Gentlemen i'm thinking about buying that digital piano but I read some comments about problems with clicking key and loss of the Hammer Action.

if you own one of them what can you tell me?

Andy,
I personally like the touch on the Casios. I prefer it over the Yamaha GHS used on P-85, YPG-635, and older P-70. I think that Casio made some improvement in the action on the new PX series 130/330. The action is no longer loud like it was on older Privias where the keys would clack as they return. There have been some complaints about keys sticking and key alignment problems where the keys touch each other producing clicking sounds. However, it is hard to get a handle on how widespread the problem is. I think the PX-130 is the best of the cheaper keyboards in the $500-600 range. I like the touch and the 4 level piano sample.

I recently played the Korg SP-170, but did not like the touch or the sound of the piano. Korg isn't using hammer action on this model. Although it is a weighted action, there does not seem to be a hammer action. The P-85 is the only other contender in this price range and I think the action is light and it only has a single layer piano sample, giving it limited dynamic range. However, despite these limitations, some really like it.

You have to decide for yourself what will meet your needs and fit your budget. It's a good idea to play everything and note what you like vs what you don't like. Bring a good pair of headphones to help evaluate sound. Good luck.

My px-130 has been in my home for about a week and a half now. I really like it for what it is. Its not going to fool you into thinking you are playing on an acoustic by any means, but it really does what it was made to do very well. Now through good headphones this DP sounds VERY good. Like... really really good. I have a decent home stereo setup for it and it sounds close to the headphone quality but not quite. Still very satisfying.

That said, the built in speakers do an admirable job, especially with the brilliance maxed out. I think it sounds pretty good!

The keys arent too loud, but they definitely have that keyboard clunk. You just cant get away from that at this price range. Only one or two keys click only when I hit them hard, but thats really hard and usually I never hear it. All of my keys are evenly spaced as well. Definitely check it out, its a great value.

The Korg SP170 uses a full graded hammer action, it's stated quite clearly in the specs on Korgs website. It's the NH action (Natural Weighted Hammer Action) their more expensive pianos use the RH3 (Real Weighted Hammer Action)

It doesn't feel like a typical hammer action I agree but I really like it and would choose it over a P85 or PX130. That's a matter of taste though.

I have a PX330 and have commented on a few threads about the keyboard. It's great value for money. But really *you* need to go and play the 130 and compare action, sounds, warranty, .....and price. Then buy the 130 :-)

thank you gentlemen, i've been reading a lot and as i said i like the px-130 features but i fear that it wont last long time. is it true that all DP have some clacking in their keys, i mean is it such a big deal? i'm totally ignorant since i'm only about to start to take lessons.

Why do you have worries about its duarbility? And yes theres "clacking" in pretty much all DPs. It is not too bad in the px-130 though. Ive heard worse!

On the topic of the 130... Ive noticed that at low/mid velocities G#, A, and A# (in the middle C octave) have a somewhat harp like sound. I wonder if they used the same (possibly inadequate) sample for all 3 notes and just changed the pitch?? These are the only notes Ive noticed it on, and when full velocity is used it pretty much is unnoticeable and has the same piano tone as the rest of the keys.

The one I briefly played felt like it had some kind of hammer action.

I didn`t understand that, those three keys sound the same? :S

The DPBSD analysis for the PX-330 (which I believe shares the same sample set as the PX-130) revealed the following stretch groups:

3,2,3(x16),4,2,3(x5),4,5,5 = 28 groups

So in octave 4, the notes G#, A, and A# all share the same physical sample. You have a good ear! And you have my sympathy.

No, they share the same sound sample. Say for instance they sampled A. Then to get G# and A# they used the A sample and changed the pitch to get the other 2 notes.



Its late.. what do the (x16, x5)s mean?

This is really surprising... Im actually very disappointed. How hard is it to just record all 88 keys separately?? Why do they need to have stretch groups!!??!?!? I cant imagine it would have been any more work to do it right and sample each note versus going in and pitch bending them all.

*Pats self on back for catching that little group of notes* Guess I should start taking lessons!

Cheap - Fast - Good

Pick two.

Hello OP,
I recently had the same dilema as you. I was between the Casio px130 and the Yamaha p85.
The Casio definitely has more features for the money. There were some sounds on the Casio that I would really have liked on the Yamaha; I really only use the Grand piano sound now.
Also, the Casio has a 3 layer sound, rather than a two layer sound (I think I named this right) meaning it samples the velocity of your key stroke at 3 locations (presumably top, middle, and bottom of the stroke) unlike the Yamaha which only has 2 says (presumably top and bottom).

In my opinion the Casio is a much more "professional" choice, however, I decided to go with the Yamaha for one reason. The Casios at Guitar center(and other music stores) all (even up to px830) become what I descibe as "buck toothed", meaning that aruond middle "C" there is a very noticable gap between the keys. http://www.pianoworld.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/1451242/Re:%20Uneven%20key%20spacing%20on%20my%20C.html#Post1451242
But you must consider some of these models have been on display for a long time, and the new ones probably dnot have this gap. Still, this was the deciding factor for me because if you actually go forcefully and wobble even the new ones' keys left and right, there is noticably more sideways movement on the Casios. This is not a big deal for many people, but I think I have some OCD tendencies a "bucktooth" keybed would drive me nuts.

Before you make your own decision though, you should really consider if you want the 3 sensor action the Casio has. I must admit on ocasion I have pushed a key on the Yamaha and no sound came out. I am not sure, however, if it was my fault or the DP's.
None the less, I am absolutely enjoying my p85 (( and it is much sexier than the casio))!
-xiangjiao

*edit: I think I messed up when describing the sound sensor levels, but bottom line is the casiois more accurate to sense your strokes

I still believe that it was more work for them to sample fewer notes and then do the pitch bending in post processing. Is it really that hard to move the mic a little and hit another key? Im sure theres some reason for this, but its not apparent to me.

Less sample data = lower memory requirement = cheaper product.

James
x

Memory, especially the small amounts needed to hold the sound data, is ridiculously cheap. Like $5 cheap (assuming each key has about 15 Mb worth of data). There is NO way that was a cost limitation.

So do they only have the 28 samples in memory and the processor does the pitch bending? I was thinking they had 88 separate samples in memory and they had done post processing during the design phase to do the pitch bending to get all the samples.

Is this true for the 330 and 830 as well?

I believe so, as all the privias use the same sound technology/processing.

EDIT: Something else Id like to mention about the privias is that since the samples are stretched, the hammer sound effect in the highest octave gets higher and higher pitched as you progress through the octave to the highest note on the piano. How do these things slip by?

so you would tell me not to but that DP? if so, whould i get the Yamaha P85?

They sample the whole thing 100% and then hack away at it until it fits into a pocket calculator. The stretching is done in the DP to keep the stored sample set microscopically small. It's actually not all that difficult to do stretching when the sample is periodic.


Welcome to the flabbergasted club. DP technology is like a decade behind everything else for absolutely no technical reason.

15Mb (Mega bits) per key translates into about 10 seconds of 16 bit stereo sound per key - and you need to divide that up by however many layers the sample set has, so some kind of compression would have to take place to use that little memory per key.

Still, for an 88 key unstretched DP, this would total 165 MB (Mega bytes), which as far as I know is a much larger sample size than any hardware DP ever made. For instance, the largest Nord v5 piano is less than 80 MB, and that's considered gigantically huge by today's terribly dated standards.

This may irritate some die hard Yamaha fans, but personally, I think the P-85 could be improved and still sell for the same price it does. However, Yamaha has been at this a long time and knows how to make buyers dig deeper into their pockets and spend more money for not much more value. The Yamaha name commands respect and is associated with quality. I won't debate that fact. I will just say they could be more competitive but know they can get away with giving less for more money because of the name. Thus the P-85 sells despite having light action and single layer piano sample and really does not offer much for the money. If Casio is able to continue to offer more for less and improve it's product quality it might be able to gain market share. I think Casio has figured this out and is making a move.

Despite all my little qualms with the piano (and really, they are just little things, nothing huge), I absolutely love it. I would say GO BUY IT if this is the price range you are in. I tried a couple yamahas and they sounded good as well. Every DP will have its ups and downs, and both casio and yamaha definitely do. Just pick what YOU like!