Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Digital Pianos - Electronic Pianos - Synths & Keyboards Why is the Roland PHA-III keyboard so THUMPY???

...compared to the PHA-II and to offerings from Kawai and Yamaha?

I don't think it's all to do with the action, it's the way they mount it in their casings, especially the console types. The noise seems to be generated by the cabinet, not the action. If the cabinet was taken apart and the action surrounded by some sort of damping material it would surely lessen the thumpy noise. The PHA III is significantly quieter in the V-Piano.

Is there really such a significant difference in 'thump' between the PHAII and PHAIII?

When play testing the HP-307 a few months ago I didn't feel that the action was thumping too noticeable. The same was also true of the RD-700GX I played afterwards - both instruments were played with headphones.

I assume you have actually played the instruments that utilise either action, rather than simply basing this 'thumping' criticism on postings within this forum, yes?

Cheers,
James
x

I would agree with Kawai James - played without sound, it may sound somewhat "thumpy" but IMO it is not a detriment to the instrument in any material way. In fact, I really don't find it that bad, and the action is nice and solid to me.

James, I'm curious, what's your personal take on the SuperNATURAL piano sound? And did you notice much difference between PHAII and III in terms of expressiveness?

dewster, as noted in my previous post, it's been a few months since I last played the HP-307 (I think I'll have to do another round of visits to the local music stores), however I was certainly very impressed with the instrument as a whole. I found the action to be very playable - even for my relatively weak ('organ-ised') fingers, and the basic piano sound to be very, very expressive.

One point I did notice is that the Piano Designer functionality would automatically revert back to the first piano sound, even when another sound was previously selected. However, I recall that EssBrace confirmed that the Piano Designer adjustments were still applied to the other piano sounds also, so it may just have been a minor glitch in the instrument's software.

I honestly cannot recall noticing a great deal of difference between the PHAII and PHAIII in terms of weight, and both felt equally playable and responsive. I expect the third sensor does make a significant difference for rapid note repetitions, however it's been many years since I was at a level of playing ability where such a feature could be fully exploited.

How about yourself? What were your impressions of the instruments' sound and action? Yes, I know the HP307 performs marvellously well in all the DPBSD tests, however I'm curious to hear your thoughts having actually played the instrument.

Cheers,
James
x

I haven't tried an HP307, but I thought the RD-700GX keys were fairly heavy, and I'm not a huge fan of fake ivory. My wife (the real player) wasn't impressed at all, but she had been previously turned off by the lack of decent church organ sounds. Roland makes a small fake harpsichord and a fake positive organ, I really wish they would include more of those sounds in a "kitchen sink" stage piano.

Did the SN sound strike you as too perfect or synthetic sounding in any way? I fear that there may be some kind of long-term fatigue factor associated with the tiny sample set, but of course I haven't heard it enough yet for my ear to pick up such nuances.

dewster, I wonder what your wife would think of a modern Kawai DP - a CA63 or a CN33 perhaps?



I'm afraid I didn't play with the piano sounds a great deal. I ran through a few piano numbers, then went straight to the EPs and pretty much stayed there until I left.

Yes, for a console digital, the Roland's EPs sounded really terrific - I could easily lose a couple of hours playing those.

Cheers,
James
x

When I use the headphone I feel the SN very natural but when I use the built-in speakers I feel the sound synthetic (particularly at high volume)

Me too I am embarrassed with the noise of the keyboard
It's really annoying when I play at low volume

Thanks for your vote of confidence, James.

Yes, this is based on my side-by-side comparisons. In this case comparing the VPiano and the HP-307 with PHA-III compared to an HP-305 and an LX-10 with PHA-II.

The PHA-III keyboard has a noticeably more pronounced deep thump when playing with headphones or the sound low. It is most pronounced on the HP-307 where it gives the impression of playing on a keyboard mounted on a cardboard box.

The sound of the keys on the PHA-II is more of a higher-pitched, lower volume, clickety-clack while that of the PHA-III is a louder, deeper, hollow resonating sound of thumping. The store personnel have confirmed that they also hear the difference.

For someone who plays at normal piano volumes this will not be an issue. For someone who intends to regularly use the PHA-III as a silent instrument in the same room with others or on a hard wood floor above neighbors, this could be a deal breaker.

theJourney, may I ask if you are considering the purchase of a new PHAIII-equipped Roland DP?

James
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Yes, you may.

You should check out the opening post of the other thread here in this section that I started titled "Going to start shopping for acoustic piano". I do fine my 307 gets tiring to listen to and its quite artifical sounding after an hour.

What's the matter? Cat got your tongue?
Didn't you want to ask me something?

I am indeed seriously considering an HP-307 or an LX-10F.

Yes.

Yes.

Well, they're both terrific instruments (although I have yet to play the 'F' version of the LX-10), so I am sure you will be very happy with either model.

Cheers,
James
x

I was hoping you were going to tell me "not so fast, Kawai is coming out with our new Hyper Supersonic Ultra Realistic Harmonic Imaging Rm4 CA-222 model..."

Back on topic. When I played the HP307 as a test I was aware of the thump, but at the time I found it to be a rather reassuringly solid thump that emphasized the quality and tightness of the keyboard. (I have a rather loose Casio keyboard). This might all be baloney of course. I got the impression the thump was generated by wood hitting wood. I subsequently played other DP's and it was only because of this forum that I factored this thump into one of my selection choices as a negative rather than a positive.

Regarding repetition rate, as I understand it, the difference with the extra sensor for PHA-III is that the key doesn't have to go all the way up before you can play it again.

But the keys bounce back really fast. Really, really fast. With my HP-305 with PHA-II, I have only had a silent note once, with both hands playing the same key (some trickery where you have to cross your arms). I had to be a bit more careful in getting one hand's finger out of the way in due time for the other. But you have to be careful anyway, and I don't really consider it a problem. Resting on the keys isn't good style, that's at least one of the things I got out of the recommendations by Gyorgy Sandor:

http://www.amazon.com/Piano-Playing-Motion-Sound-Expression/dp/0028722809

It'd be interesting to hear if others have different experiences regarding repetitions on PHA-II.

I would take PHA III over any of the Yamaha boards, it allows superb repetition of notes (very important for pieces such as La Campanella or Toccata op.11 D Minor). ALl DP's have that annoying thumping sound, one just has to 'get over it', if you really enjoy playing and the experience you wont care after a while about the thumping sound, I dont think about it and just enjoy playing, the sound is not going to stop no matter what you do to try, the key thing is to position the piano downstairs and not upstairs (big mistake in a shared household), the thumping sound is far more apparent if not on the ground floor - well it is to the people downstairs watching TV lol.