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I've had my CP5 for over a week and am now getting around on it pretty well; I found the CP300 easier to navigate on, but with the CP5 you really have to read the manual.
I've come across an anomaly that I can hear extremely well through my Sony MDR-V600 headphones. A cluster of four notes, B,C,C#,D from the default piano sound, two octaves above middle C, are noticeably louder than the surrounding notes when played at a ff or fff level. I also realize that on a job going through speakers this may be less noticeable. I've already passed this on to Yamaha's tech in Germany.
I would appreciate it if those of you who own a CP5 would try and duplicate this and share your thoughts.
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Dave, sorry to hear that you're having trouble with it. I have a MIDI file that checks velocity layers for each C note - could you run it through your CP1 and posting an MP3 of the results? I'd be very interested in what it shows. Perhaps that C (C6 I believe?) will stick out compared to the others at high velocities. The MIDI file is here: http://www.mediafire.com/?5brlzawgjd4
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dewster, I'll get around to running your test but it really would be easier to play the CP5 and report back, wouldn't it? While I'm sure your test will yield measurable results, it would be easier to play a chromatic run rather than testing all the C's an octave apart.
I first stumbled onto this by playing adjacent tones, not tones an octave apart.
Anyone here who owns a CP5 who can give this try?
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Dave, I'd love to be able to play test the CP5 (or the CP1/CP50), however rather ironically I have been unable to find one in stores locally.
Perhaps you could post an MP3 of yourself playing, then allow us to guess where the offending notes are?
Cheers, James x
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I would appreciate it if those of you who own a CP5 would try and duplicate this and share your thoughts. Mine does it. And I'm not impressed. I'm having some serious doubts about the sounds this instrument makes. They don't seem very full, and there is often a blarey quality to the midrange. I gave myself a crash course in this thing and know my way around it now. And I've been getting increasingly frustrated by the tone of this keyboard to the extent that I may return it. I'm glad to see you in this thread Dave F. You know I've been fussing about the sound of this thing on keyboard corner. And you brought up the idea of having some crucial elements of the keyboard upgraded. You quoted a noted technician who said that op amps, converters, and other critical parts are often of poor quality in Japanese keyboard products. My question to Dewster and other smart people around here is, what's going on? Are Yamaha and other keyboard makers putting poor quality converters and other critical parts in these keyboards? If that's the case, that's really lame in my opinion. Charge more money and put good parts in there. It makes me wonder how those parts stack up between prior Yamaha stage pianos, and the current batch. And I wonder if there's any difference between those parts in the CP1, CP5, and CP50? Maybe there is some improvement there with the CP1, which would help explain the fact that it costs nearly twice as much as the CP5. Mychal
Last edited by Peakly; 05/23/10 09:24 AM.
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As I stated, the anomaly is in the default piano sound; out of box the keyboard defaults to Pre1:A01, the CF Grand. I've edited that piano and now use the -1 hammer setting (along with a tad more reverb). (I too am not thrilled with the S6 piano sound and have no plans to use it.)
It seems every keyboard I buy, to include my trusty GranTouch 1, always has a few samples that weren't tweaked properly and somehow managed to slip by the final inspection. (On my GranTouch 1 there are two 3 note samples that are out of tune with themselves but only when the sustain pedal is depressed. This is now almost academic as I expect delivery of my AvantGrand within several days.) I would love to test a piano before it is offered to the public. If I can discover these glitches what does that say?
I had issues with my P250 as well as my CP300 I should add.
Peakly, since your keyboard also has the same issue, I won't be recording it as I'm now assuming this problem is in the chip. I do invite others to see if they can hear what I'm talking about ... and complain to their authorized Yamaha tech. It would be great if Yamaha could improve this not so minor glitch on their flagship piano. Like I said, this might be less noticeable on jobs through speakers but I always first tweak my settings through a good set of headphones; now that's I'm aware of this I seem to notice this anomaly even more.
A final note, so to speak, it's been a very long time since I posted here and my last post at the Keyboard Forum at musicplayer.com was in January of this year when I was not so nicely asked to leave. I'll try and behave myself here though I'll probably just lurk and jump in when I have something to add.
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A final note, so to speak, it's been a very long time since I posted here and my last post at the Keyboard Forum at musicplayer.com was in January of this year when I was not so nicely asked to leave. I'll try and behave myself here though I'll probably just lurk and jump in when I have something to add. Interesting revelation. What happened that you were asked to leave? Have you been living in the Netherlands so long that you have taken over the anti-authoritarian, irreverent, direct to the point of rudeness and mild anarchistic bent of the Dutchman? As long as you are not breaking the law, you will find this place quite tolerant of misbehavin', especially when it is aimed at improving our lot of getting screwed by the major manufacturers. It seems every keyboard I buy, to include my trusty GranTouch 1, always has a few samples that weren't tweaked properly and somehow managed to slip by the final inspection. (On my GranTouch 1 there are two 3 note samples that are out of tune with themselves but only when the sustain pedal is depressed. This is now almost academic as I expect delivery of my AvantGrand within several days.) I would love to test a piano before it is offered to the public. If I can discover these glitches what does that say?
There have been some Yamaha apologists here that were very critical of recent firmware problems with new Kawai releases claiming that Yamaha would never release a product with warts. Interesting to see that Yamaha and Kawai are both in the same boat on this issue.
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Interesting revelation. What happened that you were asked to leave? Have you been living in the Netherlands so long that you have taken over the anti-authoritarian, irreverent, direct to the point of rudeness and mild anarchistic bent of the Dutchman? ...and Englishman! Cheers, Steve
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Hey, speak for yourself Tractor boy! James x
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Ah, but James, your veneer of civilization has to be a little thicker than the rest of us, living in Japan!
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I had issues with my P250 as well as my CP300 I should add.
I'll try and behave myself here Nah, speak your mind! Why beat around the bush? I would much rather hear the straight scoop, rather than someone trying to politely fit in. What were the issues with the P250 and CP300? Mychal
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dewster, I'll get around to running your test but it really would be easier to play the CP5 and report back, wouldn't it? I don't own one, so no. While I'm sure your test will yield measurable results, it would be easier to play a chromatic run rather than testing all the C's an octave apart. You say this only happens at ff fff levels, I'm not sure exactly what MIDI velocity that would correspond to. But playing all velocities on all C's would help me see what's going on across the entire keyboard - something on C6 might jump out when compared to the other C notes. The test might be able to rule in or out problems with the sound engine or sample set. If those seem OK then I would suspect the issue would likely be in the keybed.
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Are Yamaha and other keyboard makers putting poor quality converters and other critical parts in these keyboards? If that's the case, that's really lame in my opinion. Charge more money and put good parts in there. Not having a photo of the main board, I can only speculate. It's possible that Yamaha engineers have cut one too many corners in the hardware, but I think that is rather unlikely. Entirely adequate op-amps are fairly low-end items, and decent converters are inexpensive items too. IMO audiophiles are muddying these waters, crying wolf at every opportunity. The kinds of corners engineers cut are in using eletrolytic instead of tantalum caps (thus impacting long-term reliability). (This BTW is why I build my own PCs - I go for the ultra-durable motherboards with heavy copper and solid caps.) I think your dissatisfaction with the sound of the CP is most likely issues with the sample set. I just listened to the DPBSD MP3 of the CP1 again, and the CFIII loops are quite plain sounding, with very little wobbly inter-beating going on, and the transition between attack sample and loop could be smoother. Among others, one stretch group in Dave's region of complaint is audible too - I wonder if that could have anything to do with the velocity issue?
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I had issues with my P250 as well as my CP300 I should add.
I'll try and behave myself here Nah, speak your mind! Why beat around the bush? I would much rather hear the straight scoop, rather than someone trying to politely fit in. What were the issues with the P250 and CP300? Mychal I don't want to state anything that's not accurate but as I recall there was a buzz, a very minor buzz, in a handful of notes in the octave below middle C - or if not a buzz, some notes just stood out unnecessarily. Since I have have neither piano before me I really cannot go into any detail. I just buy the latest Yamaha stage piano when they are introduced and sell what I have for an excellent price. (I sold my CP300 for €1600 and bought the CP5 for €2150.) When you listen to a piano using headphones you hear many more of the little flaws that exist ... and that also exist in the real piano as well; little buzzes that exist in the real world also get sampled. While some might find that charming, my take is this, as long as they're sampling the real McCoy, why not eliminate those little buzzes that also exist in the real world.
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When you listen to a piano using headphones you hear many more of the little flaws that exist ... and that also exist in the real piano as well; little buzzes that exist in the real world also get sampled. While some might find that charming, my take is this, as long as they're sampling the real McCoy, why not eliminate those little buzzes that also exist in the real world. Or why not take a modeling approach instead rather than relying on static, discrete recordings.
Last edited by theJourney; 05/23/10 12:48 PM.
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Or why not take a modeling approach instead rather than relying on static, discrete recordings.
Well, because modelling doesn't (yet) sound accurate . . .
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"Well, it just goes to show you it's always something. If it's not one thing, it's another! --Roseanne Roseannadanna
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I have a CP-300, which I only use as a piano, and I think its great. It has a good tone, very realistic, nice response, nice keyboard. The ONLY thing is that it really needs more polyphony to cope with the key off samples and string resonance. However, very nice keyboard. I've never tried a CP-5 etc.
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Entirely adequate op-amps are fairly low-end items, and decent converters are inexpensive items too. IMO audiophiles are muddying these waters, crying wolf at every opportunity.
I think your dissatisfaction with the sound of the CP is most likely issues with the sample set. Ok. Thanks for sharing that information. So I shouldn't buy a CP5 hoping I can swap out converters and other parts to make it sound significantly better. It did make me wonder, though, because in my studio when I upgraded the conversion and clocking with my recorder, the difference was substantial. So I thought the same thing could happen with a digital keyboard. The quality of the converters seems like it would be a crucial part of the chain, but you're saying that what they are installing is probably adequate. I am re-thinking my options regarding a stage piano. It's very disappointing, really. I was certain it was going to fit in perfectly with what I'm doing. I like the action, the architecture of the keyboard, the way they laid out the editing, the size of the keyboard, the ergonomics - I like a lot of it. But the last thing I expected was that I was going to be disappointed with the sound and tone. Am I wrong to think that this $2,600 keyboard should hold its own with other keyboards I have? My Receptor and Korg Trinity smoke the CP5 in terms of tone, depth, and richness and bigness of sound. The CP5 sounds smaller, narrower, and kind of blarey and midrangy in comparison. I have tried all the various parameters, eq'd like mad, softened and hardened the hammers, etc. And still the keyboard just sounds smaller and narrower and less musical than other keyboards that I have. I guess I could use it mainly as a controller, and use midi to get a bigger, fuller, more happening sound. But then what's the point of spending $2,600 on all those internal sounds, and the AP and EP modeling Yamaha has been shouting about for the last year? It seems like too much money for a controller with a nice keyboard action. Mychal
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So I shouldn't buy a CP5 hoping I can swap out converters and other parts to make it sound significantly better.
It did make me wonder, though, because in my studio when I upgraded the conversion and clocking with my recorder, the difference was substantial. So I thought the same thing could happen with a digital keyboard. The quality of the converters seems like it would be a crucial part of the chain, but you're saying that what they are installing is probably adequate. Preamps and A/D converters probably vary more in quality than D/A converters - quite decent D/A converters are in everything these days. With the advent of oversampled delta-sigma designs, the construction of the output filter has been greatly simplified.
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Preamps and A/D converters probably vary more in quality than D/A converters - quite decent D/A converters are in everything these days. Ok. I really appreciate the help. Now that I think about it, the most significant advantage I gained from upgrading my studio conversions was with the A/D, plus the improvement I got from clocking with it. Mychal
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Dave Horne, maybe you can answer this question since you've got a CP5:
I'm learning to use my CP5 as a controller. I've got it midied to my Muse Receptor. It seems to be working fine, except I can't figure out how to use the part buttons and volume knobs to control the Receptor. I'm starting to wonder - is it even possible to assign the four on/off buttons and volume knobs to an external device like the Receptor? I've been through both manuals and searched through all the menus, and I can't see how to assign those part buttons and volume knobs to an external device.
I see how to use the Common settings area to turn on the zones, and assign them to a MIDI channel or internal tone generator. And from that same area I found the page where you can use one of the three big black knobs to control the volume of an external device using MIDI. But surely it's possible to assign the four small part volume knobs to control volume of an external MIDI device. At least, I hope it is.
Do you, or anyone else, know how to accomplish this? I would really appreciate any help.
Thanks,
Mychal
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Peakly, just a fast response - Press the appropriate Left or Left 1 or Right or Right 1 button that is lit. When you press it for a split second it goes out. If instead you press it and keep it depressed for a second or more you will then open up the editing menu.
I've found the easiest way to navigate the editing menu is to now simply press one of the many lit buttons on the right side of the screen, 1 - 10, and A, B, C. Depending on what can be edited will determine how many of those buttons will not be lit. (Of course, you can still use those three big buttons to navigate as well.) (Saving those edits is another story. I first press Store and then Enter before getting to the big three buttons for the final Save. I'm saying this now without being in front of the keyboard.)
You'll probably see the midi functions you want towards the end of that many paged menu, page 9, 10, A or so.
There are volume controls above every 'voice' - Left, Left 1, etc. and they can be used for adjusting the levels in real time. (I think you already knew that ... ?)
Since I'm not using my CP5 to control other modules I can only give you very general information ... and if what I gave you you already knew, sorry.
The set up of the CP5 is not intuitive I've learned. At the very least, it is easier to navigate through the many menus in the CP5 than it was in my old Roland A-80. That A-80 could do just about anything but I had to keep a copy of the menu setup on the keyboard so I knew where I was.
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You'll probably see the midi functions you want towards the end of that many paged menu, page 9, 10, A or so. You would think I would see the midi functions I want on one of those pages, but I can't find anywhere the ability to assign the part volume controls to a midi device other than the internal voices of the CP5. I submitted an inquiry to Yamaha support last night. I called their support staff today, and the person I had on the line couldn't answer the question. They are going to get back to me via email or phone. I'm concerned that the machine is not capable of this function, which would be a serious handicap. I'm aware of the various editing moves that you detailed, but thank you anyway for your insights. I guess I'll wait for Yamaha to get back to me. Another editing function that I haven't been able to find, which would be a tremendous time-saver, is the ability to copy settings from one part to another. My 15 year old Trinity can do this, but I can't find it anywhere in this machine. I'm going to ask Yamaha about that too. Mychal
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Peakly, perhaps I'm being dense here but I just looked at one performance I created and on page 11 (button A), I see RecVol On (Off).
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Peakly, perhaps I'm being dense here but I just looked at one performance I created and on page 11 (button A), I see RecVol On (Off). Thanks for checking that out Dave. I saw that last night too, and turned it on and off, but it doesn't enable the part knobs to send volume control. I just powered everything back up again right now, and tried it again, but that isn't it, unfortunately. No matter what I've tried, I can't get the part knobs to send volume control to an external midi device. I just switched external sound modules to make sure I didn't have a setting wrong on that end, but still nothing. The only way I have found that will send volume control to a midi sound module is to go to the Common menu, use knob 3 to turn Zone Sw on, go to Page 2 and set the Target to midi, make sure the Transmit Channel is right, go to Page 7 and push down the middle knob to turn Volume on, then use that same middle knob to control the volume of the midi sound module. That middle black knob, after doing all of those steps, is the only way I have found to control external volume. I'm still waiting for Yamaha to get back to me. Mychal Edit: I had a CP300 here for a few weeks, and I'm sure I remember using the part volume faders to control the volume of midi sound modules. I think you have, or had a CP300 too? Those part volume faders controlled external volumes too, right?
Last edited by Peakly; 05/24/10 06:40 PM.
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Mychal, I'm sure it is possible to send external CC using the part knobs.
If it isn't yet, I expect this will be added/fixed with a software update in the near future.
Cheers, James x
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Mychal, I'm sure it is possible to send external CC using the part knobs.
If it isn't yet, I expect this will be added/fixed with a software update in the near future. Excuse me if I sound cranky, I don't mean to. But you say you're sure it's possible to send external cc using the part knobs, and then in the next sentence you say if it's not possible then it will be fixed in the future. There are some fine features in this machine, and some weak ones. I still don't know about controlling volume with the part knobs, because Yamaha hasn't gotten back to me yet. But I do know that compared to my other keyboards, the tone and overall sound of this keyboard is narrow and shallow. There are certain keys that jump out and are louder than other keys. The pads, synths and strings are thin. My Receptor makes it sound like a toy. There are a lot of goofy sounds that I can't picture a pro keyboardist ever using. The drum sounds are lame...why are there even drum sounds in there? Which leads me to wonder - who is the market Yamaha is shooting for with the CP5? It seems like they have tried to cast a wide net with this keyboard, and are trying to appeal to a very diverse group of consumers. It's as if they would rather do a lot of things just ok, rather than do a few things well. Hopefully, Yamaha support will get back to me tomorrow, and I'll know if this keyboard can be used as a controller. I hope it can, and they simply forgot to explain it in the manual. But so far, Yamaha hasn't said anything, and I haven't seen anyone posting here or anywhere else about using the CP5 as a midi controller. Mychal
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My initial thoughts after spending ten minutes with the CP5 - I made a mistake selling my CP300 and buying this. After I spent more days on the CP5 ... and rereading the owner's manual as well as the reference manual, things started to look better. Without reading the manual I'm not so sure I would have stumbled onto holding buttons down for a second to access other menus. I would advise going back to square one and rereading the manuals. I sent my wife the pdf files of the manuals and she printed them out and had them bound as well. I keep them either on my grand piano or with my collection of magazines in the bathroom. You gotta read something.
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My initial thoughts after spending ten minutes with the CP5 - I made a mistake selling my CP300 and buying this.
That's interesting. I was the opposite. I was so happy when the CP5 first arrived, I could hardly stand it. I'd waited for months for it, and I immediately liked the smaller profile of it compared to the CP300. I also liked some ergonomic improvements like moving the sustain pedal jack away from the middle of the keyboard, I really liked the touch, and I liked the understated color and look of the instrument. I dove in and literally did almost nothing else for several days but get to know this keyboard, because I was sure I was keeping it. After I spent more days on the CP5 ... and rereading the owner's manual as well as the reference manual, things started to look better. Again, our experiences are almost opposites. I had read the owners manual and the reference manual several times before I ever got the keyboard, because I wanted to be sure I was getting something I could use. But I have to confess it never dawned on me that those part knobs might not control external midi, so I overlooked that part. Also, the more I got into editing the onboard sounds, the more concerned I got, because I was expecting more "depth" from the sounds. I guess I've gotten spoiled by some other keyboards I've got, but honestly, I feel like $2,600 should get you some serious deep sounds that can keep up with your other gear. Otherwise, leave the sounds out, and just call it a controller. But of course, if it's a controller, it needs to be able to do certain things. I would advise going back to square one and rereading the manuals. Well, I'm not sure which part I should read again, and why. I know how to access everything in the part menus, as well as the pre amp, mod, power amp, common, utility, and other menus. Some people don't like manuals - I'm not one of them. I've got every manual for every piece of gear I've ever bought - including the fridge and vacuum cleaner! I even read the manuals for my hardware eqs and comps. I scour manuals, because I like to really know what I've got so I can get the most out of it. No one wants this thing to be cool more than me. I passed up a lot of other keyboards waiting for it, and it's got some definite upsides. I'm hoping Yamaha gets back in touch with me and points out something I overlooked, so that it can be used as an external midi controller. It cost me around $300 to send back the CP300 because to return it you have to pay shipping both ways. If I send this one back too, it's going to be close to that much again. Mychal
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Peakly, I hope this works out for you. I was just trying to be helpful with my comments.
All the best, DH
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Mychal, may I ask why you sent the CP300 back?
Cheers, James x
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I have to say I'm very happy with the CP5 (other than needing to exchange it for one without a busted key bed). But then I'm not super sensitive to distinctions in acoustic piano sounds, having spent most of the last 19 years playing a Korg M1 through stereo speakers.
And I did read the manual and the PDF files. But I can't seem to figure out how to get the drum kits to play. I can play all the pre-recorded patterns (there are 100), but I imagine there must be a way to lay down original drum tracks using the keys. I'm pretty good at figuring out how these consoles work, but I can't for the life of me figure out how to do this. Anyone? A little help, please? Thanks.
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Peakly, I hope this works out for you. I was just trying to be helpful with my comments. Dave, you have been, and I really mean that. I'm glad you were willing to discuss this thing with me. You've helped me look hard at what these keyboards can and can't do - I really appreciate you checking it out on this forum at the same time as me! Mychal, may I ask why you sent the CP300 back? The million dollar question! You won't believe it - I just got off the phone from buying another CP300 :-) I know, I'm a basket case. Please don't state the obvious. I figure at worst I'm going to throw that return shipping money away again, but I'm going to have to throw some away anyway if I return the CP5. I'm going to do what I intended to do in the first place: compare the CP300 and the CP5 side by side here in my studio. I had the CP300 here, and the salesperson was willing to let me keep it until the CP5s were released. But I got nervous about it being here for so long - I didn't want anything to happen to it, and I was almost certain that I would like the CP5 better. I was sold on all the talk about modeling, and what you could do with hammer setting, tine placement, etc. Plus, the CP300 is huge, and I'm going to gig with this thing. The action is heavier than I would have liked. But I'm having so many doubts about this CP5. I don't like the unpredictability of the touch in the medium high register. I don't know if that's a byproduct of the new lighter action, or a symptom of their modeling or sampling, or what. But I'm not impressed with how some notes jump out louder than other notes, using the same touch. I think it was a mistake to replace those nice faders with these knobs. I'm not convinced the sounds (including AP and EP) are superior in the CP5. I'm looking forward to having them both here, and seeing which one fits better with what I'm trying to do. Does anyone know - can I take the speakers out of the CP300, and any amps or anything else related to them that would add weight to the keyboard? I would never use those speakers. Can they simply be removed? Mychal
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I'm pretty good at figuring out how these consoles work, but I can't for the life of me figure out how to do this. I just used the search feature in both the CP5 manual and the CP5 Reference Manual. I searched for the word "drums." Makes sense, right? There will be a bunch of different places in both of those manuals referring to how to use the drums? Well, here's what the search in both of those manuals said: Finished searching for: drums.
Total instances found: 0What does that tell you? Can anyone make any sense out of that? If I were you, I would send an email and call Yamaha Support. Their number is on their website, and so is their email address. Mychal
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Peakly, I opened up my CP300 several times and took out one speaker to see what its weight was. The amount of weight you would save is negligible. I put it back in. For me it wasn't the weight so much as the overall size - it is a monster. If I had to do it all over again I would have bought the CP33 instead of the CP300. The CP33 is roughly the same size as the CP5 which is, as far as I'm concerned, the proper size for a stage piano. The flight case I have for that CP300 will be large enough for _any_ stage piano I ever buy for the next 20 years. (I'm almost 60 and figure statistically I'll be dead in 20 years. )
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Not wishing to complicate things further, but have you considered an alternative to Yamaha?
The RD-700GX is a terrific instrument, and with the new SuperNatural upgrade is arguably one of the best boards currently available.
Finally, regarding shipping the instrument(s) back to the dealer, $300 sounds rather expensive - could you not have purchased the CP5/CP300 from a local store?
Cheers, James x
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Here is the scoop straight from Yamaha:
The Right and Left knobs cannot be used to control the volume of your external modules, but the three assignable encoders can.
Regards, Yamaha Support
That sounds final, and it's disappointing news. Yamaha has taken a step backwards from the CP300 in terms of the keyboard's capabilities as a controller. And there is no mention of an error on their part, or any plans to change it.
I also asked Yamaha about copying one part to another part, or copying any settings like effects from part to part. I have fifteen year old keyboards that will do this, and it is a huge time saver. Here is their reply:
Parts cannot be copied within the CP5. It does not have this feature.
Regards, Yamaha Support
I guess it's a good thing a CP300 is on the way here. I need a keyboard with good onboard AP and EP, and good controller features.
James, I've considered other keyboards. And Dave, I wish I could get the CP33. I agree - it's the right size. But I really want to put my upper keyboard on top of my lower keyboard if at all possible. It's something I like to do - the solidness and stability of that, plus how close the keyboards are to each other. I've also considered just a controller, but there doesn't seem to be anything out there that's interesting except the Studiologic Numa. But that has reliability issues, a mod wheel stuck up on the left side of it, and a touch screen. Plus I wouldn't have any backup if something happened to the sound module I would need to midi to on a gig. I wish I could design something, or put together a combination of several different keyboards. Somebody on this forum should design a new keyboard!
Mychal
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I would suggest an MP8II, however this instrument is built like a tank, and simply too heavy to gig with - without lifting assistance at least.
Cheers, James x
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There's a section in the manual called "Performing with a Backing Track."
It explains to press the Song Setting button, and turn Knob 1 to select either a drum phrase or drum kit. It seems drum phrases are the 100 prerecorded rhythms: rock, reggae, 70s ballad, etc. You can use Knob 3 to select drum kits. And when you press the start button, the rhythm sounds a very basic pattern using slightly different drums for each kit.
But -- and correct me if I'm wrong -- isn't the idea of a kit to offer the possibility of building your own rhythms using the keys as elements of a drum kit? Because if that's the case, I am completely lost. The keys all sound like whatever "performance" preset is selected. Not like drums.
What's the deal?
And while we're (meaning me) asking questions, is it strange that the pitch bend does not work when playing individual voices (not the "performances")? Or am I missing something?
I'm going to email Yamaha like you suggested. But I get the impression you might be smarter than them. Or at least easier to deal with.
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'And while we're (meaning me) asking questions, is it strange that the pitch bend does not work when playing individual voices (not the "performances")? Or am I missing something?'
Pitch Bend ( PBRange ) is set to 0. Press the button (under Left, Left 1, Right, Right 1) for one second or more and then press the various buttons , 1,2,3, etc, until you find the one with PBRange ... and change its value to any number other than 0.
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MagicRat,
I have not tried the new CP models, however I very much doubt that they allow users to create their own rhythm tracks. You would typically expect to see such functionality on an arranger board/workstation, not a stage piano.
Cheers, James x
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I'm going to email Yamaha like you suggested. But I get the impression you might be smarter than them. Or at least easier to deal with. Thank you for making that last remark! I feel a little better after reading that. I just edited one of my posts on Dave's thread about finding a CP in LA, because I'm afraid I'm starting to sound way too cynical! And I'm really not - this search for a keyboard that will last me for a while is actually pretty cool. I'm getting to find out about the different ones, and have them here in the studio so I can hear them clearly and get a good sense of how they feel. Regarding the smart part - I'm definitely not! But I'm like my mom's Danish side of the family - we're pretty stubborn and we don't like bs very much. And Danes love music too - my grandfather used to sing really loud in church, and he would dance with my mom to the radio in their kitchen. But I'm way off track now. I think it's a good idea to hit that link on the Yamaha website that connects you to support. Fill in all the places, and then state clearly what you want to know. They will get back to you within a couple of days. I think James is probably right - you can't create an original drum track with a CP5. I'm sorry if you thought otherwise - I know the feeling. Good luck and keep posting any questions you have. There are a lot of smart people on this forum! Mychal PS James, I have a feeling that Kawai keyboard is sweet! But I'm a little concerned about how high it goes up in the front. Thanks for the suggestion!
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OK. Thanks. But then what, exactly, is a drum kit for?
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Most likely General MIDI compatibility.
James x
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To MagicRat,
Sorry I know nothing about this DP, but the specs say there are 8 drum kits available.
I would imagine they would be found among the General Midi sound banks, and should be selectable for playing them 'live' on the keyboard.
If it helps, on my Kawai MP-5, the drum kits are found among the 'Bass/Guitar' banks. It may be worth going through each bank you have available, to find them.
Rob
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I've been reassigning the big knobs on my own 'performances' to correspond with the appropriate controls I want for a particular patch.
My 'piano' patch has reverb, hammer and volume assigned to those big three knobs for quick tweaking on jobs. My Rhodes patch has chorus depth, reverb and tine position. It's not intuitive to reassign functions but it is covered in the owner's manual.
Regarding drum kits - there are 14 (unless I'm mistaken) drum kits but they are not programmable ... and not accessible as 'voices' ; a glorified (and simplified) rhythm machine
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If I had to do it all over again I would have bought the CP33 instead of the CP300. The CP33 is roughly the same size as the CP5 which is, as far as I'm concerned, the proper size for a stage piano. Hi Dave, I can tell you that you would not be happy with the CP33. I have gigged with one the past several years and while it is light and easy to transport, I only tolerate it. The best piano in there is the mono sample. I have almost bought a CP300 several times during the past year, then decided to wait for the CP5. It sounds like I may go for the CP300 since weight is not really an issue and I love the way it sounds and plays.
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If I had to do it all over again I would have bought the CP33 instead of the CP300. The CP33 is roughly the same size as the CP5 which is, as far as I'm concerned, the proper size for a stage piano. Hi Dave, I can tell you that you would not be happy with the CP33. I have gigged with one the past several years and while it is light and easy to transport, I only tolerate it. The best piano in there is the mono sample. I have almost bought a CP300 several times during the past year, then decided to wait for the CP5. It sounds like I may go for the CP300 since weight is not really an issue and I love the way it sounds and plays. I never played a CP300 and CP33 side by side, but I was always under the impression that the default grand piano patch was the same on both. The only changes I made to the CP300's piano sound was to tweak the EQ, change the reverb type and add more reverb.
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I never played a CP300 and CP33 side by side, but I was always under the impression that the default grand piano patch was the same on both.
They may be the same, but they don't sound the same. To my ear, at least. I can tell you for sure the playing experience is much, much better on the 300. Maybe that what makes the difference...
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You can assign zones to the CP5 to be used as a master keyboard. The Right and Left knobs cannot be used to control the volume of your external modules, but the three assignable encoders can. Details regarding these settings can be found on page 45 in the CP5/50 Owner's Manual and page 32 in the CP5/50 Reference Manual. Can anyone please help me figure this out? The above quote is from Yamaha Support, in reference to controlling the volume of an external midi sound module. Are they saying those three big black knobs in the middle of the keyboard can be assigned to control external midi volumes? All I can see is how to assign foot switches and foot controllers, not the big black knobs. So maybe they aren't talking about the knobs - maybe they just mean foot controllers. Does that sound right? Does anyone have any insights here? If I could assign those three black knobs to control external midi volume, that might work for me. But from what I read in the manuals, I don't see any reference to assigning anything to them. I've overdosed on the Yamaha keyboard manual. I need a stiff drink as an antidote. Mychal
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If I could assign those three black knobs to control external midi volume, that might work for me. But from what I read in the manuals, I don't see any reference to assigning anything to them.
I've already written about assigning my own specific parameters to those three large knobs. Take another look at the owner's manual and you'll find it. If I can do this, you can too.
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OT: Do you realize how confusing it gets when someone changes the subject of a thread?
If you go to the full reply screen, you can change the subject. The problem with this is that it changes the subject in most recent post column of the all forum view and the recent posts, but not the original subject in the forum itself.
So someone sees a new posting on the thread "Assignable Encoders...?" They go into the Digital Pianos forum and there is no sign of a thread labeled "Assignable Encoders...?" The actual posting is in "CP5 ... some thoughts"
If you see it pop up and want to come back to it later, how would you ever associate what appears to be two separate threads?
Sorry, just venting about a feature that drives me nuts.
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Take another look at the owner's manual and you'll find it. If I can do this, you can too. Why be cryptic? If someone asks for help on this or other forums, I always try to be as specific as possible, so they can figure out what to do. I appreciate it when other people have helped me in the same way. What purpose does it serve to say if I can do it, you can too? What pages are you referencing? In the owner's manual, or reference manual, or both? Yamaha Support specifically said the information would be found on page 45 of the owner's manual, and page 32 of the reference manual. But the only instructions regarding assigning encoders on those pages pertains to foot controllers and the pitch bend wheel. Mychal
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Take another look at the owner's manual and you'll find it. If I can do this, you can too. Why be cryptic? If someone asks for help on this or other forums, I always try to be as specific as possible, so they can figure out what to do. I appreciate it when other people have helped me in the same way. What purpose does it serve to say if I can do it, you can too? What pages are you referencing? In the owner's manual, or reference manual, or both? Yamaha Support specifically said the information would be found on page 45 of the owner's manual, and page 32 of the reference manual. But the only instructions regarding assigning encoders on those pages pertains to foot controllers and the pitch bend wheel. Mychal What purpose does it serve to say if I can do it, you can too?I'm sorry, let me stop what I'm doing, look up the information in the same owner's manual that is available to everyone online and report back? ... is that the idea? I found this in less than one minute. I looked at the pretty pages with the graphical layout of the CP5, located those three big knobs, saw a circle with the number 19 next to those knobs, went to the next page where that circle with the number 19 was located, saw in parentheses page 27 and then went to page 27. It could not have been easier. CP5\CP50 Owner's Manual. page 27 Using Knobs 1 to 3 to Change the SoundIs it necessary that I continue copying the information word for word or do you think I've helped enough?
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Whoever said piano players could be testy?
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Whoever said piano players could be testy? In the other keyboard forum we had Sven Golly who admonished those who asked questions without first having used Google. I'm willing to help people to think for themselves but really don't like to spoon feed information that can be easily found.
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Does somebody need a hug?
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I'm willing to help people to think for themselves but really don't like to spoon feed information that can be easily found. Another strategy could be to simply not post a reply.
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Another strategy could be to simply not post a reply.Where's the fun in that.
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Where's the fun in that. +1 Some things never change...I love it!
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I'm willing to help people to think for themselves but really don't like to spoon feed information that can be easily found. Another strategy could be to simply not post a reply. Yes, but why pass up a chance to show everyone just how helpful he isn't. Snazzy
Semper Gumby: Always flexible \:^)
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CP5\CP50 Owner's Manual. page 27 Using Knobs 1 to 3 to Change the Sound Ok. Those assignments are to control internal sound parameters only. Here's a quote from the section you referenced: In specific terms, parameters from each Pre-Amplifier block, from each Modulation Effect block, from each Power-Amplifier / Compressor block (CP5 only), and from the Reverb block can be freely assigned to these knobs; furthermore, each Performance can have a different set of assignments
So unfortunately it looks like I was right - there are no knobs or other attenuators anywhere on the keyboard that will control the volume of external sound generators. The only option is to buy a foot pedal, and control external midi volume that way. Regarding the whole spoon feed a newb thing - I wonder what it would be like if teachers answered their student's questions with angry retorts like that. It has always seemed strange to me that people get angry when someone asks honest questions, looking for information and help. Isn't that a large reason for the existence of forums? It's interesting - from my experience on this and other forums, the most knowledgeable people are usually the most patient, and the most willing to give specific helpful replies. Their help and the information they've shared have been crucial for me being able to understand complicated recording and sound issues, and I am seriously in their debt. Maybe that's why I try to never put anyone down for asking questions and seeking information. We're all trying to learn something new. No one knows everything. Mychal
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I found the following rather quickly by searching the word MIDI in the index of the owner's manual. Will any of the following help you?
From page 45 of the owner's manual (Integrating with Other MIDI Devices) ...
Integrating with Other MIDI Devices You can connect your stage piano's MIDI [IN], [OUT], and [THRU] connectors to MIDI connectors on other MIDI devices using standard MIDI cables (sold separately). The following section will describe how external MIDI devices connected in this way can then be controlled from your CP5 or CP50.
NOTE Even when your CP5 or CP50 is connected to other MIDI devices, you will need to connect a stereo system or an amplifier and speakers in order to hear the sound produced. Alternatively, a pair of headphones can always be connected for direct monitoring of the stage piano. For details, see Connecting Audio Equipment from the Setting Up section (page 15).
NOTICE Whenever connecting external audio equipment, ensure that the volume on all devices is turned fully down. From this condition, start by turning on devices that send MIDI data, then turn on those that receive MIDI data, and finally, turn on any external audio equipment (with amplifiers or powered speakers being turned on last of all). Meanwhile, when shutting down your system, start by turning the volume of all devices fully down, and then turn off devices in the reverse order to turning on.
Playing a Synth from the Stage Piano When your CP5 or CP50 is connected to a MIDI instrument such as a synthesizer or tone-generator module and settings are configured as described below, you can use the stage piano’s keyboard to play the other instrument.
With this type of connection, the same MIDI channel must be used by the stage piano and the other instrument to send and receive, respectively. While your stage piano’s keyboard can be used in this type of situation to play its own sounds and those of the other instrument simultaneously, it is also possible to assign individual sounds to the keyboard in a number of different ways so that they can be played independently. The procedure for doing so is described below. If, however, you do not wish to split up the keyboard in this way, you can instead navigate to Page 5 of the Utility screen (See the Reference Manual pdf document for more details) after completing Steps 1 and 2 below and set the MIDI channel for transmission so as to match the other instrument’s receive channel.
1 Navigate to Page 6 of the Utility screen by pressing the [UTILITY] button, and if necessary, the [6] button. (See the Reference Manual pdf document for more details.)
2 Turn Knob 2 to set the In/Out parameter (MIDI In/Out) to “MIDIâ€. With this setting, MIDI data will be exchanged with other devices via the stage piano’s MIDI connectors (instead of via USB).
3 Press the [STORE] button to store this setting. Utility settings are stored within User Memory as part of the stage piano’s system settings. For details regarding the storing procedure, refer to page 50.
4 Press the [EXIT] button to return to the Performance screen, and then select the Performance you would like to play (page 23).
5 Navigate to Page 2 of the Common Settings screen by pressing the [COMMON] button, and if necessary, the [2] button.
6 Press Knob 3 (ZoneEdit [PUSH]). The Zone Edit screen will be displayed.
7 Turn Knob 3 to set the ZoneSw parameter
________________________________________________________
Regarding the whole spoon feed a newb thing - I wonder what it would be like if teachers answered their student's questions with angry retorts like that. It has always seemed strange to me that people get angry when someone asks honest questions, looking for information and help. Isn't that a large reason for the existence of forums?
The primary reason online forums exist is so people can receive free information while other folks do the research. That's what it comes down to - free information.
I'm wondering what part of ... If I could assign those three black knobs to control external midi volume, that might work for me. But from what I read in the manuals, I don't see any reference to assigning anything to them. ... anything I misunderstood.
Peakly, you changed the subject of the thread that I started. Some folks consider that rude, but that's not the issue here ... I'm just mentioning that in passing. I read your statement that those knobs could not be assigned to anything and being rather dense I took that literally. Have you looked at the Reference manual as well? ... there appears to be more information there since it was mentioned in what I copied and pasted from the Owner's Manual.
It's interesting - from my experience on this and other forums, the most knowledgeable people are usually the most patient, and the most willing to give specific helpful replies.
That may be, but I'm a very literal person and I took your statement literally. I can't read minds, I can only read your statements.
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A soft answer turneth away wrath. Give a man a fish/ teach a man to use the manual and he'll eat forever. Etc. Do we want a thread to go into a death spiral, or do we want to find out something useful... again, etc. We can invest our energy into whichever we want.
Searching on the right keyword... all right, I get it now.
I bought a different instrument, but I, too, am at the stage of trying to make sense of a manual dictated by a Japanese-speaking engineer to a writer (who doesn't necessarily play keyboards nor speak English as his first language). What can you say--- the learning curve is demanding, takes time to sink in, is frustrating. It's ok; we'll get there.
But what is the big problem with buying a foot pedal controller? It doesn't take a second mortgage. I've had some trouble finding one to buy locally... but, if I want to use the design features, gotta have the stuff.
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I bought a different instrument, but I, too, am at the stage of trying to make sense of a manual dictated by a Japanese-speaking engineer to a writer (who doesn't necessarily play keyboards nor speak English as his first language). What can you say--- the learning curve is demanding, takes time to sink in, is frustrating. It's ok; we'll get there.
I think it's worth mentioning that I initially skimmed over the pages in my CP5 manual where there were pages of graphical information ... button 1 turns the instrument On\Off etc. I skimmed that not realizing that Part buttons function differently if you press them down for a second rather than just switching them on or off. That was clearly mentioned in the Owner's manual but I glossed over that since I am an expert in knowing what is important and what is not important.
My initial reaction to working with the CP5 was frustration; and I really thought I had made a big mistake by selling my CP300 and buying this CP5. All the information you need is in the manual but one really has to read everything. I would have included a DVD, a one on one instructional manual to cover the basics, but that's just me.
I still think my old Roland A80 was a fantastic controller ... with a great action as well. Those days are over, sadly ... and time moves on.
Yamaha AvantGrand N1X | Roland RD 2000 | Sennheiser HD 598 headphones
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Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 2
Junior Member
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Junior Member
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 2 |
one of the downfalls of the CP-33 for me is that you can't control the volume of an external module independently of the CP 33 built in sounds..Like say you wanted to use the CP 33 piano as your piano sound and have the strings coming form a Roland XV 5080 and control the strings via a foot pedal while playing two hands on the piano during a ballad...can't be done.. the piano sound will also go down with the strings.. i like to bring the strings in to help build some dynamics in the songs....i called Yamaha tech on this one..major blunder in my book of something that was being touted as a controller..and the other issue is the way the different sample layers still jump out in obvious steps to me..I own a C7 and the action on the CP 33 is definetly heavier that my C7 (which is only 6 years old)..try playing say a block chord doing eight notes for entire song or some boogie woogie left hand parts and the extra weight becomes obvious..for jazz or classical it feels nice though..still looking forward to trying the CP5
yeayeayea
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Piano
by Gino2 - 04/17/24 02:34 PM
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Piano
by Gino2 - 04/17/24 02:23 PM
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