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#1459293 - 06/19/10 11:14 AM Re: Do You Have these Conversations with Your Students? [Re: wolfetho]
crogersrx Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/25/08
Posts: 712
Loc: San Francisco, CA
Originally Posted By: wolfetho
This year I will tell them that I am reserving their time slot for them, and they will be charged if they don't show up.

Tom


I'd tell them that the time slot will be reserved if they pay for it upfront. However, if they do not, I will not hold it if someone else requests that time slot. They can write and post-date a check. If they show up, great, nothing lost on their part. If they don't show up, great, nothing lost on your part.
_________________________
Cary Rogers, PharmD
San Francisco, CA
1887 Knabe 6'4" (Rebuilt)

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#1459294 - 06/19/10 11:15 AM Re: Do You Have these Conversations with Your Students? [Re: Ken Knapp]
John v.d.Brook Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/18/06
Posts: 7407
Loc: Olympia, Washington, USA
Originally Posted By: Ken Knapp
Anybody ever consider charging a fee for scheduling make-up lessons? After all, it takes your time to make those arrangements. Maybe a $10-$15 fee if sufficient notice is given, up to full lesson fee for no notice?

Ken

Ken, my lesson reschedule fee, as published in my Studio Policies, is 'no charge' if more than 48 hrs or more notice is provide, $10 for 24hrs notice, and $50 for an extra lesson. The reason I charge an extra lesson fee is because it's an extra lesson. That the student failed to attend the scheduled lesson is unfortunate, but my resources, both studio and teacher, were available and committed for that student. Now that they are wishing a second lesson, a second hour of studio time, providing it to them at a 65% to 80% discount or even for free, seems rather unreasonable.

With a rescheduled lesson, 48 hrs notice, I have a shot at putting another student in their stead and it seems fair and reasonable not to charge extra, except perhaps a very small reschedule fee (like the airlines do), but when someone calls an hour before, or 10 minutes into the lesson, then the studio sits idle and non-productive.

Most music schools these days are teaching music majors not to consider make-ups, to wipe "make-up" out of their vocabulary.

I understand the mind-set of many students, "But I didn't take a lesson, so why should I pay for one?" But you have engaged the studio and its resources. Your failure to show up and take the lesson doesn't negate your obligation to pay for what you committed to. It most certainly shouldn't become the burden of the studio to capitalize.
_________________________
"Those who dare to teach must never cease to learn." -- Richard Henry Dann
Full-time Private Piano Teacher offering Piano Lessons in Olympia, WA. www.mypianoteacher.com
Certified by the American College of Musicians; member NGPT, MTNA, WSMTA, OMTA

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#1459296 - 06/19/10 11:24 AM Re: Do You Have these Conversations with Your Students? [Re: dumdumdiddle]
crogersrx Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/25/08
Posts: 712
Loc: San Francisco, CA
Originally Posted By: dumdumdiddle
If you were to implement a 'no makeup lesson policy', it might help to cut down on parents who try to take advantage of you. But, YOU have to stick to your guns. If parents know when they sign up that you don't offer makeups for any reason, well... they know. If they don't like a teacher with a policy like that they will find someone else, right?


I think the one-on-one nature of the piano lessons makes it seem more like a situation that is flexible. If the teacher maintains consistency with being available at the arranged time, I see no reason why they should offer any free make-up lessons. I wouldn't put up with it if my job just randomely changed my hours. Why should a piano teacher have to put up with their clients randomely changing the schedule. You pay for Monday at 5:30-6:30... show up!
_________________________
Cary Rogers, PharmD
San Francisco, CA
1887 Knabe 6'4" (Rebuilt)

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#1459356 - 06/19/10 02:37 PM Re: Do You Have these Conversations with Your Students? [Re: Barb860]
Volusiano Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/01/10
Posts: 770
Even nice parents who are thoughtful and reasonable can still end up taking advantage of a teacher's relaxed policy unwittingly if the teacher allows it. They just think that as long as they're within the bounds of what the teacher's policy allows, they're not doing anything wrong. So it's not so much about trying to deal with only inconsiderate people, but it's much more about thinking up front what's fair for everyone, the teacher included, and come up with a clear policy that reflects this, and communicate it and enforce it.

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#1459360 - 06/19/10 02:45 PM Re: Do You Have these Conversations with Your Students? [Re: crogersrx]
Volusiano Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/01/10
Posts: 770
Originally Posted By: crogersrx
I think the one-on-one nature of the piano lessons makes it seem more like a situation that is flexible. If the teacher maintains consistency with being available at the arranged time, I see no reason why they should offer any free make-up lessons. I wouldn't put up with it if my job just randomely changed my hours. Why should a piano teacher have to put up with their clients randomely changing the schedule. You pay for Monday at 5:30-6:30... show up!
I agree, but I'd like to add that even teachers will have unexpected things that come up that may force them to reschedule once in a while, too. If this happens, it goes without saying that a refund or credit or free make-up is in the queue for the teacher missing that lesson. But if the reschedule is not for the teacher being sick or due to an emergency or very legit reason, the teacher should probably offer a complimentary lesson on top of the refund or credit for the missed lesson for the inconvenience of the reschedule. This goes a long way in showing parents that the teacher puts himself/herself on the hook just as much as they do on students/parents.

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#1459368 - 06/19/10 03:25 PM Re: Do You Have these Conversations with Your Students? [Re: Volusiano]
crogersrx Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/25/08
Posts: 712
Loc: San Francisco, CA
Volusiano, I agree. There are times that the teacher may have something that comes up, and in those cases, what's good for the goose is good for the gander.

In my case, my teacher was becoming increasingly otherwise occupied. It was always something like a funeral or someone with a hideous calamity, or she was struck blind, or laying paralyzed in bed for three weeks, or asthma, or God knows what. I felt bad leaving her, but I needed a piano teacher not excuses.

Likewise, I would assume that a good teacher would expect me as an adult, to give them the same courtesy as I would my job and prepare and come to the lesson, and pay on time.

I think that people don't really realize that the piano teacher is not doing this as some idle hobby, but to make a living. If I were a teacher, I'd be pretty strict, but would also keep up my end and lead by example. Sure, you don't want to drive people away, but some people need to be driven away.
_________________________
Cary Rogers, PharmD
San Francisco, CA
1887 Knabe 6'4" (Rebuilt)

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#1459378 - 06/19/10 04:06 PM Re: Do You Have these Conversations with Your Students? [Re: crogersrx]
wolfetho Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/02/04
Posts: 61
Great points everyone-here's one for you.

I had a student who broke her arm and it was in a cast
for 3 weeks. Then the family went on a trip the fourth week.
So now its 4 weeks that I've held their time slot and haven't been paid.
I understand that the broken arm is not their fault, but at the same time they wanted
to keep their time when they came back.

To make matters worse, they missed 2 lessons the month before and I didn't ask for a make-up because they occured on the 5th week of the month, and they paid me for 4 weeks. So in other words, we would have had 5 lessons and they would have paid me
for one extra lessson had they been in town.

Then the broken arm occurs. So now in effect I've lost payment for 6 weeks. So I explained to the mother that I had reserved their time and was unable to re-book it, so I think I should be paid for at least some of the time. The mother then calls me back and says OK she will pay me for 5 more lessons, and then they will stop for the summer. What she meant was she expected me to give them 5 more lessons(which she paid for), but I still end up being shorted at least 3 weeks
(not including the 3 weeks off for the broken arm).

As a business, how do I be fair to the customer, but at the same time actually make a living? It seems like you really have to be assertive at the risk of sounding too pushy in order to
make a living as a Music teacher.Many times it all comes back to reminding my clients that this is my living, because it seems that they don't take it seriously. In many cases its just entertainment for their kids..

Tom

Tom


Edited by wolfetho (06/19/10 06:41 PM)

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#1459417 - 06/19/10 05:27 PM Re: Do You Have these Conversations with Your Students? [Re: wolfetho]
Volusiano Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/01/10
Posts: 770
It would only seem fair that if parents decide to take their kids off for the summer (or even a month's time) that they shouldn't expect the teacher to keep that same time slot reserved for them when they come back. They should understand that they may have to settle for a less desirable time slot when they come back if the original time slot has already been given to someone else. The only time they're guaranteed a time slot is when they've already paid for it.

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#1459454 - 06/19/10 06:56 PM Re: Do You Have these Conversations with Your Students? [Re: wolfetho]
Ebony and Ivory Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/14/05
Posts: 1179
Loc: Minnesota
Originally Posted By: wolfetho
I had a student who broke her arm and it was in a cast
for 3 weeks. Then the family went on a trip the fourth week.
So now its 4 weeks that I've held their time slot and haven't been paid.Tom


I don't give my families that option. I encourage them to continue to come even if they are in a cast. The kids do everything else in the cast. There is plenty to do even if they can't play with that particular hand. Other hand drills, theory, composition etc.... Most casts don't cover their fingers anyway.

I let them know that they can take the lessons off if they want to, but they are still expected to pay for it since it is their spot. Often times those casts stay on longer than 3 weeks! It states in my policy that they can miss 2 a semester, so if they wanted to, they could use those 2 spots, but then the other 2 would have been paid.

People are usually pretty understanding when you remind them that you have reserved that lesson time for little Johnny.
_________________________
It is better to be kind than to be right.

Professional private piano teacher since 1994.

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#1459458 - 06/19/10 07:21 PM Re: Do You Have these Conversations with Your Students? [Re: Ebony and Ivory]
wolfetho Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/02/04
Posts: 61
I guess I should have been more assertive in that situation.

What would you say if the parent came back and said,
"well this isn't our fault," why should we have to pay
for these lessons?"

the funny thing is-these things always seem to happen
right at the time when they owe you money for the next
month.

Tom

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#1459483 - 06/19/10 08:11 PM Re: Do You Have these Conversations with Your Students? [Re: wolfetho]
Ebony and Ivory Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/14/05
Posts: 1179
Loc: Minnesota
Originally Posted By: wolfetho
What would you say if the parent came back and said,
"well this isn't our fault," why should we have to pay
for these lessons?"Tom


I would say "I know it! And it is a huge bummer for her, but we can work around it so she doesn't lose any ground while she's in the cast".
If they got cranky and still insisted, I would say "I am sorry that she is hurt, but it also isn't my fault and I don't think you really want me to give up her spot"
_________________________
It is better to be kind than to be right.

Professional private piano teacher since 1994.

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#1459509 - 06/19/10 09:01 PM Re: Do You Have these Conversations with Your Students? [Re: wolfetho]
John v.d.Brook Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/18/06
Posts: 7407
Loc: Olympia, Washington, USA
Originally Posted By: wolfetho
What would you say if the parent came back and said,"well this isn't our fault," why should we have to pay
for these lessons?"

Tom

Tom, two points: First, never let the conversation descend into a blame game. In reality, it is their fault, but this is a no-win argument for you to get into. Most of the time, when a student breaks an arm, finger, whatever, it's because the student broke it through carelessness. Very rarely do they encounter a flying object which just happens to intersect their arm and causes the break.

Second, the proper rejoinder is not to respond to the bait, but rather, to state something like: Mrs. XXX, you contracted for lessons with me at such and such time and location every week. We all expect people to honor their agreements, and of course, I am sure you're the type of individual who will honor your agreements.

A side note to agree with those who basically said you should have students come to lessons, broken bones or not. Practice the other hand, go over theory, have them sight read one hand of a duet. Lot's of activities. You can discuss music history and composers with them as well. You can work with them analyzing music for identifying its structure. Basically, the student should be at the lesson if they are able to get out of bed!
_________________________
"Those who dare to teach must never cease to learn." -- Richard Henry Dann
Full-time Private Piano Teacher offering Piano Lessons in Olympia, WA. www.mypianoteacher.com
Certified by the American College of Musicians; member NGPT, MTNA, WSMTA, OMTA

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#1459542 - 06/19/10 10:08 PM Re: Do You Have these Conversations with Your Students? [Re: John v.d.Brook]
Sparkler Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/27/09
Posts: 177
Been reading this thread with interest... it seems this kind of topic comes up a lot. I have some suggestions as to how to avoid this kind of situation altogether, some of which I'm already implementing in my studio and some of which I will be implementing in the fall when my old policy runs out.

Since it's summer now and fall is coming up, I thought I'd just share, for what it's worth.

1) Take one day every quarter and make that "Make up Day". Students may schedule one make up lesson on designated Make up day every quarter. This should keep attendance more serious, as they know they only get one make up each semester.

2) No rescheduling ever, UNLESS I'm the one that has canceled on them. If I had to cancel then I will bend over backwards to accommodate them, OR offer a refund. The only other instance I could think of for a reschedule is if some big horrible tragedy truly happened to the student at the last minute. Then I would offer to reschedule out of human kindness. smile

3) Summer - I do not hold spots unless students sign up for at least 6 lessons in the summer.

Seems to be that by implementing some of these things, I should be able to be nice and firm on my policies and yet still fair and accommodating to a certain degree.

What do you all think?


Edited by Sparkler (06/19/10 10:09 PM)
_________________________
Pianist
Accompanist
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and best of all...
Mom!

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#1459552 - 06/19/10 10:31 PM Re: Do You Have these Conversations with Your Students? [Re: Sparkler]
wolfetho Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/02/04
Posts: 61
Hello Sparkler:

You make some good suggestions. One difference in my situation is
that I'm driving to half of my student's homes. I guess that's all the more reason
that I should be less flexible on make-ups.

One thing I will do this fall is say, 2 make-ups per semester. Anything over this
will have to be arranged either at my house or if I can extend their lesson time while I'm at their home. I'm not going to be making second trips back to their home for a make-up.

I'm just concerned that with my clientele they will just quit, and I can't afford to lose any more students. Things have slowed down considerably this summer.I'm going to have to be very clear right from the start and make sure they understand my policies. What has happened in the past is when I explain the policy in the beginning, many of them say-"what happens when we go on vacation," etc. I've said, I will work with you as long as it doesn't become a regular thing. But with kids and sports in school, I've had to make so many accomodations
that I'm afraid if I wasn't flexible they wouldn't continue.I've got one client who changes her lesson time every month to fit around her after-school sports.

Tom

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#1459569 - 06/19/10 11:39 PM Re: Do You Have these Conversations with Your Students? [Re: wolfetho]
John v.d.Brook Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/18/06
Posts: 7407
Loc: Olympia, Washington, USA
Tom,

It's always good to review these subjects here; it's helpful to gain other ideas, especially from experienced teachers who have had to face these economic cycles more than once in their career.

All of us are going through some tough times, and depending on who you listen to, things are going to dramatically improve or dramatically decline. Let's hope it's the former.

Most of our students are school-aged who are tied to a public/private school calendar. When they have breaks, they may take off to visit relatives, make family trips, camp, go to the beech, etc. Some teachers are able to maintain a full enrollment year around, because their clientele is focused strongly on music, and not other activities, relatives live locally, or many other reasons.

Most of us find that we fall into the first camp - the majority of our students are scarce over the summer months. To combat this, I have broken my study year into two parts.

Part I - The School Year. I offer 36 weekly lessons which fall on the weeks students are in school. I download the local school district's academic calender, and that becomes my guide. There is absolutely no sense in trying to teach the week of Thanksgiving, Christmas/New Year's break, or Spring break. Color the students gone! The school system actually has 38 weeks, but I take one of those weeks for attending WPPC, and as noted above, I don't teach the Thanksgiving week. It makes life a whole less complicated. I charge tuition - for the school year. Parents may, and most do, pay it in monthly installments. My monthly billing statement shows the total tuition due and what's been paid to date. Since switching to this, complaints have vanished. Parents get a monthly reminder that they're not paying "by the lesson."

Part II - the Summer Break. This is our big bugaboo. I set aside two days of the week for teaching. Students start coming at 9AM. Generally, somewhere from 1/2 to 2/3rds of my students are coming each week, but the mix is really a scheduling challenge. I also offer a teaser rate, to entice parents to keep students going as much as possible, when they are in town. I view it as better to fill those days as much as possible, even at a substantially lower rate, then to be idle. Parents get a bill every couple of weeks. Never had any problems with parents paying.

Summer is also when a number of new students begin, so you get them going without distractions from other extra curricular activities.

Make-ups. What exactly is a makeup lesson? It's a demand by your clients that you provide two hours for the price of one. Is this really what you want to do? Seriously? Don't do makeups. It's nothing but a nightmare and financial loser for you. The best way is to head this off in the initial interview. We spend time first getting to know the student, playing a bit, etc., then I turn to the parents, and begin by saying that, regretfully, I must put on my businessman hat for a few moments and discuss the business side of taking lessons. I talk about tuition, and then, before parents can even broach the subject of missed lessons, I point out to them that I fully realize that through the year, their student is going to have to miss a lesson or two for various reasons. This is calculated in the overall tuition. If they are on the ball, contact me in advance, they may reschedule the lesson, if a suitable time is available for both them and me. If they forget, it's just one of those things. I don't offer two lessons for the price of one. When you present the issue fairly, but firmly, most parents accept it for what it is; should someone bring up the subject later on, you can remind them that their tuition takes into account that they will probably miss a lesson or two, so if their student makes every lesson, they get a couple of "free" lessons, and if not, they're not losing anything.
_________________________
"Those who dare to teach must never cease to learn." -- Richard Henry Dann
Full-time Private Piano Teacher offering Piano Lessons in Olympia, WA. www.mypianoteacher.com
Certified by the American College of Musicians; member NGPT, MTNA, WSMTA, OMTA

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#1459591 - 06/20/10 12:53 AM Re: Do You Have these Conversations with Your Students? [Re: John v.d.Brook]
wolfetho Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/02/04
Posts: 61
John- thanks for the advice. Its comforting to know
that other teachers face the same challenges as I do.
I'm going to go over my policy again with all of my
existing students this fall.

I was actually considering doing what you're saying
and building into the cost of lessons about 4 absences for the year.
It would be so much simpler to do this and not have any make-ups.

Tom

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#1459739 - 06/20/10 10:49 AM Re: Do You Have these Conversations with Your Students? [Re: wolfetho]
Overexposed Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/22/08
Posts: 2649
Tom,

I had a parent who would decide to take off a month here and a month there. After that I added a new policy: If you take unpaid leave from lessons, there is a re-enrollment fee upon return to lessons. It's approximately equal to one month's tuition.

The one exception to this is, that in summer they are allowed 4 weeks off with no re-enrollment fee to return. This also gives a financial motivation to parents not to take off more than 4 weeks during summer.

My policy is that during unpaid leave from lessons, their lesson time is not reserved for them.

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#1459812 - 06/20/10 12:54 PM Re: Do You Have these Conversations with Your Students? [Re: Overexposed]
wolfetho Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/02/04
Posts: 61
Anne:

That's a good idea (re-enrollment fee). Is this working for you?
How do you handle this during the summer if they decide to take
2 weeks here and a week there etc.. Is it cumulative?

Thanks,

Tom

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#1459892 - 06/20/10 04:17 PM Re: Do You Have these Conversations with Your Students? [Re: wolfetho]
Overexposed Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/22/08
Posts: 2649
Hi Tom,
It is working well. I allow a pay per lesson rate for June and July only...must be paid at first scheduled lesson of the month. So if they pay for 4 lessons over June/July it means they have no re-enrollment fee.

So far I have one student who is taking off one month. The re-enrollment fee has motivated parents to only take off one month--last year he took off June and July. So no one will have to pay the re-enrollment fee.

I only allow the pay per lesson rate for June and July. So any unpaid leave from lessons at other times means they have the re-enrollment fee. It keeps people from taking off in December or other times they might feel like it. This is my first year to have the re-enrollment fee and so far only one person has had to pay it.

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#1459918 - 06/20/10 05:12 PM Re: Do You Have these Conversations with Your Students? [Re: Overexposed]
John v.d.Brook Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/18/06
Posts: 7407
Loc: Olympia, Washington, USA
The other perspective that the enrollment fee actually defrays costs which students incur. I don't charge a recital fee, an audition prep fee, etc., etc., and the enrollment fee, which is annual and paid every year, covers these and many more items. Keyboard Explorer is another example. Custom made certificates, prizes, awards, etc., etc.

Just another idea to digest!
_________________________
"Those who dare to teach must never cease to learn." -- Richard Henry Dann
Full-time Private Piano Teacher offering Piano Lessons in Olympia, WA. www.mypianoteacher.com
Certified by the American College of Musicians; member NGPT, MTNA, WSMTA, OMTA

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