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Hi all

I have just started to learn the piano (via Alfred book) and wondered if anyone had any advice for me...

Background: I was given an old Casio keyboard (LK70) but I felt having no touch response (soft -> loud) was an issue. I’ve not played an acoustic or real digital piano before so the idea of testing DPs out at a store was too intimidating for me – I wouldn’t know what to look\listen for and besides I couldn’t play anything to test it. I’ve only just learnt what middle C is. After reading threads here I purchased the px-330. I wanted something with realistic sound and action and the px330 seemed to tick these boxes. The cost was the most I wanted to spend (got it on 1 year interest free) I could have gone for the px-130 however I like the idea of the LCD screen, the extra sounds and the price wasn’t that much different.

Hardware: After I unpacked the DP (blue tape holding keys down, no keys stuck) and powered it up I thought it sounded wonderful through the speakers. Really great sounds, even the GM sounds were so much better than the old keyboard I started with. Very happy.

However I went to practice last night using headphones and some things struck me and would like your advice:

1. I increased the settings to [+1] Brilliance and down to [1] key response (lighter touch I think) after reading threads here. Are there any other changes recommended on the PX330?

2. I find it difficult to play things ‘loudly’. This is kind of an odd thing to say because there is a volume button that I can crank up – but should I do this? I have already set it to half power. I’m assuming it is due to not experiencing weighted keys before.

3. I find my lower notes\chords are louder than my melody. I’m left handed and thought it may be related? Or do lower notes just 'sound' louder?

4. I find the thump of the key hitting the hammer noticeable when using my headphones, but not when on speaker. It’s almost like the low thump tone penetrates the music.

5. I play on the second piano setting, called classic rather than modern I think, for my musical attempts. Is this what others use? I can’t tell much difference between the two.

6. I’m struggling to play the notes in a slur (is that the correct term) each note sounds independent, should it sound joined up (without using the pedal)? How do you do this?

Sorry if I’m asking dumb questions, I’m obviously a noob. :0)

Giles

Gilest, regarding your question #6: Connecting the notes is a learned technique called legato. You have to hold the first key down until the next key is pressed. This may require practice of fingering.

Are you looking for a teacher?

Welcome to Piano World, Giles! I hope you'll enjoy your new piano and come a long way as a pianist!
Let's run through your questions then, shall we?


1) Just play around with the settings and see what you like, there really is no such thing as an ideal setting. Some people prefer a light touch, other prefer a heavy touch.

2) You can play "loudly" (forte) by depressing the keys faster, and thus harder. Don't use the volume button for this, because the difference between piano and forte is much more than just the volume. The whole tone is altered by your touch.
I think you just have to get used to weighted keys and a velocity sensitive keyboard, just keep practising and you should get the hang of it soon!

3) No, this is a common problem many beginners (me included) struggle with. It's generally a lot harder to play softly in the bass registers. Good luck!

4) I can't say much about this since I'm not familiar with your particular model of DP, but I know what you mean since I have the same thing on my own Roland DP. I guess you'll just have to learn to live with it, personally I don't find it very bothersome, and when I'm focused on my music I really don't notice it at all.

5) Again, I'm not familiar with your particular piano, but if you think the 2nd piano sound sounds better, just use that one!

6) You should play the notes right after each other without a pause between them, but they shouldn't blend together. Hopefully someone else can explain this better, than me. I don't really know of any specific ways to practise this, sorry.

A slur can be interpreted as giving you a couple of different clues about the music.

First, it usually means that the notes under the slur are to be played legato. For legato, the notes should be overlapping. To learn this, hold down one key, the press the next key. As the second key sounds release the first. Think of a walking motion, where one foot touches down before the other one is lifted. Don't rely on the damper pedal unless you absolutely have to, and even then it is best to add the pedal after you have got the notes as smooth and connected as you possibly can. Eventually you get to a point where the notes sound like they are gliding into each other with a very minimal overlap, but the overlap is still there for legato.

(Note: Pianosaurus Rex is describing détaché, which is not legato. Notes played détaché would not be under a slur, although just because notes are not under a slur does not mean that they have to be played détaché. It's mostly how you interpret the music that determines if you play a particular phrase this way.)

Second, slurs can also indicate the phrasing of the music. Think of how a singer would sing the music. The singer might start softly, increase their volume to a climax and then let it die away. The best way to learn to actually do this is to actually sing the music, then try to play it with the same feeling. It's easier to start to learn this with actual songs, but you need to learn to do it with pieces without words also.

You will sometimes see staccato marks under a slur. This is portato, which means the notes are held for about 3/4 of their length. It's usually borrowed from string instrument notation.

Rich

Thank you for you words of advice.

It sounds like I just need to keep practicing on the weighted keyboard. It is good to know that I am not alone with the heavy bass sound or physical key sound when using headphones. ... more practice, more practice.

I guess it was a just a little disappointing that moving to a better instrument highlighted my playing faults. On the simple non-velocity sensitive keyboard it all sounded smooth and even - but now I realise that I'm heavy with one hand, light with the other and can't join the notes up (legato).

Should I do Hannon to try to strengthen and equalise my 'finger power'? Is there anything else you would recommend?

Thanks again for your help, my encouragement is you guys and some of the clips on youtube - I wish I could play like them - even the kids are so talented.

Giles

Hey Gilest!

I can say that I'm exactly at your place, only a little ahead perhaps. I had a PSR240 ( A very old semi weighted spring keyboard) and upgraded to PX330 recently.

Now for what I've felt.
1. Brilliance in PX330 makes the louder notes sound more clinky! I'm sure you understand what I mean! You can crank it up to +3 and hit a note as fast as possible.. Like middle C or C4. You'll notice a distinct clink! Reducing brilliance reduces this clinky sound. As Rex(Amazing avatar name btw ) said its a personal choice I would say. Play the same note at different velocity levels and different brilliance levels and figure out what you like. I would advice you to stick to +2 touch though! Since its closer to a GP. But again its your choice!

2. I play the piano at max volume always. I've a large room and I like my music loud anyways. But as mentioned above loud != Fortissmo. The timbre of the tone produced from the piano changes for pp, mp, mf and ff. So for ff you'll hear a clinky sound, whereas you hear a soft piano tone for the others. I dont know if you already know this, but its the velocity that matters, not the pressure. Generally people (including me) who move from non-weighted keyboards to normal tend to hit keys very hard to overcompensate.

3. Oh!! thats a nightmare that we all face! Trust me, getting LH to go smoother and softer than RH is every newby's terror! Its actually quite hard and requires a lot of practice. Try playing Alfred's songs by exaggerating the hands, playing RH on ff and LH on pp. Slowly your hands will get adjusted to the sounds you hear. Again its the timber the counts. Listen for the timber to figure out at what velocity level you are playing, not just the volume.

4. I havent used headphones so far. I'll try it out and let you know if the same is happening on my piece.

5. Shh!! Dont let the noob secret out! .. Ya even I dont see a difference. Except maybe modern has a little more clinky sound (i'm sorry, clinky is all I can come up with). I use modern though.

6. Even I felt that its very hard to connect on the PX330. Can someone else using PX330, whos a pro comment on this. I just take a shortcut most of the time and pedal through!

Hope your having a lot of fun with the PX330. Cant wait to hear more. And oh! Welcome to PW ..

Cheers
Karthik

Well, you could do Hanon, but chances are it's a tad too advanced.
Personally I only use the first exercises as a finger warm up sometimes, and there's a good explanation of all the scales at the end of part II, other than that I never use it. I might do so at some other time, but right now I have more important stuff to focus on.

Feel free to give it a try though, it's available for free on IMSLP.

http://imslp.org/wiki/The_Virtuoso_Pianist_%28Hanon,_Charles-Louis%29

Scales would be a good thing to work on. Junior Hanon if you find yourself a bit intimidated by all the notes and the length of Hanon. (Of course, Hanon is not really that complex or difficult for the first 20 or so exercises.) Some people enjoy Hanon and some do not.

Also, just learning to listen and control the volume of each hand. Try playing pieces with your left hand not making any noise, or barely making any noise. Also try to learn some piece with the melody in the left hand.

Rich

to answer some questions:

1. The brilliance refers to the “sharpness and loudness of a string.. Imagine “honkey tonk’ pianos, they have a very loud brilliant almost “tinnish” sound ...Piano players (including myself) varnish their hammers to make the sound more brilliant sometimes to a tragic noise but that’s a long story and I corrected it .(lol).....For classical pieces you’d not want a high brilliant setting.. As a reference play a older piano .They usually have a softer warm sound. Wurlitzer’s usually have a very brilliant sound. Steinway's have a very solid, authoritative and slightly warm sound. There may be settings on your digital that also mimic those pianos.

2. You may have to crank up all the volumes , then play softly by a light touch and loudly by a heavy touch to get the “feel” of the potential volumes. Then adjust the volume for that reference .
The volume I assume your referring to is the overall volume.( main? perhaps) for bass and treble . There may be a few different volumes on you dig . piano. That may also be why the bass keys- chords are louder. You might have the lower bass turned louder. ( read the manual).

3. as above ; Plus the bass of all piano are meant to be percussive. Check your volumes (all of them).
and .......if it isn’t the above it’s to your advantage that your left handed, you may find it easier to control the weight of your touch in your dominant hand ,with practice,............. somewhere down the road in your playing. ( I wouldn't be too concerned with that right from the start though.)

4. well , actually the key doesn’t hit the hammer, it hits the whippin then propels the hammer to the strings;..... (I assume that sound it is a mimic of the hammers hitting the strings in a acoustic) a true detailed mimicry of an acoustic and likely sounds very authentic and classic if you were to record the digital piano directly to a synthesizer or a computer. This again is something you should find in your manual.

5. Find out if those settings refer to the piece that will be played , thus changing some nuance of the chord sound ( modern harmony or classic) or to a feel of the keys- etc particular to Casio. ( in other words...... I don’t know)

6. Play a slur in tempo smoothly, as if it were a broken chord (in succession), If the piece calls for a pedal, use it. Usually a slur won’t sound very well if it isn’t a broken chord when played with a pedal.

Again congrats on your digital piano,- can’t wait to get one of those.

I moved from an old non-weighted, non touch sensitive keyboard to a Casio PX-110, which has weighted, touch sensitive keys. Initially I also found it hard to play loud. In fact I found it hard to play at all! But now I think the weighted keys are brilliant and I'm glad I upgraded when I did and didn't leave it any longer.

I'm right handed and find the right hand tends to sound louder than the left hand. I also found that I wasn't pressing keys as simultaneously as I had believed on the old keyboard. Some pieces I thought I played reasonably well sounded terrible on the Casio, but I have now improved and it sounds OK again.

I use Sennheiser HD565 Ovation headphones with the Casio (when it is not on speakers) and they sound awesome.

Stick with your Casio. It will show up faults in your playing initially, but you will soon improve!

Hi all, forgive me for digging up my own thread from page 3 - I'm not sure it is considered good form - however I just wanted to give an update.

After just under 2 weeks of getting the DP I seem to be overcoming some of the issues I had. Like PhilzPiano said the Casio highlighted my mistakes but my ability to play louder & softer has increased with time and practice (1hr/day). I wouldn't say I can play 'f' easily or 'ff' at all but I certainly have a bit more control.

I have also changed my opinions on the sound and now prefer the 'brighter\crisper' modern grand sound. And I can even hear a difference between the voices too.

I don't hear the thump any more, I'm not sure why, perhaps I have adapted to it even though I only get to play with headphones. Kartik, I wish I could play like you on speaker to 'feel' the music, but I can only practice after my baby is in bed - so headphones is a must.

I still struggle a bit with playing legato on some pieces, but overall the last 2 weeks have made a huge difference - hopefully with lots more improvement to come (as it's needed).

I have just reached a stage in the Alfred book where it expands to describe the full scale of C and G, so I will try to practice these a little with the thumb tuck under, etc.

I do have another query though... when I use the pedal (Casio switch thing) it always sounds very 'cut off' when released. Do I hold the keys down loger than the pedal or the other way round? I can't make it sound 'flowing' in a piece.

Thank you all for your replies. Rather like practising a song, sometimes things just fall in to place without me noticing and I am getting far more enjoyment out of playing since upgrading to the DP.

Many thanks
Giles