I've updated the Preset List. You can find the URL in the first posting.

Well done, ripe_md

The maximum difference in harmonics with active layer dynamics can be heard when playing Fortissimo and especially in all those cases where the layered voice has a volume balance of (near) equal or greater loudness than the original (single) voice.

Just select a few velocity sensitive dual voice mode patches (i.e. no organ voices) from the presets list that meet the above criteria and I'm sure you'll be able to hear a significant difference when you change the layer dynamics parameter from 1 -> 10. Happy hunting!

Something else: I just noticed that you posted another performance using the Steinway Grand Devotion preset. Excellent Schumann playing style! http://www.youtube.com/user/jasvabe#p/a/u/0/tYg6d7CUHRA

Yep! Great work RipeMD!

Ok TAD thanks for this, I'll try it out!

Thanks for the publicity, glad you enjoy it!
I've deleted my first YT post, didn't enjoy the recording quality with the Zoom H2 close to the piano.
So far I get best results with the direct USB WAV recording method. I don't change anything afterwards, except for Audacity normalizing. Let's say the audio outcome satisfies me for 80%: there is still a lack of transparency and room as compared to the sound I get through my headphones.
The quest for the perfect piano sound is still on!

That's right (also a lack of attack transient definition and bass). The better the headphones, the bigger the sound quality differences with direct USB recording (in its current state). I personally would estimate USB recording at only about half of the original sound quality compared to playing through my Sennheiser HD595 headphones.

Here's a reference page:
http://www.pianoworld.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/1618071/5.html

Just scroll down that page to find more posts discussing the perceived lower sound quality with USB recording.

Hi All - a newbie here who has been lurking for a while...such a great forum!

I hate to shortchange all the hard work the Dutchman has put into this patch list, but I would very much like opinions on which you think are the TOP 3 'MUST-HAVE' PIANO PATCHES.

I ask this because I've just bought a CA63 for my mother as an upgrade to an older Yamaha CLP-130. I want to add a few of these to her piano for her that will wow her (she's a technically challenged senior) and I'll only have a limited amount of time to pop them in for her.

Some variety in you recommendations would be nice (i.e. 3 tasteful differing sounds rather than 3 Steinway variations). Also, she will never be using headphones, so sounds that will work well through the stock speakers are preferred.

Thanks in advance!

Hi Dogbert, don't worry about it, here's a versatile Top 3 example for classical, jazz/pop and ragtime (quite curious about other Top 3 entries):

1. STEINWAY GRAND DEVOTION R2.1 - normal touch edition
2. THE WAY IT IS R1.0 - half open lid
3. PUB PIANO SING-A-LONG R1.0 (Scott Joplin)

By the way, does your mother happen to like harp music too? (there are 8+1 memory slots available in total). This harp preset is supposed to sound like a CD recording from the Sint-Baafs Cathedral in Ghent (Belgium)


HARDCORE HARP MEDITATION R1.0

Dual Voice: Harp, volume 8 + Pick Nylon Gt., volume 2

1 Basic Settings
1 - 3 Tone control: low +6, mid -2, high +1

2 Virtual Technician
2 - 1 Voicing: dynamic
2 - 5 Touch: light

3 Key Settings
3 - 4 Layer dynamics: 9

Reverb: Hall 2

Effects: Delay 3, time 3, depth 4

Thanks for the suggestions Mr. Dutchman! I don't think she'd be all that interested in a Harp patch but I appreciate the thought (more likely some organ patches, since she occasional plays church music, but the built in organ presets are probably already adequate).

I have a question for you: In reviewing past threads on the CA63/93, there was some discussion about the default 'normal' touch setting as being on the sensitive side and that 'heavy' provided a more realistic response. One poster even suggested Kawai change the default setting to heavy. The thread just sort of ended without resolution but I notice that most of your piano patches use normal or even light touch settings. Could you share your thoughts on the touch levels?

Well, i.m.h.o. they are not adequate when just selected from the soundlist (no real presets). You'd better check out the optimised church organs in the Organ section of the CA93/C63 presets list.

Sure, the CA93/CA63 implementation of touch sensitivity is a little more complex than stated in the user manual. Why? Because also the brilliance of the sound is affected at the same time. For example, when you select heavy touch, not only the touch curve changes but also the overall sound gets darker.
Knowing this, you could select normal or light touch to get more brilliance and adjust other parameters like voicing to (at least partly) compensate for the lighter touch. (The MP10 has a separate brilliance parameter, which would come in quite handy so I've requested that towards Kawai for the CA93/CA63 firmware some time ago already).

Very informative response and after reviewing your patches I see that you're working the touch, voicing and tone control to achieve the appropriate brilliance. Thanks!

Let's just not spend 150 grand on a fairly bright grand!


YAMMIE YAMAHA CFIIIS R1.0

Dual Voice: Mellow Grand, volume 5 + Mellow Grand 2, volume 5

1 Basic Settings
1 - 3 Tone control: low +2, mid +1, high -3

2 Virtual Technician
2 - 1 Voicing: dynamic
2 - 2 Damper resonance: 6
2 - 3 String resonance: 10
2 - 4 Key off effect: 6
2 - 5 Touch: normal
2 - 8 Stretch tuning: Wide

3 Key Settings
3 - 4 Layer dynamics: 10

Reverb: Hall 2

Effect: Delay 3, time 2, depth 2

Do you recall this one-liner? It may still take a while, but hold on, following 'the sequence of events', my not so wild guess is that a CA93/CA63 firmware update with new/improved feature(s) is upcoming...

A preset at this price deserves a review!

I've put it in my 2nd slot for a while, it's a very funny experience, like having two completely different piano's at once. Playing at p or pp level, its extremely dark and mellow, when reaching mf and beyond it turns out bright, wide and resonant. Very difficult to master the transition between these two spectrums, for everyday use,mmm...not sure. It's 'another' sound, I'll keep testing it for a while, promising patch!

Is that so? I wonder what the improvements might be...I'm very curious. More preset space??

Thanks, I'll keep updating it for a while...


In other words, it's like trying to manage a Chinese colleague of mine:

Me: "Please confirm that you will do this as agreed."
She: "I will see what I can do."

What happens when you switch from normal touch to light touch? I know it will yield very bright fortissimos (could work on that later), but just focussing on the transition I mean...

I've tried it, better transition, but personally I'm not too keen on any classical piano with 'light touch' settings. It's a completely different story when playing modern stuff, where it's perfectly acceptable or even desired.
My favorite classical piano sounds mellow and woody, like the Steinway or Fazioli when playing pp>p and from mf> resonant,wide, full and bright. The action should be heavy enough to take full advantage of the sophisticated key weighting system of the CA-93/63.
That's why Brutal Bösie and me are still not friends, I can't play with nuances, despite the impressive basses in that patch.
Too loud.
My best friend so far is still the Steinway GD, sometimes it sounds 'off' on some notes (maybe because the guitar layer has some funny slides. Have you tried some solo finger/pick nylon notes, boingg!!?) and it sounds slightly 'phasy' as well. I consider it part of it's personality. The Fazioli is nice, woody but with less personality in the upper register.
The Ambient Steinway is nice as well, but a bit heavy-handed for my taste.
I liked the ExMax in the beginning, but there is a certain hollowness about it when playing live. The Shigeru is too shallow and clangy in the discant, very much sounding like a DP, I'm not too crazy about it anymore.
It's like tasting wines on different days, depends on your mood how you appreciate it.
I'm sure that one day you will come out with the perfect piano, you're almost there, keep searching TAD!!

Interesting comments, thanks.

As you told me, your experience is that the timbre of the Steinway Grand Devotion mellow1 based piano preset is warm and maybe therefore seemingly just so very slightly 'off' sometimes. This is actually considered a big asset, as it delivers a very non-DP like living organic, acoustic grand piano sound! This in strong contrast with the basic concert grand sound, which you personally find "just plain ugly, sterile, without body, like the average Yamaha DP."

Now, let's see what we've got here and throw in a beta with a few careful changes, reflecting the following ideas:

* Even more organic timbre (slightly darker for normal touch, Chopin would love this).
* A TAD deeper acoustic surround presence.
* Remove any occasional small overdrive side-effect some people have experienced (they called this 'phasing'), most likely originating from the EQ boost being handled by the internal compressor/limiter*.
* Improve headphones/recording compatibility (not limited to high-end gear).



STEINWAY GRAND DEVOTION 3.0 BETA

Dual Voice: Mellow Grand, volume 9 + Finger Nylon Gt. (CA93) / Pick Nylon Gt. (CA63/CA93), volume 1

1 Basic Settings
1 - 3 Tone control: low +5, mid +3, high +1

2 Virtual Technician
2 - 1 Voicing: mellow 1
2 - 2 Damper resonance: 10
2 - 3 String resonance: 10
2 - 4 Key off effect: 8
2 - 5 Touch: light (open lid), normal (half open lid), heavy (closed lid)
2 - 8 Stretch tuning: Wide

3 Key Settings
3 - 3 Layer octave: -1
3 - 4 Layer dynamics: 9

Reverb: Hall 2

Effect: Delay 3, time 1, depth 5


*) http://www.pianoworld.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/1482532.html#Post1482532

I want an USB Preset Loader

Here's another update...


YAMMIE YAMAHA CFIIIS R2.0

Dual Voice: Mellow Grand, volume 5 + Mellow Grand 2, volume 5

1 Basic Settings
1 - 3 Tone control: low +2, mid -2, high +2

2 Virtual Technician
2 - 1 Voicing: bright1 (open lid), normal (half open lid), mellow1 (closed lid), mellow2 (hermetically sealed lid)
2 - 2 Damper resonance: 9
2 - 3 String resonance: 9
2 - 4 Key off effect: 6
2 - 5 Touch: normal
2 - 8 Stretch tuning: Wide

3 Key Settings
3 - 4 Layer dynamics: 7

Reverb: Hall 2

Effect: Delay 3, time 2, depth 3

You can remove the Beta-label TAD, as far as I'm concerned, it's an improvement, although minor, you've only changed the tone settings, or did I miss something?
It's slightly more balanced, less distortion through headphones, good Job!

Now here's another piano I can live with: transition between soft and loud are much more in control compared to R.1.0. I don't mind playing with a closed lid, I like the mellow voicing best. The bright voicing is reserved for Coldplay stuff etc...

Well done again TAD, it's about time they build you a statue at "Kawai Square" in Ryuyo, or award you with the 'Blue Ribbon Medal' from the Emperor of Japan!

I wish I wasn't the only reviewer at the moment though, the remarks from Pinipon, Mucci etc. were very valuable at the start of this great thread, where are you hiding guys??

Thanks for your feedback, here's the finetuned final release!
A combination of EQ, layer dynamics and FX were needed to accomplish this, but that's in hindsight because it's all about timbre matching by ear.


STEINWAY GRAND DEVOTION R3.0 - NORMAL TOUCH EDITION

Dual Voice: Mellow Grand, volume 9 + Finger Nylon Gt. (CA93) / Pick Nylon Gt. (CA63/CA93), volume 1

1 Basic Settings
1 - 3 Tone control: low +5, mid +3, high +2

2 Virtual Technician
2 - 1 Voicing: mellow 1
2 - 2 Damper resonance: 10
2 - 3 String resonance: 10
2 - 4 Key off effect: 8
2 - 5 Touch: normal
2 - 8 Stretch tuning: Wide

3 Key Settings
3 - 3 Layer octave: -1
3 - 4 Layer dynamics: 9

Reverb: Hall 2

Effect: Delay 3, time 1, depth 4

STEINWAY GRAND DEVOTION R3.0 - LIGHT TOUCH EDITION

Dual Voice: Mellow Grand, volume 9 + Finger Nylon Gt. (CA93) / Pick Nylon Gt. (CA63/CA93), volume 1

1 Basic Settings
1 - 3 Tone control: low +5, mid 0, high -1

2 Virtual Technician
2 - 1 Voicing: mellow 2
2 - 2 Damper resonance: 10
2 - 3 String resonance: 10
2 - 4 Key off effect: 9
2 - 5 Touch: light
2 - 8 Stretch tuning: Wide

3 Key Settings
3 - 3 Layer octave: -1
3 - 4 Layer dynamics: 9

Reverb: Hall 2

Effect: Delay 3, time 1, depth 4

STEINWAY GRAND DEVOTION R3.0 - HEAVY TOUCH EDITION

Dual Voice: Mellow Grand, volume 9 + Finger Nylon Gt. (CA93) / Pick Nylon Gt. (CA63/CA93), volume 1

1 Basic Settings
1 - 3 Tone control: low +4, mid +2, high +4

2 Virtual Technician
2 - 1 Voicing: normal
2 - 2 Damper resonance: 10
2 - 3 String resonance: 10
2 - 4 Key off effect: 7
2 - 5 Touch: heavy
2 - 8 Stretch tuning: Wide

3 Key Settings
3 - 3 Layer octave: -1
3 - 4 Layer dynamics: 9

Reverb: Hall 2

Effect: Delay 3, time 1, depth 4

I've been away for a while, but now I'm back
Let me try the last patches and I give you me feedback soon.

Since the beginning of this year, most of time I'm using the patch Take the EX to the MAX R1.0 (half open lid version): I think it's a remarkable patch for every style of music, good playability and nice dynamics, deep bass and clear treble...

Welcome back, Pini!

Talking about taking the EX to the Max, Kawai is quite often the winner's choice when it comes to international piano competitions. I'm preparing a special patch that reflects the qualities of the KAWAI EX in a big concert hall. It will be called KAWAI EX - THE WINNER'S CHOICE.

http://www.kawaius.com/main_links/why_kawai/winners_choice_09.html