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Hello, I have a question concerning this time signature : Two Step. I made the same question on ABF but seems that no one there is able to answer until now. So, sorry for duplicate the post!

I came across a fairly unknown ragtime piece from Arthur Marshall, a Scott Joplin's colaborator in two of his ragtime pieces.

Well, I noticed this tempo mark : two step. I imagine it is something near to a moderato time because the introduction is marked as moderato. I cannot say whether it is more or less faster than an average moderato ( 80 ~ 90 BPM).

He's the link to the score:

http://ucblibraries.colorado.edu/cgi-bin/sheetmusic.pl?RagKinklets&Rag&2

ragtimes are relatively slow

so?

A Two Step is slightly slower than other Rags but we don't know an exact metronome marking. Easy Winners is a two step and I like to play that about 104 BPM, but that's my personal preference, I've heard it done faster by others.

Tank you Ray!

The only piano version of this piece on youtube is this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-NgsVACWgOQ

It is slower than 100 bpm, moderato tempo (and it is using pedal, so I don't know about the intention of fidelity of the performer since the is no pedal marks on the original score).

I like this rag slow, it brings up a nostalgic mood because the harmony with the use of the pedal, but I don't know if it is "correct"...

I'd like to think there's no one correct tempo. True, ragtime is "relatively slow," or, as Joplin says, "should never be played fast." But relative to what, and how fast is fast?

Ragtime generally is happy music, so a brisk tempo suits it best, but even if I were in a bordello where there were other, more intense, distractions, I wouldn't want to hear an evening of music played at the same tempo for hours on end. Each piece has its own character and demands its own treatment.

Performing is a whole lot more than doing the best you can to follow the composer's intentions, tempo-wise or otherwise. True, sometimes that may be the best way to get a piece across, but your duty as a performer is also to be true to yourself. If you are convinced by your own playing, it will carry conviction to the listener.

David

I think Joplin's statement has been misinterpreted by many amateurs or conveniently used especially by beginners. I've read that Jopin only said this because the prevailing tempos used by performers tended to be ultra fast. More importantly, if one listens to Youtube performances of Jopin, Dick Hyman, Adam Swanson and most other professional performers, the tempos chosen are far faster than most intermediate level MLRag players would like to use.

I've just finished Maple Leaf Rag with my teacher, she says play it like a march. It's really down to taste I guess... some people like to play it faster. Scott Joplin always put 'It's wrong to play Rags fast'.

How does your tempo compare to these performances?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pMAtL7n_-rc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RISjp-d38-0

Did you know that Joplin composed a symphony and a piano concerto? Unfortunately, they were never published and the manuscripts are lost. He also composed an opera, "Treemonisha, and was posthumously awarded a Pulitzer Prize.

Treemonisha is great, Aunt Dinah blows the horn!, his little Mexican Serenade 'Solace' is a gem, in general he always puts 'not fast' and more moderato-like tempi above the scores, probabely good taste is, as always, the best guide.

With ragtime, I feel there is a tempo sweet-spot - fast enough that the piece moves along nicely, but not so fast that the syncopations are lost. As soon as the tempo is taken too fast, it becomes all about the player showing-off, and not the piece of music itself.

Wow, Ben! Exactly!!!

Pianoloverus--the YouTube videos you linked to are interesting. I like the tempos of the Maple Leaf Rag there. The roll played by Scott Joplin himself is particularly telling! I hope the person who recorded it set the player piano at the right tempo!

In "Weeping Willow," I let my feel for the third section dictate the tempo of the rest of the piece. That third section (after the "recapitulation"(?)) is very nostalgic, and needs to be played quite moderately in order to sing properly, IMO. So, when I practice it, I play that section first to set the tempo, then go to the beginning and play it through.

I'm curious about "Swipesy." The tempo is marked "slow," and yet, the cake walk was a kind of parody dance processional. I feel this one moderato as well...

???

--Andy

Joshua Rifkin recorded a number of Joplin rags in the early 1970s. I've always felt that his tempos were right on the mark. They in fact did seem to hit the sweet spot of "not too fast"

Here is a link to Amazon.com with samples from his album:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/recsradio/...n_dp_img?ie=UTF8&refTagSuffix=dp_img

Hop

Rivkin's MPR is considerably slower than Joplin's own performance. Always possible that there's something wrong with that recording but IMO that's quite unlikely?

Also, Rivkin's performance is musch slower than the ones by Adam Swanson and Dick Hyman. Neither of those great performers is at the point where they have to play anything fast just for the sake of doing so.

I think Rifkin's interpretation is great! You cannot tell at what speed joplin used to play based on those piano rolls.

I don't think rifkin's Elite Syncopations, for instance, is slow at all. I do think that his Maple Leaf Rag could be a bit faster, but works pretty well the way he plays it.

About swipesy, I don't know exactly what tempo "slow" means. I think it means nothing faster than 120 bpm, but if the 120 bpm mark is the ceeling, what tempo is the floor?

In a matter of fact, I've listened renditions of swipesy at ~80 bpm (with pedal) and ~150 bpm, both fulfill my taste, because the pianists were so skillful that they could bring the correct feeling according to the tempo, and the accuracy and clearness was great, so all depends on the pianist.

My teacher told me once that people play ragtime music too fast...especially Maple Leaf xD

There must be "something" to indicate the speed the pianist wanted/performed the piece at when he made the piano roll, no? Otherwise, how would anyone know what speed to play any piano roll whether classical or ragtime?

I think many beginners and intermediates play it too slow. Do you think the performances I posted by Joplin and Swanson are too fast?

Yes! Or, more than likely, yes!

Check out the piano roll at the beginning, here. "Tempo 85" it says...

"Do It Again" Youtube at AmpicoGPM's channel