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Topic Options
#1457129 - 06/15/10 01:51 PM Re: Open letter to Mr. Baxter regarding the ban of Bill Brem [Re: Jerry Groot RPT]
UnrightTooner Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/13/08
Posts: 4954
Loc: Bradford County, PA
Fair enough, Jerry. I'll start:

"Take me out to the ball game..."

(Who's next?)
_________________________
Jeff Deutschle
Part-Time Tuner
Who taught the first chicken how to peck?

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#1457139 - 06/15/10 02:03 PM Re: Open letter to Mr. Baxter regarding the ban of Bill Brem [Re: UnrightTooner]
Jerry Groot RPT Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/07/07
Posts: 6828
Loc: Grand Rapids Michigan
Sounds good but I get to be the bat!
_________________________
Jerry Groot RPT
Piano Technicians Guild
Grand Rapids, Michigan
www.grootpiano.com

We love to play BF2.

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#1457143 - 06/15/10 02:06 PM Re: Open letter to Mr. Baxter regarding the ban of Bill Brem [Re: Jerry Groot RPT]
UnrightTooner Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/13/08
Posts: 4954
Loc: Bradford County, PA
Uh, Jerry, you can't be the bat until the 7th inning stretch is over. Now you gonna sing or ain't ya?
_________________________
Jeff Deutschle
Part-Time Tuner
Who taught the first chicken how to peck?

Top
#1457150 - 06/15/10 02:13 PM Re: Open letter to Mr. Baxter regarding the ban of Bill Brem [Re: UnrightTooner]
Jerry Groot RPT Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/07/07
Posts: 6828
Loc: Grand Rapids Michigan
I Write The Songs.....

I have a better idea. I just found this site. Hope you all enjoy it.

http://www.trachtman.org/ragtime/


Edited by Jerry Groot RPT (06/15/10 02:17 PM)
_________________________
Jerry Groot RPT
Piano Technicians Guild
Grand Rapids, Michigan
www.grootpiano.com

We love to play BF2.

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#1457173 - 06/15/10 02:54 PM Re: Open letter to Mr. Baxter regarding the ban of Bill Brem [Re: Emmery]
Grandpianoman Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/12/05
Posts: 2403
Loc: Portland, Oregon
Quote:
from Emmery : "Grandpianoman, I keep my tool box light and only carry the tools I need for day to day work. It took many years to get it this way and I did so by keeping track of what tasks come up and what customers require of me. I look at the temperament the same way. If I get asked to tune EBVT or any historical temperament enough, I'll learn to tune it and carry it as an additional tool. Its just that I have never been asked."


That's great, perhaps that will happen in the near future.

Quote:
from Emmery: My comment to continue with the thread was not a blessing, but thank you for the sarcastic compliment.


Your post here should really be in the other thread, but since you posted it in this thread, I will respond in kind. Your original comment to me:

Quote:
Oh well, continue on with your thread and have fun.


Call it what you will. I see it as you giving me your 'blessing', your 'ok' so to speak, to continue. Your reference to me to "have fun" is not exactly devoid of sarcasm.

I have a request Emmery. You obviously do not share my enthusiasm or others for that matter, for EBVT III or my "My piano in EBVT III" thread. Why don't we just leave well enough alone and stop this back and forth jousting. It serves no purpose that I can see. I think we have both clearly expressed our opinions on the subject, and the readers here on PW understand both sides.

Quote:
from Emmery: BTW, unlike someone else you constantly refer to as creating "magical" tunings, I'm simply a mere mortal that hasn't dwelved much in that stuff. I'm not sure if I could conjure or baffle with the same enchanting effect. I guess I could do a tuning, bill it on my invoice as "magical", and leave some charred dice and chicken feathers on the piano when I leave...



Your comment above is a perfect example of what I am talking about. What purpose does that kind of dig serve here? Absolutely nothing, would be my answer.



Edited by Grandpianoman (06/15/10 03:07 PM)

Top
#1457179 - 06/15/10 03:12 PM Re: Open letter to Mr. Baxter regarding the ban of Bill Brem [Re: Grandpianoman]
Chopinist Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/02/10
Posts: 162
Originally Posted By: Jerry Groot RPT
I Write The Songs.....

War! What is it good for?

Originally Posted By: Grandpianoman
Absolutely nothing ....

Say it again.

smile
_________________________
"Whereof one cannot speak, thereof one must remain silent." —Wittgenstein

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#1457182 - 06/15/10 03:17 PM Re: Open letter to Mr. Baxter regarding the ban of Bill Brem [Re: Chopinist]
Jerry Groot RPT Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/07/07
Posts: 6828
Loc: Grand Rapids Michigan
Oh I don't know, I just found that one was the first song posted that I looked up so that is what I posted here. No harm intended in doing so..
_________________________
Jerry Groot RPT
Piano Technicians Guild
Grand Rapids, Michigan
www.grootpiano.com

We love to play BF2.

Top
#1457196 - 06/15/10 03:48 PM Re: Open letter to Mr. Baxter regarding the ban of Bill Brem [Re: RonTuner]
kpembrook Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/06/10
Posts: 1316
Loc: Michigan
Originally Posted By: RonTuner
Originally Posted By: Emmery
I look at the temperament the same way. If I get asked to tune EBVT or any historical temperament enough, I'll learn to tune it and carry it as an additional tool. Its just that I have never been asked.


This is my favorite complaint about alternate temperaments! So much, that I often begin my classes with the question, "Sitting in this room are technicians representing decades of tuning experience. How many of you, during the initial contact with a client have been asked to tune ET?"

The response is perhaps, one or two hands in the group - of them, maybe once or twice their whole career.

Ron Koval
chicagoland


I'm in the same situation. My customers don't ask about temperaments. I've tuned a few others for fun (but not the EBVT yet).
Nonetheless, I think the argument is irrelevant. Customers often don't know to ask for "voicing" or "regulating". Only after I do some voicing do I get comments about how the piano sounds really better than after any previous tuner's visit.

It's partly a matter of education. If temperaments are something for people to ask for, it will happen only after we technicians educate our customers. Or, if we don't educate our customers and just "do" some other temperament, the proof of the pudding is in whether we increase or lose customer base and what kind of "buzz" our customers create about us to their contacts.
_________________________
Keith Akins, RPT
USA Distributor for Isaac Cadenza hammers and Profundo Bass Strings
Supporting Piano Owners D-I-Y piano tuning and repair

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#1457251 - 06/15/10 05:45 PM Re: Open letter to Mr. Baxter regarding the ban of Bill Brem [Re: Ralph]
theJourney Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/22/07
Posts: 3946
Loc: Banned
Originally Posted By: Ralph
Originally Posted By: rocket88
Originally Posted By: theJourney

Even functioning democracies do not have unlimited free speech! Let alone those countries that claim they are the light to the world but haven't been representative democracies for decades.

In Europe, for example, hate speech is illegal, and can result in prosecution.

In America, one has to obey unwritten political correctness norms and watch one's every word as if under Stalinism, even when ambushed by a teenager, less one be destroyed by a malicious, vigilante posse as we have seen in the case of the Zionist Rabbi who orchestrated the pogrom against veteran White House reporter Helen Thomas.


This thread has deteriorated to a new low when bashing America is introduced into it.

We do need a "septic tank" after all.



But in America he can bash it or love it all he wants. No one has the right to ban him for doing either. To compare US constitutional rights to Stalism is to reveal how little one knows about Stalin.


The comparison of Stalinism was not to constitutional rights, but rather to the increasing phenomenon of "playing the man not the ball" and "rule of the mob" becoming more prominent than "rule of law".

When anyone can ambush someone, even an elderly and decrepit 90 year old woman, tease them and pull on them to capture a surreptitious comment to be filmed and broadcast without permission and abused for making political hay, using and discarding the person as a worthless object, demonizing them and ruining their public reputation, then suddenly everyone must be very, very careful about who they talk to and what they are saying, worrying it it is politically correct, similar to the care required under Stalinism when one might offend Stalin and suddenly find oneself without a position and effectively banned or even murdered, as the career and reputation of Helen Thomas was ruined to distract attention from the 9 dead on a ship halfway around the world while disrespectfully ignoring her 50 years of service.

In my opinion, it is better to organize countries and forums around the rule of law rather than mobs. There should be clear and unambiguous guidelines for what is permissible and what is not. There should be a transparent process for enforcing the standards and the terms of service.

If instead enforcement is simply done along the lines of the whim or bias of the moderator or the owner, or based on mob rule of how many complaints a thread or post gets from those who (politically/personally/otherwise) oppose them, then we are heading again away from the rule of law. Away from civilization.

When posters are unable to follow the TOS or act civilly, they are not banned, but by not following the rules of civil conduct they ban themselves.

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#1457271 - 06/15/10 06:28 PM Re: Open letter to Mr. Baxter regarding the ban of Bill Brem [Re: theJourney]
alfredo capurso Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/10/07
Posts: 1085
Loc: Sicily - Italy
..."Away from civilization.

When posters are unable to follow the TOS or act civilly, they are not banned, but by not following the rules of civil conduct they ban themselves."...

Yes, they would, if they got no reply. Refrain?

a.c.
_________________________
alfredo

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#1457335 - 06/15/10 09:43 PM Re: Open letter to Mr. Baxter regarding the ban of Bill Brem [Re: UnrightTooner]
stores Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/28/09
Posts: 6648
Loc: Here, as opposed to there
Originally Posted By: UnrightTooner
I got into this Topic late because I usually stay away from the internet on weekends. So let me add this after having time to think about the situation.

Bill manipulated the Forum Administration into giving him a time out. Those that are saying that the time out is unfair are being enablers for others that also wish to act like adolescents.


Umm, no, they could have banned him.
_________________________

"And if we look at the works of J.S. Bach — a benevolent god to which all musicians should offer a prayer to defend themselves against mediocrity... -Debussy

"It's ok if you disagree with me. I can't force you to be right."

♪ ≠ $


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#1457399 - 06/16/10 12:48 AM Re: Open letter to Mr. Baxter regarding the ban of Bill Brem [Re: theJourney]
Horowitzian Offline
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/18/08
Posts: 8453
Originally Posted By: theJourney
[...]
In my opinion, it is better to organize countries and forums around the rule of law rather than mobs. There should be clear and unambiguous guidelines for what is permissible and what is not. There should be a transparent process for enforcing the standards and the terms of service.
[...]


A truer word was n'ver said. thumb
_________________________
Close only counts in horseshoes, hand grenades, and nuclear weapons.

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#1457404 - 06/16/10 01:10 AM Re: Open letter to Mr. Baxter regarding the ban of Bill Brem [Re: theJourney]
keyboardklutz Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/21/07
Posts: 10856
Loc: London, UK (though if it's Aug...
Originally Posted By: theJourney
here should be a transparent process for enforcing the standards and the terms of service.

If instead enforcement is simply done along the lines of the whim or bias of the moderator or the owner, or based on mob rule of how many complaints a thread or post gets from those who (politically/personally/otherwise) oppose them, then we are heading again away from the rule of law. Away from civilization.
PW does remind me of some Wild West town. Or Salem maybe?
_________________________
snobbyish, yet maybe helpful.
http://keyboardclass.blogspot.com/


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#1457418 - 06/16/10 02:11 AM Re: Open letter to Mr. Baxter regarding the ban of Bill Bremmer [Re: Ken Knapp]
DoelKees Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/01/10
Posts: 1761
Loc: Vancouver, Canada
Originally Posted By: Ken Knapp
Originally Posted By: pppat
Originally Posted By: Horowitzian
Originally Posted By: pppat


H,

Kees did not post any other PM in public than the one he himself wrote in the start. Then Ken Knapp opened the door on that. Or did I miss something?


There's a good reason why they are called PRIVATE messages. I wouldn't consider posting even one I wrote myself.


Nah, c'mon. As long as Kees posts his own writing without any including of possible replies, I can't see how that would breach any netiquette I've ever heard of. YOU on the other hand might find it inappropriate, but please don't refer to a general policy, because you'll find no backup for your thinking there.


Actually, he quoted MY PM to HIM. THen he quoted HIS reply and then my replies to him.

Not against the rules, but as Horowitzian said, it is a breach of netiquette.


Ken, it has been my policy for over 25 years that if I receive an improper email (or other personal correspondence) in relation to some issue on an associated newsgroup, that email and the author gets publicly exposed by me.

Improper emails are things such as name calling and threats. Yours fell in the last category.

If you want more information you can google me on the subject, I think there are some old threads on the "holy sanctity of the privateness of email" online from decades ago.

Really I'm not trying to upset you Ken, I wish you would try to learn from you experience instead of being so defensive all the time.


Kees

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#1457419 - 06/16/10 02:16 AM Re: Open letter to Mr. Baxter regarding the ban of Bill Bremmer [Re: DoelKees]
Horowitzian Offline
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/18/08
Posts: 8453
Originally Posted By: DoelKees
[...]

Improper emails are things such as name calling and threats. Yours fell in the last category.

[...]

Really I'm not trying to upset you Ken, I wish you would try to learn from you experience instead of being so defensive all the time.


Kees


Point one:


Originally Posted By: DoelKees
Originally Posted By: Ken Knapp
Nothing to resolve. Bill was given one month off the forum. The forum will give him his access back when the time out expires.
It's automatic.

Ken

Stupidity has no bounds.

Kees


Perhaps you could explain what else it means? You could be saying Bill is stupid...or you might be saying Ken is stupid. Which is it?

Point two:

Who's being defensive here? Methinks this post quite well explains what you meant in the above post about stupidity knowing no bounds:

Originally Posted By: DoelKees
In response to my latest post I had the following PM encounter with the moderator:

-------------BEGIN PM:------------------------------------------
Subject: Stupidity has no bounds?

I beg your pardon?

Ken

--

Look it up if you can't figure out what it means.

Kees
--
I know what it means. Are you looking to keep Bill company or what?

Ken

-------------END PM:------------------------------------------

Ken: If it makes you feel like a big important guy go ahead and ban me too.

Your banning decision was stupid. Your response to the complaints over it are even more stupid. To threaten me in a PM is even stupider. Having someone with that attitude as moderator is also stupid, but hardly your fault.

There you go, now you can ban me too.

Bye everyone, it was nice while it lasted!

Kees


Yeah, classy. cool
_________________________
Close only counts in horseshoes, hand grenades, and nuclear weapons.

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#1457420 - 06/16/10 02:27 AM Re: Open letter to Mr. Baxter regarding the ban of Bill Bremmer [Re: Horowitzian]
DoelKees Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/01/10
Posts: 1761
Loc: Vancouver, Canada
Horowitz, I already answered the question you ask me. Please read.

You are derailing the thread, the thread is not about me.

Kees

Top
#1457427 - 06/16/10 04:08 AM Re: Open letter to Mr. Baxter regarding the ban of Bill Bremmer [Re: DoelKees]
Horowitzian Offline
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/18/08
Posts: 8453
Originally Posted By: DoelKees
Horowitz, I already answered the question you ask me. Please read.

You are derailing the thread, the thread is not about me.

Kees


Unintentional irony. Gotta love it. smile

_________________________
Close only counts in horseshoes, hand grenades, and nuclear weapons.

Top
#1457428 - 06/16/10 04:15 AM Re: Open letter to Mr. Baxter regarding the ban of Bill Bremmer [Re: Horowitzian]
keyboardklutz Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/21/07
Posts: 10856
Loc: London, UK (though if it's Aug...
Oh I see, only an ironic derail. Does that count?
_________________________
snobbyish, yet maybe helpful.
http://keyboardclass.blogspot.com/


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#1457430 - 06/16/10 04:18 AM Re: Open letter to Mr. Baxter regarding the ban of Bill Bremmer [Re: DoelKees]
stores Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/28/09
Posts: 6648
Loc: Here, as opposed to there
Originally Posted By: DoelKees
Horowitz, I already answered the question you ask me. Please read.

You are derailing the thread, the thread is not about me.

Kees


No, he's not derailing the thread at all. He's simply commenting on material that already exists in the thread (put there by you no less). You're right that the thread isn't about you, but if that's your criteria for pinning an accusation of derailment on Horo, then YOU were guilty of the exact same offense back on the very first page of the thread when you posted YOUR private message/replies.
_________________________

"And if we look at the works of J.S. Bach — a benevolent god to which all musicians should offer a prayer to defend themselves against mediocrity... -Debussy

"It's ok if you disagree with me. I can't force you to be right."

♪ ≠ $


Top
#1457441 - 06/16/10 05:33 AM Re: Open letter to Mr. Baxter regarding the ban of Bill Bremmer [Re: stores]
DoelKees Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/01/10
Posts: 1761
Loc: Vancouver, Canada
Originally Posted By: stores
Originally Posted By: DoelKees
Horowitz, I already answered the question you ask me. Please read.

You are derailing the thread, the thread is not about me.

Kees


No, he's not derailing the thread at all. He's simply commenting on material that already exists in the thread (put there by you no less). You're right that the thread isn't about you, but if that's your criteria for pinning an accusation of derailment on Horo, then YOU were guilty of the exact same offense back on the very first page of the thread when you posted YOUR private message/replies.


That's too complicated for me to understand. Should I get a lawyer? If you cross the street while the pedestrian light is red to save a child from a falling piano do you still get a ticket if it was tuned in EBVT?

Come on guys, everything relevant has by now been said here.

Kees

Top
#1457506 - 06/16/10 10:13 AM Re: Open letter to Mr. Baxter regarding the ban of Bill Bremmer [Re: Cinnamonbear]
piano_tech chris Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/10/10
Posts: 72
Loc: South Central PA
I don't know all the facts, and won't pretend too. What I am reading is that it was Bill's sarcasm and attitude towards another member which temporarily suspended him from the forums, which he apparently agreed to. Maybe he realizes a mistake was made.

Let it be known that I do not spend a great deal of time on the forums. I find many threads where sarcasm and bantar are present, and that is to be expected within a public forum such as these. Much of this sarcasm comes to the point of insult.

With that said, we obviously don't see members being suspended or banned on a daily basis. Whatever the details of this suspension are, let us put it behind us, respect the decision of Mr. Baxter and the forum Moderators, and move on.

Opinions are passionate ideas coming from the mind and heart. When an opposing idea/opinion is presented, its likely to conjur up some degree of anger. To be professional is to hold the anger back and respect the opinions of others.

Its easy to "type away" via email or a forum such as these without regret. . .especially knowing you may never come in contact with the opposition, EVER. What takes professionalism is to give the due respect even if it is not given to you. Walk away if you get angry. . .tomorrow is a new day!

Cheers!
_________________________
Christopher P. Smith
Piano Technician/Tuner
www.smithspianocraft.com
http://www.facebook.com/pages/Smiths-Piano-Service/346926470248

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#1457558 - 06/16/10 11:45 AM Re: Open letter to Mr. Baxter regarding the ban of Bill Brem [Re: Cinnamonbear]
Piano Girl RMG Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/24/07
Posts: 708
Loc: Germany
Quote:
Maybe it's bordering on sacrilege in this forum, but I'll say it anyway: it's only pianos, folks. It's not a war (though that's not always evident), it's not a hurricane, an oil slick, or any other life or death situation. It's pianos. Ranting, belittling, and otherwise blatantly crossing lines when it comes to common decency are unnecessary within the discussions here.


Well-said, Mr. Stahl.

Onward, ladies and gentlemen of the PTT forum. I don't often post here, but I do follow along. Onward.
_________________________
Robin Meloy Goldsby
www.goldsby.de
Author of PIANO GIRL: A Memoir
RHYTHM: A Novel
RMG is a Steinway Artist

Top
#1457593 - 06/16/10 12:35 PM Re: Open letter to Mr. Baxter regarding the ban of Bill Brem [Re: Piano Girl RMG]
pianoloverus Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/29/01
Posts: 19589
Loc: New York City
I was permanently banned with no warning from another forum for saying (in one of my first four posts there)that I thought Idil Biret was a terrific pianist. laugh crazy confused


Edited by pianoloverus (06/16/10 01:59 PM)

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#1457759 - 06/16/10 05:30 PM Re: Open letter to Mr. Baxter regarding the ban of Bill Brem [Re: theJourney]
David-G Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/17/06
Posts: 1244
Loc: London
Originally Posted By: theJourney
... as the career and reputation of Helen Thomas was ruined to distract attention from the 9 dead on a ship halfway around the world while disrespectfully ignoring her 50 years of service.

I find your comment distressing. Ms Thomas's reputation was ruined by her own viciously anti-semitic remark.

Top
#1457792 - 06/16/10 06:26 PM Re: Open letter to Mr. Baxter regarding the ban of Bill Brem [Re: David-G]
Ralph Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/09/01
Posts: 1305
Loc: Delaware (slower/lower)
If Helen Thomas posted on PW the same way she askes questions she wouldn't get past post #2 before being banned.
_________________________
Do or do not. There is no try.

Top
#1457798 - 06/16/10 06:34 PM Re: Open letter to Mr. Baxter regarding the ban of Bill Brem [Re: Ralph]
wayne walker Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/29/08
Posts: 515
Loc: Windsor,Nova Scotia Canada
I think it is time to give this thread a rest, let get back to talking about pianos instead of fighting, etc...
_________________________
Wayne Walker
Walker's Piano Service
http://www.walkerpiano.ca/

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#1457887 - 06/16/10 08:06 PM Re: Open letter to Mr. Baxter regarding the ban of Bill Brem [Re: wayne walker]
Jerry Groot RPT Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/07/07
Posts: 6828
Loc: Grand Rapids Michigan
Agreed.
_________________________
Jerry Groot RPT
Piano Technicians Guild
Grand Rapids, Michigan
www.grootpiano.com

We love to play BF2.

Top
#1457898 - 06/16/10 08:21 PM Re: Open letter to Mr. Baxter regarding the ban of Bill Bremmer [Re: DoelKees]
stores Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/28/09
Posts: 6648
Loc: Here, as opposed to there
Originally Posted By: DoelKees
Originally Posted By: stores
Originally Posted By: DoelKees
Horowitz, I already answered the question you ask me. Please read.

You are derailing the thread, the thread is not about me.

Kees


No, he's not derailing the thread at all. He's simply commenting on material that already exists in the thread (put there by you no less). You're right that the thread isn't about you, but if that's your criteria for pinning an accusation of derailment on Horo, then YOU were guilty of the exact same offense back on the very first page of the thread when you posted YOUR private message/replies.


That's too complicated for me to understand. Should I get a lawyer? If you cross the street while the pedestrian light is red to save a child from a falling piano do you still get a ticket if it was tuned in EBVT?

Come on guys, everything relevant has by now been said here.

Kees


LOL. Didn't mean to confuse you. I thought it a fairly simple response myself. =)
_________________________

"And if we look at the works of J.S. Bach — a benevolent god to which all musicians should offer a prayer to defend themselves against mediocrity... -Debussy

"It's ok if you disagree with me. I can't force you to be right."

♪ ≠ $


Top
#1458000 - 06/17/10 01:09 AM Re: Open letter to Mr. Baxter regarding the ban of Bill Bremmer [Re: David-G]
keyboardklutz Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/21/07
Posts: 10856
Loc: London, UK (though if it's Aug...
Originally Posted By: David-G
Originally Posted By: theJourney
... as the career and reputation of Helen Thomas was ruined to distract attention from the 9 dead on a ship halfway around the world while disrespectfully ignoring her 50 years of service.

I find your comment distressing. Ms Thomas's reputation was ruined by her own viciously anti-semitic remark.
Distress no more! Anti-zionism is not anti-semitism. In fact plenty of orthodox Israelis are the former.
_________________________
snobbyish, yet maybe helpful.
http://keyboardclass.blogspot.com/


Top
#1458082 - 06/17/10 07:44 AM Re: Open letter to Mr. Baxter regarding the ban of Bill Bremmer [Re: keyboardklutz]
theJourney Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/22/07
Posts: 3946
Loc: Banned
Originally Posted By: keyboardklutz
Originally Posted By: David-G
Originally Posted By: theJourney
... as the career and reputation of Helen Thomas was ruined to distract attention from the 9 dead on a ship halfway around the world while disrespectfully ignoring her 50 years of service.

I find your comment distressing. Ms Thomas's reputation was ruined by her own viciously anti-semitic remark.
Distress no more! Anti-zionism is not anti-semitism. In fact plenty of orthodox Israelis are the former.


Indeed. Rabbi Nesenhoff, the self-proclaimed Zionist who used his teenage son to ambush an elderly lady, has claimed that he views Israel and Judaism as the same thing and that those who do not provide unconditional support for every action of Israel are thus anti-Semites. Since Helen Thomas, one of the few journalists America has known that has protected democracy by asking difficult questions, including how it is in the interest of the US to unconditionally support and bankroll Israel, Pakistan and other countries she was fair game to be preyed upon, ambushed and even have her employer called by Nesenhoff demanding her firing while he orchestrated an internet-soundbite-fueled mob lynching without giving the poor woman a chance to react. Civilization? Rule of law? I think not.

Hopefully, pianoworld will not sink to this level, but people who act like Nesenhoff will be suspended.

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