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#2112579 - 07/04/13 03:13 AM Re: Achievement of the week - what got you excited? [Re: casinitaly]
sinophilia Offline

Gold Supporter until Sept. 05 2014


Registered: 06/26/12
Posts: 984
Loc: Italy
Thank you Ragdoll and Andy! It's available only as ebook here but it's fine with me smile
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Diana & Wally - Yamaha W110BW
Martha Argerich... is an incarnation of the artistic metaphor of the "eternal feminine" that draws us upward. (Sergio Sablich)

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#2112615 - 07/04/13 05:17 AM Re: Achievement of the week - what got you excited? [Re: Ragdoll]
King Norre Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/04/02
Posts: 59
Loc: Antwerp, Belgium
Other than getting my piano upstairs (3rd floor appartment without an elevator!) last tuesday my biggest excitement and maybe frustration is my "homework" I got from my teacher.
I'm struggling with this:

It's easy to play with only the left or only the right hand, but the two together ... crazy
Back to practice!
By the way, it's hard work but I like it. Great instrument thumb
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#2112616 - 07/04/13 05:18 AM Re: Achievement of the week - what got you excited? [Re: King Norre]
King Norre Offline
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Registered: 10/04/02
Posts: 59
Loc: Antwerp, Belgium
OK, you may start laughing now grin
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#2112625 - 07/04/13 05:55 AM Re: Achievement of the week - what got you excited? [Re: King Norre]
sinophilia Offline

Gold Supporter until Sept. 05 2014


Registered: 06/26/12
Posts: 984
Loc: Italy
Originally Posted By: King Norre
OK, you may start laughing now grin


I am laughing a bit... thinking how much I struggled with these kind of things last year! You will master this in no time smile
_________________________
Diana & Wally - Yamaha W110BW
Martha Argerich... is an incarnation of the artistic metaphor of the "eternal feminine" that draws us upward. (Sergio Sablich)

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#2112628 - 07/04/13 06:00 AM Re: Achievement of the week - what got you excited? [Re: sinophilia]
King Norre Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/04/02
Posts: 59
Loc: Antwerp, Belgium
lol ... it's funny, I've practiced it soo many times today and yesterday that I can actually play it (more or less) but somehow I have the feeling that I'm not really reading the notes, just some of them. The rest is just from muscle memory I think.
How can you read two staves at the same time and play?
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#2112634 - 07/04/13 06:11 AM Re: Achievement of the week - what got you excited? [Re: King Norre]
UKIkarus Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/05/13
Posts: 296
Loc: England, South East
Originally Posted By: King Norre
lol ... it's funny, I've practiced it soo many times today and yesterday that I can actually play it (more or less) but somehow I have the feeling that I'm not really reading the notes, just some of them. The rest is just from muscle memory I think.
How can you read two staves at the same time and play?


With practice smile I struggle with this too, but at the end of the day the sheets are mainly there as a guide... you learn each hand individually and piece it all together in chunks and yes you will inevitably memorize things.

As long as you memorize them correctly that's not a problem, it's when you go memorizing it wrong it becomes tricky as you have to re-learn something and break the habit laugh


Edited by UKIkarus (07/04/13 06:11 AM)
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#2112636 - 07/04/13 06:12 AM Re: Achievement of the week - what got you excited? [Re: UKIkarus]
King Norre Offline
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Registered: 10/04/02
Posts: 59
Loc: Antwerp, Belgium
Quote:
As long as you memorize them correctly that's not a problem, it's when you go memorizing it wrong it becomes tricky as you have to re-learn something and break the habit :P


Indeed blush blush blush
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#2112651 - 07/04/13 06:55 AM Re: Achievement of the week - what got you excited? [Re: King Norre]
earlofmar Online   content
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Registered: 03/21/13
Posts: 1584
Loc: Australia
Originally Posted By: King Norre

How can you read two staves at the same time and play?


Only with lots of practice can you read and play the two staves at the same time. Ultimately though the pieces you will soon be learning will be too complex to read and play simultaneously and therefore more and more you will be relying on you memory and your muscle memory. As a rule of thumb unless you are one of the very few gifted with good sight reading abilities your sight reading skills will fall behind your playing ability. We are often told to sight read two levels behind our technical level.
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#2112658 - 07/04/13 07:11 AM Re: Achievement of the week - what got you excited? [Re: King Norre]
Exalted Wombat Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/28/09
Posts: 1197
Loc: London UK
Originally Posted By: King Norre

How can you read two staves at the same time and play?


It comes with practice and experience. Some players can sight-read what may seem to us to be impossibly complex music note-perfect! In my musical world, many players have a technique of scanning the printed copy (maybe including chord symbols) and playing the MUSIC, rather than the literal notes. Piano parts for popular songs are generally best ignored anyway! And, on a rather more everyday level, every church musician needs to be able to sight-read a hymn tune pretty well.

It will come, if you have talent and application. A situation where you NEED to regularly perform new music is also useful. Enjoy and thrive!

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#2112668 - 07/04/13 07:38 AM Re: Achievement of the week - what got you excited? [Re: Exalted Wombat]
peterws Online   content
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/21/12
Posts: 3608
Loc: Northern England.
It`s worth noting that we all do the same with writing. We read aloud from letters. Letters become words, words become phrases, sentences . .Typists hear, and type. Pianists see and play. It`s got to be practice.
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#2112681 - 07/04/13 08:44 AM Re: Achievement of the week - what got you excited? [Re: sinophilia]
Ragdoll Offline
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Registered: 11/03/12
Posts: 672
Loc: Illinois
You're more than welcome Diane, FWIW here's one I have on my wish list at Amazon. There are so many books that are $10-20 each and only have one or two pieces I am interested in; I always buy the ones I can "see inside" (NOW... ahem!) before I purchase. This one looks to be several artists and all old standards (I love `em).
Simply Standards
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Ragdoll

Just be yourself, everyone else is already taken.


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#2112707 - 07/04/13 09:46 AM Re: Achievement of the week - what got you excited? [Re: King Norre]
aTallGuyNH Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/22/12
Posts: 508
Originally Posted By: King Norre
lol ... it's funny, I've practiced it soo many times today and yesterday that I can actually play it (more or less) but somehow I have the feeling that I'm not really reading the notes, just some of them. The rest is just from muscle memory I think.
How can you read two staves at the same time and play?

Two suggestions...

1)Invest some time studying music theory, particularly the different types of chords. When you learn how a C7, Gsus2, and Bm (etc.) are constructed, what they look like on the page and how they feel under your fingers, it makes it much easier to recognize chord patterns as the fundamental building blocks instead of trying to read each individual note.

Imagine trying to read and speak by processing each letter individually! That's why I find the beginner material to be challenging to deal with... plus it's so spread out on the page, it's much harder to recognize intervals at a glance.

2) Note recognition apps are super helpful for isolating that one skill from all the others that you are handling when actually playing. Eventually you'll be able to recognize notes throughout the grand staff, including ledger lines, intuitively instead of relying on mnemonics. I'm still not there entirely, but to the degree I've improved it has been due to rapid-fire and repeated note recognition drilling, not bench time playing. I don't have this setup myself, but the ideal would be one where the input is via MIDI so your response is tied to the actual keyboard instead of the name of the note or tapping an image on the screen. These apps exist, but I don't know particular names off the top of my head.
_________________________
"...when you do practice properly, it seems to take no time at all. Just do it right five times or so, and then stop." -- JimF

Working on: my aversion to practicing in front of my wife

1978 Vose & Sons spinet "Rufus"
1914 Huntington upright "Mabel"

XXIX-XXXII

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#2112717 - 07/04/13 10:08 AM Re: Achievement of the week - what got you excited? [Re: aTallGuyNH]
UKIkarus Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/05/13
Posts: 296
Loc: England, South East
Quote:

2) Note recognition apps are super helpful for isolating that one skill from all the others that you are handling when actually playing. Eventually you'll be able to recognize notes throughout the grand staff, including ledger lines, intuitively instead of relying on mnemonics. I'm still not there entirely, but to the degree I've improved it has been due to rapid-fire and repeated note recognition drilling, not bench time playing. I don't have this setup myself, but the ideal would be one where the input is via MIDI so your response is tied to the actual keyboard instead of the name of the note or tapping an image on the screen. These apps exist, but I don't know particular names off the top of my head.


To name a few, some costs apply for some (hope I break no rules, if links are not allowed please remove them or inform me and I will happily oblige)


For those with midi/digital setups, most of these if not all of them support midi interfacing

http://www.jalmus.net/-Jalmus-software-.html

http://noteableflashcards.com/index.htm

http://www.sightreadingpractice.com/cgi-...t=s&split=2 - Bit clunky but it works.

http://pianocheetah.com/tutorial/screenshots.html - OK I guess

www.sightreadingfactory.com - $30 for a year... but you get a few free


Please bare in mind, I have only had a brief look/trial of some of these I am not affiliated with any of them and am just posting for informational purposes.


Edited by UKIkarus (07/04/13 10:12 AM)
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#2112773 - 07/04/13 12:04 PM Re: Achievement of the week - what got you excited? [Re: UKIkarus]
aTallGuyNH Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/22/12
Posts: 508
Originally Posted By: UKIkarus
To name a few, some costs apply for some (hope I break no rules, if links are not allowed please remove them or inform me and I will happily oblige)


For those with midi/digital setups, most of these if not all of them support midi interfacing

http://www.jalmus.net/-Jalmus-software-.html

http://noteableflashcards.com/index.htm

http://www.sightreadingpractice.com/cgi-...t=s&split=2 - Bit clunky but it works.

http://pianocheetah.com/tutorial/screenshots.html - OK I guess

www.sightreadingfactory.com - $30 for a year... but you get a few free


Please bare in mind, I have only had a brief look/trial of some of these I am not affiliated with any of them and am just posting for informational purposes.

Thanks for posting these... no worries re: recommending products. If you were hawking your own that might raise some hackles if done repeatedly, but you're not doing that whatsoever.

Here is my favorite web based one, which has an iPhone version as well: http://www.musictheory.net/exercises


Edited by aTallGuyNH (07/04/13 12:06 PM)
Edit Reason: url messed up
_________________________
"...when you do practice properly, it seems to take no time at all. Just do it right five times or so, and then stop." -- JimF

Working on: my aversion to practicing in front of my wife

1978 Vose & Sons spinet "Rufus"
1914 Huntington upright "Mabel"

XXIX-XXXII

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#2112786 - 07/04/13 12:17 PM Re: Achievement of the week - what got you excited? [Re: aTallGuyNH]
UKIkarus Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/05/13
Posts: 296
Loc: England, South East
Originally Posted By: aTallGuyNH
Originally Posted By: UKIkarus
To name a few, some costs apply for some (hope I break no rules, if links are not allowed please remove them or inform me and I will happily oblige)


For those with midi/digital setups, most of these if not all of them support midi interfacing

http://www.jalmus.net/-Jalmus-software-.html

http://noteableflashcards.com/index.htm

http://www.sightreadingpractice.com/cgi-...t=s&split=2 - Bit clunky but it works.

http://pianocheetah.com/tutorial/screenshots.html - OK I guess

www.sightreadingfactory.com - $30 for a year... but you get a few free


Please bare in mind, I have only had a brief look/trial of some of these I am not affiliated with any of them and am just posting for informational purposes.

Thanks for posting these... no worries re: recommending products. If you were hawking your own that might raise some hackles if done repeatedly, but you're not doing that whatsoever.

Here is my favorite web based one, which has an iPhone version as well: http://www.musictheory.net/exercises


Thanks for the site, I shall use that when I am sitting at the PC as I often have my synth and Wall mounted TV plugged into my laptop right within arms length smile

I also use an Android app called "MusicTutor SightRead" which teaches/challenges (while being fully customizable) notes/key signatures/reading/writing/accidentals and chords smile great for when you are out and about or at lunch laugh
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#2112930 - 07/04/13 05:46 PM Re: Achievement of the week - what got you excited? [Re: casinitaly]
casinitaly Online   blank


Gold Supporter until March 1 2014


Registered: 03/01/10
Posts: 5022
Loc: Italy
I can't keep up!!!

I have been popping in to read what's up but no time to do my usual replies.
It does sound like everyone is having a good time and I'm always really interested in seeing folks who are at different levels talk about what is challenging for them.

I find I'm in an interesting position - I see KingN's page and remember when that sort of piece was a challenge too! I read Torquenale's post about Schumann and want to dash over to see if the Horseman is in my book. Maybe I won't play it, maybe I will - but I'll read through it and see what I think. Wisebuff at piano-summer camp - how cool is that!!! Chris's story about the 18 yr old listening, and the mum on the street listening...ah, the power of Chopin!

(ok, I skipped pretty much all the stuff on Apps, as I don't use them smile )

My AOTW is that I've been consistently playing well for my EPP pieces. Yesterday I was playing and managed to go though one piece - correctly - at an absurdly fast pace and I burst out laughing at the end. I've started working on a new Pachelbel piece - called Fughetta (Foo-get-ta) which is simple, but very pleasant. It is the only piece I've ever seen of his apart from the Canon in D.
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XVIII-XXXIV
Everything's too hard until you make it easy. Follow your teacher's instructions and practice wisely/much, and you'll soon wonder how you ever found it hard ;)-BobPickle
Performance anxiety: make it part of your daily routine and deal with it...Cope! zrtf90

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#2113025 - 07/04/13 11:13 PM Re: Achievement of the week - what got you excited? [Re: casinitaly]
PaperClip Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/21/09
Posts: 522
Loc: Amsterdam, Holland
Heh, can't keep up this thread a long time ago.

Ok, I'm officially a cook now. smile In september my next study year begins, trying to become a chef eventually.

The last few weeks I thought about how to fit in all the school, work, hobbies, piano, home, familie, sports, vacation, etc and how to solve the money equation as a result of that.

My aotw is that I found piece in accepting 1 hour piano each day. I wish I could play more, but time is against me. If I play more, I should give up other things. If I play less, I learn more slowly and have less fun and relaxation. Until now I never accepted the 1 hour piano each day, because two hours seems always to me as double as fun.

I also decided to learn my languages english, german, french, spanish and italian. Just 1 hour each day too. For fun and relaxation. My english could be better. German I started reading a few years ago. In the kitchen I have to know french words. I like to know the italian words written at the music sheets and the words of Italian food and drinks. The same for spanish. So at an easy and relaxed way I'll shuffle through those languages at 1 hour each day.

And of course, I will have to study one hour each day for school: how to be a better cook.

Now that's already 3 hours a day! Plus a ten hour job. Because the physical work in the kitchen and 3 hours study, I need to be fit. So I need to sport also. Hmm, tricky. I hope it fits with the rest, like eating.

I will try this for a year and see how it goes. Though I'm very excited.
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Playing since May 02 2009

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#2113033 - 07/04/13 11:53 PM Re: Achievement of the week - what got you excited? [Re: King Norre]
PaperClip Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/21/09
Posts: 522
Loc: Amsterdam, Holland
Originally Posted By: King Norre
Other than getting my piano upstairs (3rd floor appartment without an elevator!) last tuesday


Heh, that sounds if you pushed up the piano through the stairway. Didn't you have a truck with an extendable arm/lift delivering it, shoving it through your window in less than five minutes? Or did you use rope and block?
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Playing since May 02 2009

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#2113054 - 07/05/13 12:57 AM Re: Achievement of the week - what got you excited? [Re: PaperClip]
peterws Online   content
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/21/12
Posts: 3608
Loc: Northern England.
If you get by on 4 hours sleep, you`ll be fine . . . yawn
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"I'm playing all the right notes but not necessarily in the right order." Eric Morecambe

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#2113065 - 07/05/13 02:14 AM Re: Achievement of the week - what got you excited? [Re: casinitaly]
casinitaly Online   blank


Gold Supporter until March 1 2014


Registered: 03/01/10
Posts: 5022
Loc: Italy
Paperclip Chris - that's great news! You have some serious study time in front of you - but it is obvious that you are excited about it! It takes organization to have a crazy schedule, and you are off to a good start with your planning.
_________________________
XVIII-XXXIV
Everything's too hard until you make it easy. Follow your teacher's instructions and practice wisely/much, and you'll soon wonder how you ever found it hard ;)-BobPickle
Performance anxiety: make it part of your daily routine and deal with it...Cope! zrtf90

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#2113094 - 07/05/13 05:08 AM Re: Achievement of the week - what got you excited? [Re: casinitaly]
King Norre Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/04/02
Posts: 59
Loc: Antwerp, Belgium
Quote:
Heh, that sounds if you pushed up the piano through the stairway. Didn't you have a truck with an extendable arm/lift delivering it, shoving it through your window in less than five minutes? Or did you use rope and block?

Well, I bought a DP (Kawai CA65) so it wasn't as heavy as a real upright piano, but still it was heavy enough to start sweatin' when we carried it up the stairs grin
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#2113650 - 07/06/13 09:09 AM Re: Achievement of the week - what got you excited? [Re: King Norre]
King Norre Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/04/02
Posts: 59
Loc: Antwerp, Belgium
Question: I Always start my practice with a lesson that I know but somehow I can't get it right the first time. I have to play it a couple of times before I can play it like I want it. It's almost as if I have to warm up before I can play. Is that normal or am I getting old? crazy
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#2113668 - 07/06/13 09:57 AM Re: Achievement of the week - what got you excited? [Re: casinitaly]
Exalted Wombat Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/28/09
Posts: 1197
Loc: London UK
What happens if you warm up on something else?

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#2113682 - 07/06/13 10:36 AM Re: Achievement of the week - what got you excited? [Re: Exalted Wombat]
King Norre Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/04/02
Posts: 59
Loc: Antwerp, Belgium
What do you mean? Playing scales or something else maybe?
Haven't tried that to be honest.
I'll let you know tomorrow wink
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#2113684 - 07/06/13 10:46 AM Re: Achievement of the week - what got you excited? [Re: King Norre]
aTallGuyNH Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/22/12
Posts: 508
Originally Posted By: King Norre
Question: I Always start my practice with a lesson that I know but somehow I can't get it right the first time. I have to play it a couple of times before I can play it like I want it. It's almost as if I have to warm up before I can play. Is that normal or am I getting old? crazy

Only a couple times? Sounds more like an AOTW than a problem! cool
_________________________
"...when you do practice properly, it seems to take no time at all. Just do it right five times or so, and then stop." -- JimF

Working on: my aversion to practicing in front of my wife

1978 Vose & Sons spinet "Rufus"
1914 Huntington upright "Mabel"

XXIX-XXXII

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#2113686 - 07/06/13 10:55 AM Re: Achievement of the week - what got you excited? [Re: aTallGuyNH]
King Norre Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/04/02
Posts: 59
Loc: Antwerp, Belgium
What is an AOTW? blush blush blush
I guess I wanted to know if warming up before practice is something usefull or just a waist of time.
_________________________
Be yourself - no more, no less.
My Piano Links Page
My Piano Blog

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#2113691 - 07/06/13 11:03 AM Re: Achievement of the week - what got you excited? [Re: King Norre]
aTallGuyNH Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/22/12
Posts: 508
Originally Posted By: King Norre
What is an AOTW? blush blush blush
I guess I wanted to know if warming up before practice is something usefull or just a waist of time.

AOTW = Achievement Of The Week!

I don't warm up myself, but that's mostly because I'm impatient and undisciplined. I think many/most teachers and books recommend warming up with some scales or other exercises.

Concert pianists certainly warm up, although with real pieces -- from what I've seen in documentaries. They're not going out there stone cold and playing at a world class level.
_________________________
"...when you do practice properly, it seems to take no time at all. Just do it right five times or so, and then stop." -- JimF

Working on: my aversion to practicing in front of my wife

1978 Vose & Sons spinet "Rufus"
1914 Huntington upright "Mabel"

XXIX-XXXII

Top
#2113728 - 07/06/13 12:26 PM Re: Achievement of the week - what got you excited? [Re: King Norre]
Exalted Wombat Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/28/09
Posts: 1197
Loc: London UK
Originally Posted By: King Norre
What is an AOTW?

The title of this message may give you a clue!

Quote:

I guess I wanted to know if warming up before practice is something usefull or just a waist of time.

Essential for some people. Beneficial for many. There are no one-rule-fits-everyone. Except "practice more" and "practice at a speed at which you can get it RIGHT!"

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#2113853 - 07/06/13 04:54 PM Re: Achievement of the week - what got you excited? [Re: Exalted Wombat]
Sand Tiger Online   content
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/25/12
Posts: 1045
Loc: Southern California
It is one week until the European Piano Party. Bon voyage for those that are making the trip to Brussels.

King Norre, yes that is normal about not being able to play it correctly first thing. For most people, the feeling gets worse when a person tries to record, or perform live.

Paperclip, 10 hours of work, plus three hours committed to learning. Wow, I am impressed, though tired just reading that. Good luck with all the endeavors and congratulations on becoming a cook.

Week 69: I spend some time watching some Youtube tutorials from the young woman with the red hair and Russian accent. Three tips I am working on: keep my elbows higher, use more of my arms, and press through the keys as if they were gel. I make good progress on my cover of A Thousand Years. I write some material for one of my originals, which now has a working title of Avenue E.

The 50 song challenge is off and running. I am mostly a watcher this year. I am reading some lyrics and sketching out some piano music at times. It is amazing how much faster I am at that task, than I was last year. Not that my music is anything amazing, but it is a good creative exercise. There is a lot to be said for competence. I may or may not share or post any of my exercises. The curious can read and listen to the other songs without registering. For those that like singer songwriter material or want to do the exercise of writing music to other people's lyrics, here is the link:
http://fiftyninety.fawmers.org/songlist
There are beginners to professionals participating. Some are posting demos, some lyrics only, a few are doing instrumentals. It is not too late to participate. Again, my participation in 50/90 is what jump started me into writing original music.

Have a good week everyone. Cheers.
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#2113879 - 07/06/13 06:08 PM Re: Achievement of the week - what got you excited? [Re: casinitaly]
EdwardianPiano Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/29/11
Posts: 752
Loc: Liverpool, England
My Cecil Piano and I are getting acquainted again, having not practised much since May as had had a bereavement and a change of work ( 12 hour shifts). I might have a go at King Norre's sheet music. I have slipped a bit at whatever rubbish level I was at in April to a lower rubbish level! My teacher is away for the summer but I've got plenty to work on. Also, I am rather lazy and been sitting in the Sun ( which doesn't come out much in Britain these days...) and gardening.
_________________________
"Music is the one incorporeal entrance into the higher world of knowledge which comprehends mankind but which mankind cannot comprehend."

"He who divines the secret of my music is delivered from the misery that haunts the world."


Ludwig Van Beethoven

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