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#1880841 - 04/16/12 10:28 PM Re: Bug report [Re: TADutchman]
Amateur Jerry Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/01/09
Posts: 65
Loc: Mokena, Illinois
Hi friends,

I tried the following out at home and then went a dealer and compared the in store DP against the actual AP


KAWAI RX-2 BLAK

Dual Voice: Concert Grand, volume 5 / Mellow Grand volume 5

1 Basic Settings
1 - 3 Tone control: Treble Boost

2 Virtual Technician
2 - 1 Voicing: Dynamic
2 - 2 Damper resonance: 5
2 - 3 String resonance: 7
2 - 4 Key off effect: 4
2 - 5 Touch: Heavy
2 - 6 Temperament: Equal
2 - 8 Stretch tuning: Wide

3 Key Settings
3 - 4 Layer dynamics: 10

Reverb: Stage for both external and headphones

Effect: Delay 1, time 5, depth 7


I'd play the DP then play the same on the RX-2. Then I'd record on the DP and listen from a distance. They both sounded the same.
_________________________
Czar

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#1880958 - 04/17/12 06:19 AM Re: Bug report [Re: Amateur Jerry]
Brometeo Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/17/11
Posts: 61
Loc: Madrid (Spain)
Originally Posted By: Amateur Jerry

I'd play the DP then play the same on the RX-2. Then I'd record on the DP and listen from a distance. They both sounded the same.


I have tested and like it. My little collection of CA93 configurations seems almost complete laugh

Thank you.
_________________________
Kawai CA95

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#1886274 - 04/25/12 12:11 PM Re: Bug report [Re: Amateur Jerry]
TADutchman Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/26/10
Posts: 760
Loc: Apeldoorn, The Netherlands
Hi Amateur Jerry, thanks for your contribution. thumb I like the concept and adapted a little to my personal taste.

Two things:
1. I prefer a Bright 2 voicing in this case, which sounds similar during forte playing, but gives a brighter timbre when playing pianissimo (some would say a more piano-like response, but that's open to debate).
2. The used delay 1 settings are way too pronounced, especially during staccato playing in the discant. This cannot be authentic when compared to a(ny) Kawai or other acoustic. I replaced this with either a slight Chorus or no effect at all.

Please note that the highest C(7) note sounds slightly off (as has been reported to Kawai before), let's call it imperfect samples (isn't that the name of a British company too?) wink


KAWAI RX-2 BLAK R1.0 - a TAD variation

Dual Voice: Concert Grand, volume 5 / Mellow Grand volume 5

1 Basic Settings
1 - 3 Tone control: low +1 mid +3 high -2

2 Virtual Technician
2 - 1 Voicing: Bright 2
2 - 2 Damper resonance: 6
2 - 3 String resonance: 8
2 - 4 Key off effect: 7
2 - 5 Touch: Heavy
2 - 6 Temperament: Equal (= Equal Stretch in user manual)
2 - 8 Stretch tuning: Wide

3 Key Settings
3 - 4 Layer dynamics: 10

Reverb: Stage

Effect: Chorus, rate 2, depth 1 / None



Edited by TADutchman (04/25/12 03:59 PM)
Edit Reason: Custom EQ added
_________________________
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C A - 9 3 ......... A X - 7 ...... X B O A R D - 4 9

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#1890016 - 05/02/12 02:36 PM Re: Bug report [Re: TADutchman]
ripe_md Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/26/10
Posts: 27
Loc: Germany
After about six months I've updated the settings list. You can find the URL in the first posting.

Cheeeeerio
ripe_md

Top
#1890970 - 05/04/12 09:34 AM Re: Bug report [Re: TADutchman]
Amateur Jerry Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/01/09
Posts: 65
Loc: Mokena, Illinois
TAD,

I tried your RX-2 BLAK. Quite impressive. I had to revert back to my previous voicing. The Bright 2 was just a little to high for my taste. I have a small room that I use in my house. Like an AP, that could have some effect on the setting.

One setting that did surprise me was for Effect; you selected CHORUS. I always avoided that in a DP until now. What I noticed with that setting is it mitigated that "direct - in your face" feeling you sometimes get with a DP, and in the small room I was struggling with that. I always felt the manufacturers should put the tweeters in the back of the DP, so that the sound comes from a more natural setting of an AP grand (behind the music rack). Thanks for the advice on that.
_________________________
Czar

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#1891121 - 05/04/12 01:36 PM Re: Bug report [Re: Amateur Jerry]
TADutchman Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/26/10
Posts: 760
Loc: Apeldoorn, The Netherlands
Originally Posted By: Amateur Jerry
One setting that did surprise me was for Effect; you selected CHORUS. I always avoided that in a DP until now. What I noticed with that setting is it mitigated that "direct - in your face" feeling you sometimes get with a DP, and in the small room I was struggling with that.

That explanation is quite right (you have saved me some work for the hints section of this thread) and by the way it does acoustic wonders in the midrange too, i.e. a slight obfuscation/unpredictability in a good way. cool

By the way, did I already mention the more pronounced natural hammer attack, especially in the discant? whistle

_________________________
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C A - 9 3 ......... A X - 7 ...... X B O A R D - 4 9

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#1892173 - 05/06/12 11:01 AM Re: Bug report [Re: ripe_md]
TADutchman Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/26/10
Posts: 760
Loc: Apeldoorn, The Netherlands
Originally Posted By: ripe_md
After about six months I've updated the settings list. You can find the URL in the first posting.

Cheeeeerio
ripe_md

Great job, thanks in the name of all visitors! thumb

Just to add some statistics: for the past year we reached an average of about 1000 visits per post here. shocked smile


Edited by TADutchman (05/07/12 12:38 AM)
Edit Reason: statistics added
_________________________
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C A - 9 3 ......... A X - 7 ...... X B O A R D - 4 9

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#1898723 - 05/17/12 03:22 PM Re: Exclusively for KAWAI CA93/CA63 owners: custom settings [Re: TADutchman]
TADutchman Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/26/10
Posts: 760
Loc: Apeldoorn, The Netherlands
By coincidence, here's my DP hint of the week (for any brand):

I was curious and sceptical at the same time whether Quantum Resonance Technology would do anything at all to an audio signal (despite of several positive reviews) and finally decided to just buy the KEMP Elektroniks QA PLUG for my hifi system (as the Nordost 'competitive' product is like ten times more expensive) and put it to the test: I was really impressed with the results as it unexpectedly does as advertised on the box:

"The KE-QA PLUG is the best upgrade for a better live performance of your complete A/V system. Just plug the QA PLUG into a free outlet nearby the A/V set and enjoy the improved stage image, warm details and higher definition. - made with pride and care by KEMP ELEKTRONIKS"

The QA plug made me relisten just about all my favourite CD tracks in awe, as it's effect is not subtle, more like just having obtained a higher-end hifi system! shocked

Also the live acoustics of my CA93, which is plugged into a different outlet in the living room, are positively affected. Check it out for yourself if you dare! (your mileage may vary) wink
_________________________
K A W A I ..... R O L A N D ......... E - M U
C A - 9 3 ......... A X - 7 ...... X B O A R D - 4 9

Top
#1898771 - 05/17/12 04:57 PM Re: Exclusively for KAWAI CA93/CA63 owners: custom settings [Re: TADutchman]
SIG77 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/17/12
Posts: 30
Loc: California, US
I played Kawai CA93 vs. CA63 side by side with headphones. It appears that CA93 sounds with more brilliance, even though the sampling is supposedly identical. I had made sure reset the basic setting back to manufacturing default on both models. So it is not because of key touch or headphone level difference. Is it possible that CA93 has a more upscale audio processing on top of the same piano samples?
_________________________
Bosendorfer 185CS, Roland FP-7F, Yamaha PSR530

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#1898804 - 05/17/12 05:54 PM Re: Exclusively for KAWAI CA93/CA63 owners: custom settings [Re: SIG77]
TADutchman Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/26/10
Posts: 760
Loc: Apeldoorn, The Netherlands
SIG77, in case of headphones there should be no difference i.m.h.o. (other than production tolerances).

When playing live, I'd say that more perceived brilliance is most likely originating from the CA93's dedicated 1.9 cm tweeters, as opposed to the CA63's wider frequency range 5cm speakers.

The CA63 has a 2-way speaker system:
5 cm x 2
13 cm x 2

The CA93 has a 3-way speaker system:
1.9 cm x 2 (tweeter)
7 cm x 4 (midrange)
Soundboard Speaker System (bass)

Based on these specs, speaker placement and yes also audio-processing e.g. crossover frequencies must be different in one way or another.


Edited by TADutchman (05/18/12 07:16 AM)
Edit Reason: headphones comment added
_________________________
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C A - 9 3 ......... A X - 7 ...... X B O A R D - 4 9

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#1916998 - 06/21/12 11:35 PM Re: Exclusively for KAWAI CA93/CA63 owners: custom settings [Re: TADutchman]
Amateur Jerry Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/01/09
Posts: 65
Loc: Mokena, Illinois
Hi Friends,

When I was buying my DP earlier this year, I was debating the 63 vs 93. For the price difference I sacrificed the 93 (improved) sound for the 63. Well, at my company raffle I won a Sharp HT SL70 sound bar (2.1).

I hooked that up through the audio out. Now I have a 6.1. I have the speakers vertical ~ 40" apart on top of the piano and the sub woofer on the floor just left of the piano. I believe I just made up the difference!

Amateur Jerry
_________________________
Czar

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#1993530 - 12/02/12 06:32 AM Re: Exclusively for KAWAI CA93/CA63 owners: custom settings [Re: Amateur Jerry]
Galuwen Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/16/10
Posts: 38
Hello friends,

I really like this forum. For me it is by far the most important and inspiring source for KAWAI users :-)

Today I would like to contribute with a short note, because again a discussion about sound reproduction is "on the run".

For me the most important and underestimated sound adjustment is...*tadadaaaaa* the VOLUME control.

It is in fact not really the loudness you adjust but automactically as you try to play in the same level you experience different fields on the deeps of your instrument.

A bit like the "touch" feature the total level of volume has a great impact on the sound of my CA-93 and the playing style.

It is impressive how just 2 clicks or....hmmmm...lines on the volume slider totally change the sound of the instrument due to different sample layers or ultra progessive algorithms.

Try it out it's worth the time and the best thing. In seconds the sliders is back on the good old "middle" position :-)

Alexander


Edited by Galuwen (12/02/12 06:33 AM)

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#2012263 - 01/10/13 01:17 PM Re: Exclusively for KAWAI CA93/CA63 owners: custom settings [Re: TADutchman]
TrumpetMan Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/10/13
Posts: 46
Loc: Essex, UK
Hi All - first post here smile

Respect to everyone who has contributed to this thread.

I have been lurking for quite a while and have recently bought an 'ex-demo' CA63 and am generally loving it.

I have downloaded one of the pdfs containing all the presets so far, but despite reading the manual (and the whole of this thread) I am stuck.

I am trying to use 'Kawai EX - The Winners Choice (Closed Lid)'. I can layer Voice 1 with 'Concert Grand 2' and 'Mellow Grand 2', but cannot for the life of me get 'Concert Grand' into Voice 2 - all I can get on the Piano 2 key is Pop, Rock and Modern pianos.

Also, I notice that 'The Mother Of All D Grands' has 4 sounds assigned to Voice 2 (Mellow Grand 2, Concert Grand, Pop Piano and Modern Piano) - how do you achieve this?

I know that earlier in the thread someone alluded to uploading a 'how-to' guide, but the links no longer work.

Please can someone help me?

Thanks in advance.


Edited by TrumpetMan (01/12/13 06:59 AM)

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#2014078 - 01/13/13 08:08 PM Re: Exclusively for KAWAI CA93/CA63 owners: custom settings [Re: TrumpetMan]
TrumpetMan Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/10/13
Posts: 46
Loc: Essex, UK
OK, I can now answer my own question!

Looking at ripe_md's pdf charts, where there are more than one sound listed in the Voice 1 or Voice 2 columns, these are alternatives you can choose between.

You can only layer two sounds at a time.

It took a while for me to figure this out!

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#2014155 - 01/13/13 11:30 PM Re: Exclusively for KAWAI CA93/CA63 owners: custom settings [Re: TADutchman]
dmd Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/15/09
Posts: 1876
Loc: Pennsylvania
Originally Posted By: TADutchman
By coincidence, here's my DP hint of the week (for any brand):

I was curious and sceptical at the same time whether Quantum Resonance Technology would do anything at all to an audio signal (despite of several positive reviews) and finally decided to just buy the KEMP Elektroniks QA PLUG for my hifi system (as the Nordost 'competitive' product is like ten times more expensive) and put it to the test: I was really impressed with the results as it unexpectedly does as advertised on the box:

"The KE-QA PLUG is the best upgrade for a better live performance of your complete A/V system. Just plug the QA PLUG into a free outlet nearby the A/V set and enjoy the improved stage image, warm details and higher definition. - made with pride and care by KEMP ELEKTRONIKS"

The QA plug made me relisten just about all my favourite CD tracks in awe, as it's effect is not subtle, more like just having obtained a higher-end hifi system! shocked

Also the live acoustics of my CA93, which is plugged into a different outlet in the living room, are positively affected. Check it out for yourself if you dare! (your mileage may vary) wink


I have seen references to this item prior to this and each time I find it interesting but I just cannot "buy" it. I think I will check with a couple of local stereo shoppes and see what they know about it. When something sounds too good ... well, you know the rest.
_________________________
Don

Current: ES7, Focusrite Scarlett 2i4 audio device, SennHeiser HD555 Phones, Focal CMS 40 Powered Monitors, Ravenscroft275, Ivory II American Concert D, Pianoteq 5

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#2015886 - 01/17/13 02:08 AM Re: Exclusively for KAWAI CA93/CA63 owners: custom settings [Re: dmd]
TADutchman Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/26/10
Posts: 760
Loc: Apeldoorn, The Netherlands
Originally Posted By: dmd
I have seen references to this item prior to this and each time I find it interesting but I just cannot "buy" it.
Well, it would be extremely easy to simply return the QA-plug if not satisfied (free of charge), that's why I tried it in the first place. For me it turned out to be a successful experiment without running any risk. smile (please note that I have no relation with the company)

By the way, sorry for my LONG absence, guys. My wife spent several Months in hospital before giving preterm birth to our son. He was born 3 Months early, but after a lot of care and attention he's doing fine now! So, I'm slowly getting back into business again...
_________________________
K A W A I ..... R O L A N D ......... E - M U
C A - 9 3 ......... A X - 7 ...... X B O A R D - 4 9

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#2015890 - 01/17/13 02:21 AM Re: Exclusively for KAWAI CA93/CA63 owners: custom settings [Re: TADutchman]
Kawai James Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 9209
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
Good to hear from you again TADutchman!

I'm sorry to learn of your wife's childbirth complications, but I'm glad to know that you are all well!

Take care,
James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

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#2016003 - 01/17/13 09:04 AM Re: Exclusively for KAWAI CA93/CA63 owners: custom settings [Re: Kawai James]
HwyStar Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/17/11
Posts: 323
Yes, it is nice to have you back in the saddle again Dutch!

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#2016012 - 01/17/13 09:25 AM Re: Exclusively for KAWAI CA93/CA63 owners: custom settings [Re: TADutchman]
TrumpetMan Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/10/13
Posts: 46
Loc: Essex, UK
Congratulations to all.

Sounds like some lullabys could be useful to get some peace smile

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#2021511 - 01/26/13 06:00 AM Re: Exclusively for KAWAI CA93/CA63 owners: custom settings [Re: TrumpetMan]
Fryc Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 07/08/12
Posts: 10
Hallo to all.
Just bought Kawai CA95 black, it's here, near to me right now :-)
As newbie i have some questions.

1) Is possible to use TADutchman presets also for ca95?
2) I have downloaded pdf with all settings. But does anyone can upload the settings for Steinway Grand Devotion Rev 3 normal touching? I'm not very confident just now and i want to be sure that all the settings i do are correct. It would be of some help for me.

Thank you ... in particular to Dutchman for his incredible work!!!

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#2022001 - 01/27/13 05:55 AM Re: Exclusively for KAWAI CA93/CA63 owners: custom settings [Re: Fryc]
TADutchman Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/26/10
Posts: 760
Loc: Apeldoorn, The Netherlands
Hello Fryc,
Thanks for your compliment!

To answer your questions:
1) Most sounds of the CA95 are probably still similar to some extend to the CA93 and dual voice mode is also supported (unlike e.g. the MP10), but there are several enhancements also in the virtual technician, so in order to get the most out of your CA95, you'd probably have to tweak every CA93 custom dual voice preset by ear.

2) The Steinway Grand Devotion Rev 3 normal touch was initially published in this thread, here to be exact: http://www.pianoworld.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/1622719.html#Post1622719
_________________________
K A W A I ..... R O L A N D ......... E - M U
C A - 9 3 ......... A X - 7 ...... X B O A R D - 4 9

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#2022020 - 01/27/13 07:17 AM Re: Exclusively for KAWAI CA93/CA63 owners: custom settings [Re: TADutchman]
Brometeo Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/17/11
Posts: 61
Loc: Madrid (Spain)
A definitive solution should be enhancing CA93 firmware for been the same than CA95 (hint for Kawai Technic department) ;D
_________________________
Kawai CA95

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#2022052 - 01/27/13 09:01 AM Re: Exclusively for KAWAI CA93/CA63 owners: custom settings [Re: TADutchman]
Fryc Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 07/08/12
Posts: 10
Yes, i'm trying to understand all the settings. This is the first time for me.

What i'm noticing is that there are a lot of differences in the software.

For example, reverb hall 2 doesn't exist. The types are: Room, Lounge, Small Hall, Concert Hall, Live Hall and Cathedral. For everyone of these types we can adjust DEPTH (1-10) and TIME (1-10).
The effects are even more different. We have: Stereo Delay, Ping Delay, Triple Delay and many others. It's even possible to combine them.

And finally i don't see KEY SETTINGS !!!

It's very difficult for me to understand what to do.

If you have the possibility to have under your hand the new CA95 and want to do a conversion CA93->CA95 would be wonderful :-) Not every presets of course, just some Steinway, particularly someone ideal for Chopin music.

I'm honest. The CA95's action is very good, but i don't like Concert Grand default sound. Don't like for classical music, in particular Chopin.


Edited by Fryc (01/27/13 09:02 AM)

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#2022089 - 01/27/13 10:09 AM Re: Exclusively for KAWAI CA93/CA63 owners: custom settings [Re: Fryc]
TADutchman Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/26/10
Posts: 760
Loc: Apeldoorn, The Netherlands
Originally Posted By: Fryc
If you have the possibility to have under your hand the new CA95 and want to do a conversion CA93->CA95 would be wonderful :-)

Unfortunately, at the moment I have no funds available anymore for upgrading to a CA95. Nevertheless, I would be happy to rework and optimise all still relevant CA93 dual voice presets for CA95. cool

Just some ideas to get me on board: wink
1. Kawai wants to support this initiative, making a CA95 available (this would be very surprising).
2. Crowd funding by CA95/CA65 owners to make my hardware upgrade possible.
_________________________
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C A - 9 3 ......... A X - 7 ...... X B O A R D - 4 9

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#2022182 - 01/27/13 12:52 PM Re: Exclusively for KAWAI CA93/CA63 owners: custom settings [Re: TADutchman]
Fryc Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 07/08/12
Posts: 10
Nice idea, i will support it :-)
Or you could go in big shop and put your magic hands on a CA95, at least for a beautiful steinway chopin piano ;-)

Top
#2022209 - 01/27/13 01:48 PM Re: Exclusively for KAWAI CA93/CA63 owners: custom settings [Re: Fryc]
TADutchman Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/26/10
Posts: 760
Loc: Apeldoorn, The Netherlands
Originally Posted By: Fryc
Or you could go in big shop and put your magic hands on a CA95, at least for a beautiful steinway chopin piano ;-)
The point is that especially my ears are not so magic in a noisy music shop and also the positioning of the CA95 typically is sub-optimal (and mixing exclusively with headphones generally is a bad idea), so the result would be underwhelming to say the least. Moreover, after developing and testdriving a preset for a few hours, I typically let it rest for like 24-hours and then try again if it still sounds as good as my fatigued ears of yesterday thought it would.
_________________________
K A W A I ..... R O L A N D ......... E - M U
C A - 9 3 ......... A X - 7 ...... X B O A R D - 4 9

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#2022222 - 01/27/13 02:24 PM Re: Exclusively for KAWAI CA93/CA63 owners: custom settings [Re: TADutchman]
Fryc Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 07/08/12
Posts: 10
Right, i understand
Hope you can upgrade soon!!!

Top
#2029287 - 02/08/13 12:52 PM Re: Exclusively for KAWAI CA93/CA63 owners: custom settings [Re: Fryc]
TADutchman Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/26/10
Posts: 760
Loc: Apeldoorn, The Netherlands
Originally Posted By: Fryc
Hope you can upgrade soon!!!

Well, that is not going to happen, independent of budget, as seemingly on purpose Kawai crippled dual voice mode preset development with the CA95.

As you all know, I work exclusively by ear (direct feedback) and that way of working is explicitly frustrated on the CA95. tiki cursing

See also this thread:
http://www.pianoworld.com/forum/ubbthrea...tml#Post1982207

The MP10 dual voice mode nightmare (compared to MP8) apparently wasn't enough...


Edited by TADutchman (03/09/13 02:59 AM)
Edit Reason: Severe CA95 dual voice mode issue
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