Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 2 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

SEARCH
the Forums & Piano World

This custom search works much better than the built in one and allows searching older posts.
(ad) End Stage Fright
End Stage Fright
(ad) Pianoteq
Latest Pianoteq add-on instrument: U4 upright piano
(ad) Pearl River
Pearl River Pianos
(ad) P B Guide
Acoustic & Digital Piano Guide
PianoSupplies.com (150)
Piano Accessories Music Related Gifts Piano Tuning Equipment Piano Moving Equipment
We now offer Gift Certificates in our online store!
(ad) Estonia Piano
Estonia Piano
Quick Links to Useful Stuff
Our Classified Ads
Find Piano Professionals-

*Piano Dealers - Piano Stores
*Piano Tuners
*Piano Teachers
*Piano Movers
*Piano Restorations
*Piano Manufacturers
*Organs

Quick Links:
*Advertise On Piano World
*Free Piano Newsletter
*Online Piano Recitals
*Piano Recitals Index
*Piano Accessories
* Buying a Piano
*Buying A Acoustic Piano
*Buying a Digital Piano
*Pianos for Sale
*Sell Your Piano
*How Old is My Piano?
*Piano Books
*Piano Art, Pictures, & Posters
*Directory/Site Map
*Contest
*Links
*Virtual Piano
*Music Word Search
*Piano Screen Saver
*Piano Videos
*Virtual Piano Chords
Page 1 of 2 1 2 >
Topic Options
#1447796 - 06/01/10 01:53 AM It is often said that 10,000 hours in a certain profession..
Skorpius Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/17/08
Posts: 751
...makes a person "world-class" in that profession. Is that true with piano?
_________________________
Working On-

Deux Arabesques, Debussy


On Queue-

Danse Russe from Petroushka, Stravinsky
Toccata, Ravel





Top
(ad) Piano & Music Accessories
piano accessories music gifts tuning and moving equipment
#1447801 - 06/01/10 02:15 AM Re: It is often said that 10,000 hours in a certain profession.. [Re: Skorpius]
carey Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/13/05
Posts: 6031
Loc: Phoenix, Arizona
"Quantity" is no guarantee of "quality."
_________________________
YouTube channel - http://www.youtube.com/user/pianophilo

Top
#1447803 - 06/01/10 02:20 AM Re: It is often said that 10,000 hours in a certain profession.. [Re: carey]
Horowitzian Offline
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/18/08
Posts: 8453
Originally Posted By: carey
"Quantity" is no guarantee of "quality."


It is, however, a virtual guarantee that someone is spamming the Pianist Corner with posts of questionable usefulness.
_________________________
Close only counts in horseshoes, hand grenades, and nuclear weapons.

Top
#1447840 - 06/01/10 04:26 AM Re: It is often said that 10,000 hours in a certain profession.. [Re: Horowitzian]
kmd11 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/07/09
Posts: 21
Loc: Providence, RI / Manhattan Bea...
I feel like that number has been tossed around a lot ever since "Outliers" by Malcolm Gladwell came out a couple years ago. He makes a good case that this is a reasonable benchmark (if I remember he used beetles/bill gates/others as examples). But most of his analysis was focussed on people who became very successful by reaching 10,000 hours of "practice" before competitors (bill gates with computer access/programming time, beetles playing 40 hours/week in Germany, conservatory students applying to orchestras, etc.) They then built on this status as "leaders" to expand their successes.

When it comes to music, I'm inclined to think that if someone has actually spent 10,000 hours PRACTICING THOROUGHLY (which I'd say I do 30% of the time I actually spend sitting at the piano) then they would have technical faculties at the professional level for sure. They might not be recognized by "the public" because that's a whole other issue, but they would certainly "pros" and I believe most would be able to do a good job supporting themselves with their musical skills.

Interesting to do the math on this. I for example play an average of 2 hours / day, so:

10000 / (2 hours/day * 365 days/year * 30% "real practice time") = about 46 years ....

but for those who are really serious...

10000 / (6 hours/day * 365 days/year * 70% "real practice time" = around 7 years

seems reasonable what do you guys think?
_________________________
Chopin Ballade 1 (round 3)
Chopin 25.12
Debussy: Estampes

My Recodrings

Top
#1447890 - 06/01/10 08:04 AM Re: It is often said that 10,000 hours in a certain profession.. [Re: kmd11]
EJR Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/20/06
Posts: 861
Loc: Bristol, UK
kmd11,

<<<<<
Re:
10000 / (2 hours/day * 365 days/year * 30% "real practice time") = about 46 years ....

but for those who are really serious...

10000 / (6 hours/day * 365 days/year * 70% "real practice time" = around 7 years
>>>>

If you google this topic, you'll find that it's 10000 hours of "Deliberate Practice", which stresses goal orientation and that correct mentoring and a good teacher are also important.

I think I understand your 30% and 70% reductions of "real practice time", but it could be far worse and without the correct practice technique that satisfies the "Deliberate Practice" specs then in a worse case scenario none of any 'intuitive practice' may count...

I wonder whether there's a minimum time of e.g. 2 hours deliberate practice a day that enables one to "burst the bubble", and in a manner analagous to the old "compound interest" maths graphs (interest on the interest on the interest), enable real progress to kick off and accelerate away?
_________________________


Daily ramblings....

Top
#1448006 - 06/01/10 11:41 AM Re: It is often said that 10,000 hours in a certain profession.. [Re: EJR]
FunkyLlama Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/09/09
Posts: 359
I don't think it's ever true since brain plasticity isn't the same for everyone.

Top
#1448080 - 06/01/10 01:30 PM Re: It is often said that 10,000 hours in a certain profession.. [Re: FunkyLlama]
wouter79 Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/14/10
Posts: 3243
I'm sure almost anyone spending that amount of time on serious playing would be playing like a pro (assuming he has no serious disabilities of course)
_________________________

Top
#1448084 - 06/01/10 01:32 PM Re: It is often said that 10,000 hours in a certain profession.. [Re: kmd11]
Devane Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/09/08
Posts: 401
Loc: Ireland
Originally Posted By: Skorpius
It is often said that 10,000 hours in a certain profession.....makes a person "world-class" in that profession. Is that true with piano?


It isn't true with anything.

"It is often said " A lot of stuff is often said. What sources? Oprah & friends?????

This would be in my sig other than the fact that the Colbert quote is funnier.

"The most common misconception surrounding the 10,000 hours theory (which I cannot take credit for, it comes from Herb Simon, and then elaborated by John Hays) is this: 10,000 hours does not IN ANY WAY guarantee that you will be an expert. Rather, there are no cases of an expert who did it in less. 10,000 hours is, in logical parlance, a NECESSARY but not a SUFFICIENT condition for expertise."
Daniel Levitin

http://www.facebook.com/topic.php?uid=99195416598&topic=10561

This is why we're not tripping over "experts"........we are tripping over self-help nonsense though.

Originally Posted By: kmd11
But most of his analysis was focussed on people who became very successful by reaching 10,000 hours of "practice" before competitors (bill gates with computer access/programming time, beetles playing 40 hours/week in Germany, conservatory students applying to orchestras, etc.) They then built on this status as "leaders" to expand their successes.



Considers the Beatles didn't have his golden number when they broke why make the point? The book borders on numerology except he is only looking for one number. He whips out the 10,000 hour ruler again though later.

There were a few Beatles documentaries last year. I remember this....

"SIR GEORGE MARTIN thought THE BEATLES were "awful" and "crap" when he first heard them perform"
http://www.contactmusic.com/news.nsf/sto...re-crap_1020920

I'm going with George Martin's assessment.

What teenage girls where evaluating how well be played live?

How many hours did Elvis have under his belt before he became famous? Where is Gladwell's ruler now?

When did the Spice Girls do their first live gig? 15 months after their single "Wannabe".


Originally Posted By: kmd11


10000 / (6 hours/day * 365 days/year * 70% "real practice time" = around 7 years

seems reasonable what do you guys think?


There is no such thing as a formula that guarantees success. Unless we are the Sci-fi inspired Borg or Cylons we can't make predictions on transfer rates of data, or the what the data is. Real Practice or Deep Practice is abstract. That leaves too much room for interpretation where you can chat about what Deep Practice can mean.

Neurologists are looking at brain-structures, both MRI and fMRI etc learning the map of the brain and see that people have different set-ups. The same with Genetic research.

On the other hand we have "yes you can" books, that are often said....why does this info spread faster?
_________________________
"4 Chords = Major label record deal"
Ray LaMontagne
https://app.box.com/shared/k1cugq3bog

Top
#1448089 - 06/01/10 01:37 PM Re: It is often said that 10,000 hours in a certain profession.. [Re: Devane]
rocket88 Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/04/06
Posts: 3158
I recently gained a self-taught student in his seventies who has been playing the piano all his life.

Thousands of hours, and he plays atrociously.
_________________________
Music teacher and piano player.

Top
#1448099 - 06/01/10 01:48 PM Re: It is often said that 10,000 hours in a certain profession.. [Re: rocket88]
Horowitzian Offline
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/18/08
Posts: 8453
Originally Posted By: rocket88
I recently gained a self-taught student in his seventies who has been playing the piano all his life.

Thousands of hours, and he plays atrociously.


And old habits die hard...especially for people past 70. Good luck. wink
_________________________
Close only counts in horseshoes, hand grenades, and nuclear weapons.

Top
#1448112 - 06/01/10 02:05 PM Re: It is often said that 10,000 hours in a certain profession.. [Re: rocket88]
AZNpiano Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/07/07
Posts: 5271
Loc: Orange County, CA
Originally Posted By: rocket88
I recently gained a self-taught student in his seventies who has been playing the piano all his life.

Thousands of hours, and he plays atrociously.


whome wow

I can just imagine that!

I heard about the 10,000 hour theory in grad school. Actually, my professor had to explain that it's 10 years of serious, disciplined study that enables a person to become an expert.

That still does not explain why some 9-year-old kids play better than I do.
_________________________
Private Piano Teacher and MTAC Member

Top
#1448115 - 06/01/10 02:08 PM Re: It is often said that 10,000 hours in a certain profession.. [Re: Horowitzian]
piqué Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/15/01
Posts: 5480
i thought in OUTLIERS that gladwell said it is 10,000 hours to mastery. not career success or fame.

they aren't the same thing.

to say that anyone who has mastered a discipline has spent at least 10K hours at it is not at all the same thing as saying that ANYONE who practices for 10K hours will achieve mastery.
_________________________
piqué

now in paperback:


Grand Obsession: A Piano Odyssey

Top
#1448227 - 06/01/10 05:43 PM Re: It is often said that 10,000 hours in a certain profession.. [Re: piqué]
pianoloverus Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/29/01
Posts: 19095
Loc: New York City
The 10,000 hours seems to completely ignore the talent factor. Some people have so little natural ability that no amount of practice would alllow them to reach a particular level or "mastery" or "world class" or anything else.

It's much more reasonable to try and formulate a statement that for most people some minimum of x hours is needed to reach level y.


Edited by pianoloverus (06/01/10 05:49 PM)

Top
#1448236 - 06/01/10 05:53 PM Re: It is often said that 10,000 hours in a certain profession.. [Re: pianoloverus]
wdot Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/28/07
Posts: 726
Loc: South Carolina, USA
Gladwell's analysis seemed to deemphasize talent in favor of practice and opportunity. I quickly grew annoyed with his premise and stopped reading the book. I could "practice" drawing for the next 10,000 hours and never be any good. I don't have the ability. I knew guys in law school who studied 3 times more than the rest of us, but they struggled to make Bs. Everybody doesn't have the same abilities, and it's folly to pretend that they do.

Top
#1448257 - 06/01/10 06:36 PM Re: It is often said that 10,000 hours in a certain profession.. [Re: wdot]
Ludwig van Bilge Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/13/09
Posts: 204
I've never heard such a thing. 10,000 hours is five years of 40 hour weeks. There's folks in every profession with five years of full time experience who are not world class.

Top
#1448290 - 06/01/10 07:38 PM Re: It is often said that 10,000 hours in a certain profession.. [Re: Ludwig van Bilge]
Michael Darnton Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/17/09
Posts: 243
Loc: Chicago
I interpreted the book differently from some of you folks: I read it that IF you're going to be good, 10,000 hours is about how long it takes. For me, that was almost exactly how long it took for me to get to the point where I was skillful enough with my tools to do exactly what I wanted, without hesitation and without mistakes, every time.. . . that is, how long it took to feel "at one" with my tools and the process.
_________________________
http://darntonviolins.com and http://darntonhersh.com

Top
#1448422 - 06/01/10 10:33 PM Re: It is often said that 10,000 hours in a certain profession.. [Re: Michael Darnton]
wdot Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/28/07
Posts: 726
Loc: South Carolina, USA
Originally Posted By: Michael Darnton
I interpreted the book differently from some of you folks: I read it that IF you're going to be good, 10,000 hours is about how long it takes. For me, that was almost exactly how long it took for me to get to the point where I was skillful enough with my tools to do exactly what I wanted, without hesitation and without mistakes, every time.. . . that is, how long it took to feel "at one" with my tools and the process.


I will agree, so long as you change "if you're going to be good" to "if you will ever be good." That will account for differences in innate ability. Which, I still contend, the author discounted without any real basis.

Top
#1448904 - 06/02/10 04:45 PM Re: It is often said that 10,000 hours in a certain profession.. [Re: wdot]
OddTemperament Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/05/07
Posts: 37
Loc: New York, NY
The Gladwell book is a little more subtle than some seem to think. In the section on Noble prize winners, he clearly points out that for scientific achievement there is a minimum "talent" benchmark - an IQ of 130 or so. But after that achievement seems well correlated with hard work.
Those who studied musical achievement didn't address the minimum talent level issue because they were dealing with conservatory students, who had presumably passed the entry level of talent. Once admitted to the Curtis Institute, the theory goes, it is hard work that will get you to the top (together with the with the normal helping of good luck and good looks to ease the way to bookings and recordings and rave reviews).


Edited by OddTemperament (06/02/10 04:49 PM)
_________________________
Don

Yamaha U1
Estonia 168

Top
#1448907 - 06/02/10 04:52 PM Re: It is often said that 10,000 hours in a certain profession.. [Re: OddTemperament]
babama Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/15/08
Posts: 800
Loc: Netherlands
....if everybody had the same level of talent and intelligence..

Top
#1449037 - 06/02/10 07:37 PM Re: It is often said that 10,000 hours in a certain profession.. [Re: OddTemperament]
pianoloverus Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/29/01
Posts: 19095
Loc: New York City
Originally Posted By: OddTemperament

Those who studied musical achievement didn't address the minimum talent level issue because they were dealing with conservatory students, who had presumably passed the entry level of talent. Once admitted to the Curtis Institute, the theory goes, it is hard work that will get you to the top...
I would think that those that get into Curtis would, for the most part, have have stratoshperic levels of talent.

Top
#1449199 - 06/03/10 01:46 AM Re: It is often said that 10,000 hours in a certain profession.. [Re: pianoloverus]
EJR Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/20/06
Posts: 861
Loc: Bristol, UK
For those who may not have read this previously regarding 10000 hours and the role of deliberate practice, one of the key papers is here
_________________________


Daily ramblings....

Top
#1449554 - 06/03/10 03:05 PM Re: It is often said that 10,000 hours in a certain profession.. [Re: EJR]
Palindrome Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/22/01
Posts: 3910
Loc: Chicago, IL USA
Great paper Elwyn!

I'm not sure anyone has mentioned interest. 10,000 hours of forced drudgery won't produce much except memories of being bored. 10,000 hours devoted to something you're interested in will produce results, although having good mentoring will save much trouble (you don't have to re-invent the wheel!) Menachem Pressler pointed this out once in a master class, telling the students that they'd be able to discover the things he was teaching them by themselves, but that his job was to save them time. Perhaps he was a bit too modest, but there is some truth there.
_________________________
There is no end of learning. -Robert Schumann Rules for Young Musicians

Top
#1449675 - 06/03/10 05:53 PM Re: It is often said that 10,000 hours in a certain profession.. [Re: pianoloverus]
OddTemperament Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/05/07
Posts: 37
Loc: New York, NY
Originally Posted By: pianoloverus
Originally Posted By: OddTemperament

Those who studied musical achievement didn't address the minimum talent level issue because they were dealing with conservatory students, who had presumably passed the entry level of talent. Once admitted to the Curtis Institute, the theory goes, it is hard work that will get you to the top...
I would think that those that get into Curtis would, for the most part, have have stratoshperic levels of talent.


I suspect that the theorists in the field would say a minimum level of talent and a stratospheric level of hard work. But the tautologist in me wants to define "minimum level of talent" as that level which makes a kid able to make sounds that he or she is happy to listen to for 8 hours a day. The sounds I made as a kid, for instance, did not invite much repetition.
_________________________
Don

Yamaha U1
Estonia 168

Top
#1449926 - 06/04/10 02:38 AM Re: It is often said that 10,000 hours in a certain profession.. [Re: OddTemperament]
wouter79 Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/14/10
Posts: 3243
"10,000 hours is five years of 40 hour weeks. There's folks in every profession with five years of full time experience who are not world class."

Yes but it's not possible for most people to study seriously and concentrated 40 hours per week. "Full time experience" does not equal serious study.
_________________________

Top
#1449977 - 06/04/10 07:56 AM Re: It is often said that 10,000 hours in a certain profession.. [Re: wouter79]
EJR Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/20/06
Posts: 861
Loc: Bristol, UK
Maybe...

"Talent" = the ability to do the 10,000 hours of deliberate practice by which you acquire expert performance. That is, you can't put a square peg into a round hole.

Another figure in a similar vein, and perhaps more achievable is 1500 hours to become "competent".

I was watching the Christopher Nupen's Evgenny Kissin documentary again recently in which he describes being able to 'play' piano all day but only 'practice' for 1hour when he started, then after several years this increased to up to 4hours of practice. I think this illustrates that practice is very hard work, even when talented.
_________________________


Daily ramblings....

Top
#1450067 - 06/04/10 10:56 AM Re: It is often said that 10,000 hours in a certain profession.. [Re: Horowitzian]
hat Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/29/09
Posts: 244
Loc: In a heap of trouble
Originally Posted By: Horowitzian
Originally Posted By: carey
"Quantity" is no guarantee of "quality."


It is, however, a virtual guarantee that someone is spamming the Pianist Corner with posts of questionable usefulness.


I take offense to this, Mr. Horowitzian. cool
_________________________
Repertoire
John Cage: 4'33"

Top
#1450193 - 06/04/10 02:09 PM Re: It is often said that 10,000 hours in a certain profession.. [Re: Devane]
TimR Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/17/04
Posts: 3000
Loc: Virginia, USA
Originally Posted By: Devane
"The most common misconception surrounding the 10,000 hours theory (which I cannot take credit for, it comes from Herb Simon, and then elaborated by John Hays) is this: 10,000 hours does not IN ANY WAY guarantee that you will be an expert. Rather, there are no cases of an expert who did it in less. 10,000 hours is, in logical parlance, a NECESSARY but not a SUFFICIENT condition for expertise."
Daniel Levitin



I think we might agree with "necessary BUT NOT sufficient" as a matter of common sense.

Gladwell suggested that it might very well be necessary AND sufficient. That's a comforting thought - it might be that most of us possess that minimal level of talent that allows success. He couldn't find anyone who put in the 10,000 hours and failed. Of course as pointed out he was dealing with a truncated distribution. But the same distribution did not produce success with the 3,000 to 5,000 hour students.

If there is anything to the efficiency of practice idea, then the true number is smaller. There is no way all those 10,000 hour students were 100% efficient at practice. Perhaps the real efficiency number for them was 60%, in which case 6,000 hours is the true number. The 3,000 - 5,000 hour students who were in a clearly separated category must have a similar efficiency number, or there wouldn't be a clean cutoff.

I suggest there is also a natural decline in efficiency with age. A ten year old practicing 10,000 hours at 60% effort will succeed where a 50 year old will not. So the true number is 10,000 x (efficiency percentage)x (age correction factor, such that 0 < AGC < 1).
_________________________
gotta go practice

Top
#1450196 - 06/04/10 02:12 PM Re: It is often said that 10,000 hours in a certain profession.. [Re: TimR]
TimR Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/17/04
Posts: 3000
Loc: Virginia, USA
I would also add that Gladwell's birthday analysis is supportive of his "practice trumps talent" thesis.

The hockey and other sports players born early in the year succeeded where the rest did not. That can't be talent - there is no evidence to support talent being affected by the birthday factor. But clearly the exposure to practice and coaching was strongly influenced by the birthdates.
_________________________
gotta go practice

Top
#1450233 - 06/04/10 03:11 PM Re: It is often said that 10,000 hours in a certain profession.. [Re: TimR]
etcetra Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/25/08
Posts: 1446
My feeling is that whenever people mention the 10,000 hour thing, people usually don't take into account the other important factors that people like Gladwell mentions in his book. Practicing 10,000 alone won't do it.

I am reading a book by Joshua Waitzkin called "The Art of Learning", It's interesting how he attribute his success in chess and tachi not on his talent , but his enviroment and his overall attitude in life. I am kind of seeing a common theme between Gladwell and Watizkin... for them successful people have the following things going for them.

1-They happen to have great teacher who taught very strong fundamentals at the beggining stages of their development.

2-They had an enviroment that allowed them to test what they learned on a regular basis, and learn from peers who were better than they are

3-The intensity in which they practiced(and was able to) their craft

4-the ability to detach themselves from their expectations and their need to produce results when they were developing, and not rush through things like most of us do.

5-And most importantly, their willingness to fail and learn from their mistake.

I would say that one's circumstance (and whehter one practices 10,000 hours or not have) a lot to do with your success. If you grow up in a family that focused too much on getting results, it may make it that much harder for you to improve, because you might not know how to cope with and learn from your failures.

I remember reading about how Victor Wooten was playing bass when he was like 3 years old and how music was just a natural part of his life because everyone in his family played music. I think hard work is important, but having the right work ethic, right attitude, and being in the right place at the right time, all these things contribute to one's success.. in some ways whether you practice 10,000 hrs or not is just a natural bi-product of these circumstance. They already had the passion for it when they were young, and they had everything going for them to feed that fire.

For me the bottom line is that the line between talent/enviroment does seem very obscure. do some people have better learning curve than others because they were born into it, or does it have more to do with having the right attitude and support at an earlier age?

It's funny, I just remembered Julia Cameron's saying similar things book "the artist's way".. she talks about how successful people get there because they had the "audacity" to take center stage (regardless of whehter they deserve it or not at that time) and how important it is to practice and create free from expectations and immediate results.


Edited by etcetra (06/04/10 03:28 PM)

Top
#1450275 - 06/04/10 04:13 PM Re: It is often said that 10,000 hours in a certain profession.. [Re: etcetra]
Devane Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/09/08
Posts: 401
Loc: Ireland
Originally Posted By: etcetra


I am reading a book by Joshua Waitzkin called "The Art of Learning", It's interesting how he attribute his success in chess and tachi not on his talent , but his enviroment and his overall attitude in life.






Don't have time at the moment to agree or disagree but I saw the word "chess" .

Horizon - What Makes a Genius?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ROBU2TJxUzk#t=2m43s

People should watch the whole thing. Its pretty balanced. I tend to be more interested on whats going on in your head.
There is another documentary on Susan Polgar the Chess player and her brain scan was very interesting too.

It a bank-holiday weekend and it sunny here cool
_________________________
"4 Chords = Major label record deal"
Ray LaMontagne
https://app.box.com/shared/k1cugq3bog

Top
Page 1 of 2 1 2 >

Moderator:  Brendan, Kreisler 
What's Hot!!
HOW TO POST PICTURES on the Piano Forums
-------------------
Sharing is Caring!
About the Buttons
-------------------
Forums Rules & Help
-------------------
ADVERTISE
on Piano World

The world's most popular piano web site.
-------------------
PIANO BOOKS
Interesting books about the piano, pianists, piano history, biographies, memoirs and more!
(125ad) Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
Sheet Music
(PW is an affiliate)
Sheet Music Plus Featured Sale
Download & Print Sheet Music Instantly
sheet music search
sheet music search

sheet music search
(ad) HAILUN Pianos
Hailun Pianos - Click for More
(ad) Lindeblad Piano
Lindeblad Piano Restoration
Who's Online
170 registered (accordeur, Akshay, acortot, 36251, 53 invisible), 1705 Guests and 69 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Stats
74206 Members
42 Forums
153503 Topics
2249476 Posts

Max Online: 15252 @ 03/21/10 11:39 PM
New Topics - Multiple Forums
1952 Bechstein Grand Piano - family needs appraisal
by feigede
56 minutes 29 seconds ago
Ruben Schoutrop - Nocturne Op. 55 No. 1 in F Minor
by Ruben1
Today at 05:14 PM
Question about monitor speakers with keyboard
by peabody
Today at 04:00 PM
Disklavier to replace digital piano?
by Big Cheese
Today at 03:42 PM
Happy Birthday TwoSnowflakes
by gooddog
Today at 02:23 PM
(ads by Google)

Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers

 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
| Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World | Donate | Link to Us | Classifieds |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter | Press Room |


copyright 1997 - 2014 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission