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#1457111 - 06/15/10 01:34 PM Yamaha CP1 versus CP5
Wojtek Kowalewski Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 06/15/10
Posts: 4
Loc: Canada
I am looking for a stage style piano for my wife.

I've narrowed down the search to a Yamaha CP1 and CP5

My wife used to play the piano when she was younger, but gave it up. Now I think it would be nice for her to get back into playing.

My background in playing is limited. What I'm looking for is for my wife to have the sound and feel of a piano, without actually buying an acoustic model

Other than price, and the foot petals, I can't see why the price difference between the 2 models.

Can someone with experience and know how let me know what the difference is? and if going with a CP5 over a CP1 affect the sound and feel?

Thanks

Wojtek

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#1457168 - 06/15/10 02:44 PM Re: Yamaha CP1 versus CP5 [Re: Wojtek Kowalewski]
FogVilleLad Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/02/05
Posts: 4680
Loc: San Francisco
With acoustic pianos, the keys are weighted so that the touch is a little heavier in the bass register. With Yamaha's DP's, this difference in touch is called "graded hammer". Neither the CP1 nor the CP5 have a graded hammer action. (I think that this is because these DP's, which are intended to be used by musicians when they are performing on stage, offer so many electric pianos.) You might want to look at the CP50, instead. That one does have a graded hammer action. Please note that it does not have speakers.

Women sometimes prefer a "home" piano - pedals built into their cabinets. You might want to ask your wife which type she would prefer. Home-style DP's do look more like the acoustic pianos that your wife played when she was learning. This style will also include speakers.






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#1457211 - 06/15/10 04:14 PM Re: Yamaha CP1 versus CP5 [Re: FogVilleLad]
Wojtek Kowalewski Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 06/15/10
Posts: 4
Loc: Canada
Thank you so much

I was not aware the CP1 and CP5 lacked the hammer motion.

I will definitely rethink the plan. In some ways this is a surprise gift for my wife, So I'm trying to keep her out of the loop for now and surrounding myself with people of expertise.

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#1457214 - 06/15/10 04:23 PM Re: Yamaha CP1 versus CP5 [Re: Wojtek Kowalewski]
spanishbuddha Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/08/09
Posts: 2235
Loc: UK
Originally Posted By: Wojtek Kowalewski
In some ways this is a surprise gift for my wife, So I'm trying to keep her out of the loop for now and surrounding myself with people of expertise.

This is tricky. It would be better to find a way to still give her the gift as a surprise but let her choose the DP. That's not really a contradiction if you're inventive. Part of the pleasure of the gift can also then be the choosing. The reason is the touch and sound can be very subjective or personal. Also the looks.

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#1457216 - 06/15/10 04:28 PM Re: Yamaha CP1 versus CP5 [Re: Wojtek Kowalewski]
Dave Horne Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/07/04
Posts: 5260
Loc: Vught, The Netherlands
Graded hammer action just means that some of the keys are even lighter than others, but all the keys are still lighter than an acoustic grand. This is advertising hype. Some folks will buy Brand A because it has graded hammers while Brand B does not.

If the choice is between the CP1 and the CP5, the CP5 gives you much more bang for the buck. After I closely looked at the differences between the two, it took me no time to make a decision.
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#1457249 - 06/15/10 05:43 PM Re: Yamaha CP1 versus CP5 [Re: Wojtek Kowalewski]
dewster Online   content
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/07/09
Posts: 4271
Loc: Northern NJ
Originally Posted By: Wojtek Kowalewski
I was not aware the CP1 and CP5 lacked the hammer motion.

They have a hammer action, it just isn't graded (heavier on the low end, lighter on the high end).

Originally Posted By: Wojtek Kowalewski
In some ways this is a surprise gift for my wife, So I'm trying to keep her out of the loop for now and surrounding myself with people of expertise.

Dude, you're scaring me. smile
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#1457282 - 06/15/10 06:50 PM Re: Yamaha CP1 versus CP5 [Re: Wojtek Kowalewski]
ChrisA Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/28/08
Posts: 3841
Loc: Redondo Beach, California
Originally Posted By: Wojtek Kowalewski

I was not aware the CP1 and CP5 lacked the hammer motion.


Not true. The CP1/5 have weighted hammer key action. But all the weights are the same. Other Yamaha DP key actions have graded weights with larger weights in the bass section.

If you like the CP1/5 then take another look at the Roland RD700GX with the new SN upgrade. It's very comparable. The real difference is if you like the key action in the RD700. I think it is slightly better than Yamaha's but at this level it's just opinion as neither is "better". I'm curious how you were able to eliminate the RD700.

You really have to try each piano. When you do it's obvous the CP1/5 have hammer action keys.


Edited by ChrisA (06/15/10 06:58 PM)

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#1457309 - 06/15/10 08:08 PM Re: Yamaha CP1 versus CP5 [Re: ChrisA]
Kawai James Offline
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 8385
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
Wojtek, I do not wish to discourage you from purchasing either the CP1/CP5 (I'm sure they are terrific instruments, although I have yet to play either one myself), however unless your wife is a gigging musician who is particularly fond of playing electric piano sounds, I do not believe that these models - or indeed most other stage pianos for that matter - are ideally suited to her needs.

If you are searching for a digital piano with the touch and sound of an acoustic, I would recommend one of the following 'console' instrument ranges:

- Yamaha Clavinova (CLP-3xx series)
- Kawai CA or CN series
- Roland HP series
- Casio AP series

Kind regards,
James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

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#1457433 - 06/16/10 04:37 AM Re: Yamaha CP1 versus CP5 [Re: Wojtek Kowalewski]
FogVilleLad Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/02/05
Posts: 4680
Loc: San Francisco
Originally Posted By: Wojtek Kowalewski
Thank you so much

I was not aware the CP1 and CP5 lacked the hammer motion.

They do have weighted actions, but the weights are not "graded". Other makes also have graded hammer actions, but they use different names for them.

Originally Posted By: Wojtek Kowalewski
I will definitely rethink the plan. In some ways this is a surprise gift for my wife, So I'm trying to keep her out of the loop for now and surrounding myself with people of expertise.
On the acoustic forum, we'd probably suggest just buying her a trinket in the shape of a piano. Then, when she unwraps it, tell her it's just a symbol for the piano that you want to buy her - after she decides which one she wants. Then you two can enjoy auditioning pianos together.

Originally Posted By: Kawai James
I would recommend one of the following 'console' instrument ranges:

- Yamaha Clavinova (CLP-3xx series)
- Kawai CA or CN series
- Roland HP series
- Casio AP series

Wojtek, "Console" is another name for "home".

I think that Casio still gets their actions from Fatar. In the past, Fatar actions did not have a good reputation for either durability or quality control. If you can afford a Yamaha, Roland, or Kawai, IMO they're a better gift.




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#1457436 - 06/16/10 04:54 AM Re: Yamaha CP1 versus CP5 [Re: FogVilleLad]
Kawai James Offline
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 8385
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
Originally Posted By: FogVilleLad
On the acoustic forum, we'd probably suggest just buying her a trinket in the shape of a piano. Then, when she unwraps it, tell her it's just a symbol for the piano that you want to buy her - after she decides which one she wants. Then you two can enjoy auditioning pianos together.


Spoken like a true romantic - that's a lovely suggestion!

Originally Posted By: FogVilleLad
I think that Casio still gets their actions from Fatar.


Really? This is the first time I have heard such an assumption. However many visitors to this forum also believe that Korg utilise Fatar keyboard actions, despite their Japanese website stating that they are in fact built at a facility in Kyoto.

Cheers,
James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

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#1457451 - 06/16/10 06:50 AM Re: Yamaha CP1 versus CP5 [Re: Kawai James]
EssBrace Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/01/09
Posts: 2327
Loc: Suffolk, United Kingdom
James, I too have seen specific reference to the Korg actions being made in Japan on Korg's slightly higher range pianos...maybe they are Fatar actions delivered to Japan in component form and assembled there...but I somehow doubt that. What I do notice however on the SV I saw and another Korg piano were uneven gaps between the keys...really created a negative impression.

I remember my Korg SG-Pro-X stage piano had a decent action but it was a Yamaha AE (Action Effect)...weighted, non-graded but very pleasant as I recall.

Anyway, OP said he was looking for a "stage style piano" for his wife. The Yamaha CP series are good looking instruments, as is the Kawai MP. The Roland FP-7 is a decent looking bit of kit in my opinion too. As others have said the non-graded action might be the deal-breaker on the CP-1 or 5.

Cheers,

Steve
_________________________
Yamaha CP1

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#1457464 - 06/16/10 08:12 AM Re: Yamaha CP1 versus CP5 [Re: EssBrace]
Wojtek Kowalewski Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 06/15/10
Posts: 4
Loc: Canada
Thank you all for your help.

It will make the decision a lot more comfortable knowing experienced people are here helping me out.

I think it would be best for her to test the pianos out, without her knowing its for her. I think I will ask a friend of mine to pretend he's looking for a piano and have my wife help him decide which one to get. I've done many surprises for my wife in the past, but this one is the trickiest.

I will keep you all updated.

Wojtek

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#1457466 - 06/16/10 08:18 AM Re: Yamaha CP1 versus CP5 [Re: EssBrace]
Kawai James Offline
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 8385
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
Originally Posted By: EssBrace
OP said he was looking for a "stage style piano" for his wife.


My apologies, I somehow managed to completely overlook that point.

In that case I would recommend the following (in no particular order):

- Roland RD-700GX or RD-300
- Kawai MP5 or MP8
- Yamaha CP33, CP50, or CP300

Alternatively, if the OP does not believe the stage functionality (i.e. ability to serve as a MIDI master keyboard, layering sounds together with zones etc.) of the above instruments is truly necessary, I would suggest the following portable models:

- Yamaha P150
- Kawai ES6
- Roland FP7

Cheers,
James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

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#1457477 - 06/16/10 08:54 AM Re: Yamaha CP1 versus CP5 [Re: Wojtek Kowalewski]
Melodialworks Music Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/19/05
Posts: 1309
Loc: Canada
Originally Posted By: Wojtek Kowalewski


I think it would be best for her to test the pianos out, without her knowing its for her. I think I will ask a friend of mine to pretend he's looking for a piano and have my wife help him decide which one to get. I've done many surprises for my wife in the past, but this one is the trickiest.


That's so cool! Best of luck!

Lawrence
_________________________
Melodialworks Music
Yamaha C3X
Yamaha CP300 + Omnisphere
Yamaha NU1 + Production Grand

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#1457489 - 06/16/10 09:46 AM Re: Yamaha CP1 versus CP5 [Re: Melodialworks Music]
Kawai James Offline
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 8385
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
+1

Great idea!

James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

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#1457655 - 06/16/10 02:31 PM Re: Yamaha CP1 versus CP5 [Re: Wojtek Kowalewski]
FogVilleLad Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/02/05
Posts: 4680
Loc: San Francisco
Originally Posted By: Wojtek Kowalewski
I think it would be best for her to test the pianos out, without her knowing its for her. I think I will ask a friend of mine to pretend he's looking for a piano and have my wife help him decide which one to get. I've done many surprises for my wife in the past, but this one is the trickiest.
Lovely idea.

When your wife is auditioning DP's, it'd be a good idea to make sure that all settings are the factory default settings. People sometimes fiddle with these settings - touch settings, for example - but don't reset them to the default. You might want to ask, or have your friend ask, the reps how to reset everything to their defaults.

Also, it can be tricky to separate touch from tone. For example a loud acoustic piano can seem to have light touch. With DP's you can focus on touch by "playing" the keys with the power off.

Please pay attention to the DP's that your wife seems to want to audition. Console/home style DP's usually have a higher WAF (Wife Acceptance Factor).

We love piano search stories.




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#1457662 - 06/16/10 02:37 PM Re: Yamaha CP1 versus CP5 [Re: FogVilleLad]
27Jan Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 12/27/06
Posts: 4
As one who has shopped and purchased a digital piano recently, I can attest to the fact that a, the Yamaha CP1 and CP 5 do not have a graded hammer action and b, It is of very little consequence that they don't. Having played and owned a variety of small grand pianos I've noticed that some have actions that (although heavier at the low end) can seem easier to play in the lower registers. This tends to negate the positive functionality of a graded action. Additionally many acoustic grands even those in environmentally friendly places have actions that can be somewhat inconsistent regarding touch. A side from the fact that it does, I don't believe any pianist or piano player really notices that the higher you go up on the keyboard the lighter it gets and the lower you go the heavier it gets. After playing and comparing the Roland Rd 700 Gx and Yamaha Cp 5, I purchased the Yamaha. Both are very good for their intended purpose. However, the CP 5 offers the player a greater level of expressive capability and the action (a negative for some) is very consistent. Just as no two acoustic pianos have the same feel, no digital plays/feels like an acoustic piano. The CP 5 imho offers a much better compromise.

Mason Hamlin A
Yamaha CP 5

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#1457684 - 06/16/10 03:07 PM Re: Yamaha CP1 versus CP5 [Re: 27Jan]
Jeff Clef Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/05/08
Posts: 4393
Loc: San Jose, CA
"I think it would be best for her to test the pianos out, without her knowing its for her. I think I will ask a friend of mine to pretend he's looking for a piano and have my wife help him decide which one to get. I've done many surprises for my wife in the past, but this one is the trickiest."

You are a bold man, Wojtek. A great surprise for her--- but since a piano is so personal, maybe you should reveal the real purpose to her right at the end of the shopping trip. She might pick a piano she thinks is right for the friend, but not her.

You might try something like... when she makes a choice for the 'friend,' take from your pocket one of those stick-on gift bows and put it on the piano, and give her the greeting card (Happy Birthday, or whatever it is), with your congratulations and a personal message. And a hug and kiss.

Even then, she may want to think it over some more before she makes a final choice. You know, looking up specs on the websites, etc. But she'll be delighted, for sure.

Champagne at home, of course.
_________________________
Clef


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#1457697 - 06/16/10 03:27 PM Re: Yamaha CP1 versus CP5 [Re: FogVilleLad]
ChrisA Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/28/08
Posts: 3841
Loc: Redondo Beach, California
Originally Posted By: FogVilleLad
..
Console/home style DP's usually have a higher WAF (Wife Acceptance Factor).



That is true. One guy who posted here a while said the only feature his wife cared about was that the piano absolutely had to have a sliding key cover.

Some people like the home type pianos because they resemble a more traditional looking acoustic piano but others hate them because "resemble" means "fake" and they don't like the fake wood plastic laminate finish. But some are very well done and others look like cheap Ikea furniture. There is also a grey area between the home and stage piano. I think My Yamaha P155 (when bolted onto the LP140 stand) falls into this grey zone. I'd call my P155 a "portable home practice piano"

The best thing you could do is make the rounds of the local music stores, headphones in hand and try out some of these pianos.

Spend time listining to the pianos, your ear will continue to improve the more you listen. All of them sound god at first but after some weeks you will learn to hear the differences between Kawai and Roland and the others, In fact I'd say if you can't describe the difference in sound, you are not yet ready to buy.

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#1457781 - 06/16/10 06:03 PM Re: Yamaha CP1 versus CP5 [Re: 27Jan]
Melodialworks Music Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/19/05
Posts: 1309
Loc: Canada
Originally Posted By: 27Jan
As one who has shopped and purchased a digital piano recently, I can attest to the fact that a, the Yamaha CP1 and CP 5 do not have a graded hammer action and b, It is of very little consequence that they don't.


I absolutely disagree with this. If you are wanting to do AP work, the graded action does in fact make a significant difference.
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Yamaha C3X
Yamaha CP300 + Omnisphere
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#1457805 - 06/16/10 06:41 PM Re: Yamaha CP1 versus CP5 [Re: Melodialworks Music]
Dave Horne Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/07/04
Posts: 5260
Loc: Vught, The Netherlands
Originally Posted By: Melodialworks Music
Originally Posted By: 27Jan
As one who has shopped and purchased a digital piano recently, I can attest to the fact that a, the Yamaha CP1 and CP 5 do not have a graded hammer action and b, It is of very little consequence that they don't.


I absolutely disagree with this. If you are wanting to do AP work, the graded action does in fact make a significant difference.


If you want to really be serious about playing an acoustic piano action, then get an acoustic piano; graded hammers or not, all digital pianos have actions that are much lighter than any acoustic grand piano action.

A graded hammer action just means than some of the keys are even lighter than others.

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#1457821 - 06/16/10 06:57 PM Re: Yamaha CP1 versus CP5 [Re: Dave Horne]
snazzyplayer Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/26/09
Posts: 983
Loc: Earth
Originally Posted By: Dave Horne


all digital pianos have actions that are much lighter than any acoustic grand piano action.




There you go again, Dave, making sweeping statements.

"All" digital piano actions are not lighter than "any" acoustic grand actions.

I have played several digitals that had heavier actions than grand pianos.

Snazzy
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Semper Gumby: Always flexible \:^)

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#1457828 - 06/16/10 07:05 PM Re: Yamaha CP1 versus CP5 [Re: Dave Horne]
Melodialworks Music Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/19/05
Posts: 1309
Loc: Canada
Originally Posted By: Dave Horne

If you want to really be serious about playing an acoustic piano action, then get an acoustic piano; graded hammers or not, all digital pianos have actions that are much lighter than any acoustic grand piano action.


You might say "many" but it's not valid to say "all".

I recently played a grand where the action was MUCH lighter than my RD-700GX, for example. I'll note the builder of the piano next time I'm at the store.
_________________________
Melodialworks Music
Yamaha C3X
Yamaha CP300 + Omnisphere
Yamaha NU1 + Production Grand

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#1457829 - 06/16/10 07:06 PM Re: Yamaha CP1 versus CP5 [Re: snazzyplayer]
Dave Horne Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/07/04
Posts: 5260
Loc: Vught, The Netherlands
Originally Posted By: snazzyplayer
Originally Posted By: Dave Horne


all digital pianos have actions that are much lighter than any acoustic grand piano action.




There you go again, Dave, making sweeping statements.

"All" digital piano actions are not lighter than "any" acoustic grand actions.

I have played several digitals that had heavier actions than grand pianos.

Snazzy


I have never played a digital piano that made me sweat. I have played many acoustic grands that made me work for my money.

You tell me which digital pianos were heavy and perhaps someone here with more time on their hands can apply weights to the keys to see just what is needed to depress that heavy digital key.
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#1457839 - 06/16/10 07:22 PM Re: Yamaha CP1 versus CP5 [Re: Dave Horne]
Kawai James Offline
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 8385
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
The perceived 'weight' of both digital and acoustic piano keyboard actions can vary from brand to brand, and sometimes across series' of models within the same brand.

Furthermore, acoustic piano keyboard actions (and even some digital piano keyboard actions) can be regulated to adjust the perceived 'weight' of the key stroke to feel lighter or heavier depending on the player's preference.

Finally, keyboard 'weight' can be measured in both static and dynamic terms - it is arguably too simplistic to simply state that keyboard A is heavier than keyboard B.

By the way, how did this thread about a chap wishing to buy a piano for the love of his life descend into yet another argument about the merits of acoustic vs digital keyboard actions?

Cheers,
James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

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#1457844 - 06/16/10 07:28 PM Re: Yamaha CP1 versus CP5 [Re: Melodialworks Music]
Dave Horne Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/07/04
Posts: 5260
Loc: Vught, The Netherlands
Originally Posted By: Melodialworks Music
Originally Posted By: 27Jan
As one who has shopped and purchased a digital piano recently, I can attest to the fact that a, the Yamaha CP1 and CP 5 do not have a graded hammer action and b, It is of very little consequence that they don't.


I absolutely disagree with this. If you are wanting to do AP work, the graded action does in fact make a significant difference.


By the way, how did this thread about a chap wishing to buy a piano for the love of his life descend into yet another argument about the merits of acoustic vs digital keyboard actions?

See above ... smile
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#1457848 - 06/16/10 07:32 PM Re: Yamaha CP1 versus CP5 [Re: Dave Horne]
Kawai James Offline
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 8385
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
Yes, that was a somewhat rhetorical question...

Cheers,
James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

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#1457931 - 06/16/10 10:17 PM Re: Yamaha CP1 versus CP5 [Re: Dave Horne]
snazzyplayer Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/26/09
Posts: 983
Loc: Earth
Originally Posted By: Dave Horne



I have never played a digital piano that made me sweat. I have played many acoustic grands that made me work for my money.



That's more of an indication your antiperspirant is working. wink

Originally Posted By: Dave Horne


I have played many acoustic grands that made me work for my money.




Must have just been your poor luck to run into such a string of poorly maintained or improperly regulated instruments. wink

Snazzy
_________________________
Semper Gumby: Always flexible \:^)

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#1457957 - 06/16/10 11:04 PM Re: Yamaha CP1 versus CP5 [Re: snazzyplayer]
Melodialworks Music Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/19/05
Posts: 1309
Loc: Canada
Good grief. This is the digital piano forum, is it not? And digital pianos include, well, ACOUSTIC PIANO sounds, last time I checked.

By AP I meant Acoustic Piano on the CP1 / CP5. I don't agree that the lack of graded action on the CP1 / CP5 is not important. It apparently is fine for electric pianos. I wasn't referring to the action on acoustic pianos, but the acoustic piano patches on the CP1 / CP5. I thought that this thread was about the CP1 / CP5 and so that was what I was commenting on. I bought the CP1 for only AP use, and ended up returning it. I do not recommend the action in it. It is lacking for several reasons, ONE of which is the lack of graded, which I will repeat IS INDEED very important.

Hopefully that at least makes my position clear - especially to James and Dave!
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Melodialworks Music
Yamaha C3X
Yamaha CP300 + Omnisphere
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#1457966 - 06/16/10 11:26 PM Re: Yamaha CP1 versus CP5 [Re: Kawai James]
snazzyplayer Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/26/09
Posts: 983
Loc: Earth
Originally Posted By: Kawai James
Yes, that was a somewhat rhetorical question...

Cheers,
James
x


Yes it was James, and it was the first time I've ever seen you ask one. wink

Snazzy
_________________________
Semper Gumby: Always flexible \:^)

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Fazioli "factory tour" video.
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