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#360072 - 04/28/03 06:59 PM Learning... yes. Learning
Anonymous
Unregistered


Hi! Intrigued by the subject?

Well, here goes.

I have a teacher, a great teacher. With that said, I'm still not sure exactly how to approach a piece. As you may have read in my Technique thread, I'm obsessed with etudes. Finally going to start with the Chopin etudes now.

Let's take the Op. 10 no. 1 and 2 ones as examples. (The ones I'm starting on today). How exactly would I approach these? A general idea I have is learn them as quickly as possible and then just keep playing them slowly and gradually increase tempo. In other words, after 2 weeks or so when I learn 2 (2 at a time?) I will start two new ones even though I'm not up to speed with the others, but still play the others several times a day... if you know what I mean.

Any ideas on how to approach them in general would be warmly accepted, but even better, how to approach the Op. 10 no. 1 and 2 etudes.

Thanks,

B-

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#360073 - 04/28/03 08:09 PM Re: Learning... yes. Learning
Bernard Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/06/01
Posts: 3857
Loc: North Groton, NH
 Quote:
I have a teacher, a great teacher. With that said, I'm still not sure exactly how to approach a piece.
BeePhlatMinor, I must have missed some other posts of yours but I do not see how these two sentences go together.
_________________________
"Hunger for growth will come to you in the form of a problem." -- unknown

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#360074 - 04/29/03 04:03 PM Re: Learning... yes. Learning
Phlebas Offline


Registered: 01/02/03
Posts: 4654
Loc: New York City
The best person to provide guidance on how to approach learning a piece is your teacher. Since you have a great one, you should be in good hands.
That said, learning the Chopin etudes in order - i.e. op10#1, then op10#2, then #3, etc. - does not make much sense. Some of the etudes are much more difficult than others. Op. 10 nos 1 and 2 are by no means the easiest ones. I would discuss with your teacher which ones might be the most appropriate for you to work on at your current level.
Also, and I know you did not exactly say this, the object is not to learn them quickly. The idea is to solve the technical problems the pieces present, which can take a long time. When I hear a beautiful performance of one of the Etudes - or any other piece for that matter - I could care less how long it took the performer to learn it.

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#360075 - 04/29/03 04:49 PM Re: Learning... yes. Learning
Praetorian_AD Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/24/01
Posts: 717
Loc: England
I would start with Op. 10 no 3, and move through the 'easier' etudes, defintely, with maybe Op. 25 No. 7 next. No question about it, if you're really serious about learning all of them.

Peter

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#1446860 - 05/30/10 07:52 PM Re: Learning... yes. Learning [Re: Praetorian_AD]
dolce sfogato Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/29/10
Posts: 2667
Loc: Netherlands
Hahaha, the biggest challenge any pianist, and I mean ANY, can face is to play op.10 1/2, these are the most horrific problems a pianist can confront him/herself with, especially when having to play them the one after the other, op.10/1 stretches your r.h. to the limits, op.10/2 causes your r.h.'s 345 fingers to such an extend that they'll need at least a month's holiday on the Bahama's, this is only stuff for grown-ups, category don't try this at home..
_________________________
Longtemps, je me suis couché de bonne heure, but not anymore!

Mussorgski tableaux d'une exposition/Ravel miroirs

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#1446980 - 05/30/10 10:59 PM Re: Learning... yes. Learning [Re: dolce sfogato]
kmd11 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/07/09
Posts: 21
Loc: Providence, RI / Manhattan Bea...
if you think you can learn ANY chopin etude in 2 weeks (AND THOSE 2 ARE THE HARDEST) you are either (a) so good that you should have no problem coming up with a strategy to learn them, or (b) VERY naive... go play some mozart man
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#1447062 - 05/31/10 02:00 AM Re: Learning... yes. Learning [Re: dolce sfogato]
keyboardklutz Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/21/07
Posts: 10856
Loc: London, UK (though if it's Aug...
Originally Posted By: dolce sfogato
op.10/1 stretches your r.h. to the limits,
does not
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snobbyish, yet maybe helpful.
http://keyboardclass.blogspot.com/


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#1447186 - 05/31/10 09:29 AM Re: Learning... yes. Learning [Re: keyboardklutz]
stores Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/28/09
Posts: 6648
Loc: Here, as opposed to there
Originally Posted By: keyboardklutz
Originally Posted By: dolce sfogato
op.10/1 stretches your r.h. to the limits,
does not


Well...it shouldn't
_________________________

"And if we look at the works of J.S. Bach — a benevolent god to which all musicians should offer a prayer to defend themselves against mediocrity... -Debussy

"It's ok if you disagree with me. I can't force you to be right."

♪ ≠ $


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#1447372 - 05/31/10 02:20 PM Re: Learning... yes. Learning [Re: stores]
Kreisler Offline



Registered: 11/27/02
Posts: 13817
Loc: Iowa City, IA
Some people prefer a methodical way of working through repertoire, others do not. I don't really think this is a question that others can answer for you.
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#1447386 - 05/31/10 02:40 PM Re: Learning... yes. Learning [Re: Kreisler]
A Rebours Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/05/09
Posts: 222
Originally Posted By: Kreisler
Some people prefer a methodical way of working through repertoire, others do not. I don't really think this is a question that others can answer for you.


What are your recommendations for methodically working through the repertoire at the appropriate level for the student?

I am an intermediate piano student who just finished up the 4th year of piano lessons. My teacher is using the Keith Snell graded repertoire books and I will start the 4th level starting with my summer lessons. We have also supplemented this series with books focusing on single composers such as Bach and Mozart that contain graded pieces that start with intermediate level and finish at late intermediate/early advanced pieces.

How would you use single composer volumes to construct a methodical approach where what you learn by studying one particular composer will develop an understanding of a later composer's work and the influences on his/her and so on?

Or how studying Composer A will be beneficial in learning to Play Composer B etc.
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#1447390 - 05/31/10 02:51 PM Re: Learning... yes. Learning [Re: A Rebours]
Skorpius Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/17/08
Posts: 751
I would actually recommend you begin on 10-3 or 10-5...you can't approach all of the etudes the exact same way, it really depends... for 10-5, 10-12, or 25-11 for example, go hands separately, for 10-3, 10-1, or 25-12, though, go both hands extremely slowly...it mostly depends on where the melody is. for just about any technically challenging piece (especially fast ones), a general rule is to be able to play it from start to finish slowly and with few mistakes, and THEN speed up.
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Danse Russe from Petroushka, Stravinsky
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#1447544 - 05/31/10 06:12 PM Re: Learning... yes. Learning [Re: stores]
dolce sfogato Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/29/10
Posts: 2667
Loc: Netherlands
Originally Posted By: stores
Originally Posted By: keyboardklutz
Originally Posted By: dolce sfogato
op.10/1 stretches your r.h. to the limits,
does not
are you some kind of Behemoth?

Well...it shouldn't
it just does, and that is no problem at all, it is it's purpose!
_________________________
Longtemps, je me suis couché de bonne heure, but not anymore!

Mussorgski tableaux d'une exposition/Ravel miroirs

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#1447574 - 05/31/10 06:49 PM Re: Learning... yes. Learning [Re: dolce sfogato]
stores Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/28/09
Posts: 6648
Loc: Here, as opposed to there
It doesn't stretch my hand to the limit and I don't have big hands.
_________________________

"And if we look at the works of J.S. Bach — a benevolent god to which all musicians should offer a prayer to defend themselves against mediocrity... -Debussy

"It's ok if you disagree with me. I can't force you to be right."

♪ ≠ $


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#1447578 - 05/31/10 06:54 PM Re: Learning... yes. Learning [Re: stores]
dolce sfogato Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/29/10
Posts: 2667
Loc: Netherlands
i've never played a piece that just keeps the hand stretching for a tenth that often, and I play this one daily, I use it even as an encore, but seriously, this is the
ETUDE of all études, it's really doing something for, well, stretching/make elastic/train/work out/whatever the right hand!
_________________________
Longtemps, je me suis couché de bonne heure, but not anymore!

Mussorgski tableaux d'une exposition/Ravel miroirs

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#1447790 - 06/01/10 01:38 AM Re: Learning... yes. Learning [Re: dolce sfogato]
keyboardklutz Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/21/07
Posts: 10856
Loc: London, UK (though if it's Aug...
Originally Posted By: dolce sfogato
Originally Posted By: stores
Originally Posted By: keyboardklutz
Originally Posted By: dolce sfogato
op.10/1 stretches your r.h. to the limits,
does not
are you some kind of Behemoth?

Well...it shouldn't
it just does, and that is no problem at all, it is it's purpose!
Here is one of Chopin's pupils - "I am quite aware that it is a generally prevalent error, even in our day, that one can only play this study well when one possesses a very large hand. But this is not the case, only a supple hand is required." i.e. there is no stretch! Do so and you'll end up at a clinic. Here's an interesting thread (of many):
http://www.pianoworld.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/1277916/1.html
_________________________
snobbyish, yet maybe helpful.
http://keyboardclass.blogspot.com/


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#1447807 - 06/01/10 02:26 AM Re: Learning... yes. Learning [Re: keyboardklutz]
Horowitzian Offline
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/18/08
Posts: 8453
Golly! Anyone notice that this thread is all of 7 years old?
_________________________
Close only counts in horseshoes, hand grenades, and nuclear weapons.

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#1447819 - 06/01/10 03:04 AM Re: Learning... yes. Learning [Re: Horowitzian]
wr Offline
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/23/07
Posts: 8025
Originally Posted By: Horowitzian
Golly! Anyone notice that this thread is all of 7 years old?


Not only that, it was fairly lame even when fresh, and it hasn't improved with age.

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