CyberGene, what do you think of the SN / non-SN comparison in this video? The reverb and stereo separation seem much better matched. I can hear the non-SN low notes looping at the end of some of the pieces, and I still hear that "chiff" noise on loud SN mids (around 2:30):

Pedies, can you give more exact dollar amounts? Is that a demo or a virgin unit? Whereabouts was the Sam Ash?

My understanding is the the RD-700GXF is a RD-700GX plus the Supernatural expansion board (preinstalled). Why would there be any difference in price between the two? You end up with EXACTLY the same thing, in each case. (While I'm at it, why bother with the RD-700GXF designation? Makes no sense. It's a RD-700GX with an expansion board. Several boards are available, and I believe you can install two of them at the same time).

Lawrence

Yes, I agree it's kind of stupid, but they are apparently phasing out the GX. If we end up with a decent discount on the SN board I won't complain too much though.

The SuperNatural is better, having softer and woodier pianissimos but now I realize that what you call "chiff" notes is the same what I don't like in the Roland piano sound, I can't describe it good enough, my words are like "springy-plastic" feel for the sound. The sound seems to have an artificially rich sound signature and timbre when you play ff and fff, but the amplitude of the sound is not high enough to correspond realistically to the rich harmonics of the timbre and the feeling is one of unrealistic timbre jumping, which you can't do on a real piano. On a real piano when you bang on the keys, the amplitude is also high. Here only the timbre changes but the amplitude is less than expected. That's my feel but I am not sure if I can explain it correctly.

P.S. Other possible explanation could be that the amplitude on ff and fff is realistic but there is also filter applied which opens the sound too much, enriching it too much... who knows.

When is the RD-700GXF going to be available? If you look at ZZOUNDS, for example, their photo of the RD-700GXF is actually of the RD-700GX.
( http://www.zzounds.com/item--ROLRD700GXF )

"Phasing out the GX" implies a new board. I'm confused!

I've posted this once before, but I'll do so again with the best of intentions, so as to help anyone trying to make a decision. I have a friend that works at Sweetwater(Tony Dayton).

We talked on the phone about a week to 10 days ago about a variety of things concerning musical equipment,ect. While we were talking, I asked him about the RD700GX-GXF, and what the story was on this.

It just so happened that their Roland representatives had held a meeting with them the previous day in their building, about NAMM 2010 gear, and upcoming new gear from Roland. They told Tony, and the other sales reps that the coming GXF was merely the GX with the SN kit preinstalled from the factory.

I have absolutely no reason to doubt what Tony said, as he is a very solid dude who takes his job quite seriously. I asked him about the difference in the specs(weight,ect) that has been listed on a few sites, and he told me that this had to be just a case of misinformation, and he didn't know why this information was listed as such.

I honestly can't see Roland revamping the whole keyboard just to feature the SN upgrade anyway; which is really all that's being touted for the GXF.

Again; this is second hand information(I didn't talk to Roland), but I consider it as close to straight from the horses mouth as you can get.
John Sr.

Well, adding the S/N board and changing the keybed to PHA-III would make sense, and perhaps account for the weight change.

The problem is that it appears that no one from Roland is DIRECTLY providing this information, i.e. in the form of a press release or info provided on an official Roland website. Anything that I've heard or read is hearsay or conjecture. I'd like to know the facts before I pull the trigger. (Also interesting to note that there is no mention of the RD-700GXF on the Sweetwater website.)

CyberGene, have you listened to any of the SN audio samples at the Roland US web site?

http://www.rolandus.com/products/productdetails.php?ProductId=1055

Click on the "audio" button underneath the changing image. I don't hear what I call the "chiff" sound there, which leads me to believe it is a YouTube video / audio compression artifact.

The Roland audio samples sound to me rather compressed. The dynamic range for the HP-307 and RD-700GX(F) are both 47dB in the DPBSD test (somewhere in the middle range of DPs) so perhaps they applied compression after the fact?

Its hard to say the sound is not good for such a beautiful music! However maybe it's just my personal preference or I have got tired by the original instrument sampled (I believe it's Steinway used in Roland pianos) but what I need is a fuller, woodier, even imperfect piano sound. This one is too clean, too sterile, too perfect, I can't explain why. Yet I am sure that sound will appeal to many people and will not disappoint them in any way. By the way I have similar objections to the Kawai CA-63 sound when listening to the demos, but when I receive it I will know better. (Am I spoiled by Ivory? I love so much the Italian and the Steinway!)

I think it's a little odd too that the online photos at retailers show the GX picture for the GXF. Perhaps Roland won't be changing the paint job? Whether slapping in an expansion board is a valid model change or not is debatable.

I think Roland knows they have breakthrough technology, and are beavering away putting it in all their mid and high level products. In that light the GXF is something of a hack, though a necessary one to get the SN sound in their existing high end stage piano form factor.

The RD-700GX was apparently introduced at the beginning of 2008 (post-WNAMM I assume):
http://www.rolandus.com/corporate/press_releases/article.php?ArticleId=348&tab=2008

My fear is that it is nearing the end of it's life, the next big thing is waiting in the wings, and I'd end up feeling like a chump if I bought anything now. Then again, Roland's engineers must be rather busy revamping all of the older lines with SN, so maybe the next gen stage piano is years off?

If the GXF contained the PHAIII keys, then whether to buy anything right now or not would be a much easier decision. As it is I'm on the fence, though actually demoing one will no doubt nudge me one way or the other. None in our local stores yet.

Online retailers often use the only graphics they have on hand to use on their website when advertising the ability to pre-order new models. I wouldn't read much into that.

I agree on your point that Roland sees they have a competitive advantage with their current sound engine and are rushing to inject their high end products with the new serum. The more information we get on the CP line make it sound like Yamaha rushed putting their offer together in a distinctly ho-hum and reactive fashion rather than proactive.

I have been waiting to buy something for several years, but because of the speed with which the digital piano market is finally starting to move and how competition is hotting up I have continually found more reasons to wait than reasons to buy. I am glad I didn't spend money on a HP-207 or a CA-71. Who can say what the best moment is to step in? In general, I try to buy the previous generation technology at a discount in computers and consumer electronics, especially if the new generation of a given model is more about putting a "new & improved" sticker on the box than real step wise improvements in performance. The RD-700GX with SN card sold at a genuinely steep discount would fit my general purchasing profile and I can understand your temptation. (Are there really good deals out there though?)

I can't imagine Roland not putting both the SN sound and the PHA-III keyboard into the top of the stage slab line RD700GXF the same way that they are putting both into the LX-10F upright style cabinet model. Increasingly the VPiano seems to play more of a brand image and pricing umbrella function than to be really something people buy. The two stores here in town both report having sold exactly: zero. So, if Roland is going to profit from having a superior performing board, then they are going to actually have to put it into products that are priced to sell.

I'm sure there are EP players out there that are ecstatic with the latest trio of CPs, but for many of us looking for a groundbreaking AP patch they turned out to be something of a dud. And changing the voice on them stops the sound - even our lowly P120 doesn't misbehave like that. Why is it one step up two steps back with these basic features?


I'm kind of hoping there will be a paint job change on the RD-700GXF, as that could lead to dealers dumping the GX at a steep discount, and allow us DIY types to do the upgrade ourselves and perhaps keep some extra change in our pockets.


On another note, I was looking at some Fantom G videos yesterday. The big color screen is nice, but all of the built-in PC connectivity kind of bothers me because PC music software standards are some majorly shifting sands. It makes me wonder if high end DPs with simple controls like the RD-700GX are on their way out, with big glitzy DP/PC "solutions" taking their place. I hope not.

Dewster,
The Fantom G is a workstation though, and not just a stage piano. I thought about buying the F-G at first, but I bought the Juno-G for workstation/synth capabilities, with the intentions of buying a nice stage piano with a weighted keybed later, which is what I did buying the 700gx. I wish I could have afforded both the F-G and the 700gx. To me, I would have had the best of both worlds then(as far as Roland products go) IMHO.
JOhn

Well you do get a fancy superNATURAL sticker that you are free to adhere to any location on you GX that you like.

Curt

I want something permanently painted on every GXF that will drive the street price of the GX into the dirt. Though if the sticker looks anything like theJourney's suggestion, maybe that would work too.

I see that Sweetwater finally has the GXF listed, they're selling it for $2799. No picture, and none in stock until June 6:

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/RD700GXF/

I doubt the price of the old RD700GX will ever be lower than the price of the FP-7. I notice the RD700 sells now for $2K at guitar center. With the fp7 at $1,800 there is not much room to go lower.

Are you talking about the older RD700, or the RD700SX at $2k? Last time I checked, the GX was no less than $2500.

http://www.guitarcenter.com/Roland-RD-700GX-Package-797167-i1421549.gc

If you've seen the GX at around $2k at GC, please let us know at which GC.

ChrisA, you say you've seen the RD700GX for $2K at Guitar Center? That seems way low to me. Their on-line price is about the same as everyone else ~$2500.

Are you sure you aren't confusing it with the RD700SX? That keyboard sells for ~$2k.

[edit]pianodilemma beat me to the skepticism...

What pedal would you guys recommend to get with this keyboard?

I've always heard Yamaha's pedals have better build quality. Would Yamaha FC3 work on the RD700GX(F)? Roland DP10 and DR8 aren't getting the best reviews...

What pedal would you guys use? This is my first time buying digital piano so any help would be great.

P.S. I want a pedal that emulates acoustic piano pedal as close as possible. (continuous)

Thanks

The RD-700GX comes with a damper pedal.

I'm STILL waiting for the SuperNatural Piano kit. The store cannot provide any ETA, which is unusual - at least for them. I guess Roland is jamming them in RD-700GX keyboards and calling them RD-700GXF, so perhaps stock on the boards is limited? I have my RD for 30 days before having to return it for full refund. I'd certainly like at least some of the 30 days to be spent with the expansion board installed.

I STILL don't have a definitive answer about is the RD-700GXF different than the RD-700GX + SuperNatural Piano Kit? For me, definitive is direct from Roland. It really makes we wonder when I read that RD-700GX's are being discontinued and heavily discounted. Why would they be? Makes no sense, unless the "F" has other new features that apparently are secret, at this point. Something is not right here.

Lawrence

Yes, I'm inclined to agree.

The 700GX with the SuperNatural kit built in is listed on the Roland website as a 700GX, not a GXF. Not sure where the "GXF" name came from. Just a SKU for sellers to use?

I'm hoping this all means they are trying to clear out their stock to make room for an actual 700GX/F replacement.

Why does Sweetwater, THE premiere US storefront, not have a picture for the GXF even though they now carry it (but not in stock)?

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/RD700GXF

Roland doesn't even have a press release for this product. Is it so minor it doesn't need one?

Why it so hard to photograph? Perhaps it is the Big Foot of DPs...

My first order 3 weeks ago was from ZZ Sounds who sent me a pretty box that was sealed and had everything in but the card! I returned it for a refund and order another one but was then told it would take until mid June to receive it. I then cancelled my order and ordered from Sweetwater. They had it in stock last week. FedX saids it will be here by Tuesday of next week.

You wouldn't be hoping this if you had just purchased a RD-700GX . . .

are we all the victim of the marketing scheme I am wondering?