Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 2 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

SEARCH
the Forums & Piano World

This custom search works much better than the built in one and allows searching older posts.
(ad) Pianoteq
Latest Pianoteq add-on instrument: U4 upright piano
(ad) Pearl River
Pearl River Pianos
(ad) P B Guide
Acoustic & Digital Piano Guide
PianoSupplies.com (150)
Piano Accessories Music Related Gifts Piano Tuning Equipment Piano Moving Equipment
We now offer Gift Certificates in our online store!
(ad) Estonia Piano
Estonia Piano
Quick Links to Useful Stuff
Our Classified Ads
Find Piano Professionals-

*Piano Dealers - Piano Stores
*Piano Tuners
*Piano Teachers
*Piano Movers
*Piano Restorations
*Piano Manufacturers
*Organs

Quick Links:
*Advertise On Piano World
*Free Piano Newsletter
*Online Piano Recitals
*Piano Recitals Index
*Piano Accessories
* Buying a Piano
*Buying A Acoustic Piano
*Buying a Digital Piano
*Pianos for Sale
*Sell Your Piano
*How Old is My Piano?
*Piano Books
*Piano Art, Pictures, & Posters
*Directory/Site Map
*Contest
*Links
*Virtual Piano
*Music Word Search
*Piano Screen Saver
*Piano Videos
*Virtual Piano Chords
Topic Options
#221480 - 11/22/08 10:18 PM Steinway Essex baby grand -- Is it worth the money?
Willie Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 11/22/08
Posts: 2
I am considering buying a Steinway Essex baby grand (EGP-161N) with the iPod music player for $22,000 ($15,000 for the piano & $7,000 for the music player). The keys felt a little heavy and hard to push when compared to the Steinway New York model. This Essex model is beautiful and would go well in our house. We would use it for my son to learn to play the piano, and for the music player so we could have piano music in the house. Is the Essex worth the money, or is there a better Steinway model or other brand for that price?

Top
(ads 568) Hailun Pianos

piano accessories music gifts tuning and moving equipment
#221481 - 11/22/08 10:31 PM Re: Steinway Essex baby grand -- Is it worth the money?
Deerwood Dad Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/04/07
Posts: 478
Loc: Minneapolis
Not sure about the price of the iPod, but the price on this 5'3.5" piano is (in my humble opinion) too high. You should be able to purchase an RX-1 Kawai (the quality equivalent of the Boston line) for that price or better, and various other similar quality pianos of the same or similar size. There's nothing wrong with Essex pianos, but you pay dearly for the Steinway affiliation, and there are therefore better values to be had in the marketplace. In any market (and especially in this sluggish market), you can afford to be VERY patient. You will undoubtedly find many beautiful pianos to choose from within your apparent budget. Best of luck, and keep us all posted! \:\)
_________________________
Mason & Hamlin A (2006); Yamaha P140

Top
#221482 - 11/23/08 02:11 AM Re: Steinway Essex baby grand -- Is it worth the money?
TheCaz Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/12/08
Posts: 224
Loc: Simi Valley, CA
Hi Willie,

That is a lot to pay for an Essex, which is a nice piano, but hardly exceptional. The RX-1 by Kawai is a better piano for $15K, along with the 162 from Brodmann, for starters.

Since your son is a beginner, however, I would recommend either a Hailun 161 or a Steck G62, which both compare to the Essex, but are priced in the $8K range, so that you can get a piano AND a player for $15K. Both of these pianos look great, and are good to learn on for a beginner. Furthermore, the $7K that you save versus the Essex and player will be a nice chunk of change if invested to help pay for your sons college education.

As for the action on an Essex (or an RX-1, Brodmann, Hailun or Steck) versus a NY Steinway, there is absolutely no comparison. There's a reason why the Steinway S is $40K, and a big chunk of it is related to the action.

Have fun on your search. Like Deerwood Dad said, "you can afford to be VERY patient ..."

Top
#221483 - 11/23/08 03:42 AM Re: Steinway Essex baby grand -- Is it worth the money?
FogVilleLad Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/02/05
Posts: 4680
Loc: San Francisco
In California you can get an RX-2 for $15k. Almost all pianos are essentially the same width. A 5'10" Kawai will sound much better that that Essex.

BTW the first price you hear is almost never the price at which the piano can be bought.

Top
#221484 - 11/23/08 07:46 AM Re: Steinway Essex baby grand -- Is it worth the money?
Starting Over Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/07/06
Posts: 1290
Loc: Toronto
 Quote:
Originally posted by FogVilleLad:
BTW the first price you hear is almost never the price at which the piano can be bought. [/b]
Very true and well worth remembering.
_________________________
Buy some good stock and hold it till it goes up, then sell it. If it don't go up, don't buy it.
Will Rogers


Top
#221485 - 11/23/08 01:25 PM Re: Steinway Essex baby grand -- Is it worth the money?
Willie Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 11/22/08
Posts: 2
Thanks for your comments. Now, I'm thinking about a Kawai RX-2 (with the Millennium III Action) or an Estonia 168, versus the Essex EGP-173C. Any thoughts?

Top
#221486 - 11/23/08 03:56 PM Re: Steinway Essex baby grand -- Is it worth the money?
Sir Lurksalot Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/19/04
Posts: 1236
If you took a poll, the results would be:
Estonia 168 > RX-2 > Essex.
Not everyone would agree, but that order is also consistent with Larry Fine's ratings. However you should also expect to pay more for the Estonia than the other two.

Top
#221487 - 11/23/08 04:02 PM Re: Steinway Essex baby grand -- Is it worth the money?
Pianomadam Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/18/07
Posts: 416
Loc: Southern United States
I would encourage you to do a search for "Essex" on this forum. Beware that this forum is historically an anti-Steinway-designed pianos (Steinway, Boston, and Essex) site, which flies in the face of what music school after music school is selecting for their students. You are in a good position in that you are considering very fine pianos in the mix so good luck with the decision.

Ok, time to pop up a big bowl of popcorn and watch the fireworks...
_________________________
PianoMadam

Family of Steinway-Designed Pianos (Steinway & Sons, Boston, Essex) Dealer

Top
#221488 - 11/23/08 07:07 PM Re: Steinway Essex baby grand -- Is it worth the money?
ftp Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/10/05
Posts: 2365
Loc: Philadelphia
 Quote:
Originally posted by Pianomadam:
I would encourage you to do a search for "Essex" on this forum. Beware that this forum is historically an anti-Steinway-designed pianos site, which flies in the face of what music school after music school is seledcting for their students. You are in a good position in that you are considering very fine pianos in the mix so good luck with the decision.

Ok, time to pop up a big bowl of popcorn and watch the fireworks... [/b]
PianoMadam

I didn't realize that music schools were selecting Essex pianos. Interesting. Where is this happening?

Top
#221489 - 11/23/08 07:13 PM Re: Steinway Essex baby grand -- Is it worth the money?
Horowitzian Offline
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/18/08
Posts: 8453
 Quote:
Originally posted by Pianomadam:
I would encourage you to do a search for "Essex" on this forum. Beware that this forum is historically an anti-Steinway-designed pianos site, which flies in the face of what music school after music school is seledcting for their students. You are in a good position in that you are considering very fine pianos in the mix so good luck with the decision.

Ok, time to pop up a big bowl of popcorn and watch the fireworks... [/b]
When did schools start choosing Essex? I thought it was mostly Boston and Steinway.
_________________________
Close only counts in horseshoes, hand grenades, and nuclear weapons.

Top
#221490 - 11/23/08 07:22 PM Re: Steinway Essex baby grand -- Is it worth the money?
Horowitzian Offline
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/18/08
Posts: 8453
 Quote:
Originally posted by Willie:
I am considering buying a Steinway Essex baby grand (EGP-161N) with the iPod music player for $22,000 ($15,000 for the piano & $7,000 for the music player). The keys felt a little heavy and hard to push when compared to the Steinway New York model. This Essex model is beautiful and would go well in our house. We would use it for my son to learn to play the piano, and for the music player so we could have piano music in the house. Is the Essex worth the money, or is there a better Steinway model or other brand for that price? [/b]
Boston or comparable Kawai would be better, IMHO. Of course, a Steinway is best if you've got the funds. :p ;\) Get a B. You'll never regret it. \:D

Back to serious, though, I'd take a Kawai RX- series piano or a Boston over the Essex. The best reason to go for a Boston is the Steinway trade-up advantage, if you ultimately want a Steinway. And if you don't, an RX- series piano will be excellent.
_________________________
Close only counts in horseshoes, hand grenades, and nuclear weapons.

Top
#221491 - 11/23/08 08:43 PM Re: Steinway Essex baby grand -- Is it worth the money?
carey Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/13/05
Posts: 6033
Loc: Phoenix, Arizona
Willie -

Let me make sure I understand. No one in your family currently plays the piano - but your son is going to start taking lessons - and on top of that you'd like to have piano music in your house (i.e. the music player for $7,000).

If the IPod music player weren't in the picture - I'd recommend that you buy a nice looking upright for your son and see how he does with his lessons BEFORE you invest in a grand piano. BUT - if you really want to have both the grand and the music player, I'd recommend that you find something other than an Essex (a Hailun,for example, is of comparable quality and much more affordable). Don't worry about the "touch." Many folks on this forum may disagree with me, but a piano's action is not a major issue for a beginner - and the Ipod music player certainly isn't going to care!! I'd also recommend that you hold off on the RX-2 or the Estonia until your son's musical development justifies it. Of course, if money really isn't an issue - and you are viewing this purchase as an "investment," then I would encourage you to do whatever feels good - and more power to you !!

Good luck.
_________________________
YouTube channel - http://www.youtube.com/user/pianophilo

Top
#221492 - 11/24/08 10:06 PM Re: Steinway Essex baby grand -- Is it worth the money?
buranto Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/26/06
Posts: 78
Loc: Gainesville, GA - Northeast Ge...
Since you are considering a player piano, you should also stop by your local Yamaha dealer for a Disklavier Mark IV demonstration.
_________________________
Brant Barron

Lancaster Piano Company
Gainesville, GA

Established 1949

www.LancasterPiano.com

Top
#221493 - 11/25/08 09:52 AM Re: Steinway Essex baby grand -- Is it worth the money?
TheCaz Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/12/08
Posts: 224
Loc: Simi Valley, CA
Hi Willie,

If you're looking at an Estonia or RX-2, then I'd also toss a Disklavier into the equation, but I'd also really recommend that you think about Carey's comment first, and even add another consideration.

A beginner, which I am, can actually be discouraged on a great piano with a more responsive action. I practice on an Estonia 168 and Steinway M and O regularly. I find them much harder to play on than the Albert Weber 48 that I have at home, which is a very nice upright, but clearly not a 168 or an M.

The less responsive keyboard on my A Weber is far friendlier to my fingers, which are just learning to make the moves that I need to know to play properly. It will take me a few YEARS before I'm ready to take advantage of the better action on a great upright.

My advice is to do your son a favor and buy a piano that will be friendlier for him to learn on, such as the Essex or a Hailun, and then let him choose the great piano he enjoys best when he's ready to take it to the next step several years down the road.

Top
#221494 - 11/25/08 10:59 AM Re: Steinway Essex baby grand -- Is it worth the money?
turandot Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/27/07
Posts: 7089
Loc: torrance, CA
 Quote:
A beginner, which I am, can actually be discouraged on a great piano with a more responsive action. I practice on an Estonia 168 and Steinway M and O regularly. I find them much harder to play on than the Albert Weber 48 that I have at home, which is a very nice upright, but clearly not a 168 or an M.

The less responsive keyboard on my A Weber is far friendlier to my fingers, which are just learning to make the moves that I need to know to play properly. It will take me a few YEARS before I'm ready to take advantage of the better action on a great upright.

I'm not sure I understand what's going on with this - assuming the Estonia, the M, and the O are in good regulation. Care to elaborate?
_________________________
Will Johnny Come Marching Home?
The fate of the modern wartime soldier

Top
#221495 - 11/25/08 03:51 PM Re: Steinway Essex baby grand -- Is it worth the money?
Norbert Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/03/01
Posts: 13965
Loc: Surrey, B.C.
 Quote:
I would encourage you to do a search for "Essex" on this forum. Beware that this forum is historically an anti-Steinway-designed pianos (Steinway, Boston, and Essex) site, which flies in the face of what music school after music school is selecting for their students.
School selcetion of any one brand depends on a lot more variables than what is commonly assumed by the unsuspecting public.

The moment word comes out a college is looking for pianos, a number of corporations jump at the ready and make all kinds of proposals, none of which have anything to do with 'tone' or 'quality' of the pianos but rather 'cost'.

It's 100% business - plain and simple.

And this 'business' is worked out in each case differently with the benfits accruing to the college in one way or another being competed with usually by several companies all at one.

Of course, nobody could ever accuse Steinway not being good at business...

Norbert ;\)
_________________________
www.heritagepianos.com
Greater Vancouver B.C. piano dealers for : C.Sauter, Estonia, Brodmann, Ritmuller
604-951-8642

Top
#221496 - 11/26/08 04:45 PM Re: Steinway Essex baby grand -- Is it worth the money?
TheCaz Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/12/08
Posts: 224
Loc: Simi Valley, CA
Hi T,

The pianos are in very good shape. Their actions are so fast that they're not very forgiving of the kind of mistakes that I'm making as a beginner. It's hard to put into words, but let me try. As I'm learning to play a piece, I start out very slowly and then speed up as I become more familiar with it. One of the problems that I have, and I assume it's fairly typical, is that no matter how fast I play, I still can't play it as fast and smooth as the piece calls for, which is why I'm a beginner.

When I'm on an Estonia or Steinway, it's far too easy to play at a faster speed than I'm capable of playing at, so I mess up. On the A Weber, I don't have the same tendency to overplay my ability because the action isn't as fast and the keys are less sensitive to being pressed with varying tensions. It's the inverse of why a great player prefers playing on a great piano.

Another analogy is learning to drive. Which car is safer for a new driver, a Toyota Corolla or a Ferrari Dino?

Top
#1167042 - 03/22/09 10:58 PM Re: Steinway Essex baby grand -- Is it worth the money? [Re: TheCaz]
Steve B Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/22/09
Posts: 48
Loc: Canada
You should be able to get an Essex for under $20,000 (closer to $15,000 I would think). But there is one advantage the Essex and Boston have (I've only tried the Boston, and it's worth the price of admission BTW): Steinway offers 100% of the original purchase price if you decide to upgrade to a full Steinway within 10 years of buying your Essex. So if you buy the Kawai and want to upgrade, you're out whatever the depreciated value is. But with the Essex or Boston, that price is leveraged against your upgraded instrument.

Just a thought in value-added terms.

Top
#1167051 - 03/22/09 11:15 PM Re: Steinway Essex baby grand -- Is it worth the money? [Re: Steve B]
Diaphragmatic Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/09/09
Posts: 422
Thread is 5 months old if anyone cares or hadn't noticed..
_________________________
Musically Yours,
Jonathan Hunt

Sales Professional:
Steinway, Boston, Essex, Kohler & Campbell

The Music Gallery
Clearwater, Fl.

Top
#1167074 - 03/23/09 12:30 AM Re: Steinway Essex baby grand -- Is it worth the m [Re: Steve B]
Bear 1 Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/28/06
Posts: 1348
Loc: Hillsboro Beach South Florida
Originally Posted By: Steve B
You should be able to get an Essex for under $20,000 (closer to $15,000 I would think). But there is one advantage the Essex and Boston have (I've only tried the Boston, and it's worth the price of admission BTW): Steinway offers 100% of the original purchase price if you decide to upgrade to a full Steinway within 10 years of buying your Essex. So if you buy the Kawai and want to upgrade, you're out whatever the depreciated value is. But with the Essex or Boston, that price is leveraged against your upgraded instrument.

Just a thought in value-added terms.

---------
Many Kawai dealers offer a ten year 100% of the original purchase price Kawai trade up policy on new Kawai pianos.

Many Steinway dealers offer a ten year 100% of the original purchase price of a Kawai if traded in on a new Steinway.

Many dealers of various different brands love to trade in Kawai pianos that are less than 10 years old, due to Kawai's full and fully transferrable factory warranty. Good for the dealer and very very good for the subsequent owners of the used Kawais.
I don't think Essex and Boston pianos have transferrable warranties.

In my opinion, 100% trade up policies aren't necessarily a good deal for the consumer. Those 10 year trade in deals thought of as "value-added terms" usually aren't consumer friendly value added terms.

Do a search here on Piano Forum regarding 100% trade ups.

At the present time there seems to be some very low negotiated selling prices on many brands of pianos including Kawai.

I'm not too sure what the "Family of Steinway Designed Pianos" dealers are doing regarding "knock your socks off" discounted prices on their instruments.

Anyway, as stated many times before,
"Buy the piano, not the deal."

Bear
_________________________
Barry J "Bear" Arnaut ♫
46 Years in the Piano Industry
Retired Kawai/Shigeru Kawai Regional Manager
(My posts and threads are my opinions only)

Top
#1167279 - 03/23/09 12:27 PM Re: Steinway Essex baby grand -- Is it worth the m [Re: Bear 1]
choleric Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/16/09
Posts: 233
I've personally played a couple Essex grands and was very impressed. Solid action, very warm tone, and generally sounds bigger than it actually is. I was very impressed with the salespeople I spoke with, too, which does not happen to often. I've heard very favorable things about the iPod system but have not heard it.
_________________________
Choleric
Yamaha CVP307 digital piano

Top
#1437557 - 05/16/10 01:31 AM Re: Steinway Essex baby grand -- Is it worth the m [Re: choleric]
DeeDeeP Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 05/13/10
Posts: 6
i am also looking for my daughter that stopped playing and now wants to begin again. I am in the market as well for a grand......Rx-2 for about $8000...1996. ALso looking at a Yamaha DGH1 for $7000 and a Boston GP 157 for $7500 both year 2000. I saw some impressive KG-2C that preceded the RX-2 but I am afraid of the age factor being they were about 30 years old. Any thoughts on where I should go...I was leading towards the RX-2 my husband is not exactly happy with the satin ebony finish and now I'm not sure my daughter can handle the R-2 from reading above????Also we looked at a NEW Young Chang GP-157 for about $8300.

It seems because of the economy , you can get some great deals on new pianos, but my pockets are a little low



Can be so confusing.........
DEEDEEP

Top
#1437574 - 05/16/10 01:58 AM Re: Steinway Essex baby grand -- Is it worth the m [Re: DeeDeeP]
gnuboi Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/26/10
Posts: 2349
Loc: USA
Instead of worrying about whether your daughter can handle a grand's action, just have her try it out and see. She is experienced and can form a preference quickly as you go piano shopping. I wish I had started on a grand sooner, because I still only have "upright" muscles.

Hailun seems to be a popular brand on this forum. Good value for the money. If you can find a larger Hailun than the RX-2 for about the same price, that would be nice. The RX-3 is pretty awesome, though, if you can find an older one that fits your budget.

Top
#1437723 - 05/16/10 10:36 AM Re: Steinway Essex baby grand -- Is it worth the m [Re: gnuboi]
DeeDeeP Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 05/13/10
Posts: 6
I was pushing on the 5'10" size but that is the largest I can go....Any thoughts on the other manufacturers???? My budget is $7000-tops $8000..

Top
#1437913 - 05/16/10 05:31 PM Re: Steinway Essex baby grand -- Is it worth the m [Re: DeeDeeP]
gnuboi Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/26/10
Posts: 2349
Loc: USA
An older (even 20 or 30 years) 5'10" might still be preferable to a newer 5'3" or 5'4". Look for Baldwin (M's and R's); keep looking for Kawai. Once in a while I see ads for Bechstein and Schimmel in your price and size range, too.

Top
#1439750 - 05/19/10 01:31 PM Re: Steinway Essex baby grand -- Is it worth the m [Re: gnuboi]
DeeDeeP Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 05/13/10
Posts: 6
Any info on a Schimmel May/Berlin??

Top
#1439786 - 05/19/10 02:42 PM Re: Steinway Essex baby grand -- Is it worth the m [Re: DeeDeeP]
terminaldegree Online   content
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/03/06
Posts: 2555
Loc: western Wisconsin
Try doing a search for May Berlin. It has been discussed here recently a few times.
_________________________
Pianist, teacher, internet addict.
Piano Review Editor - Acoustic and Digital Piano Buyer
Casio px-200, Bechstein A190 #192939 @ home
Steinway A #585209, B #416809 @ work
Schimmel 130T #339100, on loan

Top
#1439820 - 05/19/10 03:55 PM Re: Steinway Essex baby grand -- Is it worth the m [Re: terminaldegree]
Horowitzian Offline
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/18/08
Posts: 8453
***OLD THREAD ALERT***

Top

Moderator:  Ken Knapp, Piano World, Rickster 
What's Hot!!
HOW TO POST PICTURES on the Piano Forums
-------------------
Sharing is Caring!
About the Buttons
-------------------
Forums Rules & Help
-------------------
ADVERTISE
on Piano World

The world's most popular piano web site.
-------------------
PIANO BOOKS
Interesting books about the piano, pianists, piano history, biographies, memoirs and more!
(125ad) Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
Sheet Music
(PW is an affiliate)
Sheet Music Plus Featured Sale
Download & Print Sheet Music Instantly
sheet music search
sheet music search

sheet music search
(ad) HAILUN Pianos
Hailun Pianos - Click for More
(ad) Lindeblad Piano
Lindeblad Piano Restoration
Who's Online
104 registered (3rd Ear, ado, AndreiN, Adam Coleman, ADWyatt, 30 invisible), 1205 Guests and 36 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Stats
74223 Members
42 Forums
153538 Topics
2250062 Posts

Max Online: 15252 @ 03/21/10 11:39 PM
New Topics - Multiple Forums
2014 Bradshaw and Buono Piano Competition
by hsheck
58 minutes 3 seconds ago
What is the strangest thing you have found inside a piano?
by That Tooner
Yesterday at 11:18 PM
Kawai vs Ritmuller
by cromax
Yesterday at 11:08 PM
Considering going into debt for a Steinway grand
by joonsang
Yesterday at 10:38 PM
Best Glue for Damper Pads
by JMichaelWilson
Yesterday at 10:07 PM
(ads by Google)

Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers

 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
| Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World | Donate | Link to Us | Classifieds |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter | Press Room |


copyright 1997 - 2014 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission