is absolutely no "room" in sound. And the overall sound character is quite artificial and digital, like all lineout recordings.
Is this so hard to hear?

Besides, all new videos from MusicSchmidt are recorded from lineout, you can check the other ones.

Here is recording with microphone (from 4:20):



Quote:
I think I know what the N2 sounds like coming through its own internal speakers.


But you don't know how N2 sounds from lineout, right?
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#1431274 - 05/07/10 07:01 AM Re: Avant Grand N2 vs N3 [Re: bkmz]
EssBrace Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/01/09
Posts: 2322
Loc: Suffolk, United Kingdom
I agree all recent MusikSchmidt videos are recorded from lineout, no doubt about that although some are in mono. They have unwittingly created a very useful resource for us all!

Steve
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#1431283 - 05/07/10 07:17 AM Re: Avant Grand N2 vs N3 [Re: EssBrace]
sullivang Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/05/09
Posts: 2100
Loc: Sydney, Australia
I too thought the MusikSchmidt N2 clip was direct, however I am a bit confused because I think I can hear a bit of sound from the mic as well. (e.g I can hear a TINY bit of sound from his lips, just before he starts speaking, and when he does start speaking, the piano suddenly gets louder, as if someone had increased the mic gain) Is it possible that they simply greatly reduced the gain of the mic during the piano playing, without turning it off completely?

Greg.

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#1431284 - 05/07/10 07:24 AM Re: Avant Grand N2 vs N3 [Re: sullivang]
NikkiPiano Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/05/10
Posts: 172
Loc: Hertfordshire, UK
Sounds like they simply crossfaded inside a NLE.

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#1431285 - 05/07/10 07:38 AM Re: Avant Grand N2 vs N3 [Re: NikkiPiano]
Melodialworks Music Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/19/05
Posts: 1309
Loc: Canada
Does anyone here read / write German, and could contact MusikSchmidt directly and inquire?
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#1431287 - 05/07/10 07:43 AM Re: Avant Grand N2 vs N3 [Re: Dave Ferris]
Melodialworks Music Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/19/05
Posts: 1309
Loc: Canada
Originally Posted By: bkmz






At 12 sec. and a bit before, you can see two cables hanging down on the right-hand side of the piano. Would they not be audio cables? (This would seem to support that a direct line out recording process was used).

Lawrence


Edited by Melodialworks Music (05/07/10 07:43 AM)
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#1431295 - 05/07/10 08:20 AM Re: Avant Grand N2 vs N3 [Re: Melodialworks Music]
mucci Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/29/10
Posts: 1070
Loc: Munich, Germany
Originally Posted By: Melodialworks Music
Does anyone here read / write German, and could contact MusikSchmidt directly and inquire?


I could do so but I'm 100% sure that you can contact them in English - even mediocre school English in Germany should be fine to understand your inquiry!
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#1431334 - 05/07/10 09:50 AM Re: Avant Grand N2 vs N3 [Re: mucci]
dewster Online   content
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/07/09
Posts: 4265
Loc: Northern NJ
Almost every German I worked with spoke English better than me. smile

And I cast my lot with this being 100% line-out, not miked. Other than that pure line-out sound, for me the biggest cue is the typically exact pan of the bass and treble notes towards left and right respecitvely.

From 0:56 to 1:00 the audio drops out during the note damping. Perhaps some kind of auto crossfade for the microphone? Or AGC acting up?
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