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#1450258 - 06/04/10 03:53 PM La Campanella
dlee1001 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/21/10
Posts: 80
Is "La Campanella" by Paganini (arranged by Liszt) considered a virtuosic etude for piano?

I want to go to The Juilliard School to get a degree in piano, and the audition requirements paper for piano says that I need two virtuosic etudes: one by Chopin and one by Bartók, Debussy, Ligeti, Liszt, Prokofiev, Rachmaninoff, Scriabin, or Stravinsky.

If "La Campanella" was transcribed by Liszt, does it count by something by him, and does the piece itself count as a virtuosic etude?
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#1450260 - 06/04/10 03:56 PM Re: La Campanella [Re: dlee1001]
Mark_C Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 19737
Loc: New York
Yes, it counts on all counts.

BTW.....it seems surprising that someone at your level (i.e. someone capable of playing such pieces, and who is contemplating Juilliard) wouldn't know those things. But maybe you were sort of just 'making conversation' to start getting involved here. (I think lots of people do that.) smile
In any event, welcome -- and good luck!
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"Everything I say is my opinion, including the facts." :-)

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#1450271 - 06/04/10 04:11 PM Re: La Campanella [Re: Mark_C]
dlee1001 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/21/10
Posts: 80
Thank you for your kind welcome.

I have not started practicing this piece yet. I am a high school student, now going to be a senior. How much time do I have to practice for everything?

Please check http://www.juilliard.edu/admissions/pdfs/music_requirements2010_FULL.pdf and scroll down to page 10 to see the piano audition requirements. I have some questions regarding the auditions.

1. In the section where it says that undergraduates need to play a prelude and fugue from the Well Tempered Clavier (no transcriptions permitted), what do they mean by the phrase "No transcriptions permitted"? Isn't there a piano solo for every part of the Well Tempered Clavier?

2. Do Scherzi count as one of the pieces not accepted for #3 on the audition requirements for piano?

3. For #5, can I play waltz pieces/non-classical pieces to fulfill this requirement? Also, can I play two different pieces by two different composers (since it says "A collection of shorter works") that take about 3 minutes each to play (since it says "Not less than six minutes")?

I am sorry if these are stupid questions, but I want to get things straight so that I can do my best for the auditions.
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#1450277 - 06/04/10 04:15 PM Re: La Campanella [Re: dlee1001]
Mark_C Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 19737
Loc: New York
I'll just do that first one and leave the rest for others:

Originally Posted By: dlee1001
1. In the section where it says that undergraduates need to play a prelude and fugue from the Well Tempered Clavier (no transcriptions permitted), what do they mean by the phrase "No transcriptions permitted"? Isn't there a piano solo for every part of the Well Tempered Clavier?

Yes, but there are also different versions (transcriptions, arrangements), and sometimes people make up their own. That's all they mean.
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"Everything I say is my opinion, including the facts." :-)

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#1450300 - 06/04/10 04:59 PM Re: La Campanella [Re: Mark_C]
Kreisler Offline



Registered: 11/27/02
Posts: 13780
Loc: Iowa City, IA
1. The transcription comment doesn't apply to the preludes and fugues. The requirements state "or another work containing a fugue," and the no transcriptions rule is meant to rule out the organ fugue transcriptions such as those by Busoni and Liszt.

2. Any of the Chopin scherzi would be acceptable. Again, the key is "substantial" - they want a major work, something around ten minutes long that demonstrates a range of technical and tonal control.

3. The works would probably need to be by the same composer. Examples of what they're trying to get are things like the Prokofiev Sarcasms, Debussy Images, a few of the Ravel Valses Nobles et Sentimentales, Liebermann's Gargoyles, etc...

Judging by the information you posted, you can expect similar deadlines for next year. That means you need your pre-screening round CD sent by Dec. 1, which means you need to plan to record no later than the first of November. To prepare, I'd suggest entering the MTNA Competitions. You'd be able to use the same repertoire, get judges' comments and some performance experience. (I'm assuming you're in the US.) Those competitions are usually sometime between mid October and early November depending on your state.
_________________________
"If we continually try to force a child to do what he is afraid to do, he will become more timid, and will use his brains and energy, not to explore the unknown, but to find ways to avoid the pressures we put on him." (John Holt)

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#1450309 - 06/04/10 05:23 PM Re: La Campanella [Re: Kreisler]
Mark_C Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 19737
Loc: New York
Originally Posted By: Kreisler
1. The transcription comment doesn't apply to the preludes and fugues.....

That makes more sense. I wondered about it (because while "arrangements" could apply, it didn't seem that "transcriptions" could), but took it at face value and went from there.
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"Everything I say is my opinion, including the facts." :-)

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#1450314 - 06/04/10 05:26 PM Re: La Campanella [Re: dlee1001]
jeffreyjones Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/31/10
Posts: 2312
Loc: San Jose, CA
Originally Posted By: dlee1001
Thank you for your kind welcome.

I have not started practicing this piece yet. I am a high school student, now going to be a senior. How much time do I have to practice for everything?

Please check http://www.juilliard.edu/admissions/pdfs/music_requirements2010_FULL.pdf and scroll down to page 10 to see the piano audition requirements. I have some questions regarding the auditions.

1. In the section where it says that undergraduates need to play a prelude and fugue from the Well Tempered Clavier (no transcriptions permitted), what do they mean by the phrase "No transcriptions permitted"? Isn't there a piano solo for every part of the Well Tempered Clavier?


A transcription means it was written for another instrument/group of instruments and rewritten by a different composer (Busoni, Liszt) for the piano. The WTK is an original Bach work for keyboard, though some would argue Bach on the piano is always a transcription!

Quote:
2. Do Scherzi count as one of the pieces not accepted for #3 on the audition requirements for piano?


The Scherzi would be fine, though I've had teachers who spent quite some time at Juilliard tell me that the Ballades are better for auditions as they're less repetitive.

Quote:
3. For #5, can I play waltz pieces/non-classical pieces to fulfill this requirement? Also, can I play two different pieces by two different composers (since it says "A collection of shorter works") that take about 3 minutes each to play (since it says "Not less than six minutes")?


I would think classical music would be expected, but composers like Gershwin blur the line. Since you already have Baroque, Classical and major Romantic works required, I would recommend something written since 1900.

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#1450327 - 06/04/10 05:49 PM Re: La Campanella [Re: jeffreyjones]
stores Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/28/09
Posts: 6646
Loc: Here, as opposed to there
Might I ask what repertoire you've worked on already and why you've chosen Juilliard?
_________________________

"And if we look at the works of J.S. Bach — a benevolent god to which all musicians should offer a prayer to defend themselves against mediocrity... -Debussy

"It's ok if you disagree with me. I can't force you to be right."

♪ ≠ $


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#1450335 - 06/04/10 06:10 PM Re: La Campanella [Re: stores]
dlee1001 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/21/10
Posts: 80
Originally Posted By: stores
Might I ask what repertoire you've worked on already and why you've chosen Juilliard?


I started taking private piano lessons when I was 11 years old. I took them from a Peabody graduate. I took the lessons for two years, and then I stopped and started playing by myself. I mastered 558 Christian hymns within the next 1-2 years. After mastering these, I started to play classical music (starting late 2008). These are the pieces that I know how to play:

1. Baranowska: A Maiden's Prayer
2. Beethoven: Piano Sonata No. 8 in C-minor 2nd movement “Pathétique”; “Moonlight” Sonata 1st movement; “Egmont” Overture piano solo; Minuet in G piano solo; Violin Sonata No. 2, op. 50 piano accompaniment
3. Brahms: Lullaby
4. Chopin: Nocturne op. 9, no. 1; Nocturne op. 9, no. 2; Scherzo no. 2 in B-flat Minor, op. 31; Fantasie-Impromptu, op. 66
5. Dvorak: Humoresque No. 7 in G-flat major, op. 101
6. Handel: Hallelujah piano accompaniment; Largo (from Xerxes); Rinaldo: “Lascia ch'io pianga” piano solo
7. Pachelbel: Canon in D
8. Schumann: Träumerei
9. Schubert/Liszt: Ständchen piano solo; Der Erlkönig piano solo
10. Strauss: Voices of Spring, op. 410 piano solo; On the Beautiful Blue Danube piano solo

I chose Juilliard because it is the best place to get a degree in piano. I am very serious about wanting to major in piano. I used my Casio PX-120 to master all of the above.
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#1450338 - 06/04/10 06:18 PM Re: La Campanella [Re: dlee1001]
jeffreyjones Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/31/10
Posts: 2312
Loc: San Jose, CA
That's a fairly creditable list considering you've only bee playing classical for two years, but you'll be going up against people who have been winning competitions since you were in grade school and have the repertoire of a Richter.. it's not really the best place to go in green and hope that the teachers will foster your growth. Juilliard teachers don't have time for that. They want great proven talents. A smaller university, not conservatory, might be better for you.

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#1450339 - 06/04/10 06:18 PM Re: La Campanella [Re: dlee1001]
dolce sfogato Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/29/10
Posts: 2630
Loc: Netherlands

if La Campanella is the next piece in your above mentioned list of repertoire, you'll have a hard time...but good luck anyhow!
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Couperin pices, Ravel tombeau de C

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#1450357 - 06/04/10 06:50 PM Re: La Campanella [Re: dolce sfogato]
BruceD Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/26/01
Posts: 17954
Loc: Victoria, BC
I'm very much inclined to agree with JeffreyJones here that Juilliard is probably not a good choice for you. Your repertoire is good for the length of time you have been studying, but it can't stand up to what (most) applicants - and any successful applicant - to Juilliard has in his/her repertoire.

Some of what you have played are arrangements or transcriptions of works not originally written for piano, and wouldn't be criteria for judging your skills and proficiency :
- Beethoven: “Egmont” Overture
- Brahms: Lullaby
- Handel: Largo (from Xerxes); Rinaldo: “Lascia ch'io pianga”
- Pachelbel: Canon in D
- Strauss: Voices of Spring, op. 410
- On the Beautiful Blue Danube

As JJ pointed out, most candidates for a school such as Juilliard have not only been competing, successfully, in major competitions throughout their high school years, most of them also have a pretty formidable repertoire of major works from the Baroque to the present. That would include Preludes and Fugues from the WTC, Beethoven, Haydn, and Mozart Sonatas, as well as selections from the Romantic, Impressionist and modern repertoire; include in these a few major piano concerti, while you're at it.

Juilliard doesn't teach one to play the piano; Juilliard helps the advanced pianist hone already proven performance skills.

A college with a program in piano is probably the best place for you to apply, given what you have told us about your formation.

This isn't meant to dampen your enthusiasm for pursuing your piano studies, but you should realize the level of competition you would be up against if you were to apply to Juilliard. I can't see - based on what you have written - that you would have the slightest chance of being accepted there.

Back to your original question : Yes, "La Campanella" is considered a virtuoso piano Etude, one of the six etudes by Liszt based on original material by Paganini. I have seen it as an accepted "virtuoso Etude" on a syllabus list that requires a virtuoso etude.

Regards,
_________________________
BruceD
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Estonia 190

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#1450362 - 06/04/10 06:59 PM Re: La Campanella [Re: dlee1001]
John_B Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/17/10
Posts: 621
Loc: Bristol, UK
Originally Posted By: dlee1001
I started taking private piano lessons when I was 11 years old. I took them from a Peabody graduate. I took the lessons for two years, and then I stopped and started playing by myself. I mastered 558 Christian hymns within the next 1-2 years. After mastering these, I started to play classical music (starting late 2008)....


dlee1001,

Am I right in thinking that you haven't had formal piano lessons after the first two years?

If so I think it would be very helpful to find a really good teacher (there is only so much you can do on your own).

I know nothing about the Julliard other than its reputation. One thing does stick in my mind though (which is probably totally irrelevant). I remember an long interview given by Nigel Kennedy (the violinist) in which he explained how he went to the Julliard after his time at the Menuhin School (in the UK) and how he found the Julliard an extremely competitive environment and that he was very unhappy there - taking refuge in jazz bars etc.


Edited by John_B (06/04/10 07:00 PM)

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#1450367 - 06/04/10 07:04 PM Re: La Campanella [Re: BruceD]
dlee1001 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/21/10
Posts: 80
Would I still be able to pursue a career in playing the piano if I enroll in a college with a program in piano?
_________________________
Steinway grand pianos for the win

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#1450368 - 06/04/10 07:06 PM Re: La Campanella [Re: John_B]
dlee1001 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/21/10
Posts: 80
That is correct. I have only had lessons for two years. After that, my father began to give me tips and advice on how to play something.
_________________________
Steinway grand pianos for the win

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#1450376 - 06/04/10 07:13 PM Re: La Campanella [Re: dlee1001]
stores Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/28/09
Posts: 6646
Loc: Here, as opposed to there
I can't add much to what some have stated above, but Juilliard, isn't the school for you. I hate to say that, because it seems you have your hopes truly set in that direction. While it may be your opinion that Juilliard is the best place to obtain a degree (one I don't share), there are many other worthy schools where you would most likely do very well. I'm assuming you're wanting to attempt an audition for a performance degree? If so, since you asked about time constraints, I would begin looking into other school's audition requirements as soon as possible and get busy. A performance program at any good school is quite rigorous and will require several additions to the repertoire you've listed above.
_________________________

"And if we look at the works of J.S. Bach — a benevolent god to which all musicians should offer a prayer to defend themselves against mediocrity... -Debussy

"It's ok if you disagree with me. I can't force you to be right."

♪ ≠ $


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#1450381 - 06/04/10 07:19 PM Re: La Campanella [Re: dlee1001]
carey Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/13/05
Posts: 6294
Loc: Phoenix, Arizona
Originally Posted By: dlee1001
Would I still be able to pursue a career in playing the piano if I enroll in a college with a program in piano?


Most definitely - and in all regions of the U.S. !!!

However, you will need to be very realistic about the type of musical career you'll pursue. Just exactly what would you like to do with the piano?

P.S. - Its great that you've learned all of your repertoire on a digital piano - but now that you are thinking about college auditions, it would be a good idea to start practicing on an acoustic instrument as well. I'm not suggesting that you should go out an purchase one - but perhaps a local church, school etc. can let you practice on one of their pianos. And it also would be beneficial for you to work with a teacher prior to the auditions if at all possible.



Edited by carey (06/04/10 08:00 PM)
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#1450532 - 06/04/10 11:37 PM Re: La Campanella [Re: carey]
BearLake Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/16/08
Posts: 144
Loc: SE Idaho
It might be helpful to read first-hand-accounts of those pianists who attended Juilliard. I'm currently reading "Life between the Keys: the (Mis) Adventures of the 5 Browns." This a family of 5 siblings who all attended Juilliard, and they each give very personal accounts of the audition process of a highly selective school. At least you could vicariously experience what you might miss even if you never apply to the school.

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#1450856 - 06/05/10 02:40 PM Re: La Campanella [Re: carey]
dlee1001 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/21/10
Posts: 80
Originally Posted By: carey
However, you will need to be very realistic about the type of musical career you'll pursue. Just exactly what would you like to do with the piano?


I want to be a concert pianist or at least a piano professor at Juilliard or Peabody.
_________________________
Steinway grand pianos for the win

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#1450860 - 06/05/10 02:45 PM Re: La Campanella [Re: BruceD]
dlee1001 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/21/10
Posts: 80
Along with my repertoire, I play the piano for the elderly at a nursing home. The owner of the facility will be writing a letter of recommendation for me, for having done this (I started in 2007 and am still continuing). Would this community service, along with my grades in high school (my total weighted GPA as of now is about 3.7; I'm a junior heading towards my senior year) and my SAT scores (470 in CR, 460 in math, 610 in Writing; will be taking again) give me any more likelihood that I might be accepted at either Juilliard or Peabody?
_________________________
Steinway grand pianos for the win

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#1450872 - 06/05/10 03:07 PM Re: La Campanella [Re: dlee1001]
carey Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/13/05
Posts: 6294
Loc: Phoenix, Arizona
Originally Posted By: dlee1001
Along with my repertoire, I play the piano for the elderly at a nursing home. The owner of the facility will be writing a letter of recommendation for me, for having done this (I started in 2007 and am still continuing). Would this community service, along with my grades in high school (my total weighted GPA as of now is about 3.7; I'm a junior heading towards my senior year) and my SAT scores (470 in CR, 460 in math, 610 in Writing; will be taking again) give me any more likelihood that I might be accepted at either Juilliard or Peabody?


First of all, congratulations on your GPA. Keep up the good work !!

The community service is very nice - but it really will not help you get into a top level music conservatory.

I've provided (below) a listing of the best music schools in the nation. I strongly recommend that you visit their websites and learn more about them.



Baldwin-Wallace Conservatory of Music (Berea, OH)
Bard College Conservatory of Music (Annandale-on-Hudson, NY)
Berklee College of Music (Boston, MA)
Blair School of Music of Vanderbilt University (Nashville, TN)
Boston Conservatory (Boston, MA)
Boston University [47] (Boston, MA)
Bob Cole Conservatory of Music of California State University Long Beach (Long Beach, CA)
Carnegie Mellon School of Music (Pittsburgh, PA)
Cleveland Institute of Music (Cleveland, OH)
The Colburn School (Los Angeles, CA)
Cornish College of the Arts (Seattle, WA)
Crane School of Music (Potsdam, NY)
Curtis Institute of Music (Philadelphia, PA)
Eastman School of Music (Rochester, NY)
Florida State University College of Music (Tallahassee)
Hartt School of Music (West Hartford, CT)
Indiana University Jacobs School of Music (Bloomington, IN)
Ithaca College (Ithaca, NY)
John J. Cali School of Music of Montclair State University (Montclair, NJ)
Juilliard School (New York)
Longy School of Music (Cambridge, MA)
Los Angeles Music Academy College of Music (Los Angeles, CA)
Lynn Conservatory of Music of Lynn University (Boca Raton, FL)
McNally Smith College of Music (St.Paul, MN)
Manhattan School of Music (New York City)
Mannes College The New School for Music (New York City)
New England Conservatory (Boston)
Bienen School of Music of Northwestern University (Evanston, IL)
Oberlin Conservatory (Oberlin,OH)
Peabody Conservatory of Johns Hopkins University (Baltimore)
Pennsylvania Academy of Music (Lancaster, PA)
Rowan University(Glassboro, NJ)
Rutgers University Mason Gross School (New Brunswick, NJ)
Sarah and Ernest Butler School of Music of The University of Texas at Austin (Austin, TX)
Setnor School of Music in the College of Visual and Performing Arts of Syracuse University (Syracuse, NY)
Shepherd School of Music of Rice University (Houston, TX)
Shenandoah University Shenandoah Conservatory (Winchester, VA)
University of Cincinnati College-Conservatory of Music, (Cincinnati)
University of Connecticut School of Music (Storrs, CT)
University of Illinois, School of Music (Urbana, IL)
University of Maryland School of Music (College Park, MD)
University of Massachusetts School of Music (Amherst, MA)
University of Michigan School of Music, Theatre & Dance (Ann Arbor, MI)
University of Missouri School of Music (Columbia, MO)
University of North Texas College of Music (Denton)
University of Southern California Thornton School of Music (Los Angeles)
University of Southern Maine USM School of Music (Gorham, ME)
University of the Pacific Conservatory of Music (Stockton, CA)
University of Washington School of Music (Seattle, WA)
Western Illinois University School of Music (Macomb, IL)
Westminster Choir College of Rider University (Princeton, NJ)
Conservatory of Music at Wheaton College (Wheaton, IL)
Yale University Yale School of Music (New Haven, CT)
_________________________
YouTube channel - http://www.youtube.com/user/pianophilo

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#1450879 - 06/05/10 03:17 PM Re: La Campanella [Re: dlee1001]
BruceD Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/26/01
Posts: 17954
Loc: Victoria, BC
Originally Posted By: dlee1001
Along with my repertoire, I play the piano for the elderly at a nursing home. The owner of the facility will be writing a letter of recommendation for me, for having done this (I started in 2007 and am still continuing). Would this community service, along with my grades in high school (my total weighted GPA as of now is about 3.7; I'm a junior heading towards my senior year) and my SAT scores (470 in CR, 460 in math, 610 in Writing; will be taking again) give me any more likelihood that I might be accepted at either Juilliard or Peabody?


Of course, you can always try to apply, but I don't think that doing so is realistic in your case. Remember, too, that applications cost money, so applying to schools where it's highly unlikely for you to be accepted is going to be, apart from the experience of applying, a waste of money that might be spent in more realistic pursuits.

While past academic success is important in any application, you have to realize - as some of us have said already - that an important focus of your application to schools such as Juilliard or Peabody will be your repertoire and your experience. You will be competing against piano students who have been studying since they were very young, who have competed - sometimes with great success - in major local and even national competitions, and who have a large - if not vast - repertoire polished to a professional level. Many of them also have considerable performance experience. From what you have said, I do not believe that you are such a student.

As I also wrote before, I am not trying to discourage your interest in pursuing piano, but on the basis of the information you have provided, it is unlikely - highly unlikely - that your application will even be considered.

Set your sights on a college with a music/piano program where you might have a chance of being accepted. That means carefully reading requirements before you apply to such programs and making sure that you can fulfill those requirements.

Regards,
_________________________
BruceD
- - - - -
Estonia 190

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#1450917 - 06/05/10 04:16 PM Re: La Campanella [Re: dlee1001]
Kreisler Offline



Registered: 11/27/02
Posts: 13780
Loc: Iowa City, IA
Originally Posted By: dlee1001
Would this community service, along with my grades in high school (my total weighted GPA as of now is about 3.7; I'm a junior heading towards my senior year) and my SAT scores (470 in CR, 460 in math, 610 in Writing; will be taking again) give me any more likelihood that I might be accepted at either Juilliard or Peabody?


Probably not; at conservatories, it's pretty much all about the audition and your performance experience. Those things could help at a college or university, though.
_________________________
"If we continually try to force a child to do what he is afraid to do, he will become more timid, and will use his brains and energy, not to explore the unknown, but to find ways to avoid the pressures we put on him." (John Holt)

www.pianoped.com
www.youtube.com/user/UIPianoPed

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#1450919 - 06/05/10 04:21 PM Re: La Campanella [Re: Kreisler]
Kreisler Offline



Registered: 11/27/02
Posts: 13780
Loc: Iowa City, IA
And to Carey's list, add the University of Kansas, University of Nebraska, University of Iowa, and the University of Wisconsin-Madison.

They're every bit as good (if not better) than some of the schools on Carey's list. (I have friends on the keyboard departments of those schools and they all have wonderful piano departments.) If I were 18, I'd have no hesitations about auditioning at any of them.
_________________________
"If we continually try to force a child to do what he is afraid to do, he will become more timid, and will use his brains and energy, not to explore the unknown, but to find ways to avoid the pressures we put on him." (John Holt)

www.pianoped.com
www.youtube.com/user/UIPianoPed

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#1450977 - 06/05/10 06:45 PM Re: La Campanella [Re: Kreisler]
carey Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/13/05
Posts: 6294
Loc: Phoenix, Arizona
Originally Posted By: Kreisler
And to Carey's list, add the University of Kansas, University of Nebraska, University of Iowa, and the University of Wisconsin-Madison.

They're every bit as good (if not better) than some of the schools on Carey's list. (I have friends on the keyboard departments of those schools and they all have wonderful piano departments.) If I were 18, I'd have no hesitations about auditioning at any of them.


Kreisler -

Very good suggestions. I should have added those to the list above (which actually was a list I simply copied off of another website). I too was was a tad surprised that those four schools weren't listed - along with University of Missouri at Kansas City.


Edited by carey (06/05/10 06:57 PM)
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#1450980 - 06/05/10 06:56 PM Re: La Campanella [Re: carey]
carey Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/13/05
Posts: 6294
Loc: Phoenix, Arizona
dlee -

Bruce D. is giving you very candid and sound advice.

As for your career goals - it might be wiser at this point for you to simply say that you would like to to eventually "perform and teach." Then start working diligently toward that goal - and see how far you get.


Edited by carey (06/05/10 06:57 PM)
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#1451006 - 06/05/10 07:55 PM Re: La Campanella [Re: carey]
Kreisler Offline



Registered: 11/27/02
Posts: 13780
Loc: Iowa City, IA
A quick word about goals:

The original poster mentioned that it was a goal of theirs to be a piano professor at a major conservatory. It got me thinking about the nature of goals - what's realistic and what's not. Looking at my own life, and looking at the careers of people I know who are university professors, independent teachers and performers, I think that certain goals are helpful, while others are not.

An example of an unhelpful goal is "to be a professor at Juilliard." I say this because it's a goal that someone else has to give you. You have very little control over the decisions of others, and trying to be what others want is a sure way to shut the door on personal and artistic growth.

A far more useful goal is "to develop a interpretive approach that helps connect the music of Beethoven with modern audiences." Another might be "to become an effective teacher who can successfully recruit and train excellent performers." These are examples of goals that you DO have control over. Furthermore, when you achieve these kinds of goals, the people who make hiring decisions at Juilliard will be more likely to notice you.

I once taught an interdisciplinary arts class for undergraduates. I asked all 70 of them "Where do you see yourself after graduation?"

The majority answered using the word "be." "I want to be a financial planner." "I want to be a father/mother." "I want to be an engineer."

Far fewer answered using active verbs. "I want to help people with their finances." "I want to raise children." "I want to design aircraft."

I know this is mostly a semantic argument, but I think it's important. I don't think Picasso wanted to be an artist. I think he wanted to paint. Rubinstein didn't want to be a concert pianist, he wanted to play the piano for people.

I have a friend who's an excellent physician. He doesn't like "being a doctor." He likes "thinking about diagnostic problems."

So to our original poster (and the many out there who have similar questions), I'd strongly encourage you to set goals that are under your control and can be stated using interesting verbs. Stop trying to "be a Juilliard student" and go play the piano.
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#1451069 - 06/05/10 10:05 PM Re: La Campanella [Re: Kreisler]
LisztAddict Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/12/05
Posts: 2896
Loc: Florida
Well put Kreisler!

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#1451150 - 06/06/10 12:07 AM Re: La Campanella [Re: BruceD]
Mark_C Online   content
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Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 19737
Loc: New York
I think you put it well.
Hoping that this won't be seen as unkind, I have to say that it seems he's aiming a bit high at this moment and doesn't have a fully realistic view of the picture.

Is it unkind to say things that might be discouraging? Not necessarily -- if we're pretty sure that we're right, and I think I'm pretty sure. Giving a dose of reality can help someone target himself better, and avoid disappointment and failure.

It's possible that over the course of time -- maybe a few years -- he could elevate himself to the point that his current ambitions would be reasonable. But at the moment, it seems like he's trying to skip a few steps without knowing it.
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#1451151 - 06/06/10 12:13 AM Re: La Campanella [Re: Kreisler]
Mark_C Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 19737
Loc: New York
Originally Posted By: Kreisler
And to Carey's list, add the University of Kansas, University of Nebraska, University of Iowa, and the University of Wisconsin-Madison.....

For at least a couple of those places, I think higher academic credentials would probably be needed, almost regardless of the audition.
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