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#1456596 - 06/14/10 05:34 PM Re: Open letter to Mr. Baxter regarding the ban of Bill Bremmer [Re: BDB]
Phil D Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/15/10
Posts: 551
Loc: London, England
We spoke before, pppat ( here), about the difficulty people have in separating the personality from the issue on this forum. The EBVT threads rub people the wrong way because of the personality of the guy who invented it, and the way he presents it. This shouldn't, and doesn't, take anything away from the validity of his temperament or any other of his professional activities. This I'm sure many people can agree with. However, when his posting style and online personality consistently breaks forum rules, causing rifts and tensions within a professional community board, he should be banned in this way. The moderators have acted exactly as they should, and I support their decision.
For those using this thread to criticise or support the 'cause' of EBVT, it is irrelevant. The issue here IS personality.


Edited by Not a Mongoose (06/14/10 05:35 PM)
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Phil Dickson
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#1456605 - 06/14/10 05:41 PM Re: Open letter to Mr. Baxter regarding the ban of Bill Bremmer [Re: BDB]
Jerry Groot RPT Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/07/07
Posts: 6828
Loc: Grand Rapids Michigan
Quote:
Being mean to people? Can you honestly read the history of posts regarding EBVT III, or anything else Bill has written, and say that he has not been provoked? Can you honestly say that Bill has not endured criticism from others verging on slander? There has been enough name calling and mean spirited barbs to go around, back and forth, for sure. From my reading of it, people dished it out, and Bill dished it back.


Quote:

Dale, I'm conveniently uninformed about the missing messages, but I will say that there's been one particular yappy little dog nipping at Bill's heels saying that the ET tuning that's good enough for his soccer moms and church pianists should be good enough for anyone, and if Bill finally decided to kick him in the teeth, good for him. The little dog is not banned, I notice.


Those were my very first thoughts. I have seen more provocation towards Bill's posts than perhaps any others. Yet, what I have not seen, are the people that do the provoking, being punished or banned. For the most part it seems that they are allowed to continue to provoke.

I figure this way. If you don't like the EBVT III then don't read about it. I skip out on a lot of what is said about it but that doesn't mean that I am not keeping an open mind to other possibilities in this field. I am..

As for the EBVT III, I've also learned that I don't have to use it verbatim. I can tweak it to my preference as I go along as we can do with any tuning.

It is nice that Bill was not banned completely. He does have a lot to contribute even if there are things that not everyone agrees with at all times.
_________________________
Jerry Groot RPT
Piano Technicians Guild
Grand Rapids, Michigan
www.grootpiano.com

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#1456607 - 06/14/10 05:43 PM Re: Open letter to Mr. Baxter regarding the ban of Bill Bremmer [Re: Phil D]
pppat Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/09/08
Posts: 1195
Loc: Jakobstad, Finland
Yes, Phil, I remember that discussion very well. And I agree with you on this being about personality. Still, I disagree on the decision of the moderators. I consider it unjust - when I read the many flaming disputes between Bill and others, to me either all deserve a ban, or then none of them. The line is clearly drawn, so to speak, but it's not horizontal. Or however one should put it.

BTW, I myself am a Vespaing tuner as of now smile
_________________________
Patrick Wingren, RPT

Senior Lecturer (jazz piano, composition, music theory, conducting) @ Novia University of Applied Sciences, Jakobstad, Finland
- - - -
Dedicated to learning the craft of tuning. Getting better.

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#1456614 - 06/14/10 05:49 PM Re: Open letter to Mr. Baxter regarding the ban of Bill Bremmer [Re: Phil D]
Chopinist Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/02/10
Posts: 162
Originally Posted By: Not a Mongoose
We spoke before, pppat ( here), about the difficulty people have in separating the personality from the issue on this forum. The EBVT threads rub people the wrong way because of the personality of the guy who invented it, and the way he presents it. This shouldn't, and doesn't, take anything away from the validity of his temperament or any other of his professional activities. This I'm sure many people can agree with. However, when his posting style and online personality consistently breaks forum rules, causing rifts and tensions within a professional community board, he should be banned in this way. The moderators have acted exactly as they should, and I support their decision.
For those using this thread to criticise or support the 'cause' of EBVT, it is irrelevant. The issue here IS personality.

So people's personalities should be policed, then?

Respect is a two-way street, and maybe Mr. Bremmer gave as good as he got.
_________________________
"Whereof one cannot speak, thereof one must remain silent." —Wittgenstein

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#1456620 - 06/14/10 05:57 PM Re: Open letter to Mr. Baxter regarding the ban of Bill Bremmer [Re: Chopinist]
eweiss Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/28/09
Posts: 2393
Loc: Beautiful San Diego, CA
Thought this might help...



Hint: He's thinking about getting his piano tuned. smile
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http://www.quiescencemusic.com

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#1456634 - 06/14/10 06:07 PM Re: Open letter to Mr. Baxter regarding the ban of Bill Bremmer [Re: eweiss]
Grandpianoman Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/12/05
Posts: 2350
Loc: Portland, Oregon
Now if this does not calm the nerves of everyone here, I don't know what will. I am certainly in a serene mood after that.

I would like to contact Mr. Carey, and suggest he try EBVT III.

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#1456669 - 06/14/10 06:48 PM Re: Open letter to Mr. Baxter regarding the ban of Bill Bremmer [Re: DoelKees]
Ken Knapp Offline



Registered: 04/18/06
Posts: 2239
Loc: Pennsylvania
Originally Posted By: DoelKees
Originally Posted By: Ken Knapp
...I could close the topic. I could make it disappear. But I am not sure either is the RIGHT thing to do. Besides, I have seen numerous times when a topic is closed or moved off forum that someone just starts a new one.

I find it shocking that you would even CONSIDER such actions.

Kees


Kees,

I really don't know you. You could be the greatest guy in the world. But you are getting on my last nerve.

Ken
_________________________
Ken

Piano Organ Depot
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#1456862 - 06/15/10 01:41 AM Re: Open letter to Mr. Baxter regarding the ban of Bill Bremmer [Re: Ken Knapp]
DoelKees Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/01/10
Posts: 1738
Loc: Vancouver, Canada
Originally Posted By: Ken Knapp
Originally Posted By: DoelKees
Originally Posted By: Ken Knapp
...I could close the topic. I could make it disappear. But I am not sure either is the RIGHT thing to do. Besides, I have seen numerous times when a topic is closed or moved off forum that someone just starts a new one.

I find it shocking that you would even CONSIDER such actions.

Kees


Kees,

I really don't know you. You could be the greatest guy in the world. But you are getting on my last nerve.

Ken

Sorry you feel that way Ken. What have I done to upset you this time?

I'm not really sure how your comment contributes to this thread or what you want from me.

Kees

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#1456864 - 06/15/10 01:42 AM Re: Open letter to Mr. Baxter regarding the ban of Bill Bremmer [Re: BDB]
keyboardklutz Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/21/07
Posts: 10856
Loc: London, UK (though if it's Aug...
Originally Posted By: BDB
We also learn the undesirability of having one's ball taken away by those who do not play fair.
More like a kick in the balls if you ask me! (also unfair)


Edited by keyboardklutz (06/15/10 01:52 AM)
Edit Reason: humour being, of course, The Original Derailer!
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#1456867 - 06/15/10 01:56 AM Re: Open letter to Mr. Baxter regarding the ban of Bill Bremmer [Re: DoelKees]
Ken Knapp Offline



Registered: 04/18/06
Posts: 2239
Loc: Pennsylvania
Originally Posted By: DoelKees

Sorry you feel that way Ken. What have I done to upset you this time?

I'm not really sure how your comment contributes to this thread or what you want from me.

Kees


Don't worry, I'll get over it.

Ken
_________________________
Ken

Piano Organ Depot
http://www.pianoorgandepot.com
Hammond Organ Technician
http://www.tonewheeltech.com
Vice President - MITA, International
http://www.mitatechs.org
http://www.facebook.com/MITATechs

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#1456869 - 06/15/10 02:13 AM Re: Open letter to Mr. Baxter regarding the ban of Bill Brem [Re: Dave Stahl]
theJourney Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/22/07
Posts: 3946
Loc: Banned
Originally Posted By: Dave Stahl
Maybe it's bordering on sacrilege in this forum, but I'll say it anyway: it's only pianos, folks. It's not a war (though that's not always evident), it's not a hurricane, an oil slick, or any other life or death situation. It's pianos. Ranting, belittling, and otherwise blatantly crossing lines when it comes to common decency are unnecessary within the discussions here.

Maybe another forum should be included: "Piano Free-For-All Forum," where all the gloves come off...



That is actually not a bad suggestion. Some forums have such septic tanks where threads are moved to that are not longer on topic for the forum or where certain posters who are incapable of civil discourse are restricted to.

Making people edit their own inappropriate posts or having them edited or deleted by the moderators is unfortunately a necessity in most successful forums. Giving repeat offenders time outs or suspensions is also common (necessary) practice.




Edited by BB Player (06/15/10 11:06 AM)
Edit Reason: Off topic political rant deleted.

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#1456890 - 06/15/10 04:20 AM Re: Open letter to Mr. Baxter regarding the ban of Bill Brem [Re: theJourney]
Mark R. Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/31/09
Posts: 2025
Loc: Pretoria, South Africa
Pat,

I've been at the receiving end of one of Bill's flaming attacks (which was later removed by way of editing, either by himself or by a moderator - I can't remember). All I did was voice some doubts and ask some pertinent questions about the sound of the remote keys, e.g. D flat maj (e.g. a melody such as the 2nd movement of Dvorak's 9th symphony). In NO way did I provoke Bill with rude comments or prejudice of any kind. Neither did I criticise his temperament.

And I have not been the only one unduly flamed by Bill.

It is therefore not fair to say that Bill only dished out as he received.

It would be more fair to say this: by all appearances, Bill has great difficulty in separating the matter at hand (in this case a temperament that he designed) from the person at hand (i.e. himself). [EDIT: Phil has already alluded to this.] If his temperament receives positive feedback, he is happy and literally basks in the sun. But if his temperament receives negative feedback, or simply a few questions, he often takes this as a personal affront and goes into a raging defensive-offensive behavior.

We've all heard the adage, "Play the ball, not the man." Well, it appears to me that Bill has great difficulty in doing this.

Yes, granted, Bill has also been at the receiving end at times, but from my own experience I can say that most of the personal attacks originate from Bill himself. (Although he would probably disagree, as he appears to see himself as a victim.)

Yes, granted, Bill did apologize to me later, but why is it necessary to explode into flames first, then back-pedal and apologize later? Methinks that this is exactly the kind of behavior that the moderators are trying to curb, and for that, I laud their decision.

I hope that Bill will return to the forum after his time-out expires, and that he will renew his efforts to play the ball, not the men (and women).


Edited by Mark R. (06/15/10 06:53 AM)
Edit Reason: given in post.
_________________________
Autodidact interested in piano technology.

1922 49" Zimmermann, project piano.
1970 44" Ibach, daily music maker.

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#1456947 - 06/15/10 08:43 AM Re: Open letter to Mr. Baxter regarding the ban of Bill Brem [Re: theJourney]
Monica K. Offline

Platinum Supporter until Dec 31 2012


Registered: 08/10/05
Posts: 17778
Loc: Lexington, Kentucky
Originally Posted By: theJourney
Originally Posted By: Dave Stahl
Maybe it's bordering on sacrilege in this forum, but I'll say it anyway: it's only pianos, folks. It's not a war (though that's not always evident), it's not a hurricane, an oil slick, or any other life or death situation. It's pianos. Ranting, belittling, and otherwise blatantly crossing lines when it comes to common decency are unnecessary within the discussions here.

Maybe another forum should be included: "Piano Free-For-All Forum," where all the gloves come off...



That is actually not a bad suggestion. Some forums have such septic tanks where threads are moved to that are not longer on topic for the forum or where certain posters who are incapable of civil discourse are restricted to.



PW used to have such a forum, called the Coffee Room. Turned out to be a bad idea indeed. Frank eventually had to shut it down because it got out of hand. Browsing through the Coffee Room archives you will quickly see what happens when people are free to make ad hominem attacks. eek
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My YouTube channel: http://www.youtube.com/pianomonica

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#1456950 - 06/15/10 08:47 AM Re: Open letter to Mr. Baxter regarding the ban of Bill Brem [Re: Mark R.]
UnrightTooner Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/13/08
Posts: 4944
Loc: Bradford County, PA
I got into this Topic late because I usually stay away from the internet on weekends. So let me add this after having time to think about the situation.

Bill manipulated the Forum Administration into giving him a time out. Those that are saying that the time out is unfair are being enablers for others that also wish to act like adolescents.
_________________________
Jeff Deutschle
Part-Time Tuner
Who taught the first chicken how to peck?

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#1456951 - 06/15/10 08:48 AM Re: Open letter to Mr. Baxter regarding the ban of Bill Brem [Re: Monica K.]
theJourney Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/22/07
Posts: 3946
Loc: Banned
Originally Posted By: Monica K.
Originally Posted By: theJourney
Originally Posted By: Dave Stahl
Maybe it's bordering on sacrilege in this forum, but I'll say it anyway: it's only pianos, folks. It's not a war (though that's not always evident), it's not a hurricane, an oil slick, or any other life or death situation. It's pianos. Ranting, belittling, and otherwise blatantly crossing lines when it comes to common decency are unnecessary within the discussions here.

Maybe another forum should be included: "Piano Free-For-All Forum," where all the gloves come off...



That is actually not a bad suggestion. Some forums have such septic tanks where threads are moved to that are not longer on topic for the forum or where certain posters who are incapable of civil discourse are restricted to.



PW used to have such a forum, called the Coffee Room. Turned out to be a bad idea indeed. Frank eventually had to shut it down because it got out of hand. Browsing through the Coffee Room archives you will quickly see what happens when people are free to make ad hominem attacks. eek


Ad hominem attacks should never be allowed and repeated offence is a good reason for permanent suspension in my book.

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#1456963 - 06/15/10 09:50 AM Re: Open letter to Mr. Baxter regarding the ban of Bill Brem [Re: theJourney]
rocket88 Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/04/06
Posts: 3161
Originally Posted By: theJourney

Even functioning democracies do not have unlimited free speech! Let alone those countries that claim they are the light to the world but haven't been representative democracies for decades.

In Europe, for example, hate speech is illegal, and can result in prosecution.

In America, one has to obey unwritten political correctness norms and watch one's every word as if under Stalinism, even when ambushed by a teenager, less one be destroyed by a malicious, vigilante posse as we have seen in the case of the Zionist Rabbi who orchestrated the pogrom against veteran White House reporter Helen Thomas.


This thread has deteriorated to a new low when bashing America is introduced into it.

We do need a "septic tank" after all.
_________________________
Music teacher and piano player.

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#1456976 - 06/15/10 10:27 AM Re: Open letter to Mr. Baxter regarding the ban of Bill Brem [Re: rocket88]
Ralph Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/09/01
Posts: 1299
Loc: Delaware (slower/lower)
Originally Posted By: rocket88
Originally Posted By: theJourney

Even functioning democracies do not have unlimited free speech! Let alone those countries that claim they are the light to the world but haven't been representative democracies for decades.

In Europe, for example, hate speech is illegal, and can result in prosecution.

In America, one has to obey unwritten political correctness norms and watch one's every word as if under Stalinism, even when ambushed by a teenager, less one be destroyed by a malicious, vigilante posse as we have seen in the case of the Zionist Rabbi who orchestrated the pogrom against veteran White House reporter Helen Thomas.


This thread has deteriorated to a new low when bashing America is introduced into it.

We do need a "septic tank" after all.



But in America he can bash it or love it all he wants. No one has the right to ban him for doing either. To compare US constitutional rights to Stalism is to reveal how little one knows about Stalin.
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Do or do not. There is no try.

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#1456983 - 06/15/10 10:38 AM Re: Open letter to Mr. Baxter regarding the ban of Bill Brem [Re: UnrightTooner]
Chopinist Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/02/10
Posts: 162
Originally Posted By: UnrightTooner
Bill manipulated the Forum Administration into giving him a time out.

That comes as a surprise to me, and I'd be interested in an explanation of this statement.

How did he do that exactly, and with what sort of leverage? Why would the forum administration accede to being manipulated when this is private property on which they call the shots?

Unless there's clear evidence of "manipulation," that assertion discredits both Mr. Bremmer and Piano World management.
_________________________
"Whereof one cannot speak, thereof one must remain silent." —Wittgenstein

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#1456993 - 06/15/10 10:47 AM Re: Open letter to Mr. Baxter regarding the ban of Bill Bremmer [Re: Ken Knapp]
UnrightTooner Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/13/08
Posts: 4944
Loc: Bradford County, PA
Manipulation is the only thing that I can call what Bill did. He threw down the gauntlet, double dog dared the Administration and forced their hand knowing exactly what the outcome would be. Those that are criticizing the Administration’s actions are being Bill's dupes:

Originally Posted By: Ken Knapp
Frank Baxter, the owner of Piano World, did the actual banning.

Patrick, Bill is fortunate to have a friend such as you. But I would venture a guess that you've never been on the receiving end of Bill's sarcasm when he decides to go after you.

Nobody gets suspended on here for disagreeing with people. They do get suspended and sometimes banned for name calling and being mean to others.

The issue with Bill was discussed between Frank and the moderators before Bill was banned. About a year ago Bill was warned for the very same behavior. He chose to ignore the warning. That time he also got a month's suspension.

This time Bill was also warned because of his behavior towards another member. He once again chose to ignore the warning. So again he has received a one month suspension. In his response to the warning he even invited us to ban him from the forum.

Had Bill shown even a hint of being sorry about his treatment of another member, you all would be sitting here swapping tuning stories. Instead he decided he'd rather be suspended.

Bill is fortunate. Our policy is usually to permanently ban a person once they have received a warning, ignored it, and then been suspended. But Frank cut him some slack.

Patrick, thanks for your concern. Bill will be back. And none of this occurred without discussion of the matter between Frank Baxter and the moderators.

Ken

_________________________
Jeff Deutschle
Part-Time Tuner
Who taught the first chicken how to peck?

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#1456998 - 06/15/10 10:54 AM Re: Open letter to Mr. Baxter regarding the ban of Bill Bremmer [Re: UnrightTooner]
Chopinist Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/02/10
Posts: 162
Thanks for the clarification, but I still think choosing to characterize that as "manipulation" sullies both parties here.
_________________________
"Whereof one cannot speak, thereof one must remain silent." —Wittgenstein

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#1457004 - 06/15/10 11:00 AM Re: Open letter to Mr. Baxter regarding the ban of Bill Brem [Re: rocket88]
Emmery Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/02/08
Posts: 2401
Loc: Niagara Region, On. Canada
Septic tanks and coffee rooms only work if everybody discloses their real identity. The main issue is that someone will always be held liable for injurious statements. If you can post unidentified, do your damage, and then disappear to be never found again, injured parties will go after who is left, the forum owner(s).

Helen will be missed by many who shared her left brain inspired views.

Originally Posted By: keyboardklutz
Originally Posted By: BDB
We also learn the undesirability of having one's ball taken away by those who do not play fair.
More like a kick in the balls if you ask me! (also unfair)


keyboardklutz: is there any particular age group of children or particular social class of people you feel a comment like this is suitable for?

Grandpianoman, I keep my tool box light and only carry the tools I need for day to day work. It took many years to get it this way and I did so by keeping track of what tasks come up and what customers require of me. I look at the temperament the same way. If I get asked to tune EBVT or any historical temperament enough, I'll learn to tune it and carry it as an additional tool. Its just that I have never been asked.

My comment to continue with the thread was not a blessing, but thank you for the sarcastic compliment.

BTW, unlike someone else you constantly refer to as creating "magical" tunings, I'm simply a mere mortal that hasn't dwelved much in that stuff. I'm not sure if I could conjure or baffle with the same enchanting effect. I guess I could do a tuning, bill it on my invoice as "magical", and leave some charred dice and chicken feathers on the piano when I leave...
_________________________
Piano Technician
George Brown College /85
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#1457010 - 06/15/10 11:12 AM Re: Open letter to Mr. Baxter regarding the ban of Bill Brem [Re: Chopinist]
Jeff Clef Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/05/08
Posts: 4417
Loc: San Jose, CA
"To compare US constitutional rights to Stalism is to reveal how little one knows about Stalin."

Alex Ross's 2007 book, The Rest is Noise: Listening to the Twentieth Century, has some very telling chapters about the situation of musicians in Stalin-era Russia.

News reports a few months back of a survey, asking Americans questions about judicial decisions based on Constitutional principles, revealed that most of the respondents not only did not know what the Constitution says but were opposed to it when they learned.

More than a little scary, if not exactly surprising. Still, that is not at all the same as the operations of a totalitarian government.

If anything, it revealed that human impulses need some brake on them lest society's car end up in the ditch or crashing through the guard rail and flying off the cliff. Moderation, in other words. It doesn't take much reading on these forums to see that more than a few threads end up in a death spiral of personal attacks... or, yes, the septic tank. People get carried away; when they can't stop themselves, someone else has got to stop them, sometimes.

There's road rage, and then there's the smoldering wreck being hauled away on the flatbed; the drivers hauled away to the morgue. Or, there's the time-out that gives the hot tempers a chance to cool down... and everyone walks away from it.

Beating up on Ken does not really answer the problem of people's lost sense of personal responsibility for their own behavior. To my mind, it reveals it, if anything.
_________________________
Clef


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#1457017 - 06/15/10 11:22 AM Re: Open letter to Mr. Baxter regarding the ban of Bill Brem [Re: Jeff Clef]
UnrightTooner Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/13/08
Posts: 4944
Loc: Bradford County, PA
Hey Folks!

I just realized what this all reminds me of: a major league baseball game. The umpire makes a critical call that puts the home team behind. So the manager gets in the ump’s face and kicks dirt on his shoes to get thrown out of the game. Then the fans get to cheering for the home team and the players naturally play a little harder. But come the seventh inning stretch all the fans get up and sing “Take Me Out to the Ball Game” together. smile
_________________________
Jeff Deutschle
Part-Time Tuner
Who taught the first chicken how to peck?

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#1457019 - 06/15/10 11:28 AM Re: Open letter to Mr. Baxter regarding the ban of Bill Brem [Re: Emmery]
RonTuner Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/21/04
Posts: 1664
Loc: Chicagoland
Originally Posted By: Emmery
I look at the temperament the same way. If I get asked to tune EBVT or any historical temperament enough, I'll learn to tune it and carry it as an additional tool. Its just that I have never been asked.


This is my favorite complaint about alternate temperaments! So much, that I often begin my classes with the question, "Sitting in this room are technicians representing decades of tuning experience. How many of you, during the initial contact with a client have been asked to tune ET?"

The response is perhaps, one or two hands in the group - of them, maybe once or twice their whole career.

Ron Koval
chicagoland
_________________________
Piano/instrument technician
www.ronkoval.com
@ronkoval

my piano videos:
http://www.youtube.com/profile_videos?user=drwoodwind


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#1457021 - 06/15/10 11:29 AM Re: Open letter to Mr. Baxter regarding the ban of Bill Brem [Re: Jeff Clef]
Jerry Groot RPT Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/07/07
Posts: 6828
Loc: Grand Rapids Michigan
Quote:
There's road rage, and then there's the smoldering wreck being hauled away on the flatbed; the drivers hauled away to the morgue. Or, there's the time-out that gives the hot tempers a chance to cool down... and everyone walks away from it.


I agree. However, what is rarely taken into consideration or talked about, is "what or who, caused the road rage in the first place." All parties involved need a time out. Not just the one that flew off the handle.
_________________________
Jerry Groot RPT
Piano Technicians Guild
Grand Rapids, Michigan
www.grootpiano.com

We love to play BF2.

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#1457028 - 06/15/10 11:42 AM Re: Open letter to Mr. Baxter regarding the ban of Bill Brem [Re: Emmery]
keyboardklutz Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/21/07
Posts: 10856
Loc: London, UK (though if it's Aug...
Originally Posted By: Emmery

Originally Posted By: keyboardklutz
Originally Posted By: BDB
We also learn the undesirability of having one's ball taken away by those who do not play fair.
More like a kick in the balls if you ask me! (also unfair)


keyboardklutz: is there any particular age group of children or particular social class of people you feel a comment like this is suitable for?
I teach plenty of children. They themselves are quite open about their anatomy and how it responds to accidents. Why can't you be?
_________________________
snobbyish, yet maybe helpful.
http://keyboardclass.blogspot.com/


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#1457082 - 06/15/10 12:41 PM Re: Open letter to Mr. Baxter regarding the ban of Bill Brem [Re: keyboardklutz]
Silverwood Pianos Online   content
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/10/08
Posts: 4204
Loc: Vancouver B. C. Canada

While it is mildly amusing to read members pointing out continually to each other what the other member is doing here respectively, is there any chance we all collectively might get back to talking about pianos???

Oh yeah, pianos..... those pesky things......Just an abstract thought for today....
_________________________
Dan Silverwood
www.silverwoodpianos.com
http://silverwoodpianos.blogspot.com/
http://www.facebook.com/SilverwoodPianosDotCom
"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur."

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#1457086 - 06/15/10 12:46 PM Re: Open letter to Mr. Baxter regarding the ban of Bill Brem [Re: Silverwood Pianos]
UnrightTooner Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/13/08
Posts: 4944
Loc: Bradford County, PA
Sure, Dan. You first!

So Jerry, then two wrongs make a right? Or do you mean it is OK to overeact in order to get someone else into trouble too?
_________________________
Jeff Deutschle
Part-Time Tuner
Who taught the first chicken how to peck?

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#1457090 - 06/15/10 12:51 PM Re: Open letter to Mr. Baxter regarding the ban of Bill Brem [Re: UnrightTooner]
Inlanding Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/05/09
Posts: 1652
Loc: Colorado
...Still tuning quasi-ET and quasi-EBVTiii. It's the best I can do at this point. My customers are still happy smile

Glen
_________________________


A Bit of YouTube

PTG Associate Member

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#1457104 - 06/15/10 01:16 PM Re: Open letter to Mr. Baxter regarding the ban of Bill Brem [Re: Inlanding]
Jerry Groot RPT Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/07/07
Posts: 6828
Loc: Grand Rapids Michigan
Not at all Jeff. I am merely pointing out that there has been consistently the same people in here pushing buttons. Bill pushes back as some of us have also done to one another at some point in time. I am saying that the button pushing needs to stop.
_________________________
Jerry Groot RPT
Piano Technicians Guild
Grand Rapids, Michigan
www.grootpiano.com

We love to play BF2.

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