Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 2 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

SEARCH
the Forums & Piano World

This custom search works much better than the built in one and allows searching older posts.
(ad) Pianoteq
Latest Pianoteq add-on instrument: U4 upright piano
(ad) Pearl River
Pearl River Pianos
(ad) P B Guide
Acoustic & Digital Piano Guide
PianoSupplies.com (150)
Piano Accessories Music Related Gifts Piano Tuning Equipment Piano Moving Equipment
We now offer Gift Certificates in our online store!
(ad) Estonia Piano
Estonia Piano
Quick Links to Useful Stuff
Our Classified Ads
Find Piano Professionals-

*Piano Dealers - Piano Stores
*Piano Tuners
*Piano Teachers
*Piano Movers
*Piano Restorations
*Piano Manufacturers
*Organs

Quick Links:
*Advertise On Piano World
*Free Piano Newsletter
*Online Piano Recitals
*Piano Recitals Index
*Piano Accessories
* Buying a Piano
*Buying A Acoustic Piano
*Buying a Digital Piano
*Pianos for Sale
*Sell Your Piano
*How Old is My Piano?
*Piano Books
*Piano Art, Pictures, & Posters
*Directory/Site Map
*Contest
*Links
*Virtual Piano
*Music Word Search
*Piano Screen Saver
*Piano Videos
*Virtual Piano Chords
Page 1 of 2 1 2 >
Topic Options
#1458426 - 06/17/10 06:44 PM Do You Have these Conversations with Your Students?
wolfetho Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/02/04
Posts: 60
I'm finding that I often have to remind the parents of my students
that they signed an agreement when it comes to the following:

1. 24 hr notice for canceling lessons
2. 14-day notice for discontinuing lessons

How do you remind your students/parents about these things in a
professional way without making them feel guilty? I find I'm often
explaining to them that this is my living and without the proper notice, I have no way of filling that time slot.

Any suggestions are greatly appreciated.

Thanks,

Tom

Top
(ad) My Music Staff
Check out the new way to manage your music studio
#1458436 - 06/17/10 06:55 PM Re: Do You Have these Conversations with Your Students? [Re: wolfetho]
Kreisler Offline


Registered: 11/27/02
Posts: 13706
Loc: Iowa City, IA
What are the consequences if they don't follow those guidelines?

Top
#1458450 - 06/17/10 07:18 PM Re: Do You Have these Conversations with Your Students? [Re: wolfetho]
Jbyron Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/17/10
Posts: 482
Loc: USA
I'm not a piano teacher but I experience the same problems occasionally. I've found that appointments will be missed no matter what you say. If someone fails an appointment it's usually an accident anyway. I just chalk it up as part of the business. yin and yang. Luckily there's a lot more yin than yang. LOL
_________________________
Tuner-Technician



Top
#1458468 - 06/17/10 07:48 PM Re: Do You Have these Conversations with Your Students? [Re: Jbyron]
Stanny Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/08/06
Posts: 1461
I think all my piano families know the rules, but sometimes they still ask. Just last week, I had a student completely forget to come to their lesson, then I got an email after the fact saying they were quite busy, and could they reschedule. At a recent conference I attended, I was told a good response to this request would be, "Oh, you mean you would like a FREE lesson?" But I just couldn't get those words out to this parent. I didn't offer another lesson, but I did say perhaps the student could stay a bit longer for the next lesson.

Another student today remembered too late to actually get here for more than about 10 minutes. It must be the summer forgetfulness season!
_________________________
~Stanny~

Independent Music Teacher
Certified Piano Teacher, American College of Musicians
Member: MTNA, NGPT, ASMTA, NAMTA

Top
#1458471 - 06/17/10 07:53 PM Re: Do You Have these Conversations with Your Students? [Re: Kreisler]
wolfetho Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/02/04
Posts: 60
The consequences for canceling a lesson without giving at least 24 hours notice is they
lose the option to make-up that lesson.This is what is supposed to happen. I find I'm
letting it slide more often than not in an effort to not cause friction with the parents.

If they don't give a two week notice for stopping their lessons, I will usually remind them
of the policy and most of the time they will either pay me or continue for 2 more weeks.

** You know the bottom line is- how to make people take our jobs seriously and not think that
this is just casual charity work that can be taken for granted.

Tom

Top
#1458475 - 06/17/10 08:02 PM Re: Do You Have these Conversations with Your Students? [Re: Kreisler]
Barb860 Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/11/09
Posts: 1644
Loc: northern California
Originally Posted By: Kreisler
What are the consequences if they don't follow those guidelines?


Great point, this is what it's about IMO.
I used to offer makeup lessons for people who no-showed and constantly were rescheduling at the last minute. By offering these consequences, I created my own resentment and problems in my studio.
No more. This was not a healthy way to operate a business.
My suggestion for you:
say something concise and positive like, "I offer makeup lessons when 24 hours notice is given" or whatever your studio policy states. Keep your response short and positive, saying what you CAN do. Be friendly, firm, and stick to your studio policy.
_________________________
Piano Teacher

Top
#1458477 - 06/17/10 08:07 PM Re: Do You Have these Conversations with Your Students? [Re: Stanny]
wolfetho Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/02/04
Posts: 60
Stanny- Regarding the "free lesson", I had the same thing happen yesterday. I had a mother of a student call me 40 minutes before the lesson and very casually say, that her son won't be in
for his lesson. Then she immediately asks for a make-up. So she cancels the lesson giving me no
chance to fill the time slot, and then she wants a make-up two days later. I gave in because she's been with me for over a year, but it really made me mad. I guess I need to explain to her
that I lose the time when she gives me no notice.

I think a lot of parents just think that they've paid for the lesson so they have the right to cancel at the last minute.This same parent told me last Summer that they would be back
to continue lessons in August so I held their time for them. Guess what- they ended up not
starting till September. Do I ask them to pay me for that month that I held their time slot?
This year I will tell them that I am reserving their time slot for them, and they will be charged if they don't show up.

Tom

Top
#1458479 - 06/17/10 08:10 PM Re: Do You Have these Conversations with Your Students? [Re: wolfetho]
wolfetho Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/02/04
Posts: 60
Barb-excellent advice!

Tom

Top
#1458481 - 06/17/10 08:11 PM Re: Do You Have these Conversations with Your Students? [Re: wolfetho]
Barb860 Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/11/09
Posts: 1644
Loc: northern California
We all have this stuff happen but it's my experience that it can be minimized by not giving in and offering that makeup lesson. I know it's hard to say no and not offer the makeup, but the more we let this stuff slide and give in, the more times people will take advantage. I know, we're just being nice, considerate, and generous by allowing for this type of behavior, but is the reverse true? Are the people that no-show and ask to reschedule at the last minute being considerate? No.

This advice has been offered to me many times in this forum, I find it helpful, and we need to keep supporting each other by passing it along.


Edited by Barb860 (06/17/10 08:17 PM)
_________________________
Piano Teacher

Top
#1458495 - 06/17/10 08:50 PM Re: Do You Have these Conversations with Your Students? [Re: Barb860]
Jennifer Eklund Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/16/09
Posts: 162
Loc: SoCal
I make the parents sign a new "studio policy" at the beginning of each school year after reading all the cancellation policies.

I also try to be flexible because I've found that sometimes *I* need them to bend to my school schedule so for me it's a two-way street.

However, when it starts to become a recurring thing I pull out their signed contract and remind them of the rules.
_________________________
FREE 90-page eBook of sheet music: www.pianopronto.com/specialoffer

Piano Pronto Music Books: www.pianopronto.com

BA in Piano/MA Musicology



Top
#1458509 - 06/17/10 09:42 PM Re: Do You Have these Conversations with Your Students? [Re: Jennifer Eklund]
wolfetho Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/02/04
Posts: 60
Jennifer:

Yes, I plan to go over the policy again with everyone this fall.
I still can't figure out why it so hard to get the parents to think
of their lessons as a "class" that runs month to month. Would they
be able to ask the teacher at their school or college if they could
make up a class they missed? Why are piano lessons any different?

Tom

Top
#1458537 - 06/17/10 10:31 PM Re: Do You Have these Conversations with Your Students? [Re: wolfetho]
Volusiano Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/01/10
Posts: 770
I think even a 24-hour cancellation notice policy is still very lenient. There's very little chance the teacher can manage to fill that spot within 24 hours anyway. Imagine if a parent cancels on you 3 or 4 times in a row but gave you 24-hour notice so they still abide by your policy. How would you like that? Most probably not!

I think what's more fair is to allow a free make-up only if there hasn't been a cancellation/free make-up X times before, and the teacher can determine what this X times is in their policy. I think a reasonable number for X is maybe 12 times (3 months). This should be sufficient for the occasional illness or emergency. If you're in school or working, you wouldn't be able to miss school or work more often than once every 12 days and get away with it, would you? Same with piano lessons. And a missed lesson already paid for (but not qualified for a free make-up) still counts toward this X number, of course, to be fair. It's not about how many missed lessons prior to the free make-up. It's really about how many previously paid lessons that would enable the entitlement of the free make-up.

If parents complain that X=12 is too long, you can clarify to them that you're not asking them to book 3 months worth of lessons. If you normally ask parents to book only 4 lessons at a time (1 month worth) like many teachers do, parents always have a chance to book around planned absences. For example, if they plan a vacation for week 3, they can just book weeks 1, 2, 4, and 5 and skip week 3. But if they have last minute changes on the 4 lessons they already booked, it should be their problem and not yours.

There can be a million reasons to cancel lessons and still be able to cancel with 24-hr notice. Student's been invited to a birthday party. Family decides to go camping that weekend. Relatives in town for a visit. On and on. Why should teachers be left holding the bag with a 24-hour cancellation for these choices made by parents at the teacher's expense, while they're holding up their end of their bargain and keep their schedule reserved for those lessons.

Top
#1458540 - 06/17/10 10:35 PM Re: Do You Have these Conversations with Your Students? [Re: wolfetho]
AnneJ Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/27/10
Posts: 48
Loc: Toronto, ON
Probably because if a student misses a class at school/university, the class still runs because other students show up. So the teacher still teaches.

However, they probably regard one-on-one lessons as a private and mutually agreeable arrangement that can be altered on a whim by either party. You need to make it clear that you are not available "whenever", and that to reserve the lesson time for the student every week, they owe you for that time even if they can't come. If you have exceptions (eg. sufficient notice, or sudden extreme illness), you should spell these out clearly, along with what the arrangements are likely to be in these cases. Be as consistent as possible. People talk.

Parents will ask for things anyway and you can't really stop this because it's human nature. While annoying, this isn't really the problem. The problem is when they insist your policies don't apply to them.

Top
#1458548 - 06/17/10 10:44 PM Re: Do You Have these Conversations with Your Students? [Re: AnneJ]
dumdumdiddle Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/16/06
Posts: 1250
Loc: California
If you were to implement a 'no makeup lesson policy', it might help to cut down on parents who try to take advantage of you. But, YOU have to stick to your guns. If parents know when they sign up that you don't offer makeups for any reason, well... they know. If they don't like a teacher with a policy like that they will find someone else, right?
_________________________
Music School Owner
Early Childhood Music Teacher/Group Piano Teacher/Private Piano Teacher
Member of MTAC and Guild

Top
#1458708 - 06/18/10 07:56 AM Re: Do You Have these Conversations with Your Students? [Re: dumdumdiddle]
Lollipop Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/28/09
Posts: 820
Loc: Georgia
I also have a very hard time sticking to my policy. I do notice that I have an easier time dealing with it via email, rather than "thinking on my feet." In an email, I am comfortable saying, "It is my policy to not give make-ups for missed lessons. If you need another copy of the policy, let me know and I'd be happy to send you one."

I send out monthly general info emails, and this year, I plan to have a tag line reminding them that no make-ups will be given for last minute cancellations, so please don't ask. Maybe if they see it often enough, it will sink in.

Part of the problem is that I teach out of my home, and many people think I haven't "lost" anything because I can do chores or whatever if they aren't here. And because I don't have back to back to back students, they figure I have flexibility.
_________________________
piano teacher

Top
#1458717 - 06/18/10 08:29 AM Re: Do You Have these Conversations with Your Students? [Re: AnneJ]
Morodiene Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/06/07
Posts: 10775
Loc: Boynton Beach, FL
Originally Posted By: AnneJ


However, they probably regard one-on-one lessons as a private and mutually agreeable arrangement that can be altered on a whim by either party. You need to make it clear that you are not available "whenever", and that to reserve the lesson time for the student every week, they owe you for that time even if they can't come. If you have exceptions (eg. sufficient notice, or sudden extreme illness), you should spell these out clearly, along with what the arrangements are likely to be in these cases. Be as consistent as possible. People talk.


I think one could also reverse this argument to the parent: "How would you like it if you showed up for a lesson and the child was prepared to play what they had worked on all week and came with their books, only to find the teacher not there? Then getting a call as you were waiting that the lesson would be canceled? Certainly, you'd think that unfair and a waste of your time."
_________________________
private piano/voice teacher - full time
MTNA member
www.valeoconservatory.com
Petrof 9'2 Concert, Yamaha G3, Roland FP-7, Yamaha MOX6, Kawai MP11

Top
#1458728 - 06/18/10 09:17 AM Re: Do You Have these Conversations with Your Students? [Re: Morodiene]
Ann in Kentucky Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/22/08
Posts: 2643
Loc: Kentucky
My policy is that if parent gives 48 hours notice, I will offer a makeup lesson if one is available. There is no guarantee another time will be available.

But still last week I had a parent call 2 hours ahead to cancel and request a make-up. The answering machine got the call since I was teaching. And the same parent sent an email asking for a makeup. I responded to the email by saying thanks for letting me know your daugher wouldn't be here for her lesson. I went on to answer another question in his email. All week I worried that they were offended that I gave an indirect answer, and of that I didn't offer a makeup. I even wondered if they would discontinue lessons because of it.

This week the child showed up for lesson, and it was all OK. I had imagined that the parents were annoyed with me, but they weren't. I was relieved. My point it that I do stick with my policy, but it can be difficult. I even went so far as to tell the parent "I'm sorry that I wasn't able to reschedule her lesson last week". I know I had no reason to apologize other than to meet my own need to please people. But at least it brought up the issue, and that's how I found out they were not the least bit upset over it.

I felt upset that I was being asked to reschedule. But I have to accept that people will continue to ask. I just have to get more comfortable in saying no. It helps me to say that I won't be ABLE to reschedule, instead of saying I won't reschedule because you didn't give adequate notice.
_________________________
piano teacher

"She played upon her music box
a fancy air by chance,
And straightaway all her polka dots
began a lively dance."
-- Peter Newell

Top
#1458732 - 06/18/10 09:25 AM Re: Do You Have these Conversations with Your Students? [Re: dumdumdiddle]
John v.d.Brook Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/18/06
Posts: 7200
Loc: Olympia, Washington, USA
There are ways of being polite, nice and sincere while telling parents to go take a leap.

"I'm so sorry David will be missing his lesson today. I was so looking forward to hearing his progress on that Ballade, and finding out how he's done tackling that Shostakovitch. But life happens - we all know that. We'll see you next week. In the mean time, tell David I'll be pulling for him and to keep up the good work." (Don't say this unless you really mean it, otherwise, your tone will betray you!).

If parent continues to insist, say, "Of course, I may be able to find a free opening later in the week, but I just want to remind you that there is a $50 additional lesson fee if I add an extra lesson in for David."

And if the parent continues to insist, you can further remind them that "Rescheduled lessons must be made at least 24/48 hours in advance."

"When you signed up for lessons, we covered the no make-up lesson policy and the reasons why. You told me you understood and accepted it. And we covered lesson rescheduling, if openings happened to be available, with 24/48 hrs advanced notice. I sincerely regret that this week, I just don't have any openings available for David."


Always try to stay positive and on-topic. It's best to avoid anything which can become argumentative.
_________________________
"Those who dare to teach must never cease to learn." -- Richard Henry Dann
Full-time Private Piano Teacher offering Piano Lessons in Olympia, WA. www.mypianoteacher.com
Certified by the American College of Musicians; member NGPT, MTNA, WSMTA, OMTA

Top
#1458806 - 06/18/10 11:05 AM Re: Do You Have these Conversations with Your Students? [Re: wolfetho]
Kreisler Offline


Registered: 11/27/02
Posts: 13706
Loc: Iowa City, IA
Actions speak louder than words. Your actions (letting it slide) are different than your words (studio policy), so you've made it known that your studio policy isn't really valid.

Put another way - why do you expect your clients to follow your policy when you don't follow it yourself?

Originally Posted By: wolfetho
The consequences for canceling a lesson without giving at least 24 hours notice is they lose the option to make-up that lesson.This is what is supposed to happen. I find I'm letting it slide more often than not in an effort to not cause friction with the parents.
_________________________
"If we continually try to force a child to do what he is afraid to do, he will become more timid, and will use his brains and energy, not to explore the unknown, but to find ways to avoid the pressures we put on him." (John Holt)

www.pianoped.com
www.youtube.com/user/UIPianoPed

Top
#1458817 - 06/18/10 11:23 AM Re: Do You Have these Conversations with Your Students? [Re: wolfetho]
Monica K. Offline

Platinum Supporter until Dec 31 2012


Registered: 08/10/05
Posts: 17699
Loc: Lexington, Kentucky
Originally Posted By: wolfetho
I still can't figure out why it so hard to get the parents to think of their lessons as a "class" that runs month to month. Would they be able to ask the teacher at their school or college if they could make up a class they missed? Why are piano lessons any different?



They're not, really. College students make just as many unreasonable requests. You'd be surprised at how many of my undergraduates will miss/skip class, then come to my office and ask me to go over "anything important" that they missed.

(This is a little O.T., but often when students ask me "did I miss anything important?", I'll just hand them a sheet of paper containing this poem: "Did I miss anything?" That's if I'm in a good mood. If I'm in a bad mood I just tell them that, as it states clearly in the syllabus, I am not responsible for repeating lecture material individually to students who miss class and that they will have to borrow notes from a classmate.)

p.s. Lest I sound like a heartless monster, I then offer to go over any questions they might have about the material AFTER they've borrowed the notes from a friend and have looked them over.


Edited by Monica K. (06/18/10 11:25 AM)
Edit Reason: added p.s. to avoid sounding like a big meanie.
_________________________
Mason & Hamlin A -- 91997
My YouTube channel: http://www.youtube.com/pianomonica

Top
#1458867 - 06/18/10 01:07 PM Re: Do You Have these Conversations with Your Students? [Re: Monica K.]
John v.d.Brook Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/18/06
Posts: 7200
Loc: Olympia, Washington, USA
Monika, I love that poem! Thanks for sharing it with us.
_________________________
"Those who dare to teach must never cease to learn." -- Richard Henry Dann
Full-time Private Piano Teacher offering Piano Lessons in Olympia, WA. www.mypianoteacher.com
Certified by the American College of Musicians; member NGPT, MTNA, WSMTA, OMTA

Top
#1458901 - 06/18/10 02:17 PM Re: Do You Have these Conversations with Your Students? [Re: John v.d.Brook]
thumper49 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/28/09
Posts: 170
Loc: Saskatchewan, Canada
Lovely! Tom taught at the college where I used to work decades ago. Thanks for unleashing a flood of memories!
_________________________



Currently working on: Suzuki Piano School, book 4, second half

Top
#1459152 - 06/18/10 10:52 PM Re: Do You Have these Conversations with Your Students? [Re: Lollipop]
Kawai_Teacher Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/23/10
Posts: 25
Originally Posted By: Lollipop


Part of the problem is that I teach out of my home, and many people think I haven't "lost" anything because I can do chores or whatever if they aren't here. And because I don't have back to back to back students, they figure I have flexibility.


Lollipop, I agree with you -- some parents think that because we're at home, we're sitting around doing nothing. I get bothered when they're 5 minutes early, 10 minutes early, 5 minutes late picking their kid up, etc. Since we're at home, we must not be doing anything important! Very annoying.

I like your idea about repeating the cancellation policy in your monthly email. If we keep repeating it to them, maybe they'll finally get the hint.

Top
#1459187 - 06/19/10 12:54 AM Re: Do You Have these Conversations with Your Students? [Re: wolfetho]
Kawai_Teacher Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/23/10
Posts: 25
Good questions Tom. I know, I don't enjoy reminding parents of studio rules either.

I wonder if anybody has enforced a fee when these types of studio rules are broken? Let's say that a parent calls the day of the lesson and says that they can't make it that day for a reason that's not so compelling (i.e, kid has to go to some school party, parent is working late, etc.). They don't tell you in advance and you can't fill that spot because it's so last minute.
I would think it's fair to charge a fee for such a last minute cancellation. If there's a monetary consequence, then they might take it more seriously.

I'm thinking about adding this to my policy...

Top
#1459207 - 06/19/10 02:17 AM Re: Do You Have these Conversations with Your Students? [Re: Kawai_Teacher]
Volusiano Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/01/10
Posts: 770
Originally Posted By: Kawai_Teacher
I wonder if anybody has enforced a fee when these types of studio rules are broken? Let's say that a parent calls the day of the lesson and says that they can't make it that day for a reason that's not so compelling (i.e, kid has to go to some school party, parent is working late, etc.). They don't tell you in advance and you can't fill that spot because it's so last minute.
I would think it's fair to charge a fee for such a last minute cancellation. If there's a monetary consequence, then they might take it more seriously.

I'm thinking about adding this to my policy..
Instead of trying to charge a penalty fee, which can get complicated and make you look bad, it's simpler to just have a policy of no free make-up or refund for missed lessons. I assume most teachers require advanced payment for X number of lessons at a time, so you should have already gotten paid for that missed lesson in the first place.

Furthermore, if that penalty fee is a lot less than the cost of the lesson itself, parents would still prefer to pay the fee and cancel because the monetary consequence is still cheaper than the cost of the lesson.

If parents complain that the no make-up/no refund policy is too strict because there may be an occasional sickness and emergency that justifies the absence, then allow a free make-up only if the student hasn't had a free make-up X many lessons ago.

You shouldn't try to evaluate the reason for the absence to see if it's justified or not because you can't really tell if parents will give you the real reason or a made-up reason anyway. So it's just simpler to give them a free make-up every so often in our policy no matter what the reason is, but no more than that. That helps avoid any unnecessary confrontation with parents about whether the excuse they use is legit or not.

Top
#1459218 - 06/19/10 04:22 AM Re: Do You Have these Conversations with Your Students? [Re: Volusiano]
Elissa Milne Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/11/10
Posts: 1337
Loc: Sydney, NSW, Australia
Airlines don't let you fly on any old flight you happen to turn up for: if you miss your booked flight you forfeit the fare, unless you have paid a premium to have a flexible fare. Maybe the approach is that students can pay a premium rate for unlimited flexibility!!! Airlines work this so that the flexible fare is at LEAST twice as much as the restricted conditions fare, sometimes 4 times as much!! I suspect none of us have students prepared to purchase the premium, unlimited flexibility option!!! I would happily offer it!!

On the other hand, I used to operate a system where students who did not have a regular booked time worked on a pay-as-you go system with a 33% loading (a $30 lesson was $40 when taken at random intervals).
_________________________
Teacher, Composer, Writer, Speaker
Working with Hal Leonard, Alfred, Faber, and Australian Music Examination Board
Music in syllabuses by ABRSM, AMEB, Trinity Guildhall, ANZCA, NZMEB, and more
www.elissamilne.wordpress.com

Top
#1459244 - 06/19/10 08:05 AM Re: Do You Have these Conversations with Your Students? [Re: Elissa Milne]
Ebony and Ivory Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/14/05
Posts: 1179
Loc: Minnesota
Everyone has really good suggestions! I usually take it case by case. For chronic cancelling I tell them "I'll give you a call if something opens up". If it is a family that's been with me awhile and I know it's unusual for them, I will try to give them another lesson. My policy states 48 hour notice.

I have asked for 30 day notice if they're going to quit. I worded it: "out of consideration, please let me know 30 days in advance if you plan to discontinue lessons". Hopefully they will think of it as them being jerks if they don't lol. I don't send them a bill if they bail early, there really isn't anything we can do if they don't offer that consideration.

One time a girl came and told me that her brother was quitting (that day!). So I emailed mom and told her that I would be using Sissy's next lesson fees to cover Johnny's missed lessons. She got mad and quit.
_________________________
It is better to be kind than to be right.

Professional private piano teacher since 1994.

Top
#1459256 - 06/19/10 09:31 AM Re: Do You Have these Conversations with Your Students? [Re: Ebony and Ivory]
Ken Knapp Offline



Registered: 04/18/06
Posts: 2130
Loc: Pennsylvania
Anybody ever consider charging a fee for scheduling make-up lessons? After all, it takes your time to make those arrangements. Maybe a $10-$15 fee if sufficient notice is given, up to full lesson fee for no notice?

Ken
_________________________
Ken

Piano Organ Depot
http://www.pianoorgandepot.com
Hammond Organ Technician


Top
#1459287 - 06/19/10 10:52 AM Re: Do You Have these Conversations with Your Students? [Re: Ken Knapp]
keystring Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/11/07
Posts: 11190
Loc: Canada
The way I understand it, teachers are complaining about frivolous cancellations, possibly last minute, and possibly frequent. I don't think that they would want to discourage a responsible student who has been prevented from attending lessons due to something beyond their control from making up a lesson. If you go two weeks between lessons, errors can get engrained, especially if you are learning new technique. Preventing the error from the start saves a lot of time trying to undo it later on. I cannot see a teacher wanting to discourage students from seeking help in time by throwing in punitive measures. That sends a message that lessons aren't important.

While it is true that some time is taken in rescheduling, teaching is a profession, not a time-punch job. All professions, afaik, involve efforts that are not billed, which is one reason why professionals get paid more per hour then the clerk ringing in your groceries. I would not want to be treated in a way that I do not treat my own customers. I understand that what is being looked at is unreasonableness and thoughtlesness. Am I mistaken?

Top
#1459291 - 06/19/10 11:09 AM Re: Do You Have these Conversations with Your Students? [Re: keystring]
Barb860 Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/11/09
Posts: 1644
Loc: northern California
No, you are not mistaken, Keystring, I think we are talking about unreasonableness and thoughtlessness as you say, along with being inconsiderate.

My opinion is that we as teachers set ourselves up for these problems in the first place by not enforcing our studio policies, if we even have them. There will always be people out there who take advantage. It's up to the professional to set and enforce the standard. Like Ebony and Ivory said, some clients will get mad and quit. I used to actually offer makeup lessons to folks who would no-show me, and sometimes I would even issue them credits towards next month's lessons. Dumb on my part!!!! I thought I was just being nice and extra flexible with clients. Instead, it was a bad way of conducting business and I feel that clients did not respect me.
_________________________
Piano Teacher

Top
#1459293 - 06/19/10 11:14 AM Re: Do You Have these Conversations with Your Students? [Re: wolfetho]
crogersrx Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/25/08
Posts: 712
Loc: San Francisco, CA
Originally Posted By: wolfetho
This year I will tell them that I am reserving their time slot for them, and they will be charged if they don't show up.

Tom


I'd tell them that the time slot will be reserved if they pay for it upfront. However, if they do not, I will not hold it if someone else requests that time slot. They can write and post-date a check. If they show up, great, nothing lost on their part. If they don't show up, great, nothing lost on your part.
_________________________
Cary Rogers, PharmD
San Francisco, CA
1887 Knabe 6'4" (Rebuilt)

Top
#1459294 - 06/19/10 11:15 AM Re: Do You Have these Conversations with Your Students? [Re: Ken Knapp]
John v.d.Brook Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/18/06
Posts: 7200
Loc: Olympia, Washington, USA
Originally Posted By: Ken Knapp
Anybody ever consider charging a fee for scheduling make-up lessons? After all, it takes your time to make those arrangements. Maybe a $10-$15 fee if sufficient notice is given, up to full lesson fee for no notice?

Ken

Ken, my lesson reschedule fee, as published in my Studio Policies, is 'no charge' if more than 48 hrs or more notice is provide, $10 for 24hrs notice, and $50 for an extra lesson. The reason I charge an extra lesson fee is because it's an extra lesson. That the student failed to attend the scheduled lesson is unfortunate, but my resources, both studio and teacher, were available and committed for that student. Now that they are wishing a second lesson, a second hour of studio time, providing it to them at a 65% to 80% discount or even for free, seems rather unreasonable.

With a rescheduled lesson, 48 hrs notice, I have a shot at putting another student in their stead and it seems fair and reasonable not to charge extra, except perhaps a very small reschedule fee (like the airlines do), but when someone calls an hour before, or 10 minutes into the lesson, then the studio sits idle and non-productive.

Most music schools these days are teaching music majors not to consider make-ups, to wipe "make-up" out of their vocabulary.

I understand the mind-set of many students, "But I didn't take a lesson, so why should I pay for one?" But you have engaged the studio and its resources. Your failure to show up and take the lesson doesn't negate your obligation to pay for what you committed to. It most certainly shouldn't become the burden of the studio to capitalize.
_________________________
"Those who dare to teach must never cease to learn." -- Richard Henry Dann
Full-time Private Piano Teacher offering Piano Lessons in Olympia, WA. www.mypianoteacher.com
Certified by the American College of Musicians; member NGPT, MTNA, WSMTA, OMTA

Top
#1459296 - 06/19/10 11:24 AM Re: Do You Have these Conversations with Your Students? [Re: dumdumdiddle]
crogersrx Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/25/08
Posts: 712
Loc: San Francisco, CA
Originally Posted By: dumdumdiddle
If you were to implement a 'no makeup lesson policy', it might help to cut down on parents who try to take advantage of you. But, YOU have to stick to your guns. If parents know when they sign up that you don't offer makeups for any reason, well... they know. If they don't like a teacher with a policy like that they will find someone else, right?


I think the one-on-one nature of the piano lessons makes it seem more like a situation that is flexible. If the teacher maintains consistency with being available at the arranged time, I see no reason why they should offer any free make-up lessons. I wouldn't put up with it if my job just randomely changed my hours. Why should a piano teacher have to put up with their clients randomely changing the schedule. You pay for Monday at 5:30-6:30... show up!
_________________________
Cary Rogers, PharmD
San Francisco, CA
1887 Knabe 6'4" (Rebuilt)

Top
#1459356 - 06/19/10 02:37 PM Re: Do You Have these Conversations with Your Students? [Re: Barb860]
Volusiano Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/01/10
Posts: 770
Even nice parents who are thoughtful and reasonable can still end up taking advantage of a teacher's relaxed policy unwittingly if the teacher allows it. They just think that as long as they're within the bounds of what the teacher's policy allows, they're not doing anything wrong. So it's not so much about trying to deal with only inconsiderate people, but it's much more about thinking up front what's fair for everyone, the teacher included, and come up with a clear policy that reflects this, and communicate it and enforce it.

Top
#1459360 - 06/19/10 02:45 PM Re: Do You Have these Conversations with Your Students? [Re: crogersrx]
Volusiano Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/01/10
Posts: 770
Originally Posted By: crogersrx
I think the one-on-one nature of the piano lessons makes it seem more like a situation that is flexible. If the teacher maintains consistency with being available at the arranged time, I see no reason why they should offer any free make-up lessons. I wouldn't put up with it if my job just randomely changed my hours. Why should a piano teacher have to put up with their clients randomely changing the schedule. You pay for Monday at 5:30-6:30... show up!
I agree, but I'd like to add that even teachers will have unexpected things that come up that may force them to reschedule once in a while, too. If this happens, it goes without saying that a refund or credit or free make-up is in the queue for the teacher missing that lesson. But if the reschedule is not for the teacher being sick or due to an emergency or very legit reason, the teacher should probably offer a complimentary lesson on top of the refund or credit for the missed lesson for the inconvenience of the reschedule. This goes a long way in showing parents that the teacher puts himself/herself on the hook just as much as they do on students/parents.

Top
#1459368 - 06/19/10 03:25 PM Re: Do You Have these Conversations with Your Students? [Re: Volusiano]
crogersrx Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/25/08
Posts: 712
Loc: San Francisco, CA
Volusiano, I agree. There are times that the teacher may have something that comes up, and in those cases, what's good for the goose is good for the gander.

In my case, my teacher was becoming increasingly otherwise occupied. It was always something like a funeral or someone with a hideous calamity, or she was struck blind, or laying paralyzed in bed for three weeks, or asthma, or God knows what. I felt bad leaving her, but I needed a piano teacher not excuses.

Likewise, I would assume that a good teacher would expect me as an adult, to give them the same courtesy as I would my job and prepare and come to the lesson, and pay on time.

I think that people don't really realize that the piano teacher is not doing this as some idle hobby, but to make a living. If I were a teacher, I'd be pretty strict, but would also keep up my end and lead by example. Sure, you don't want to drive people away, but some people need to be driven away.
_________________________
Cary Rogers, PharmD
San Francisco, CA
1887 Knabe 6'4" (Rebuilt)

Top
#1459378 - 06/19/10 04:06 PM Re: Do You Have these Conversations with Your Students? [Re: crogersrx]
wolfetho Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/02/04
Posts: 60
Great points everyone-here's one for you.

I had a student who broke her arm and it was in a cast
for 3 weeks. Then the family went on a trip the fourth week.
So now its 4 weeks that I've held their time slot and haven't been paid.
I understand that the broken arm is not their fault, but at the same time they wanted
to keep their time when they came back.

To make matters worse, they missed 2 lessons the month before and I didn't ask for a make-up because they occured on the 5th week of the month, and they paid me for 4 weeks. So in other words, we would have had 5 lessons and they would have paid me
for one extra lessson had they been in town.

Then the broken arm occurs. So now in effect I've lost payment for 6 weeks. So I explained to the mother that I had reserved their time and was unable to re-book it, so I think I should be paid for at least some of the time. The mother then calls me back and says OK she will pay me for 5 more lessons, and then they will stop for the summer. What she meant was she expected me to give them 5 more lessons(which she paid for), but I still end up being shorted at least 3 weeks
(not including the 3 weeks off for the broken arm).

As a business, how do I be fair to the customer, but at the same time actually make a living? It seems like you really have to be assertive at the risk of sounding too pushy in order to
make a living as a Music teacher.Many times it all comes back to reminding my clients that this is my living, because it seems that they don't take it seriously. In many cases its just entertainment for their kids..

Tom

Tom


Edited by wolfetho (06/19/10 06:41 PM)

Top
#1459417 - 06/19/10 05:27 PM Re: Do You Have these Conversations with Your Students? [Re: wolfetho]
Volusiano Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/01/10
Posts: 770
It would only seem fair that if parents decide to take their kids off for the summer (or even a month's time) that they shouldn't expect the teacher to keep that same time slot reserved for them when they come back. They should understand that they may have to settle for a less desirable time slot when they come back if the original time slot has already been given to someone else. The only time they're guaranteed a time slot is when they've already paid for it.

Top
#1459454 - 06/19/10 06:56 PM Re: Do You Have these Conversations with Your Students? [Re: wolfetho]
Ebony and Ivory Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/14/05
Posts: 1179
Loc: Minnesota
Originally Posted By: wolfetho
I had a student who broke her arm and it was in a cast
for 3 weeks. Then the family went on a trip the fourth week.
So now its 4 weeks that I've held their time slot and haven't been paid.Tom


I don't give my families that option. I encourage them to continue to come even if they are in a cast. The kids do everything else in the cast. There is plenty to do even if they can't play with that particular hand. Other hand drills, theory, composition etc.... Most casts don't cover their fingers anyway.

I let them know that they can take the lessons off if they want to, but they are still expected to pay for it since it is their spot. Often times those casts stay on longer than 3 weeks! It states in my policy that they can miss 2 a semester, so if they wanted to, they could use those 2 spots, but then the other 2 would have been paid.

People are usually pretty understanding when you remind them that you have reserved that lesson time for little Johnny.
_________________________
It is better to be kind than to be right.

Professional private piano teacher since 1994.

Top
#1459458 - 06/19/10 07:21 PM Re: Do You Have these Conversations with Your Students? [Re: Ebony and Ivory]
wolfetho Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/02/04
Posts: 60
I guess I should have been more assertive in that situation.

What would you say if the parent came back and said,
"well this isn't our fault," why should we have to pay
for these lessons?"

the funny thing is-these things always seem to happen
right at the time when they owe you money for the next
month.

Tom

Top
#1459483 - 06/19/10 08:11 PM Re: Do You Have these Conversations with Your Students? [Re: wolfetho]
Ebony and Ivory Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/14/05
Posts: 1179
Loc: Minnesota
Originally Posted By: wolfetho
What would you say if the parent came back and said,
"well this isn't our fault," why should we have to pay
for these lessons?"Tom


I would say "I know it! And it is a huge bummer for her, but we can work around it so she doesn't lose any ground while she's in the cast".
If they got cranky and still insisted, I would say "I am sorry that she is hurt, but it also isn't my fault and I don't think you really want me to give up her spot"
_________________________
It is better to be kind than to be right.

Professional private piano teacher since 1994.

Top
#1459509 - 06/19/10 09:01 PM Re: Do You Have these Conversations with Your Students? [Re: wolfetho]
John v.d.Brook Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/18/06
Posts: 7200
Loc: Olympia, Washington, USA
Originally Posted By: wolfetho
What would you say if the parent came back and said,"well this isn't our fault," why should we have to pay
for these lessons?"

Tom

Tom, two points: First, never let the conversation descend into a blame game. In reality, it is their fault, but this is a no-win argument for you to get into. Most of the time, when a student breaks an arm, finger, whatever, it's because the student broke it through carelessness. Very rarely do they encounter a flying object which just happens to intersect their arm and causes the break.

Second, the proper rejoinder is not to respond to the bait, but rather, to state something like: Mrs. XXX, you contracted for lessons with me at such and such time and location every week. We all expect people to honor their agreements, and of course, I am sure you're the type of individual who will honor your agreements.

A side note to agree with those who basically said you should have students come to lessons, broken bones or not. Practice the other hand, go over theory, have them sight read one hand of a duet. Lot's of activities. You can discuss music history and composers with them as well. You can work with them analyzing music for identifying its structure. Basically, the student should be at the lesson if they are able to get out of bed!
_________________________
"Those who dare to teach must never cease to learn." -- Richard Henry Dann
Full-time Private Piano Teacher offering Piano Lessons in Olympia, WA. www.mypianoteacher.com
Certified by the American College of Musicians; member NGPT, MTNA, WSMTA, OMTA

Top
#1459542 - 06/19/10 10:08 PM Re: Do You Have these Conversations with Your Students? [Re: John v.d.Brook]
Sparkler Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/27/09
Posts: 177
Been reading this thread with interest... it seems this kind of topic comes up a lot. I have some suggestions as to how to avoid this kind of situation altogether, some of which I'm already implementing in my studio and some of which I will be implementing in the fall when my old policy runs out.

Since it's summer now and fall is coming up, I thought I'd just share, for what it's worth.

1) Take one day every quarter and make that "Make up Day". Students may schedule one make up lesson on designated Make up day every quarter. This should keep attendance more serious, as they know they only get one make up each semester.

2) No rescheduling ever, UNLESS I'm the one that has canceled on them. If I had to cancel then I will bend over backwards to accommodate them, OR offer a refund. The only other instance I could think of for a reschedule is if some big horrible tragedy truly happened to the student at the last minute. Then I would offer to reschedule out of human kindness. smile

3) Summer - I do not hold spots unless students sign up for at least 6 lessons in the summer.

Seems to be that by implementing some of these things, I should be able to be nice and firm on my policies and yet still fair and accommodating to a certain degree.

What do you all think?


Edited by Sparkler (06/19/10 10:09 PM)
_________________________
Pianist
Accompanist
Piano Teacher
and best of all...
Mom!

Top
#1459552 - 06/19/10 10:31 PM Re: Do You Have these Conversations with Your Students? [Re: Sparkler]
wolfetho Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/02/04
Posts: 60
Hello Sparkler:

You make some good suggestions. One difference in my situation is
that I'm driving to half of my student's homes. I guess that's all the more reason
that I should be less flexible on make-ups.

One thing I will do this fall is say, 2 make-ups per semester. Anything over this
will have to be arranged either at my house or if I can extend their lesson time while I'm at their home. I'm not going to be making second trips back to their home for a make-up.

I'm just concerned that with my clientele they will just quit, and I can't afford to lose any more students. Things have slowed down considerably this summer.I'm going to have to be very clear right from the start and make sure they understand my policies. What has happened in the past is when I explain the policy in the beginning, many of them say-"what happens when we go on vacation," etc. I've said, I will work with you as long as it doesn't become a regular thing. But with kids and sports in school, I've had to make so many accomodations
that I'm afraid if I wasn't flexible they wouldn't continue.I've got one client who changes her lesson time every month to fit around her after-school sports.

Tom

Top
#1459569 - 06/19/10 11:39 PM Re: Do You Have these Conversations with Your Students? [Re: wolfetho]
John v.d.Brook Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/18/06
Posts: 7200
Loc: Olympia, Washington, USA
Tom,

It's always good to review these subjects here; it's helpful to gain other ideas, especially from experienced teachers who have had to face these economic cycles more than once in their career.

All of us are going through some tough times, and depending on who you listen to, things are going to dramatically improve or dramatically decline. Let's hope it's the former.

Most of our students are school-aged who are tied to a public/private school calendar. When they have breaks, they may take off to visit relatives, make family trips, camp, go to the beech, etc. Some teachers are able to maintain a full enrollment year around, because their clientele is focused strongly on music, and not other activities, relatives live locally, or many other reasons.

Most of us find that we fall into the first camp - the majority of our students are scarce over the summer months. To combat this, I have broken my study year into two parts.

Part I - The School Year. I offer 36 weekly lessons which fall on the weeks students are in school. I download the local school district's academic calender, and that becomes my guide. There is absolutely no sense in trying to teach the week of Thanksgiving, Christmas/New Year's break, or Spring break. Color the students gone! The school system actually has 38 weeks, but I take one of those weeks for attending WPPC, and as noted above, I don't teach the Thanksgiving week. It makes life a whole less complicated. I charge tuition - for the school year. Parents may, and most do, pay it in monthly installments. My monthly billing statement shows the total tuition due and what's been paid to date. Since switching to this, complaints have vanished. Parents get a monthly reminder that they're not paying "by the lesson."

Part II - the Summer Break. This is our big bugaboo. I set aside two days of the week for teaching. Students start coming at 9AM. Generally, somewhere from 1/2 to 2/3rds of my students are coming each week, but the mix is really a scheduling challenge. I also offer a teaser rate, to entice parents to keep students going as much as possible, when they are in town. I view it as better to fill those days as much as possible, even at a substantially lower rate, then to be idle. Parents get a bill every couple of weeks. Never had any problems with parents paying.

Summer is also when a number of new students begin, so you get them going without distractions from other extra curricular activities.

Make-ups. What exactly is a makeup lesson? It's a demand by your clients that you provide two hours for the price of one. Is this really what you want to do? Seriously? Don't do makeups. It's nothing but a nightmare and financial loser for you. The best way is to head this off in the initial interview. We spend time first getting to know the student, playing a bit, etc., then I turn to the parents, and begin by saying that, regretfully, I must put on my businessman hat for a few moments and discuss the business side of taking lessons. I talk about tuition, and then, before parents can even broach the subject of missed lessons, I point out to them that I fully realize that through the year, their student is going to have to miss a lesson or two for various reasons. This is calculated in the overall tuition. If they are on the ball, contact me in advance, they may reschedule the lesson, if a suitable time is available for both them and me. If they forget, it's just one of those things. I don't offer two lessons for the price of one. When you present the issue fairly, but firmly, most parents accept it for what it is; should someone bring up the subject later on, you can remind them that their tuition takes into account that they will probably miss a lesson or two, so if their student makes every lesson, they get a couple of "free" lessons, and if not, they're not losing anything.
_________________________
"Those who dare to teach must never cease to learn." -- Richard Henry Dann
Full-time Private Piano Teacher offering Piano Lessons in Olympia, WA. www.mypianoteacher.com
Certified by the American College of Musicians; member NGPT, MTNA, WSMTA, OMTA

Top
#1459591 - 06/20/10 12:53 AM Re: Do You Have these Conversations with Your Students? [Re: John v.d.Brook]
wolfetho Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/02/04
Posts: 60
John- thanks for the advice. Its comforting to know
that other teachers face the same challenges as I do.
I'm going to go over my policy again with all of my
existing students this fall.

I was actually considering doing what you're saying
and building into the cost of lessons about 4 absences for the year.
It would be so much simpler to do this and not have any make-ups.

Tom

Top
#1459739 - 06/20/10 10:49 AM Re: Do You Have these Conversations with Your Students? [Re: wolfetho]
Ann in Kentucky Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/22/08
Posts: 2643
Loc: Kentucky
Tom,

I had a parent who would decide to take off a month here and a month there. After that I added a new policy: If you take unpaid leave from lessons, there is a re-enrollment fee upon return to lessons. It's approximately equal to one month's tuition.

The one exception to this is, that in summer they are allowed 4 weeks off with no re-enrollment fee to return. This also gives a financial motivation to parents not to take off more than 4 weeks during summer.

My policy is that during unpaid leave from lessons, their lesson time is not reserved for them.
_________________________
piano teacher

"She played upon her music box
a fancy air by chance,
And straightaway all her polka dots
began a lively dance."
-- Peter Newell

Top
#1459812 - 06/20/10 12:54 PM Re: Do You Have these Conversations with Your Students? [Re: Ann in Kentucky]
wolfetho Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/02/04
Posts: 60
Anne:

That's a good idea (re-enrollment fee). Is this working for you?
How do you handle this during the summer if they decide to take
2 weeks here and a week there etc.. Is it cumulative?

Thanks,

Tom

Top
#1459892 - 06/20/10 04:17 PM Re: Do You Have these Conversations with Your Students? [Re: wolfetho]
Ann in Kentucky Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/22/08
Posts: 2643
Loc: Kentucky
Hi Tom,
It is working well. I allow a pay per lesson rate for June and July only...must be paid at first scheduled lesson of the month. So if they pay for 4 lessons over June/July it means they have no re-enrollment fee.

So far I have one student who is taking off one month. The re-enrollment fee has motivated parents to only take off one month--last year he took off June and July. So no one will have to pay the re-enrollment fee.

I only allow the pay per lesson rate for June and July. So any unpaid leave from lessons at other times means they have the re-enrollment fee. It keeps people from taking off in December or other times they might feel like it. This is my first year to have the re-enrollment fee and so far only one person has had to pay it.
_________________________
piano teacher

"She played upon her music box
a fancy air by chance,
And straightaway all her polka dots
began a lively dance."
-- Peter Newell

Top
#1459918 - 06/20/10 05:12 PM Re: Do You Have these Conversations with Your Students? [Re: Ann in Kentucky]
John v.d.Brook Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/18/06
Posts: 7200
Loc: Olympia, Washington, USA
The other perspective that the enrollment fee actually defrays costs which students incur. I don't charge a recital fee, an audition prep fee, etc., etc., and the enrollment fee, which is annual and paid every year, covers these and many more items. Keyboard Explorer is another example. Custom made certificates, prizes, awards, etc., etc.

Just another idea to digest!
_________________________
"Those who dare to teach must never cease to learn." -- Richard Henry Dann
Full-time Private Piano Teacher offering Piano Lessons in Olympia, WA. www.mypianoteacher.com
Certified by the American College of Musicians; member NGPT, MTNA, WSMTA, OMTA

Top
Page 1 of 2 1 2 >

Moderator:  Ken Knapp 
What's Hot!!
HOW TO POST PICTURES on the Piano Forums
-------------------
Sharing is Caring!
About the Buttons
-------------------
Forums Rules & Help
-------------------
ADVERTISE
on Piano World

The world's most popular piano web site.
-------------------
PIANO BOOKS
Interesting books about the piano, pianists, piano history, biographies, memoirs and more!
(125ad) Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
Sheet Music
(PW is an affiliate)
Sheet Music Plus Featured Sale
Download & Print Sheet Music Instantly
sheet music search
sheet music search

sheet music search
(ad) HAILUN Pianos
Hailun Pianos - Click for More
(ad) Lindeblad Piano
Lindeblad Piano Restoration
Who's Online
86 registered (36251, Asmodeus, ando, Alux, 24 invisible), 1388 Guests and 34 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Stats
74264 Members
42 Forums
153620 Topics
2251554 Posts

Max Online: 15252 @ 03/21/10 11:39 PM
New Topics - Multiple Forums
Here is Practical Explanation about Next Life, Purpose of -
by cew0
04/21/14 06:38 AM
Tunelab alternative partial settings?
by Beemer
04/21/14 04:52 AM
Noodling board
by Maarkr
04/20/14 10:20 PM
New Movement Composed "To Rule" 4/20/2014
by hsheck
04/20/14 10:17 PM
Understanding Sharps
by imustlearn
04/20/14 08:18 PM
(ads by Google)

Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers

 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
| Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World | Donate | Link to Us | Classifieds |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter | Press Room |


copyright 1997 - 2014 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission