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#1454674 - 06/11/10 02:04 PM Wikipedia?
vladimiroir Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/06/10
Posts: 192
Hello this may not be the place but i always wonder who wrote the biographies of chopin,liszt , horowitz, polini etc? and i noticed that some is shorter than other especially rafal blechavz.. do they wrote it themselves? how about the information of pieces? when i browsed through the list of compositions by chopin some of them have information about it, some dont( less popular pieces).. it would be great to see all of them with information... again who wrote all of those information? sorry if this is a silly question
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#1454679 - 06/11/10 02:15 PM Re: Wikipedia? [Re: vladimiroir]
BruceD Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/26/01
Posts: 17670
Loc: Victoria, BC
Not a silly question, I don't think. I do believe that one has to take with "a grain of salt" information that one reads on Wikipedia. Not all who contribute or who edit articles are necessarily experts in the field.

Read this article for more information :

Wikipedia Editors

Regards,
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BruceD
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Estonia 190 in satin ebony
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#1454680 - 06/11/10 02:16 PM Re: Wikipedia? [Re: BruceD]
vladimiroir Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/06/10
Posts: 192
Thank You BruceD:)))
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currently working on:
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#1454681 - 06/11/10 02:16 PM Re: Wikipedia? [Re: vladimiroir]
Mark_C Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 19292
Loc: New York
Whoever wants to.
Those pages are by "the public."
Sometimes it might be by the person him/herself or at least some of it.

If you think something doesn't have enough, you can add to it.
If you think something in there is wrong, you can delete it.

Of course someone else can come along and put back what you deleted, but that's how life is sometimes. smile
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"Everything I say is my opinion, including the facts." :-)

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#1454687 - 06/11/10 02:36 PM Re: Wikipedia? [Re: BruceD]
Horowitzian Offline
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/18/08
Posts: 8453
Originally Posted By: BruceD
Not a silly question, I don't think. I do believe that one has to take with "a grain of salt" information that one reads on Wikipedia. Not all who contribute or who edit articles are necessarily experts in the field.

Read this article for more information :

Wikipedia Editors

Regards,


Particularly in articles about people and pop culture. However, the science/math/engineering articles are actually quite reliable because they are regularly canvassed by professionals in the respective fields.
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Close only counts in horseshoes, hand grenades, and nuclear weapons.

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#1454692 - 06/11/10 02:42 PM Re: Wikipedia? [Re: Mark_C]
Chopinist Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/02/10
Posts: 162
From what I've seen, I believe that many (if not most) of the contributors do have expert knowledge in their fields of interest. The unfortunate implication that "anyone can edit" at Wikipedia is that it's a free-for-all strewn with vandalism or willful inaccuracies. It's not.

People with an obsessive concern for certain subjects are committed to (and vigilant about) integrity and accuracy of content. (Every article has a "discussion page"; just check out the back-and-forth that transpires even for wildly abstruse or mildly controversial topics.) Standards of form and style are closely adhered to; the lifespan of nonsense (or even unsourced, unsupported or self-serving statements) can be expected to be very brief.

While I've never made a substantive contribution to Wikipedia, I've done plenty of editing and proofreading there. I don't think claims about the illegitimacy of information on the site reflect the experiences of people who actually use Wikipedia and have built it into the resource that it is.

Of course, one shouldn't be surprised if an article about, say, Britney Spears reflects different standard of scholarship and writing ability to the one about Chopin. smile
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"Whereof one cannot speak, thereof one must remain silent." —Wittgenstein

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#1454694 - 06/11/10 02:48 PM Re: Wikipedia? [Re: Chopinist]
gooddog Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/08/08
Posts: 4669
Loc: Seattle area, WA
Because authorship is questionable and editing fairly open on Wikipedia, high school students, (in every school in which I have taught) are not permitted to use it as a resource in research papers. It's a great way to look something up quickly, but is not considered reliable enough to cite in a formal paper.
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Deborah

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#1454695 - 06/11/10 02:49 PM Re: Wikipedia? [Re: gooddog]
Horowitzian Offline
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/18/08
Posts: 8453
Originally Posted By: gooddog
Because authorship and is questionable on Wikipedia, high school students, (in every school in which I have taught) are not permitted to use it as a resource in research papers. It's a great way to look something up quickly, but is not considered reliable enough.


True, but most well written articles cite outside sources which can be useful during preliminary research.
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Close only counts in horseshoes, hand grenades, and nuclear weapons.

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#1454700 - 06/11/10 02:53 PM Re: Wikipedia? [Re: gooddog]
Chopinist Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/02/10
Posts: 162
Originally Posted By: gooddog
Because authorship and is questionable on Wikipedia, high school students, (in every school in which I have taught) are not permitted to use it as a resource in research papers. It's a great way to look something up quickly, but is not considered reliable enough to cite in a formal paper.

I think most students would be savvy enough to cite the references found within Wikipedia rather than Wikipedia itself, in which case it's unlikely a teacher would even know.
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"Whereof one cannot speak, thereof one must remain silent." —Wittgenstein

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#1454714 - 06/11/10 03:26 PM Re: Wikipedia? [Re: Chopinist]
Monica K. Offline

Platinum Supporter until Dec 31 2012


Registered: 08/10/05
Posts: 17699
Loc: Lexington, Kentucky
Originally Posted By: Chopinist
Originally Posted By: gooddog
Because authorship and is questionable on Wikipedia, high school students, (in every school in which I have taught) are not permitted to use it as a resource in research papers. It's a great way to look something up quickly, but is not considered reliable enough to cite in a formal paper.

I think most students would be savvy enough to cite the references found within Wikipedia rather than Wikipedia itself, in which case it's unlikely a teacher would even know.


Chopinist, you'd be amazed. Every semester I have college undergraduates, who really ought to know better, cite Wikipedia and are vastly disappointed when I inform them that they have to find peer-reviewed journal articles for their sources. Worse yet, I usually get about a student a year who merely copies and pastes huge chunks of text from Wikipedia and then is vastly disappointed when I catch the plagiarism. help
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Mason & Hamlin A -- 91997
My YouTube channel: http://www.youtube.com/pianomonica

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#1454719 - 06/11/10 03:37 PM Re: Wikipedia? [Re: Monica K.]
BDB Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/07/03
Posts: 20766
Loc: Oakland
Of course, Wikipedia is peer-reviewed. It just depends on who the peers are, just as with any other source.
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#1454722 - 06/11/10 03:43 PM Re: Wikipedia? [Re: Monica K.]
jesseoffy Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/16/10
Posts: 240
Yeah - my dad (a teacher) asked me one day if he could check a student's work. Together we went on Wikipedia's page about some Oil thing and there was the guy's entire essay... Best of all, my dad doesn't teach anything nearly related to what the kid wrote about. smile
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Chopin, Brahms, Schubert, Rachmaninov

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#1454739 - 06/11/10 04:31 PM Re: Wikipedia? [Re: jesseoffy]
Hank Drake Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/31/01
Posts: 1652
Loc: Cleveland, Ohio
Wikipedia is essentially a collaborative endeavor. In most cases, the best pages have the broadest history of editing.

I've edited quite a bit at Wikipedia, making major revisions to the Vladimir Horowitz and Arthur Rubinstein bio and discography articles, and basically rewriting the Nyiregyhazi article - along with many on non-musical subjects.

Generally speaking, the more well known the subject, the greater the incidence of vandalism. This has been a particlar problem with the Christopher Reeve page, more than five years after his death.
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The composers want performers be imaginative, in the direction of their thinking--not just robots, who execute orders.
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#1454762 - 06/11/10 05:25 PM Re: Wikipedia? [Re: Monica K.]
gooddog Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/08/08
Posts: 4669
Loc: Seattle area, WA
Originally Posted By: Monica K.
Originally Posted By: Chopinist
Originally Posted By: gooddog
Because authorship and is questionable on Wikipedia, high school students, (in every school in which I have taught) are not permitted to use it as a resource in research papers. It's a great way to look something up quickly, but is not considered reliable enough to cite in a formal paper.

I think most students would be savvy enough to cite the references found within Wikipedia rather than Wikipedia itself, in which case it's unlikely a teacher would even know.


Chopinist, you'd be amazed. Every semester I have college undergraduates, who really ought to know better, cite Wikipedia and are vastly disappointed when I inform them that they have to find peer-reviewed journal articles for their sources. Worse yet, I usually get about a student a year who merely copies and pastes huge chunks of text from Wikipedia and then is vastly disappointed when I catch the plagiarism. help
So true. An experienced teacher can easily pick out writing styles, vocabulary and grammar that do not match their students' abilities. I catch 'em every time.
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Best regards,

Deborah

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#1454768 - 06/11/10 05:40 PM Re: Wikipedia? [Re: Monica K.]
Nikolas Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/26/07
Posts: 4994
Loc: Europe
Originally Posted By: Monica K.
Originally Posted By: Chopinist
Originally Posted By: gooddog
Because authorship and is questionable on Wikipedia, high school students, (in every school in which I have taught) are not permitted to use it as a resource in research papers. It's a great way to look something up quickly, but is not considered reliable enough to cite in a formal paper.

I think most students would be savvy enough to cite the references found within Wikipedia rather than Wikipedia itself, in which case it's unlikely a teacher would even know.


Chopinist, you'd be amazed. Every semester I have college undergraduates, who really ought to know better, cite Wikipedia and are vastly disappointed when I inform them that they have to find peer-reviewed journal articles for their sources. Worse yet, I usually get about a student a year who merely copies and pastes huge chunks of text from Wikipedia and then is vastly disappointed when I catch the plagiarism. help
You see...

if it's a quote, it's a quote. I have used a quote before, coming from wikipedia, itself coming from elsewhere and so on... I can't really be blamed, since I used wikipedia as a kind of database and nothing more.

Wiki is useful for fast searching, but indeed the amount of *ahem* in there is quite alarming sometimes!

As an academic, the one thing that bothers me with wikipedia is the easiness of reach. It's just one google away from "search term + wiki" and you're there. Too easy. Too basic. Too informal. and too wrong sometimes! If you are writing an academic essay of any level, better be prepared to visit the unis library a few times and I'm ready to bet that the same info will be found in there, only quoted correctly, explained better, etc...
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#1454782 - 06/11/10 06:41 PM Re: Wikipedia? [Re: Hank Drake]
Mark_C Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 19292
Loc: New York
Originally Posted By: Hank Drake
.....I've edited quite a bit at Wikipedia, making major revisions to the Vladimir Horowitz and Arthur Rubinstein bio and discography articles, and basically rewriting the Nyiregyhazi article.....

By coincidence (although I suppose not total) smile when I saw this thread, it jogged my mind to take a look at the Horowitz page to see what it might be. I was surprised I hadn't thought to do it before.

I was impressed. I'm not surprised to learn that people like you helped make it what it is.
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"Everything I say is my opinion, including the facts." :-)

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#1454785 - 06/11/10 06:48 PM Re: Wikipedia? [Re: vladimiroir]
FunkyLlama Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/09/09
Posts: 359
Originally Posted By: vladimiroir
it would be great to see all of them with information...
'And another thing, why don't they just print more money?' and yes, it's a silly question. You could've found the answer very rapidly yourself without wasting our time.

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#1454787 - 06/11/10 06:55 PM Re: Wikipedia? [Re: Mark_C]
packa Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/05/05
Posts: 1397
Loc: Dallas, TX
Wikipedia is not a bad place to start your search for information; but it's a bad place to stop looking further. The articles are all over the map: good, bad, outstanding, and the bottom of the barrel. Unfortunately, the articles aren't tagged with a quality score, so you never quite know what you're getting. The other major problem is the footnotes and bibliographic links. Many are cryptic, outdated, dead links, or links to other web pages of unknown provenance and currency.
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Paul Buchanan
Estonia L168 #1718

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#1454879 - 06/11/10 10:51 PM Re: Wikipedia? [Re: Mark_C]
al-mahed Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/09/09
Posts: 769
Loc: Rio de Janeiro
Originally Posted By: Mark_C

Of course someone else can come along and put back what you deleted, but that's how life is sometimes. smile


Hahaha, free shrink session! laugh
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Yamaha P155 Digital Piano
Learning since ~ JUN/JUL-2009

Working on: music

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#1454925 - 06/12/10 01:03 AM Re: Wikipedia? [Re: al-mahed]
Mark_C Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 19292
Loc: New York
dam rite! smile

Martin Mull (who else remembers him??) said that his shrink used to end every session with, "Well ain't that the way it is."

I've never used the line professionally, but personally it comes in handy all the time. smile
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"Everything I say is my opinion, including the facts." :-)

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#1455036 - 06/12/10 10:00 AM Re: Wikipedia? [Re: Mark_C]
Damon Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/22/06
Posts: 5916
Loc: St. Louis area
Originally Posted By: Mark_C
dam rite! smile

Martin Mull (who else remembers him??) said that his shrink used to end every session with, "Well ain't that the way it is."

Fernwood Tonight? Who doesn't?
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Prepositions are not words to end sentences with.

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#1455079 - 06/12/10 11:38 AM Re: Wikipedia? [Re: Mark_C]
Kreisler Offline



Registered: 11/27/02
Posts: 13706
Loc: Iowa City, IA
Originally Posted By: Mark_C
Martin Mull (who else remembers him??) said that his shrink used to end every session with, "Well ain't that the way it is."

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"If we continually try to force a child to do what he is afraid to do, he will become more timid, and will use his brains and energy, not to explore the unknown, but to find ways to avoid the pressures we put on him." (John Holt)

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#1455084 - 06/12/10 11:50 AM Re: Wikipedia? [Re: Kreisler]
Mark_C Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 19292
Loc: New York
Yup -- that's just the way it is. smile

(Thanks for the song, never really heard it.)
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"Everything I say is my opinion, including the facts." :-)

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#1455085 - 06/12/10 11:52 AM Re: Wikipedia? [Re: Damon]
Mark_C Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 19292
Loc: New York
Originally Posted By: Damon
.....Fernwood Tonight? Who doesn't?

.....and I never really saw that show.....I knew him from other stuff.

I was surprised he never got a much bigger show, like "Tonight" after Johnny Carson (where he had guest-hosted a lot) or at least one of the 12:30 network shows. I expected it.

I guess they considered him "too quirky." But then what about Letterman.......
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#1455196 - 06/12/10 03:13 PM Re: Wikipedia? [Re: Mark_C]
Damon Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/22/06
Posts: 5916
Loc: St. Louis area
Originally Posted By: Mark_C
Originally Posted By: Damon
.....Fernwood Tonight? Who doesn't?

.....and I never really saw that show.....I knew him from other stuff.

I was surprised he never got a much bigger show, like "Tonight" after Johnny Carson (where he had guest-hosted a lot) or at least one of the 12:30 network shows. I expected it.

I guess they considered him "too quirky." But then what about Letterman.......


He might have not wanted a straight talk show. He was in several sitcoms (Roseanne being one of the longest running). I just remember him mainly from Mary Hartman, Mary Hartman, Fernwood tonight, and America tonight.
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