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Originally Posted by UnrightTooner
I got into this Topic late because I usually stay away from the internet on weekends. So let me add this after having time to think about the situation.

Bill manipulated the Forum Administration into giving him a time out. Those that are saying that the time out is unfair are being enablers for others that also wish to act like adolescents.


Umm, no, they could have banned him.



"And if we look at the works of J.S. Bach — a benevolent god to which all musicians should offer a prayer to defend themselves against mediocrity... -Debussy

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Originally Posted by theJourney
[...]
In my opinion, it is better to organize countries and forums around the rule of law rather than mobs. There should be clear and unambiguous guidelines for what is permissible and what is not. There should be a transparent process for enforcing the standards and the terms of service.
[...]


A truer word was n'ver said. thumb


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Originally Posted by theJourney
here should be a transparent process for enforcing the standards and the terms of service.

If instead enforcement is simply done along the lines of the whim or bias of the moderator or the owner, or based on mob rule of how many complaints a thread or post gets from those who (politically/personally/otherwise) oppose them, then we are heading again away from the rule of law. Away from civilization.
PW does remind me of some Wild West town. Or Salem maybe?

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Originally Posted by Ken Knapp
Originally Posted by pppat
Originally Posted by Horowitzian
Originally Posted by pppat


H,

Kees did not post any other PM in public than the one he himself wrote in the start. Then Ken Knapp opened the door on that. Or did I miss something?


There's a good reason why they are called PRIVATE messages. I wouldn't consider posting even one I wrote myself.


Nah, c'mon. As long as Kees posts his own writing without any including of possible replies, I can't see how that would breach any netiquette I've ever heard of. YOU on the other hand might find it inappropriate, but please don't refer to a general policy, because you'll find no backup for your thinking there.


Actually, he quoted MY PM to HIM. THen he quoted HIS reply and then my replies to him.

Not against the rules, but as Horowitzian said, it is a breach of netiquette.


Ken, it has been my policy for over 25 years that if I receive an improper email (or other personal correspondence) in relation to some issue on an associated newsgroup, that email and the author gets publicly exposed by me.

Improper emails are things such as name calling and threats. Yours fell in the last category.

If you want more information you can google me on the subject, I think there are some old threads on the "holy sanctity of the privateness of email" online from decades ago.

Really I'm not trying to upset you Ken, I wish you would try to learn from you experience instead of being so defensive all the time.


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Originally Posted by DoelKees
[...]

Improper emails are things such as name calling and threats. Yours fell in the last category.

[...]

Really I'm not trying to upset you Ken, I wish you would try to learn from you experience instead of being so defensive all the time.


Kees


Point one:


Originally Posted by DoelKees
Originally Posted by Ken Knapp
Nothing to resolve. Bill was given one month off the forum. The forum will give him his access back when the time out expires.
It's automatic.

Ken

Stupidity has no bounds.

Kees


Perhaps you could explain what else it means? You could be saying Bill is stupid...or you might be saying Ken is stupid. Which is it?

Point two:

Who's being defensive here? Methinks this post quite well explains what you meant in the above post about stupidity knowing no bounds:

Originally Posted by DoelKees
In response to my latest post I had the following PM encounter with the moderator:

-------------BEGIN PM:------------------------------------------
Subject: Stupidity has no bounds?

I beg your pardon?

Ken

--

Look it up if you can't figure out what it means.

Kees
--
I know what it means. Are you looking to keep Bill company or what?

Ken

-------------END PM:------------------------------------------

Ken: If it makes you feel like a big important guy go ahead and ban me too.

Your banning decision was stupid. Your response to the complaints over it are even more stupid. To threaten me in a PM is even stupider. Having someone with that attitude as moderator is also stupid, but hardly your fault.

There you go, now you can ban me too.

Bye everyone, it was nice while it lasted!

Kees


Yeah, classy. cool


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Horowitz, I already answered the question you ask me. Please read.

You are derailing the thread, the thread is not about me.

Kees

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Originally Posted by DoelKees
Horowitz, I already answered the question you ask me. Please read.

You are derailing the thread, the thread is not about me.

Kees


Unintentional irony. Gotta love it. smile



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Oh I see, only an ironic derail. Does that count?

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Originally Posted by DoelKees
Horowitz, I already answered the question you ask me. Please read.

You are derailing the thread, the thread is not about me.

Kees


No, he's not derailing the thread at all. He's simply commenting on material that already exists in the thread (put there by you no less). You're right that the thread isn't about you, but if that's your criteria for pinning an accusation of derailment on Horo, then YOU were guilty of the exact same offense back on the very first page of the thread when you posted YOUR private message/replies.



"And if we look at the works of J.S. Bach — a benevolent god to which all musicians should offer a prayer to defend themselves against mediocrity... -Debussy

"It's ok if you disagree with me. I can't force you to be right."

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Originally Posted by stores
Originally Posted by DoelKees
Horowitz, I already answered the question you ask me. Please read.

You are derailing the thread, the thread is not about me.

Kees


No, he's not derailing the thread at all. He's simply commenting on material that already exists in the thread (put there by you no less). You're right that the thread isn't about you, but if that's your criteria for pinning an accusation of derailment on Horo, then YOU were guilty of the exact same offense back on the very first page of the thread when you posted YOUR private message/replies.


That's too complicated for me to understand. Should I get a lawyer? If you cross the street while the pedestrian light is red to save a child from a falling piano do you still get a ticket if it was tuned in EBVT?

Come on guys, everything relevant has by now been said here.

Kees

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I don't know all the facts, and won't pretend too. What I am reading is that it was Bill's sarcasm and attitude towards another member which temporarily suspended him from the forums, which he apparently agreed to. Maybe he realizes a mistake was made.

Let it be known that I do not spend a great deal of time on the forums. I find many threads where sarcasm and bantar are present, and that is to be expected within a public forum such as these. Much of this sarcasm comes to the point of insult.

With that said, we obviously don't see members being suspended or banned on a daily basis. Whatever the details of this suspension are, let us put it behind us, respect the decision of Mr. Baxter and the forum Moderators, and move on.

Opinions are passionate ideas coming from the mind and heart. When an opposing idea/opinion is presented, its likely to conjur up some degree of anger. To be professional is to hold the anger back and respect the opinions of others.

Its easy to "type away" via email or a forum such as these without regret. . .especially knowing you may never come in contact with the opposition, EVER. What takes professionalism is to give the due respect even if it is not given to you. Walk away if you get angry. . .tomorrow is a new day!

Cheers!

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Quote
Maybe it's bordering on sacrilege in this forum, but I'll say it anyway: it's only pianos, folks. It's not a war (though that's not always evident), it's not a hurricane, an oil slick, or any other life or death situation. It's pianos. Ranting, belittling, and otherwise blatantly crossing lines when it comes to common decency are unnecessary within the discussions here.


Well-said, Mr. Stahl.

Onward, ladies and gentlemen of the PTT forum. I don't often post here, but I do follow along. Onward.


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I was permanently banned with no warning from another forum for saying (in one of my first four posts there)that I thought Idil Biret was a terrific pianist. laugh crazy confused

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Originally Posted by theJourney
... as the career and reputation of Helen Thomas was ruined to distract attention from the 9 dead on a ship halfway around the world while disrespectfully ignoring her 50 years of service.

I find your comment distressing. Ms Thomas's reputation was ruined by her own viciously anti-semitic remark.

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If Helen Thomas posted on PW the same way she askes questions she wouldn't get past post #2 before being banned.


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I think it is time to give this thread a rest, let get back to talking about pianos instead of fighting, etc...


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Agreed.


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Originally Posted by DoelKees
Originally Posted by stores
Originally Posted by DoelKees
Horowitz, I already answered the question you ask me. Please read.

You are derailing the thread, the thread is not about me.

Kees


No, he's not derailing the thread at all. He's simply commenting on material that already exists in the thread (put there by you no less). You're right that the thread isn't about you, but if that's your criteria for pinning an accusation of derailment on Horo, then YOU were guilty of the exact same offense back on the very first page of the thread when you posted YOUR private message/replies.


That's too complicated for me to understand. Should I get a lawyer? If you cross the street while the pedestrian light is red to save a child from a falling piano do you still get a ticket if it was tuned in EBVT?

Come on guys, everything relevant has by now been said here.

Kees


LOL. Didn't mean to confuse you. I thought it a fairly simple response myself. =)



"And if we look at the works of J.S. Bach — a benevolent god to which all musicians should offer a prayer to defend themselves against mediocrity... -Debussy

"It's ok if you disagree with me. I can't force you to be right."

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Originally Posted by David-G
Originally Posted by theJourney
... as the career and reputation of Helen Thomas was ruined to distract attention from the 9 dead on a ship halfway around the world while disrespectfully ignoring her 50 years of service.

I find your comment distressing. Ms Thomas's reputation was ruined by her own viciously anti-semitic remark.
Distress no more! Anti-zionism is not anti-semitism. In fact plenty of orthodox Israelis are the former.

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Originally Posted by keyboardklutz
Originally Posted by David-G
Originally Posted by theJourney
... as the career and reputation of Helen Thomas was ruined to distract attention from the 9 dead on a ship halfway around the world while disrespectfully ignoring her 50 years of service.

I find your comment distressing. Ms Thomas's reputation was ruined by her own viciously anti-semitic remark.
Distress no more! Anti-zionism is not anti-semitism. In fact plenty of orthodox Israelis are the former.


Indeed. Rabbi Nesenhoff, the self-proclaimed Zionist who used his teenage son to ambush an elderly lady, has claimed that he views Israel and Judaism as the same thing and that those who do not provide unconditional support for every action of Israel are thus anti-Semites. Since Helen Thomas, one of the few journalists America has known that has protected democracy by asking difficult questions, including how it is in the interest of the US to unconditionally support and bankroll Israel, Pakistan and other countries she was fair game to be preyed upon, ambushed and even have her employer called by Nesenhoff demanding her firing while he orchestrated an internet-soundbite-fueled mob lynching without giving the poor woman a chance to react. Civilization? Rule of law? I think not.

Hopefully, pianoworld will not sink to this level, but people who act like Nesenhoff will be suspended.

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