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#1458042 - 06/17/10 04:00 AM Re: Yamaha CP1 versus CP5 [Re: snazzyplayer]
EssBrace Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/01/09
Posts: 2322
Loc: Suffolk, United Kingdom
Fully accept we have gone off topic...but need to have my say!

What Dave is saying is absolute rubbish. ALL DPs have lighter actions than ALL APs...just nonsense. As Snazzy says, it's just a sweeping statement, a generalisation. For what it's worth I did use some small kitchen scale weights a while ago. The heavier bass notes on a Clavinova with GH3 action were something in the region of 80g. What surprised me is that the keys on my V-Piano at the time were maybe 60g ish. This difference was reflected across the keyboard. However, I perceived the V-Piano to have a slightly weightier action so the precise weight alone does not tell the whole story.

Steve
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Yamaha CP1

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#1458054 - 06/17/10 04:37 AM Re: Yamaha CP1 versus CP5 [Re: EssBrace]
Dave Horne Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/07/04
Posts: 5260
Loc: Vught, The Netherlands
Interesting, I look at the profiles of the good folks here and can learn no substantive information about their actual playing ability or history.

Nonsense I say, just nonsense. smile
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#1458057 - 06/17/10 04:59 AM Re: Yamaha CP1 versus CP5 [Re: Dave Horne]
Dave Horne Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/07/04
Posts: 5260
Loc: Vught, The Netherlands
Quote:
My background in playing is limited. What I'm looking for is for my wife to have the sound and feel of a piano, without actually buying an acoustic model.


Have you ruled out the Yamaha AvantGrand N2? Your wife would have a real grand piano action in a very nice upright piano case. The added advantage is the grand piano action, since no digital keyboard action will replace the feel of a real acoustic grand piano action - graded hammers or not. wink


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#1458069 - 06/17/10 06:30 AM Re: Yamaha CP1 versus CP5 [Re: Dave Horne]
Melodialworks Music Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/19/05
Posts: 1309
Loc: Canada
Originally Posted By: Dave Horne


Have you ruled out the Yamaha AvantGrand N2? Your wife would have a real grand piano action in a very nice upright piano case. The added advantage is the grand piano action, since no digital keyboard action will replace the feel of a real acoustic grand piano action - graded hammers or not. wink




Nice photo, but realize that you'll likely need to have the lid raised to get the best sound, which certainly impacts the aesthetics. The photo at the official website (avant-grand.com) shows the N2 with the lid raised.
_________________________
Melodialworks Music
Yamaha C3X
Yamaha CP300 + Omnisphere
Yamaha NU1 + Production Grand

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#1458071 - 06/17/10 06:36 AM Re: Yamaha CP1 versus CP5 [Re: Melodialworks Music]
Dave Horne Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/07/04
Posts: 5260
Loc: Vught, The Netherlands
Quote:
Nice photo, but realize that you'll likely need to have the lid raised to get the best sound, which certainly impacts the aesthetics. The photo at the official website (avant-grand.com) shows the N2 with the lid raised.


Sigh, yes, much like an acoustic piano, the lid can be opened for a more richer sound.
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#1458087 - 06/17/10 08:03 AM Re: Yamaha CP1 versus CP5 [Re: Melodialworks Music]
snazzyplayer Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/26/09
Posts: 983
Loc: Earth
Originally Posted By: Melodialworks Music



Nice photo, but realize that you'll likely need to have the lid raised to get the best sound, which certainly impacts the aesthetics. The photo at the official website (avant-grand.com) shows the N2 with the lid raised.


Actually, Lawrence, I think the Avant Grand N2 is pretty homely with the lid raised, or closed.

It's like my my old mother-in-law...unbalanced. wink

Leaving the lid closed also negatively affects the sound...it is meant to be left open.

A no-win situation, no matter how you look at it.

Of course, this is purely my own opinion, my friend.

Snazzy
_________________________
Semper Gumby: Always flexible \:^)

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#1458096 - 06/17/10 08:24 AM Re: Yamaha CP1 versus CP5 [Re: snazzyplayer]
Dave Horne Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/07/04
Posts: 5260
Loc: Vught, The Netherlands
Quote:
Leaving the lid closed also negatively affects the sound...it is meant to be left open.


So, you've played it and can report back back on the sound with the lid open and closed?
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#1458102 - 06/17/10 08:52 AM Re: Yamaha CP1 versus CP5 [Re: Dave Horne]
snazzyplayer Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/26/09
Posts: 983
Loc: Earth
Originally Posted By: Dave Horne
Quote:
Leaving the lid closed also negatively affects the sound...it is meant to be left open.


So, you've played it and can report back back on the sound with the lid open and closed?


(Sigh)What a silly question, Dave. smirk

Of course I have played it...how else would I know?

I've also owned an N3 for several months, which I have since sold.

I'm not quite sure I'd hang my hat on any opinions you might have about the N2, Dave; considering your last blanket statement that all digital pianos have a lighter action than any acoustic grand pianos, I'm now inclined to view your reviews with the proverbial grain of salt.

Snazzy
_________________________
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#1458107 - 06/17/10 09:07 AM Re: Yamaha CP1 versus CP5 [Re: snazzyplayer]
Dave Horne Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/07/04
Posts: 5260
Loc: Vught, The Netherlands
I'm now inclined to view your reviews with the proverbial grain of salt.

Most folks from ... Earth might agree with you. laugh
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AvantGrand N3, CP5

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#1458111 - 06/17/10 09:15 AM Re: Yamaha CP1 versus CP5 [Re: snazzyplayer]
Melodialworks Music Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/19/05
Posts: 1309
Loc: Canada
It's strange that the Yamaha designers seemed to go out of their way to make the N3 look like a typical baby grand, whereas with the N2 they did not opt to make it look like a typical upright (or vertical). Trying for a so-called modern look, I guess. I would use another term to describe the look!

As Chef Ramsay would say "disappointing".
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Yamaha C3X
Yamaha CP300 + Omnisphere
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#1458134 - 06/17/10 10:03 AM Re: Yamaha CP1 versus CP5 [Re: ChrisA]
Wojtek Kowalewski Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 06/15/10
Posts: 4
Loc: Canada
Thanks a lot for all your help.

I think you are all right that it might be a good idea to let her know before a final purchase decision is made.

I actually did not even think of bringing headphones with me, always relying on pianos to be plugged into amps. That was a good idea that I would never come up with (that's why I ask all the silly questions.)

IKEA, if it does look like Ikea furniture, it would mean it would match 80% of my furniture, which happens to be Ikea.


And to clarify the decision to go electric vs acoustic:

Size (small house)
Portability (my wife's family is very musical, sometimes they get together and it turns into a singing event, something I can only appreciate but not necessarily take part in smile
Price, I think a really good quality acoustic is more expensive than really good electric.

My wife likes to play on piano/keyboards every time we visit someone who has one. The only thing she always commented on was the plastic hollow feel of an inexpensive keyboard. So I am thinking that as long as that feel is not there and it feel more like a piano (not necessarily exact), she will enjoy it.

My wife's is budget savvy, price is 70% of the decision for her. Me on the other hand, only the best will do for her. So most of the time we have to find a middle ground.

Wojtek

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#1458136 - 06/17/10 10:04 AM Re: Yamaha CP1 versus CP5 [Re: Melodialworks Music]
Kawai James Online   content
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 8382
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
I expect the N1 will be more reminiscent of an upright design.

(purely conjecture, of course...)

James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

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#1458159 - 06/17/10 10:57 AM Re: Yamaha CP1 versus CP5 [Re: Kawai James]
Melodialworks Music Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/19/05
Posts: 1309
Loc: Canada
Originally Posted By: Kawai James
I expect the N1 will be more reminiscent of an upright design.

(purely conjecture, of course...)

James
x


Maybe wishfull thinking on my part, but I hope you're right.
_________________________
Melodialworks Music
Yamaha C3X
Yamaha CP300 + Omnisphere
Yamaha NU1 + Production Grand

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#1458167 - 06/17/10 11:10 AM Re: Yamaha CP1 versus CP5 [Re: Melodialworks Music]
Kawai James Online   content
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 8382
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
Well, either that or a semi-portable stage piano with a real acoustic GP action - ideal for Pianoteq/Ivory fans.

Cheers,
James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

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#1458637 - 06/18/10 02:41 AM Re: Yamaha CP1 versus CP5 [Re: Kawai James]
Dave Ferris Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/12/07
Posts: 1675
Loc: Glendale, Ca.

cool
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2005 NY Steinway D, Nord Piano 2

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#1458651 - 06/18/10 03:41 AM Re: Yamaha CP1 versus CP5 [Re: Dave Ferris]
EssBrace Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/01/09
Posts: 2322
Loc: Suffolk, United Kingdom
Interesting point but there should be no need to mess around with the pre-amp stuff or indeed any of the other EP orientated parameters to get an AP patch to sound right. Other than AP related things like resonance settings, hammer hardness etc the APs should sound best when the other stuff is completely bypassed...there's got to be something wrong with the APs to start with if they don't in my opinion.

Steve
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Yamaha CP1

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#1458746 - 06/18/10 09:54 AM Re: Yamaha CP1 versus CP5 [Re: Dave Ferris]
dewster Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/07/09
Posts: 4268
Loc: Northern NJ
Originally Posted By: Dave Ferris
Without doing extensive editing, the CP5 sounded far inferior to the one on the CP-1. Maybe it's something to do with the extra preamp stage in the CP-1. Also If you look at the block comparison chart on the Yamaha CP page, it shows the CP-1 has having 2 S6 samples while the CP5 only one.

As I understand it, the CP-1 has two S6 patches, but only one S6 sample set. The difference between the patches is 2 or 3 band EQ *yawn*.

If the S6 sample set on the CP-5 is truly inferior then Yamaha is playing with fire.
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THE RD-700NX Thread!
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#1458803 - 06/18/10 11:04 AM Re: Yamaha CP1 versus CP5 [Re: dewster]
Dave Ferris Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/12/07
Posts: 1675
Loc: Glendale, Ca.
cool
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2005 NY Steinway D, Nord Piano 2

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#1474964 - 07/15/10 04:01 PM Re: Yamaha CP1 versus CP5 [Re: Wojtek Kowalewski]
weyered Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 07/15/10
Posts: 1
After all this talk about how heavy or light the action is (graded vs not graded, etc) I think EssBrace has the answer. He talks about finding that using simple kitchen weights that one DP needs 80g to press a key, and another takes 60g. Has anyone actually taken weights and tested say C-2-octaves-below-middle-C, middle C, and C-2-octaves-above-middle-C, and do this on some huge accoustic grands, and on several DPs?? Seems like at that point a reader could say "Oh - The CP-1 has a way lighter touch than the Roland RD-700SX", or "The CP-50 has a lot more weighting below middle C than the Calvinova", or even make some rash generalization like "All DPs have lighter actions than all accoustic pianos" (sorry, couldn't resist opening that can of worms again...)

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#1475014 - 07/15/10 05:10 PM Re: Yamaha CP1 versus CP5 [Re: Kawai James]
Auggiedoggy Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/06/09
Posts: 39
Loc: Ottawa, Ontario
I don't see any advantage of going with the CP-33 when you have the CP-50, which has a few extra pianos plus improved polyphony of 128 compared to 64 for the CP-33. They weigh about the same but I believe his wife will be playing it at home. Obviously the CP-33 will be cheaper being an older model (2006). The CP-300, a real tank, has a lot of sounds I would never use but his wife might have other requirements. It does have a pair of nice speakers on board which most stage pianos do not have.
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Yamaha CP-300, P-85, NP-30

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#1497804 - 08/17/10 11:23 AM Re: Yamaha CP1 versus CP5 [Re: Wojtek Kowalewski]
abomic Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 08/15/10
Posts: 7
Loc: France
Compilations Tuto - Yamaha CP5 almost everything .... but in French
http://www.audiokeys.net/forum/showthread.php?23766-CP5-Yamaha-Tout-savoir-Compil-de-liens-utiles

Summary of links:
- Videos quality
- Testing and analysis comparisons
- High resolution photos
- Fly-Transport Case
- Tips and Tricks Programming
- Survey for transmission to Yamaha for improvement
- Establishment of a community of users CP5
- Editing Software Mac / PC for editing / Swap, copy, bank performance

Compilations Tuto - Yamaha CP5 almost everything...
_________________________
French musician - CP5 Yamaha - Clavinova CLP 370 - F110 Roland - XV88 Roland - Motif Xs7 - Acoustic Piano - Accordeon Cavagnolo - Mix Yamaha 01 - Sound : APG DS12

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#1498865 - 08/18/10 06:53 PM Re: Yamaha CP1 versus CP5 [Re: snazzyplayer]
Brooks Reid Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/09/10
Posts: 26
Loc: United States
I purchased a Yamaha CP50 and now I have the CP5. For me the extra money was well worth it. The sound of the Grand Piano is the same but the CP50 does not have all the other sounds the CP5 has. The wooden keys of the CP5 are a joy to play and really connect with the sounds. The ability to split plus layer with 4 PARTS is a must for me and my live gig.

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#1499069 - 08/19/10 03:28 AM Re: Yamaha CP1 versus CP5 [Re: Brooks Reid]
Aidan Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/23/08
Posts: 371
Loc: UK
I made a fairly rough and ready short demo of CP5 sounds yesterday which I already posted on the Keyboard magazine forum but may prove helpful to people here.

The voices in the order you hear them are:

CF Grand
S6 Grand
RockBright
S6 Calm
CF+DX EP
71Rd Trem
71Rd Driven
73Rd Phaser

Apologies for the slight occasional distortion - the inputs on my audio interface were just set a little too hot, I think.

Here's the audio

Like others here, I was very sceptical of the CP1 and 5 when I heard Yamaha had gone with an ungraded action. But the moment I played the board, I forgot all about those qualms. The only negative thing I can find to say so far about my CP5 is that the interface is pretty inpenetrable to start with.
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#1499080 - 08/19/10 04:22 AM Re: Yamaha CP1 versus CP5 [Re: Aidan]
Dave Horne Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/07/04
Posts: 5260
Loc: Vught, The Netherlands
I don't know if I reported this issue here, but I've found yet another issue with the CP5.

If you create a Performance (User Bank) that uses a PreDrum (built in backing tracks) in AutoSync mode, the backing track starts playing when you access that Performance but you don't hear it. You have to fractionally move the Track volume control first. This is not an issue in the PreSet bank, just the User (and I'm assuming the EXT bank as well).
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#1499108 - 08/19/10 08:02 AM Re: Yamaha CP1 versus CP5 [Re: Dave Horne]
Kawai James Online   content
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 8382
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
Probably just a bug that slipped past the development team.

Report it to Yamaha directly and wait for them to fix it with a software update.

Cheers,
James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

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#1499111 - 08/19/10 08:05 AM Re: Yamaha CP1 versus CP5 [Re: Aidan]
EssBrace Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/01/09
Posts: 2322
Loc: Suffolk, United Kingdom
Aiden, thanks for uploading. Very nice playing. I enjoyed the demos very much. I like the APs. They sound very very clean. Not very much character but as I expect from Yamaha, very clear and balanced throughout the range. It might be the reverb or whatever that is just a bit too pristine but there's a sort of coldness to it all to my ears. This is an observation, not meant to be criticism at all. It certainly sounds like the action is allowing you to control lower velocities very well...I take it there's no correction going on?

The CF/DX sound is horrific...that sleazy, cheesy late 80s/90s sound. I half expected a cringe-worthy sax solo to break out during that one. Just my opinion!

The Rhodes sound nice...cleaner and meatier than my RD-700GX...I find the SN EPs a let-down on the RD (especially the Rhodes patches, that all sound so samey to me with I think a limited dynamic range) but I can't be bothered to endlessly tweak so they can probably give much more than I ever hear.

As has been said many times, the CP5 is clearly the nicest point in the new range. It'll be interesting to assess it against the upcoming new Kawai.

Cheers,

Steve
_________________________
Yamaha CP1

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#1499139 - 08/19/10 09:00 AM Re: Yamaha CP1 versus CP5 [Re: EssBrace]
dewster Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/07/09
Posts: 4268
Loc: Northern NJ
Yes, thank you Aiden, you play very well!

The CFIII mids sound slightly synthetic and decay somewhat too quickly - the DP variant I suppose of Woody Allen's joke "The food here is terrible. And such small portions." Though the lower and higher notes sound pretty good in your demo.
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The DPBSD Project!
THE RD-700NX Thread!
DPs Exposed! (nekid pichures!)

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#1499143 - 08/19/10 09:09 AM Re: Yamaha CP1 versus CP5 [Re: EssBrace]
Aidan Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/23/08
Posts: 371
Loc: UK
Cheers Steve. I think you could probably say that the RD700GX (which I also have - now due to stay in the studio, set up) is more characterful than the Yamaha, but I do think the CP5 has a slightly more consistent sound. Plus the Rhodes blow away the RD's. Wurli, it's a draw - neither as good as the Korg SV-1 or Nords.

However, I think it's a win overall for the Roland on any extra sounds, i.e. non-piano. The blurb for the CP range on the Yamaha site kind of implies that the extra sounds are equivalent of those in the Motif XS. As a Motif XS rack owner, I can tell you they're very definitely not. The Roland's clavs have more cut and variety. It also has the more intuitive interface.

Dave, I've now set up several performances in my user banks which use key-on to start the drums and I'm not experiencing the problem you've come across. Maybe an OS fix now being shipped with newer models which you need to grab from somewhere?
_________________________
Yamaha CP40 | Hammond SK1-61 | Kurzweil PC361

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#1499251 - 08/19/10 12:46 PM Re: Yamaha CP1 versus CP5 [Re: Aidan]
Dave Horne Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/07/04
Posts: 5260
Loc: Vught, The Netherlands
Aidan, since you did not have the same issue as I regarding the AutoSync \ PreDrum starting in the User Bank, I went back and looked at all the parameters in the Song setting.

I overlooked something. It does in fact work as it should.

I've also sent Yamaha a message about this apologizing for taking up their time with a non existent issue.
_________________________
website

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AvantGrand N3, CP5

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#1499400 - 08/19/10 05:05 PM Re: Yamaha CP1 versus CP5 [Re: Aidan]
NikkiPiano Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/05/10
Posts: 172
Loc: Hertfordshire, UK
Originally Posted By: Aidan

CF Grand


Nice playing. I'm wracking my brain trying to name the tune played with the CF Grand. I think it's a Celtic or Scottish folk song?

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