Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Pianist Corner Rachmaninov Concerti vs. Beethoven Concerti

I'm listening to the QEC right now with Jung Hai Park playing Rach 3. I can't seem to find this piece exciting or very moving anymore. The same thing a long time ago for for Rach #2. I remember hearing this played at Carnegie Hall(andsnes??) many years ago and the whole time thinking how much more I liked the Beethoven Concerti.

I feel like I would virtually never tire of the Beethoven but Rachmaninov(especially Concerti 1 and 2) don't do much for me anymore. Part of the problem may that they are played so much, especially in competitions.

I've heard two live all Rachmaninov recitals by very good pianists and found it too much Rachmaninov for me. I felt like he wasn't quite good enough for a entire recitals worth of music.

I know there are many Rach super fans at PW, but there may also be people who think "Sure, Beethoven is so much greater I can see why you feel the way you do." And there may be many people in between.

Thoughts?

I'm with you. There was a time that I was buying every CD of Rachmaninoff concertos I could find, but now I want a break! As I said in another thread, I would play all five Beethovens before so much as running through another Rachmaninoff. They're so lucid, finely tuned, and brilliantly written.

just heard Rachmaninov's 3rd concerto in Brussels, it was'nt bad, but it was, well, another one, I'm sure one would impress the jurors immensly with a well played Schumann or Beethoven 3/4, we'll hear so many Prokofiev 2nds, pfff

The Beethoven concerti have something about them that clears the mind. It's like a clear-cut relief chiseled in granite. It is hard getting weary of them indeed. Richard Strauss in turn called Rachmaninoff's music "romantische Jauche" ("romantic manure"). This is highly unfair, of course, but it might help support your argument here. I love especially R.'s second piano concerto, even though it is laden with rich decor. Technically, the R. is more demanding for sure. Musically speaking, I am not so sure. The absence of unnecessary pianistic adornments is what makes Beethoven so concise. Beethoven loves the piano but he gets never carried away with fluff. He is a very careful craftsman. That kind of focus in his thematic work is absolutely stunning. Having said this, his no. 1 is probably my least favorite whereas I like nos. 4 and 5 best. But then I also like nos. 3 and 2 (2 not as much as 3, though). Now, you got me thinking again... Did I say no. 1 is my least favorite? Mmmmhhh... I do love it, too. Just not as much as 4 and 5.

Well it's personal. You can't really say one is better than the other.. that's kind of closed-minded.

If I had one composer to perform for the rest of my life, it would be Rachmaninoff. I love Beethoven, especially listening to him, but there's something entirely different about Rachmaninoff, and it is SO SO SO much more satisfying to play. Or to analyze! Especially to see how he structures everything and where themes come from, or when he uses chords that are just out of this world. His music does something for me no other composer has been able to.

Beethoven ... I love, but it is absolutely the most difficult composer for me to play, perhaps excluding Bach. And there's no "fun", if I can put it like that, in performing something that terrifies you.

As for getting tired of one or the other, I listen to the Rach 2nd symphony at least once a week, complete, and never get tired of it. I wish more people appreciated his symphonic works.

The concerti? Can't really be compared, but I'd pick any of the Rach over Beethoven any day, to play especially. Love the Beethovens, just not as much..

And of course all of what I said is personal. Just please, don't say Rachmaninoff is not a good composer because I will get very very mad... =P

The Beethoven vs. Rachmaninoff or Rubinstein vs. Horowitz or Chopin vs. Liszt really comes down to ones own musical aesthetic, doesn't it? For some that aesthetic may be more strongly biased towards form and structure, for others it may be sonority and texture, and for yet others it might be the choice between playability and "listenability" and for still others it may be between perceived intellectual as opposed to emotional content.

I wouldn't want to be without either Beethoven or Rachmaninoff concerti. That may not have been precisely the question, but it seems that one was asked to choose one over the other. I wouldn't want to have to make such a choice.

Regards,

It's funny because I dozed off a little at around the half of the first movement of that performance ; I think Sunwoo's performance is to blame (Park Jong-hai was the one before I think, he played Prokofiev), it didn't sound that exciting to me (though I was tired after a dayful of practice.) I'll probably go out on a limb here, but his Beethoven sonata felt the same ; without real strength or passion. Overall I felt it could have been much more cantabile. Especially since someone played the Hammerklavier yesterday...

While we're still on the topic of Rach concertos, Bozhanov is playing Rach2 again ; I wasn't much a fan of his Cliburn interpretation, so I wonder how he will play it this time.
Also, this competition has quite a variety of different concerto ; Liszt's, Prok's, Rach's, Brahms'... Great fun.

I don't find Rachmaninov concertos old and tired, especially the second (and the first is hardly a popular piece.) I think it's really a matter of playing through them yourself ; once you've done it, you'll just never let it go (You'll end up suddenly hearing them while shopping, it gets me a little schizophrenic.) I feel the same with Scriabin's sonatas / fantasie in Bm, or a few of Prokofiev's sonatas (most notably the 8th), I'm only bored when they're not played well. Otherwise, I enjoy every note of them

I wish all these guys took after Mozart and wrote many more piano concertos so there are more to choose from.

I don't have any concerto that really sticks out to me; they're all great. I can listen to both Beethoven's and Rachmaninoff's just fine.