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I just won $1000 from my landlord company in a lease renewal contest, and I am considering buying a digital piano with it.

I am a piano major and it's very frustrating living off campus as my practice times are very restricted and regimented due to piano availability, weather (university is closed for snow often in the winter), and time (sometimes I need a 2am practice session).

My question is simple as I know virtually nothing about digital instrumets:

Can I get a serious digital instrument for $1000? I need it to be as close to an acoustic grand as possible. The action is more critical than the sound - I need to be able to practice pretty much anything on it without thinking "Ugh I can't play this passage because the notes don't repeat fast enough on the piano".

I plan on going to a guitar center and trying out a few, but if I could be directed specifically what to look for I'd greatly appreciate it.

If there's nothing great around $1000 (or within $100 or $200 of it) I'll just invest the money instead.

Thanks in advance!

EDIT: I'm not sure if this matters (I've seen several posts that refer to using a computer to get better sound somehow?), but the piano will be right next to a powerful 3.6ghz core i5 system with SSD hard drives and 8GB of memory.

Yamaha P155. And in 5 years if you want a different sound you can purchase Ivory 3.0 or Pianoteq 6.0 and plug your p155 into your computer too.

For $1,000 I'd suggest any Yamaha with the "GH" key action. As you know all acoustic pianos are different the digital piano can't match them all. The "GH" keys are in the range of what youo'd find in acoustics. The CP33, P155 and YDP160 all use the same GH keys but the case, stands and features differ. The CP33 is a stage piano and lacks speakers, the YDP is a home piano it comes with a wood-look stand and case. The P155 is a practice piano and has it's own small built-in speakers. The CP33 is exactly $1,000 at Guitar canter the others cost more.

Try a Roland RD700GX and/or Roland FP7 while you are there. You might like the key action of those more so than Yamaha GH. But the Rolands cost at least doube yur budget. Bothe Rolland and Yamaaha make low cost pianos then the ones I listed above but you said key action is important.

The P155 has the best sound generation technology of the GH based Yamahas and it does sound like a Yamaha grand, slightly bright. Roland sounds more American/European. The P155's weal link is it's speakers but you can add external speakers later if you want more volume and power in the bass.

Yes you can use the computer for sound. A MIDI cable transfers the key presses to the computer, software converts that to sound and then you need good speakers for the computer to play the sound. You could spend $700, plus or minus $300 for the software, audio/midi interface and speakers. Just use the internal sound, at least at first.

Because you're a piano major, you might want to look at "home" pianos. They have pedals built into their cabinets. Yamaha's P85 is c.$700, including stand and three-pedal unit. (The sustain pedal - damper on an acousitc - has what in the digital world is often called "half pedaling". That should mean that it's a continuous controller, rather than an on-off switch.) This model is fitted with the GHS - graded hammer standard - action. It's a little noisy when rebounding quickly, but it has a decent touch. Yamaha's actions have a good reputation for durability and quality control.

Guitar Center carries this model, but I don't know if they have the stand and pedal unit. Kraft Music does.

Re using a computer to get a better sound, basically what you'd do is connect your DP to a computer using MIDI or MIDI/USB. The DP then becomes a controller, i.e., you're using it to control a software piano which is stored on your computer. (The computer specs you listed should let you use any software piano whose tone appeals to you.) The sound would be routed back to your DP via audio cables.

The quality that you hear depends on the quality of your soundcard. E-mu's 1212M has outstanding audio quality for the price - c.$140. The card requires one free PCI slot *and* a second, free bay. That's because there's a second card which includes the MIDI and audio connectors. MIDI In/Out and audio In/Out is a great way to connect a DP to a computer.

The dinky speakers fitted to entry level DP's will not let you experience the true quality of a software piano, so you'll have to budget for the best headphones that you can afford. Sennheiser's HD 600's, or whatever is the current equivalent, are recording studio quality 'phones. Others can suggest less expensive alternatives.

Also, the P85 doesn't have the big audio connectors. Normal audio cables will connect directly to the 1212M, but you'll have to buy connectors which screw on to the audio cables and plug them into the little connectors on the P85. (Some audio cables have big connectors which can be removed, to reveal the little ones.) I don't think that there would be any problem with using the big connector/small connector combo, but if you don't get informed opinion in this thread, just start a new one.

Most software pianos can be loaded in "standalone mode". That means that you don't need a host application. Hosts are required when you want to record.

The P85, soundcard, and quality 'phones will probably shoot your budget, so a software piano would be extra.

Then you'll want to get a three-sensor action (for fast repetition) like the Yamaha GH/GHE/GH3 actions. But that almost certainly means you will have to spend more than $1,000 on the piano if you buy new.

Thank you all so much for the help.

Luckily, I already have Grado RS1 and Beyerdynamic DT770 headphones and amplifier for them, a Marantz SR5003 Reciever, Dantax Vision Two speakers, and several quality DAC's.

A quick question about the actions and sound before I leave:

You say that the YDP-160 uses the same action as P155 but that the P155 sounds better? Why would the cheaper piano sound better?

The YDP-160 is squarely in my budget since I don't mind getting it on ebay. Plus, I wouldn't have to buy a stand with it.

IMO, go out and try every DP in your price range. What makes a digital feel like an acoustic piano is very individual.

Also, as far as I know, only Casio make a three sensor action in the sub $1000 price range.

Rich

Doesnt Kawai have 2 models at roughly 1000$$??

Okay I just got back from guitar Center and had an interesting experience.

I couldn't find anything around $1000 that I thought was even remotely close to an acoustic. The action was extremely light on the models I tried (they didn't have a 160 though) and the notes wouldn't repeat fast enough for me to play the Beethoven C Minor Variations or Rhapsody in Blue properly. The action felt "plasticy" for lack of a better word.

I am now open to the idea of financing a bit more, but I REALLY don't want to go above $1600.

I played on a YDP-V240 that was much better than the YDP-223. It really was in a different league in both sound through the headphone jack and the action. The MSRP was around $1800 but they said they would give it to me for $1588. Is this is a good deal or am I getting yanked around? Also, am I correct in assuming that the YDP-160 has a BETTER action than this, despite being cheaper (GH is better than GHS)? That seems to make no sense, but if true I will have to seek one out to try. The V240 seemed rather acceptable though.

Also, what other alternatives should I look at in the $1500-600 range ($1600 being the absolute limit).

This is not unusual for Yamaha. Like other companies, they continually upgrade their models. New specs are sometimes introduced in lower priced ones. I don't follow their marketing closely enough to hazard a guess as to why, but it's normal for this company.

Yamaha is touting a new sampling technology - Dynamic Stereo Sampling - for the 155, plus an additional sampling layer - four instead of three. That should mean that, especially when listening thru 'phones, you may detect four different timbres. I haven't auditioned either model, do don't know what you may hear.

If possible, audition both the 155 and the 160. The 155 has twice the polyphony - 128 vs 64. Polyphony affects how many notes can be played simultaneously before note dropping occurs. Each stereo note uses two units of polyphony. I *think* that using the sustain pedal doubles the polyphony units used. So each stereo note, when sounded while the pedal is depressed, would use 4 units.

It's been years since I tried to hear note dropping, but I think that with Yamaha, it's more a matter of notes being sounded in mono when the polyphony limit is exceeded, rather than being dropped. Your playing level could make this a consideration.

It'd be a good idea to include using the sustain pedal, when auditioning. When I was using a P80 on wood floors, I had to chase the sustain pedal around the floor;-) The pedal can be more securely located, but IMO having it built in to the cabinet is preferable.

The GHE action, which is sometimes listed as just GH, is supposed to be quieter than the GHS (Graded Hammer Standard), as well as facilitating faster repetiion. I glossed over the repetition aspect, when reading your initial post.

If you liked the action on the YDP-V240 you are one of the lucky few who prefer the lower priced GHS key action. So if you liked the GHS on this piano you'd like the same keys on the YDP140 or even the P85.

I would have guessed that you'd go for the P155. But that is why everyone says that you have to try the pianos. Few would have recommended a GHS based Yamaha for a piano major.

About key actions, the lighter keys are easy to play. People who play non-piano sounds on synthesisers many times like un-weighted kays because they are faster than weighted keys. Pianists however normally prefer the weighted action. But if your main criteria is "fast" you'd want lighter keys.

If you liked the GHS key you might want to try a Roland FP4. I think Roland might have an arguably better sound than Yamaha and the Rolland "Alpha" key action is even more "GHS-Like" than the Yamaha GHS key. Meaning even lighter and maybe faster. Worth a try, and the FP4 is (I think) in your new budget.

TO be fair I didn't audition the P155 for very long as they had it up on a tilted shelf above my idea level and I couldn't sit down and try it properly, so I will try to re-evaluate it at a better shop where it's set up for playing.

The GHS was good, but it wasn't perfect. I'm going to take my time and audition as much as possible; a Willit music near me said they are getting a 161 in next week that I plan on trying.

Also to be clear, I prefer a heavier action. Everything I've tried is a bit light for my liking, but the 240 was much heavier than the 223 for example (which I really didn't like either in sound or action). The problem with note repetition to me is because the notes don't spring back up fast enough - I feel like they are almost "too light" and I can't get the same kind of control that I have on a nicely weighted acoustic grand. I'm used to practicing on a 9ft Steinway after all :p The keys on the 223 felt "plasticky" in much the same way that my old radio shack unweighted keyboard did. The 240 was significantly better, but I really want to try the 160 or 155 again since everyone is saying they feel heavier. To be honest I got a different impression, but it could have been that particular abused floor model and it wasn't ideal circumstances.

EDIT: Also, the 161 seems appealing because it seems to contain the same sound improvements as the 155 had (128 polyphony) with the form factor benefits such as built in pedals as the YDP series. It's just impossible to find one to demo right now!

computerpro3,

Based on your preference for a heavier action, have you tried the Casio PX130/PX330? I definitely prefer the heavier action of the Casio models to Yamaha models.

Rich

So you actually prefer Yamaha's entry-level GHS to GH(E)? I like GHS too (it's also on the P-85), but I thought the 223 had a much heavier action than GHS. I'm confused. Are you sure all those pianos at Guitar Center were labeled correctly?

I'm trying to avoid generalizations like that because what I got to play on were simply beat up store samples (one had broken pedals even) but I can be sure about this:

The 240 that I played on (whichever action it has) is significantly heavier than the 223 I tried (which was the beat up one with broken pedals). It also was much easier to repeat notes accurately on (this is not the same as lightness, it's hard to explain - it's just more solid and controlled).

I am trying to find a 161 locally but might have to wait a week. Also, thanks again for the help - this is really invaluable stuff. They don't even label things like which action it has at the stores.

I'm a fan of the GHS action as well...like Martin, I have a P-85 which I use both as a piano, and a controller.

I don't like a heavy action, either on an acoustic (my Steinway's action is rather light), or electronic piano, so the Yamaha GHS is perfect for my needs.

Snazzy

Not to be picky, but ... Dynamic Stereo Sampling is not new. It's been around for at least 5 years. Most of the current- and previous-generation YDP series and Clavinova CLP- and CVP-series have this.

Doesn't the P-155 have the same action as the YDP-161, i.e. GH? You could therefore try a 155 to get an idea about the 161 action...

OK, it might be time to slow down. Spend more time with each DP that you audition.

Yamaha markets the GHE action as being a cut about the 240's GHS action. Only your fingers can say whether it's better for you. Maybe try to see how far up you have to allow the key to spring, beore you can repeat a note.

I tried the P155 at Guitar Center too. Just go get a stand and have then take it off the wall for you. Either ask or just do it. They should be able to set it up for you.

The 161 is very new and I'm sure Yamaha is waiting until all the ydp160 are gone before they will ship the 161 out. The CP50 is coming out soon too.