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I just visited a respected shop on 58th street in NYC and met the delightful owner (of Grand Obsession fame). I asked to see grands in the $15000 neighborhood. I played several reconditioned Steinways (all more than $20,000) and a couple of other brands that I didn’t take notes on. Then the owner directed me to a new Ritmuller priced at $10,000. I assume it was a GP159R (or equivalent). I was immediately taken by the mellow and lovely tone, much less harsh (to my ears) than the Steinways. I also liked the action. I am somewhat discomfited that I was so swayed by such a less expensive and less renowned piano. Has anyone else had a similar reaction with Ritmuller grands (until this visit I had never heard of the company)? Actually, does anyone own a Ritmuller grand and is willing to share their thoughts? Finally, where does Ritmuller stand in the Pearl River hierarchy? Some of the ads suggest that it is a step up from the Pearl River line.

It is one of the top Pearl River brands. There's a review of Chinese grands here:

http://www.pianobuyer.com/fall09/w1.html

I played a Palatino. It was decent. Certainly a good deal. I was also not impressed with rebuilt Steinways. Do they still count as Steinways?

They can, but not in that price range.

ddf

That's fair, I understand now.

I have often said it's not about "Chinese pianos" but about the designers behind the product.

Some of the Chinese have simply copied things, still doing it [as many have done in that part of the world..] but the smarter ones have hired an impressive team of designers that are able to pull things off.

Lothar Thomma,Frank Emerson, Rudolph Ibach, Colin Taylor, etc - these are all people advancing "Chinese pianos" at an amazing rate.

Open a New York Steak House in Bejing, hire some of the best New York chefs, buy your beef in Alberta Canada - guess what you getting?

Top steak.

Norbert

Thank you Gnuboi and Norbert.

FWIW, I've heard good things about Ritmuller, but have not played one. My Hailun has been great; hope your Ritmuller is as good or better.

Hop

I cannot completely agree with this. I had this big logo on my (admittedly Korean) Samick 185 grand (now an ex-grand as I and the Samick grand are not dating any longer) that said "Designed by Klaus Fenner." It was a sub-par piano despite that. I am sure Mr. Fenner is extremely knowledgeable but that didn't make this piano a good one. It lacked in quality of workmanship. The design of the scale might be good, but since the highest workmanship is not applied, we'll never know! Regardless of country of origin or designer, both good design and good workmanship must come together. One alone isn't enough.

Klaus Fenner once told me he only designed 2 pianos in Korea.
His name later showed on all kinds of other models, right down to the smallest uprights......

Designers today make exclusive contracts with companies with their name or reference only being permitted on or for those specific models.

Norbert

That must have been for Samick, though? Do you know what pianos he designed? Could the model 185 which I owned been one of those? Could it also be that he designed two lines of pianos rather than just two pianos? That would make more economic sense for a giant like Samick.

Anyway, I am sure the Chinese pianos of today are better than the Samicks from the early 1990s.

The development, design or re-design of any piano take a lot of time and effort. It's definitely not an over-nighter type job.

Just by the time an egineer spends in a country one can gets a pretty good idea "how much" or "how many pianos" he can possibly do in that time frame.

For example the brand new 7'4 Estonia grand soon to be introduced to the public, took literally years.

Sure it was *from scratch*, but all essential and major new designs in piano building will take time.

Including the required test runs and tweaking of details....

Norbert

I don't know about steak, but that theory sure doesn't work with bagels.
It's all about the water.

fingers

A menu you cant read!

Out of curiosity I have visited several U.S. franchise restaurants in China. Some—like the T.G.I.F. in Tianjin—are quite authentic, save for the ethnicity of the waiters. Others have definitely lost (or gained) something in the translation. All have menus written in Chinese with English subtitles.

ddf

Question to above posters:

Anybody here personally familiar with the new Ritmuellers?

Interested in your guys' feed back.

Norbert