Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 2 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

SEARCH
the Forums & Piano World

This custom search works much better than the built in one and allows searching older posts.
(ad 125) Sweetwater - Digital Keyboards & Other Gear
Digital Pianos at Sweetwater
(ad) Pearl River
Pearl River Pianos
(ad) Pianoteq
Latest Pianoteq add-on instrument: U4 upright piano
(ad) P B Guide
Acoustic & Digital Piano Guide
PianoSupplies.com (150)
Piano Accessories Music Related Gifts Piano Tuning Equipment Piano Moving Equipment
We now offer Gift Certificates in our online store!
(ad) Estonia Piano
Estonia Piano
Quick Links to Useful Stuff
Our Classified Ads
Find Piano Professionals-

*Piano Dealers - Piano Stores
*Piano Tuners
*Piano Teachers
*Piano Movers
*Piano Restorations
*Piano Manufacturers
*Organs

Quick Links:
*Advertise On Piano World
*Free Piano Newsletter
*Online Piano Recitals
*Piano Recitals Index
*Piano Accessories
* Buying a Piano
*Buying A Acoustic Piano
*Buying a Digital Piano
*Pianos for Sale
*Sell Your Piano
*How Old is My Piano?
*Piano Books
*Piano Art, Pictures, & Posters
*Directory/Site Map
*Contest
*Links
*Virtual Piano
*Music Word Search
*Piano Screen Saver
*Piano Videos
*Virtual Piano Chords
Page 1 of 2 1 2 >
Topic Options
#1459734 - 06/20/10 10:44 AM Your opinion on Kawai CA 93
Cashley Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/16/09
Posts: 530
I have 2 questions :

(1) Soundboard - How does the soundboard play a part in producing the sound ? The sound is either projected via the soundboard OR the speakers, I would have thought.

(2) Double escapement - I read the brochure and it says CA 93 has double escapement features. Has anyone had any hands on experience on this particular feature of CA 93 ?

Top
(ads) Sweetwater / Roland
Yamaha Keyboards for Performance and Composition

Click Here


#1459857 - 06/20/10 03:00 PM Re: Your opinion on Kawai CA 93 [Re: Cashley]
TADutchman Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/26/10
Posts: 760
Loc: Apeldoorn, The Netherlands
(1) You can read all details about how the soundboard works together with the 6-speaker system by downloading the patent in PDF format here:
http://www.google.com/patents/about?id=BqzNAAAAEBAJ&dq=US7678988

(2) Didn't read the brochure you're referring to, but I can say that escapement implementation of the/my CA93 is quite subtle (not too heavy) and can be helpful during pianissimo playing. And there's more going: action is great, as you don't need to depress (or release) keys fully to get a sound, hitting harder but shallow (impact) also works...
_________________________
K A W A I ..... R O L A N D ......... E - M U
C A - 9 3 ......... A X - 7 ...... X B O A R D - 4 9

Top
#1460114 - 06/21/10 12:37 AM Re: Your opinion on Kawai CA 93 [Re: TADutchman]
Cashley Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/16/09
Posts: 530
I'm lost in the maze. There are just too many patents, and I don't know what is the appropriate description for CA93 patent. I missed KawaiJames...:)

As for the double escapement, are you able to do the fast repetition like a grand ?


Edited by Cashley (06/21/10 08:50 AM)

Top
#1460115 - 06/21/10 12:40 AM Re: Your opinion on Kawai CA 93 [Re: Cashley]
Cashley Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/16/09
Posts: 530
I would really like to know the sequence of sound production.

Does the soundboard resonate before the speaker or vice versa ?

And without strings and hammers, what would have caused the soundboard to resonate ?

Top
#1460127 - 06/21/10 01:39 AM Re: Your opinion on Kawai CA 93 [Re: Cashley]
Kawai James Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 9064
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
Cashley, the soundboard and speakers work together in unison.

Low frequency sounds are fed to an actuator attached to the soundboard, which causes it to vibrate, creating sound.

The image below shows the actuator utilised by the GP AnyTimeX system in order to transmit digital audio back onto the piano's acoustic soundboard.



The CA93 soundboard speaker system is based largely on the same principal.

Kind regards,
James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

Top
#1460189 - 06/21/10 08:25 AM Re: Your opinion on Kawai CA 93 [Re: Cashley]
TADutchman Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/26/10
Posts: 760
Loc: Apeldoorn, The Netherlands
Originally Posted By: Cashley
I'm lost in the maze. There are just too many patents, and I don't know what is the appropriate description for CA93 patent. I missed KawaiDon...:)

The appropriate description is Musical Tone Apparatus, Kawai Musical Instruments Mfg. Co., Ltd. (Hamamatsu-shi, JP), Publication date 16 March 2010, U.S. Patent No. 7678988.
And alternatively you can simply find the PDF-file here (in case the other link doesn't work):
http://www.freepatentsonline.com/7678988.html


Originally Posted By: Cashley

As for the double escapement, are you able to do the fast repetition like a grand ?

As I'm not Vladimir Horowitz (for several reasons and because my face is not my passport), my repetition rate is probably not as fast as my CA93's, so I have no limits grin
You'd better test for yourself; arguably this is the best DP action available (at a fair price).
_________________________
K A W A I ..... R O L A N D ......... E - M U
C A - 9 3 ......... A X - 7 ...... X B O A R D - 4 9

Top
#1460193 - 06/21/10 08:39 AM Re: Your opinion on Kawai CA 93 [Re: Kawai James]
Cashley Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/16/09
Posts: 530
Thanks, James.

Does that mean the soundboard is only relevant to the low bass ?

Top
#1460201 - 06/21/10 08:58 AM Re: Your opinion on Kawai CA 93 [Re: Cashley]
TADutchman Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/26/10
Posts: 760
Loc: Apeldoorn, The Netherlands
Figure 6. in sheet 6 of 8 of the abovementioned patent indicates that the soundboard is also relevant for the mid-high bass range: a cross-over frequency of 180Hz is given in case there is an opening/port towards the front of the cabinet (below the keyboard), which is the case with the CA93, as far as I can tell (haven't removed the black cover material).

Actual soundboard and 6-speaker implementation in the new CA93 may vary though, due to evolutionary developments since it's first introduction in the CA91 and then CA111. I'm not sure whether James (who's probably sleeping in Japan as we speak) would be allowed to go into detail here...
_________________________
K A W A I ..... R O L A N D ......... E - M U
C A - 9 3 ......... A X - 7 ...... X B O A R D - 4 9

Top
#1460207 - 06/21/10 09:12 AM Re: Your opinion on Kawai CA 93 [Re: TADutchman]
theJourney Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/22/07
Posts: 3946
Loc: Banned
For a comparison of the CA93 to other similar cabinet style pianos, see this thread:

http://www.pianoworld.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/1415632/1.html

Top
#1462303 - 06/24/10 11:06 AM Re: Your opinion on Kawai CA 93 [Re: theJourney]
wower Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/13/10
Posts: 242
Loc: Calgary
I'll also quickly add some additional thoughts on the CA93s sound board. Thought I do play with headphones some of the time, I greatly perfer playing with the CA93s full speaker system. Everything sounds better. Through headpones - good senn HD595s too - everything still sounds very thin and unnatural. During the day when I can turn up the CA93, I find the speaker sound much more dense and weighty.
_________________________
Bad spellers of the world untie!

Top
#1551734 - 11/05/10 08:21 PM Re: Your opinion on Kawai CA 93 [Re: Cashley]
egallego Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/08/10
Posts: 138
Loc: Spain
After two days with my CA93, the soundboard makes a very good effect but it is not something I really notice when playing. You must be able to play at almost full volume in order to appreciate it. It is however very welcome.

Regarding the letoff simulation, it is a simulation. IMHO it adds a very nice feeling to the keyboard, and it made me lean towards the CA93 in place of the CA63. I'm used to keyboards with letoff and I did really feel the difference.

But that mechanism doesn't seem to influence repetition rate as it is a simulation. For instance, repetition rate in Roland's PHAIII is better than the Kawai. Of course note that PHAIII has some shortcomings to RM3, I prefer RM3 despite PHAIII being superior in repetition rate. (If you wonder, the main reason was wooden keys and that PHAIII was quite "clicky")

Top
#1551762 - 11/05/10 09:25 PM Re: Your opinion on Kawai CA 93 [Re: egallego]
TADutchman Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/26/10
Posts: 760
Loc: Apeldoorn, The Netherlands
Originally Posted By: egallego
After two days with my CA93, the soundboard makes a very good effect but it is not something I really notice when playing. You must be able to play at almost full volume in order to appreciate it. It is however very welcome.

My guess is that you still need to finetune the optimal placement of your CA93; moving it around over let's say a few inches acts like operating a kind of surround sound equalizer: this way you can for instance maximise (or minimise) the effect of the soundboard.
_________________________
K A W A I ..... R O L A N D ......... E - M U
C A - 9 3 ......... A X - 7 ...... X B O A R D - 4 9

Top
#1551888 - 11/06/10 02:47 AM Re: Your opinion on Kawai CA 93 [Re: wower]
theJourney Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/22/07
Posts: 3946
Loc: Banned
Originally Posted By: wower
I'll also quickly add some additional thoughts on the CA93s sound board. Thought I do play with headphones some of the time, I greatly perfer playing with the CA93s full speaker system. Everything sounds better. Through headpones - good senn HD595s too - everything still sounds very thin and unnatural. During the day when I can turn up the CA93, I find the speaker sound much more dense and weighty.


Is this something you noticed already when you were shopping and auditioning instruments or did this become clear only after you had bought the piano and had it at home?

Top
#1551890 - 11/06/10 02:52 AM Re: Your opinion on Kawai CA 93 [Re: egallego]
theJourney Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/22/07
Posts: 3946
Loc: Banned
Originally Posted By: egallego
After two days with my CA93, the soundboard makes a very good effect but it is not something I really notice when playing. You must be able to play at almost full volume in order to appreciate it. It is however very welcome.

This is one reason why I would still be leaning towards a Kawai K3 ATX hybrid piano. When playing without headphones there is no doubt that the soundboard is being used to project the sound of every single string and the sound is 100% that of an acoustic piano with the characteristic Kawai sound and fast, responsive Millenium III action.
Originally Posted By: egallego

Regarding the letoff simulation, it is a simulation. IMHO it adds a very nice feeling to the keyboard, and it made me lean towards the CA93 in place of the CA63. I'm used to keyboards with letoff and I did really feel the difference.

But that mechanism doesn't seem to influence repetition rate as it is a simulation. For instance, repetition rate in Roland's PHAIII is better than the Kawai. Of course note that PHAIII has some shortcomings to RM3, I prefer RM3 despite PHAIII being superior in repetition rate. (If you wonder, the main reason was wooden keys and that PHAIII was quite "clicky")


The relative quietness of the RM3 is a definite plus point.
When you say it is just a simulation, what exactly is it simulating if it doesn't provide for double escapement / faster repetition?

Top
#1551897 - 11/06/10 03:23 AM Re: Your opinion on Kawai CA 93 [Re: theJourney]
TADutchman Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/26/10
Posts: 760
Loc: Apeldoorn, The Netherlands
Originally Posted By: theJourney
Originally Posted By: wower
I'll also quickly add some additional thoughts on the CA93s sound board. Thought I do play with headphones some of the time, I greatly perfer playing with the CA93s full speaker system. Everything sounds better. Through headpones - good senn HD595s too - everything still sounds very thin and unnatural. During the day when I can turn up the CA93, I find the speaker sound much more dense and weighty.


Is this something you noticed already when you were shopping and auditioning instruments or did this become clear only after you had bought the piano and had it at home?

Well, everybody can have its own opinion, but I have developed all those dual layer CA93/CA63 custom presets alternating between my CA93 live and my HD595 headphones, so this must be a relative observation (or defective headphones/cables/wrong high-low amp setting), as there has been a lot of positive feedback: of course I also prefer playing live with the fat sounding soundboard and live acoustics (up to a maximum of just over half volume, as this is already thunderous acoustic grand level), but the sound over these headphones is very good, as far as headphones listening can be 'natural' in case of a piano.

If you need a sound that's even slightly more high-end and you prefer Sennheiser, then go for e.g. the HD650; it has been reported many times that the CA93/CA63 can also handle these kinds of high-impedance headphones very well. whistle
_________________________
K A W A I ..... R O L A N D ......... E - M U
C A - 9 3 ......... A X - 7 ...... X B O A R D - 4 9

Top
#1561313 - 11/20/10 03:40 PM Re: Your opinion on Kawai CA 93 [Re: egallego]
tinybox Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/10/10
Posts: 52
Originally Posted By: egallego

For instance, repetition rate in Roland's PHAIII is better than the Kawai. Of course note that PHAIII has some shortcomings to RM3, I prefer RM3 despite PHAIII being superior in repetition rate.


Could someone please explain this to me. I read in some other thread that the bounce-back of the keys in the RM3 was better than in the PHAIII, if that's the case, shouldn't the RM3 be better for fast repetition of the same key?

Top
#1561410 - 11/20/10 07:17 PM Re: Your opinion on Kawai CA 93 [Re: tinybox]
egallego Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/08/10
Posts: 138
Loc: Spain
Originally Posted By: tinybox
Originally Posted By: egallego

For instance, repetition rate in Roland's PHAIII is better than the Kawai. Of course note that PHAIII has some shortcomings to RM3, I prefer RM3 despite PHAIII being superior in repetition rate.


Could someone please explain this to me. I read in some other thread that the bounce-back of the keys in the RM3 was better than in the PHAIII, if that's the case, shouldn't the RM3 be better for fast repetition of the same key?


For better bounce I mean the sensation of playing tremolos (like in Beethoven pathetique) is better, as I feel that the action on the RM3 "accompanies" more the swingy movement of the wrist. That may be a particularity of my technique.

On the other hand, PHAIII allows you to repeat a note with the key being lower, so this improves repetition rate. I didn't actually measure the return time.

Of course you should play them and find out what action do you like better, both are great!

Top
#1665920 - 04/24/11 06:03 PM Re: Your opinion on Kawai CA 93 [Re: egallego]
rpnfan Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 04/24/11
Posts: 6
Regarding question 1) if the soundboard makes a difference...

I have some experience from shopping for a DP:

Comparing CA93 vs. CA63 Some say they can not hear a difference between both [1]. I can _not_ understand how one can not hear that dramatic difference (which it is for me and my wife). wink The CA93 is much more alive to my ears, with more authority, wile the CA63 sounds in omparsion pretty thin, even somewhat 'tinny' without any considerable bass or fullness like a real piano has shocked

If one looks at the area of the woofers of the CA63 and of the woofers _and_ soundboard of CA93 I can imagine that no real ("loud enough") bass can come from the CA63. A subwoofer would most likely be a big plus. But hearing _tells_ the big difference in real world.

In addition to playing the piano we also tested playing a well known recording (with music and speech) on both the CA63 and CA93 and it took about some seconds only for my wife to say that the comparison is "enough", because the difference turned out to be so dramatic. Before our tests in the shop she opted to think about the CA63 because of the price, but it was a no-brainer when hearing the difference in sound.

IMO most DP have a much to weak speaker system which is heard after playing a few notes. The CA93 is still not a real replacement for a piano IMO, but is _much_ closer then most other DPs we tested. Alone the Avant Grand N-2 we heard a short moment also sounded really full and good, but the price is quite too high for a DP in our opinion. Because of the price we did not take more then a minute to hear the Avant N-2.

TADutchman posted a link to the patent for the soundboard where a plot shows the frequency response drops pretty fast below 50Hz, but at least 50 Hz are fully covered by the soundboard, while the lowest note on a piano is around 27 Hz, so (if this patent also refers to the CA93) the lowest octave can not be accurately reproduced even by the CA93 (except when the digital EQing would push the lowest freuqency at the expense of maximum loudness). I guess that the CA63 drops off below 100 Hz or even higher... When we get the CA93 (we ordered now) I'll measure the frequence response of the piano with a calibrated mic. Very curious to see the results. DP manufacturers should publish a frequence range the pianos offer. This would allow to get a first idea about the capabilities regarding the speaker system.

In conclusion I think a soundboard added speaker system is an idea which can be very interesting for a DP. I have thought about options of a speaker array and a subwoofer to mimic a piano sound -- if I would have to build a DP on my own -- and a speaker array giving the frequency repsonse and spatial direction mimicing a piano / grand is not trivial I'm pretty sure. So as a real piano or grand also uses a soundboard it seems like a natural idea to me to adapt this concept, especially for the low frequency range. I'm interested to see how the technology will evolve in this apsect.


[1] I surely understand when one does not want / can pay the higher price for the CA93, maybe because the DP will be played mostly through headphones. But I wonder how one can play an instrument and not notice the _really_ big difference in sound between CA63 and CA93 smile

BTW, we made a little experiment and found that even through a low quality youtube video (prepared by a dealer from Leeds) you'll notice the difference between the CA63, CA93, a real grand or a real piano when recorded under similar conditions. Can I post a link here to the videos? To hear this for yourself is quite interesting IMO laugh


Edited by rpnfan (04/25/11 10:55 AM)

Top
#1668357 - 04/29/11 02:42 AM Re: Your opinion on Kawai CA 93 [Re: rpnfan]
TADutchman Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/26/10
Posts: 760
Loc: Apeldoorn, The Netherlands
Originally Posted By: rpnfan
Regarding question 1) if the soundboard makes a difference...

I have some experience from shopping for a DP:

Comparing CA93 vs. CA63 Some say they can not hear a difference between both [1]. I can _not_ understand how one can not hear that dramatic difference (which it is for me and my wife). wink The CA93 is much more alive to my ears, with more authority, wile the CA63 sounds in omparsion pretty thin, even somewhat 'tinny' without any considerable bass or fullness like a real piano has shocked

...

[1] I surely understand when one does not want / can pay the higher price for the CA93, maybe because the DP will be played mostly through headphones. But I wonder how one can play an instrument and not notice the _really_ big difference in sound between CA63 and CA93 smile

Well, there is a big difference (not only because of the soundboard, but also because of the 6 speaker arrangement), but in case people keep the volume very low, the perceived difference is probably small in a noisy music store environment, as the sound signature of the samples is the same. grin wink
_________________________
K A W A I ..... R O L A N D ......... E - M U
C A - 9 3 ......... A X - 7 ...... X B O A R D - 4 9

Top
#1668382 - 04/29/11 04:40 AM Re: Your opinion on Kawai CA 93 [Re: TADutchman]
Dave Ferris Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/12/07
Posts: 1731
Loc: Glendale, Ca.
I got a chance to play the 93, 63 and the new CS3 for the first time the other day. These things are pretty cool.

I traded in a '97 Yamaha Gran Touch GT-2 in December to this music store; I still have a credit from that burning a hole in my pocket. I was going to apply the store credit to the Korg Kronos but I'm having second thought as my wife wants to fill the hole in our living room from the departed Yamaha with a plant or something.
She said she does miss having "a piano" of some sort in the house ; even if it means listeneing to me hacking through Chopin Etudes for the millionth time ... laugh

If it were up to me, I'd get a CP1 and some monitors, at least it could pull occasional double duty for gigs, but she's definitely not into the "stage piano on a stand hooked up to studio monitors" look. She saw pics of all three of the Kawais and would be fine with any of them, she liked the CS3 the best.

It was a little hard to tell the difference in sound between the 93 & 63 as they were in different rooms. The 63 I think sounded a little fuller then the CS3 which was right next to it. The wood keys felt better then the faux wood materiel on the CS3 too.

In any case, I think any of these models would sound much better in our living room then the store. They all were on low nap industrial carpeting and up against a brick wall.
The 93 was in a small office with a short 3' stucco wall at the base and the rest of the wall to the ceiling was glass; so less then ideal acoustics for sound.

We have a raised foundation and hardwood floors with a fairly high ceiling and old plaster walls. I used to have my Yamaha S6 in there and it sounded like the voice of God !
The GT-2 sounded very good in there too, even with its somewhat funky, outdated speakers.

I did prefer the sound on all three with my 240s to their speakers systems but again at my house it might be a different story. I did notice on the "Mellow Grand" sound on the 63 up on the high E & Eb, a sharp, harshness in the attack that wasn't there on the 93. Maybe the improved speaker system smoothed things out.

I'll be making another trip on Saturday with my wife to play again and let her see the choices up close. I'd might wait till he gets in the CS6; he said it might be a few weeks.

Overall I'm still on the fence with these things; not sure I wanna spend the money when they're not totally knocking me out--at least the first time.

On one hand, they're a steal compared to what any of the Avant Grands are going for. Also the action and sound are nice enough where you could certainly get to some semi- serious practicing and recording. Maybe I'm not used to the sound but it just didn't have the same immediate response and clarity as my CP5. I they're guess more mellow and maybe better suited for Classical playing. After a month I might prefer them to the Yamaha, who knows...


Edited by Dave Ferris (04/29/11 05:00 AM)
Edit Reason: added thought
_________________________
http://soundcloud.com/dave-ferris

Top
#1668618 - 04/29/11 03:05 PM Re: Your opinion on Kawai CA 93 [Re: TADutchman]
rpnfan Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 04/24/11
Posts: 6
[CA93 vs CA63]
Originally Posted By: TADutchman

Well, there is a big difference (not only because of the soundboard, but also because of the 6 speaker arrangement), but in case people keep the volume very low, the perceived difference is probably small in a noisy music store environment, as the sound signature of the samples is the same. grin wink


Thas an explanation. I agree that at lower volumes the differences get smaller, but still the sound of the 93 is more realistic / fuller IMO at lower levels. For the "main" test we used a setting of half of maximum volume or one step lower. So that was not very loud, but also not really extreme low level :-)

To Dave Ferris: Maybe you also want to test playing a well known recording from a USB stick you bring to the store. That was really enlighting for us. If money is not _that_ much of a concern _and_ the DP should last for the coming years I think the investment to the 93 is worth it. We maybe updating with newer sounds with a small notebook besides the DP, _when_ the improved sounds make a siginificant difference for us. So the keyboard and sound system should already be as good as possible, when that's the plan.

If you own a CP5 why not just put the CP5 to the living room? A nice customized build DP stand and a good set of speakers could be a viable option?


Edited by rpnfan (04/29/11 03:08 PM)

Top
#1668739 - 04/29/11 07:22 PM Re: Your opinion on Kawai CA 93 [Re: Dave Ferris]
Kawai James Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 9064
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
Hello Dave,

Thank you for you post - it's interesting to read your thoughts.

Originally Posted By: Dave Ferris
The wood keys felt better then the faux wood materiel on the CS3 too.


To clarify, the 'RM3 Grand' action on the CA93/CA63 utilises long wooden keys, while the 'RH' action on the CS3 (and other models, such as the CN Series) utilises plastic keys similar to the Roland and Yamaha actions. Both actions feature 'Ivory Touch' (faux ivory) key surfaces though - perhaps this is what you were referring to?

Originally Posted By: Dave Ferris
I'll be making another trip on Saturday with my wife to play again and let her see the choices up close. I'd might wait till he gets in the CS6; he said it might be a few weeks.


Well, if you prefer the sound and action of the CA93/CA63, but your wife prefers the ebony polish CS3, I too would recommend waiting for the CS6. The PDF brochure can be downloaded from the following URL:

http://www.kawai.co.jp/worldwide/support/catalogue.html

Originally Posted By: Dave Ferris
Maybe I'm not used to the sound but it just didn't have the same immediate response and clarity as my CP5. I they're guess more mellow and maybe better suited for Classical playing.


I think there may be an element of truth in that - the CP5 is undoubtedly a gigging board, while the Kawais you have played are intended as home instruments. However, that's not to say that the CP5 cannot be used to play classical, or that the Kawais won't also sound terrific playing modern, or jazz, etc.

Kind regards,
James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

Top
#1668795 - 04/29/11 10:12 PM Re: Your opinion on Kawai CA 93 [Re: Kawai James]
Dave Ferris Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/12/07
Posts: 1731
Loc: Glendale, Ca.
Originally Posted By: Kawai James
Hello Dave,

Thank you for you post - it's interesting to read your thoughts.

Originally Posted By: Dave Ferris
The wood keys felt better then the faux wood materiel on the CS3 too.


To clarify, the 'RM3 Grand' action on the CA93/CA63 utilises long wooden keys, while the 'RH' action on the CS3 (and other models, such as the CN Series) utilises plastic keys similar to the Roland and Yamaha actions. Both actions feature 'Ivory Touch' (faux ivory) key surfaces though - perhaps this is what you were referring to?


Hey James. Yeah sorry that's what I meant to say.. smile blush The 63/93 did feel more solid to me in the action sense then the CS3.

The CS6 is a bit taller then the CS3 so I'm assuming it has a more enhanced speaker system then the CS3, but not quite as elaborate as the CA93 ? Thanks James.

Regarding the sound, I think it's a simple thing of me not being quite used to it like I am the Yamaha. I played some of the similar class (to the 63/93) of Clavinovas today, they were more $$$$ and I didn't care for any of them more then the Kawais. The one they had that I liked best was the CLP380; it was in the polished ebony with the NW action like on my CP5. It was really nice, but asking price was 5K, yikes!

Hi rpnfan. I'm not a believer in listening back to midi or usb when choosing an electronic keyboard; the sound and action have to connect to my style of playing while I'm playing... smile

Regarding the cp5, I think I mentioned early on in my post about my wife wanting more of a "piece of furniture" for the asthetics. She doesn't want the "keyboard on a stand" look in the living room. Which is only fair since I have a 20 X 20 studio that houses all my stuff... smile

I think for you getting the 93 was a good call; especially if you plan on hooking up a laptop with software pianos in the future.
_________________________
http://soundcloud.com/dave-ferris

Top
#1668886 - 04/30/11 04:17 AM Re: Your opinion on Kawai CA 93 [Re: Dave Ferris]
Kawai James Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 9064
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
Originally Posted By: Dave Ferris
The CS6 is a bit taller then the CS3 so I'm assuming it has a more enhanced speaker system then the CS3, but not quite as elaborate as the CA93 ?


Yes, the CS6's speakers are a little larger than those found in the CS3, however the amplifier is considerably more powerful. Actually, the CS6 speaker system is the same as the CA63's, while the CA93's soundboard speaker system is found on the top of the range CS9.

Cheers,
James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

Top
#1669056 - 04/30/11 03:25 PM Re: Your opinion on Kawai CA 93 [Re: Dave Ferris]
rpnfan Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 04/24/11
Posts: 6
Hi Dave,

Originally Posted By: Dave Ferris

I'm not a believer in listening back to midi or usb when choosing an electronic keyboard; the sound and action have to connect to my style of playing while I'm playing... smile

Regarding the cp5, I think I mentioned early on in my post about my wife wanting more of a "piece of furniture" for the asthetics.


I understand and agree that playing the DP is most important, but I still think it's a really great addidtional option to play back some well known recordings, because this will help you to hear if the speaker system is likely to be able to benefit from "finetuning" with the virtual technician or TADutchmans layering ideas or even more when playing back external sound sources.

Regarding the CP5 in the living room. I read your wife's opinion, my idea was if it could be an option to build (or let build) a customized stand which will not look like a standard keyboard stand, but will more look like a furniture where the CP 5 seaminglessly integrates and looks fine smile ? The bigger problem might be to find a good place for the speakers when they should not be visible. If I had more experience with DIY speakers I might have thought about such an option for ourselfs. smile

Top
#1669205 - 04/30/11 08:37 PM Re: Your opinion on Kawai CA 93 [Re: rpnfan]
Dave Ferris Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/12/07
Posts: 1731
Loc: Glendale, Ca.
Well, it's a done deal; I bought the satin black CA93. It will be delivered on Monday or Tuesday.

After playing all three again (93, 63 & CS3 ) , the 93 definitely sounded the least like a "digital keyboard" with its internal speakers. It had a smoother top end and a warmer sound in the middle then the 63 to my ears. Definitely more dough then I wanted to spend but got a great deal from Pierre Julia at "Pierre's Fine Pianos". The credit from Yamaha GT2 helped ease the pain quite a bit.

It will be nice to have a piano, even if it's a digital one, in the house again.
The CA93 looks good and sounds good....
_________________________
http://soundcloud.com/dave-ferris

Top
#1669336 - 05/01/11 04:10 AM Re: Your opinion on Kawai CA 93 [Re: Cashley]
theJourney Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/22/07
Posts: 3946
Loc: Banned
Congratulations! The CA93 is a great instrument.
Please keep us up to date on how you feel down the road that the new Kawai RM3 digital piano keyboard compares to the near acoustic keyboard of your old Yamaha GT2. And, don't forget to update the prices paid thread!

And, since you are Dave Ferris, please, please post some recordings for us.
From guys like you and another Dave posting here, I would enjoy hearing a recording over reading a post if I could choose.

Top
#1669347 - 05/01/11 05:15 AM Re: Your opinion on Kawai CA 93 [Re: Cashley]
Kawai James Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 9064
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
Indeed, congrats Dave!

Cheers,
James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

Top
#1670378 - 05/03/11 01:34 AM Re: Your opinion on Kawai CA 93 [Re: Kawai James]
Dave Ferris Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/12/07
Posts: 1731
Loc: Glendale, Ca.
Thanks James & Journey. Well it came bright and early today at 9 AM sharp.

I spent just under 3 hours strictly on Chopin Etudes and it was quite a workout.
I kept switching between my D in the studio and CA93 in the house every 40 minutes or so to feel the difference; the Kawai action is heavier then my Steinway. My ears are getting more accustomed to the "Kawai sound" then they were at the beginning of the day.

The sound coming from the CA93's internal speakers is disappointing though; it sounds small, maybe futzing with the eq might help.
(And I know what you all are thinking laugh -anything would sound small next to a D ! cry Well I took that into consideration, but I do remember the sound from my older Yamaha GT2 seeming more full; maybe because the speakers were closer to my ears and pointed upward from the dp. )

I don't think it's in the same class, action wise, as my GT2. After Pierre cleaned it up and put in a new sensor board in the Yamaha , it played excellent. Especially for 1995 technology. Actually if I had the chance to buy it back, I would.

Overall the the CA93 is a very good instrument, not in the Avant Grand class of course, but certainly a viable option at a quarter of what the N3 streets for.
So in that sense, it's a bargain. As much as I'd love to have an N3 sitting there, I can't justify spending that kind of big dough on a DP.
_________________________
http://soundcloud.com/dave-ferris

Top
#1670396 - 05/03/11 03:01 AM Re: Your opinion on Kawai CA 93 [Re: Dave Ferris]
TADutchman Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/26/10
Posts: 760
Loc: Apeldoorn, The Netherlands
Congratulations on your CA93 purchase, Dave. cool

Originally Posted By: Dave Ferris
The sound coming from the CA93's internal speakers is disappointing though; it sounds small, maybe futzing with the eq might help.

Please note that the sound is potentially huge, as opposed to small! Therefore, it sounds more like you are underwelmed by the standard factory preset(s) and touch setting, just like many other people (including me). Futzing with the eq only is definitely not sufficient. Hence, you may want to verify optimal placement (besides the soundboard and 'bass port' openings to the front, there are four speakers pointing upward and two speakers to the front) and check out the CA93/CA63 custom presets and reviews in order to find your preferred touch and tone. smile

http://www.pianoworld.com/forum/ubbthrea...tml#Post1448603


Originally Posted By: Dave Ferris
Overall the the CA93 is a very good instrument, not in the Avant Grand class of course, but certainly a viable option at a quarter of what the N3 streets for. So in that sense, it's a bargain.
Agreed, same here. whistle
_________________________
K A W A I ..... R O L A N D ......... E - M U
C A - 9 3 ......... A X - 7 ...... X B O A R D - 4 9

Top
Page 1 of 2 1 2 >

Moderator:  Piano World 
What's Hot!!
HOW TO POST PICTURES on the Piano Forums
-------------------
Sharing is Caring!
About the Buttons
-------------------
Forums Rules & Help
-------------------
ADVERTISE
on Piano World

The world's most popular piano web site.
-------------------
PIANO BOOKS
Interesting books about the piano, pianists, piano history, biographies, memoirs and more!
(ad) HAILUN Pianos
Hailun Pianos - Click for More
Ad (Seiler/Knabe)
Knabe Pianos
Sheet Music
(PW is an affiliate)
Sheet Music Plus Featured Sale
(125ad) Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
(ad) Lindeblad Piano
Lindeblad Piano Restoration
Who's Online
136 registered (ando, AEMontoya, accordeur, 255, 37 invisible), 1450 Guests and 12 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Stats
76006 Members
42 Forums
157160 Topics
2308203 Posts

Max Online: 15252 @ 03/21/10 11:39 PM
New Topics - Multiple Forums
My P155 died. Need a cheaper alternative.
by Lynsey
59 minutes 56 seconds ago
September Piano Bar
by ladypayne
Today at 12:14 PM
Scarlatti Sonata K380 Emaj -- How Difficult?
by ClsscLib
Today at 11:14 AM
High pitched sound from Yamaha Clavinova PF P-100
by Shiverca
Today at 10:43 AM
Rusty strings- a silly question?
by PhilipInChina
Today at 08:59 AM
(ads by Google)

Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers

 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
|
Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World | Donate | Link to Us | Classifieds |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter | Press Room |


copyright 1997 - 2014 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission