Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Piano Tuner-Technicians Forum Open letter to Mr. Baxter regarding the ban of Bill Bremmer

We spoke before, pppat ( here), about the difficulty people have in separating the personality from the issue on this forum. The EBVT threads rub people the wrong way because of the personality of the guy who invented it, and the way he presents it. This shouldn't, and doesn't, take anything away from the validity of his temperament or any other of his professional activities. This I'm sure many people can agree with. However, when his posting style and online personality consistently breaks forum rules, causing rifts and tensions within a professional community board, he should be banned in this way. The moderators have acted exactly as they should, and I support their decision.
For those using this thread to criticise or support the 'cause' of EBVT, it is irrelevant. The issue here IS personality.

Those were my very first thoughts. I have seen more provocation towards Bill's posts than perhaps any others. Yet, what I have not seen, are the people that do the provoking, being punished or banned. For the most part it seems that they are allowed to continue to provoke.

I figure this way. If you don't like the EBVT III then don't read about it. I skip out on a lot of what is said about it but that doesn't mean that I am not keeping an open mind to other possibilities in this field. I am..

As for the EBVT III, I've also learned that I don't have to use it verbatim. I can tweak it to my preference as I go along as we can do with any tuning.

It is nice that Bill was not banned completely. He does have a lot to contribute even if there are things that not everyone agrees with at all times.

Yes, Phil, I remember that discussion very well. And I agree with you on this being about personality. Still, I disagree on the decision of the moderators. I consider it unjust - when I read the many flaming disputes between Bill and others, to me either all deserve a ban, or then none of them. The line is clearly drawn, so to speak, but it's not horizontal. Or however one should put it.

BTW, I myself am a Vespaing tuner as of now

So people's personalities should be policed, then?

Respect is a two-way street, and maybe Mr. Bremmer gave as good as he got.

Thought this might help...



Hint: He's thinking about getting his piano tuned.

Now if this does not calm the nerves of everyone here, I don't know what will. I am certainly in a serene mood after that.

I would like to contact Mr. Carey, and suggest he try EBVT III.

Kees,

I really don't know you. You could be the greatest guy in the world. But you are getting on my last nerve.

Ken

Sorry you feel that way Ken. What have I done to upset you this time?

I'm not really sure how your comment contributes to this thread or what you want from me.

Kees

More like a kick in the balls if you ask me! (also unfair)

Don't worry, I'll get over it.

Ken

That is actually not a bad suggestion. Some forums have such septic tanks where threads are moved to that are not longer on topic for the forum or where certain posters who are incapable of civil discourse are restricted to.

Making people edit their own inappropriate posts or having them edited or deleted by the moderators is unfortunately a necessity in most successful forums. Giving repeat offenders time outs or suspensions is also common (necessary) practice.

Pat,

I've been at the receiving end of one of Bill's flaming attacks (which was later removed by way of editing, either by himself or by a moderator - I can't remember). All I did was voice some doubts and ask some pertinent questions about the sound of the remote keys, e.g. D flat maj (e.g. a melody such as the 2nd movement of Dvorak's 9th symphony). In NO way did I provoke Bill with rude comments or prejudice of any kind. Neither did I criticise his temperament.

And I have not been the only one unduly flamed by Bill.

It is therefore not fair to say that Bill only dished out as he received.

It would be more fair to say this: by all appearances, Bill has great difficulty in separating the matter at hand (in this case a temperament that he designed) from the person at hand (i.e. himself). [EDIT: Phil has already alluded to this.] If his temperament receives positive feedback, he is happy and literally basks in the sun. But if his temperament receives negative feedback, or simply a few questions, he often takes this as a personal affront and goes into a raging defensive-offensive behavior.

We've all heard the adage, "Play the ball, not the man." Well, it appears to me that Bill has great difficulty in doing this.

Yes, granted, Bill has also been at the receiving end at times, but from my own experience I can say that most of the personal attacks originate from Bill himself. (Although he would probably disagree, as he appears to see himself as a victim.)

Yes, granted, Bill did apologize to me later, but why is it necessary to explode into flames first, then back-pedal and apologize later? Methinks that this is exactly the kind of behavior that the moderators are trying to curb, and for that, I laud their decision.

I hope that Bill will return to the forum after his time-out expires, and that he will renew his efforts to play the ball, not the men (and women).

PW used to have such a forum, called the Coffee Room. Turned out to be a bad idea indeed. Frank eventually had to shut it down because it got out of hand. Browsing through the Coffee Room archives you will quickly see what happens when people are free to make ad hominem attacks.

I got into this Topic late because I usually stay away from the internet on weekends. So let me add this after having time to think about the situation.

Bill manipulated the Forum Administration into giving him a time out. Those that are saying that the time out is unfair are being enablers for others that also wish to act like adolescents.

Ad hominem attacks should never be allowed and repeated offence is a good reason for permanent suspension in my book.

This thread has deteriorated to a new low when bashing America is introduced into it.

We do need a "septic tank" after all.

But in America he can bash it or love it all he wants. No one has the right to ban him for doing either. To compare US constitutional rights to Stalism is to reveal how little one knows about Stalin.

That comes as a surprise to me, and I'd be interested in an explanation of this statement.

How did he do that exactly, and with what sort of leverage? Why would the forum administration accede to being manipulated when this is private property on which they call the shots?

Unless there's clear evidence of "manipulation," that assertion discredits both Mr. Bremmer and Piano World management.

Manipulation is the only thing that I can call what Bill did. He threw down the gauntlet, double dog dared the Administration and forced their hand knowing exactly what the outcome would be. Those that are criticizing the Administration’s actions are being Bill's dupes:

Thanks for the clarification, but I still think choosing to characterize that as "manipulation" sullies both parties here.